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Origin of Life On Earth: Scientists Unlock Mystery Of Molecular Machine

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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 03:01 AM
Original message
Origin of Life On Earth: Scientists Unlock Mystery Of Molecular Machine
Source: Science Daily

A major mystery about the origins of life has been resolved. According to a study published in the journal Nature, two Université de Montréal scientists have proposed a new theory for how a universal molecular machine, the ribosome, managed to self-assemble as a critical step in the genesis of all life on Earth.

"While the ribosome is a complex structure it features a clear hierarchy that emerged based on basic chemical principles," says Sergey Steinberg, a Université de Montréal biochemistry professor who made his discovery with student Konstantin Bokov. "In the absence of such explanations, some people could imagine unseen forces at work when such complex structures emerge in nature."

What is a ribosome?

The ribosome is an enormous molecule responsible for translating the messages carried in the genetic code of all organisms into the workhorse molecules of the cell – proteins – that carry out all functions, including replicating the genome itself. As the world celebrates the bicentennial anniversary of the Father of Evolution, Charles Darwin, Prof. Steinberg's theory brings the scientific community even deeper into the study of the origins of life.

By examining the molecular self-organizing processes that preceded the living cell, the point where time begins for biologists, Prof. Steinberg goes further than Darwin and the many evolutionary biologists who followed could have imagined

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090219105324.htm
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katusha Donating Member (592 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. adsos, you are a machine!!
thank you for all the science articles you post, you do the work so i don't have to search.

:yourock:
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Ohoooo...those look gooood...!
:9 I can smell 'em from here... :9

And, you are welcome!
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. Awesome articles...thanks..... :o)
K&R
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. Complexity from simplicity...
This is the point where all the creationists and people who believe in "intelligent design" plug their ears and go "LALALALALALALALA!!!!!"

You can take a very simple mechanism, and from that mechanism, you can generate enormous complexity.

For example, take the Mandelbrot set. Start with a few lines of math, and turn the crank with the numbers, and you get







Apparently, with the Ribosome, it's the same principle. Start with a little bit of chemistry, initially fairly simple, turn the crank, and you get tremendous complexity - all the complexity of life.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. These figures are not really complex, they are repetitive.
A computer can make even more elaborate figures, but they do not live.

And this is where I land somewhere near the La-la-la-la crowd, but not in them--rather nearer to the place where most of humanity resides--those who believe in a Creator or Creators--although I may not interpret my human puzzlement at life (and at some other phenomena, such as galaxies, gravity and roundness in large bodies of matter)--the same way.

WHY would the chemicals make the leap into something living? Obviously they did. This scientist makes the pathway clearer. But why? Why does matter gather together? And why does matter create life and eventually consciousness?

I think the answer is a scientific one--but perhaps a science that we don't yet even begin to grasp. We are, after all, tiny critters like ants on a leaf floating in an unimaginably big ocean. Our perspective is very limited, for all our telescopes, microscopes and brains.

I'm not really a La-la-ist. I don't close my ears. I listen to both sides, or rather all sides, because there are plenty of people who believe in God who also respect science and engage in it. But what I hear in the shrill tones of the Creationists--aside from the corpo/fascist manipulation of simple, stupid people who deny the overwhelming evidence for evolution--is the question that scientists avoid because they don't like the question; it makes them squirm: it makes them become too literal and too rational; it makes them like Mr. Spock ("it is not logical"). What gives increasing complexity momentum?

To simple people, and to some prior thinkers who were not simple at all (like St. Augustine, or Thomas More, or their predecessors, the Platonists and Neoplatonists), the answer is a First Cause or Prime Mover: God. And I can understand why they conclude that. But it is not an idle question to begin with. It is THE question--it is the origin of our curiosity.

I think that answer--God--is wrong. But it represents the collective question of most of humanity, historically and today: What gives increasing complexity momentum?

Why are we here? Why did this happen? Aside from all anthropocentric answers, why did it happen? --as opposed to anything else that might have happened, or it not happening?

Scientists like Sergey Steinberg are still merely saying how it happened, not why.

And I don't think you can dismiss this question, as you did--attributing it to know-nothings, to people who don't really want an answer; they are comfortable and often smug with the easy answer they have--God. But I am not smug. I am not a know-nothing. I am not comfortable. I don't believe the answer is God. But I still have the question.

What gives increasing complexity momentum? --specifically in biological evolution, but also in the evolution of the universe, of the stars, of galaxies, and other phenomenon?

This is not a simple either/or question. Either you settle for the how of science, as opposed to the why of complexity, or you just answer "God" and never the twain shall meet. I think it is a question that will ultimately be answered by some evolution of scientific method and understanding. Why do I think this? Because so many people have asked the question, and have come up with such a wild complexity of answers, over the millennia, in every human culture. It is an innate puzzlement of the human brain, on a massive scale--billions of people, past and present. The question itself has momentum. So it will be answered some day. Maybe the answer will be that we are God. Perhaps if the promises of science come true, we will some day live forever, travel the stars, and induce life from chemicals and seed it everywhere. Or perhaps we will learn of a connection between our brains and past and future complexities that is "outside" of time. We are creating the leap of complexity, behind us and ahead of us. This persistent, pervasive question is leading us somewhere, but it is the most difficult scientific question of all, so it is taking a long time to get to the answer, through many a complex byway.

Ants on a leaf in a very big ocean. Can our minds grasp all of how we got here? And all of where we came from? It is a staggering question for our tiny ant brains with such a limited view of things, not to mention our perilous circumstances. Yet we ask it.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Well said Peace Patriot
And very similar to my personal mix of views on the subject. Even at my most indoctrinated, and I was a pretty serious fundy for a time, I always had room for God and Evolition in my mind. I would have thought creation pointless if it was made to be static. How would humanity even obtain salvation if it couldn't evolve if we were all apparently "born in sin" thanks to Adam and Eve. Wouldn't evolution of the spirit at least be necessary to regain our grace?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. The question of why there is something rather than nothing is not a scientific question.
And there IS no increasing momentum toward complexity, period. Simple statistics shows that this notion is an illusion. At the simplest levels, there is no other direction for variation. (Google "drunkard's walk" for a more detailed explanation.)

But what about when you get away from the bare minimum necessary for life to exist at all? You can easily check the fossil record for bias toward complexity. After all, tapeworms evolved from more complex ancestors by simplification. Take any fossil critter. Check the fossil records of its descendents and measure their complexity by a number of well known techniques. If there is a bias toward complexity, the markers will be skewed in that direction. Of all the examples checked so far, there is no bias toward complexity--descendents are equally likely to be simpler as more complex.

Check Stephen Jay Gould's Full Househttp://www.motherjones.com/politics/1997/01/stephen-jay-gould
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I'm familiar with S J Gould's initial book, an amazing work, though I haven't read
Edited on Mon Mar-02-09 02:03 PM by Peace Patriot
the Mother Jones piece yet, nor more recent works. I think I do understand his thesis, for which there is compelling evidence--that the series of events that led from simple cellular life to the animals and to us was controlled by random chance, and that those who start with a God thesis--evolution somehow being directed to, or having an inclination to, produce us--blind themselves to the evidence. It is an anti-anthropocentric thesis, and like an icy shower to copulating dogs, is a jolt to the momentum of our egos. A necessary jolt. Rather like my tiny ants on a leaf surrounded by a gigantic ocean. We have difficulty grasping the full meaning of time, chance and big numbers. The universe is truly unimaginably big; and the variation of life on earth, and the time spans involved, are by themselves--just in this tiny spot in the great cosmos, on this little leaf we inhabit--impossible for our tiny ant brains to fully comprehend. We can write the numbers down and contemplate them; we can't really grasp them.

I was really into Goddess images when I read his book, long ago, and came away with an image--not his, my own--of Mother Nature strewing a truly overwhelming abundance of life forms, staggering in its variety, into her primeval soup cauldron, and, due to this chance and that, only a few survived, and we evolved from those. Her strategy is abundance. And--not unimportant to me at the time (and still)--our inability to fully comprehend the numbers involved in producing life itself, and complex life forms, has led to our suicidal practices of monoculture and destruction of highly complex ecosystems. We don't understand that it takes thousands of species, from bacteria and fungi to fish, birds, bears and lions, evolved together in a web of life, to produce the trees we take for our houses. We cannot reproduce that abundance (not yet anyway). When we destroy it for one product--wood--it is gone. Logging is not "sustainable," as the logging corporations allege. They can continue to grow trees for a while, in the increasingly desertified ecosystem they are creating, but it is inferior wood, subject to disease, and eventually the ecosystem will die. Throughout the history of human civilization, we have done this--destroyed vastly complex ecosystems, generally forests--but we don't tend to notice or absorb the lesson, because of the time spans involved. How did Greece, northern Africa, the Middle East, and large swaths of China get to be the way they are--deserts? They were once lush and green. We did that, with our agricultural practices--by not understanding the basic principles of Nature: variation and abundance. They are the fundamental principles of evolution over time, and of current, existing, evolved ecosystems. Some indigenous farmers--say, in Peru--understand this. 'Higher' civilizations do not. (And I really mean those inverted commas! We're not 'higher'--we're killing the planet.)

To put it another way, patriarchal (male) habits of thinking and organization hunt for meat and throw a slab of meat on the fire, and gnaw on it for dinner, and consider this nutrition. Matriarchal (female) habits of thinking boil a cauldron and throw everything available into it--vegetables, tubers, herbs, spices, bits of fat and meat, beans, seeds, nuts, flowers, eggs, milk, water and whatnot--including all the complex substances that our complex bodies need for proper nutrition and best health, and our bodies eliminate what they don't need. The abundance principle (everything we might need) vs the mere sustenance (full belly is all we need) principle.

Anyway, that's how I came to be an environmentalist. But S J Gould never addressed the question of why chemicals bother interacting and creating life, nor why the matter in the universe is organized into complex, whirling galaxies, with unimaginably vast, apparently empty reaches of space between these complex structures, rather than a whole lot of random bits of rocks and matter more or less evenly scattered over the same space (not his field--but it's a related question). What gives the simple parts the momentum to create the complex parts?

And, no, it is NOT an unscientific question of being vs. nothingness (and I would argue with you about that, by itself). It is a question of the organization of what is. Why is what is not randomly scattered about, but rather in motion toward the highly organized?

You know, perhaps the answer to chemicals evolving into living matter is gravity--that mysterious thing--at the quark level. But I still don't think that would answer the question entirely. Why did what seems to be a randomly sparked universe develop gravity? If space is infinite, why didn't every little particle just blow away? What gave the earliest particles momentum to gather together, as they exploded outward (if the Big Bang theory is correct, at least for this universe--the apparent one)? And, similarly, at the microcosmic level, here on earth, why didn't Mother Nature's cauldron just result in an undifferentiated mush? Why are there carrots, and tomatoes and bits of meat in it? Even if you grant random chance of abundance and variety as the principle of evolution, you don't explain why chemicals end up being a carrot or a bison. You can explain that what is, is what survives. But you don't explain why what is, is. What made that happen? Why are there carrots, bisons, human beings and galaxies, rather than a random abundance of chemicals?

I am sure that I am, myself, right now, not understanding numbers--the vast numbers of random chemicals that are still blowing thither and yon throughout the universe. And maybe random chance ultimately explains it all--that, with that much space, and that many chemical components, and that much time, there are bound to be some bits of higher (more complex) organization. That is a possibility, but I'm not convinced of it. My brain seeks order, organization and 'first causes,' and my brain is a product of that vast soup of chemicals that somehow thought up gravity.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Gould's whole point is that there IS no motion toward the highly organized
This is a testable hypothesis, and starting at any point in the fossil record, there is as much motion toward simplification as there is toward complexity among later generations.

That simple established fact, however, doesn't mean that complex creatures can't have purposes. I have lots of them myself, and could care less whether the rest of the universe agrees with me. As far as I'm concerned, I am the center of the universe, but make no claims at all about being the ONLY center of the universe.

Vertebrate nervous systems aren't the only systems complex enough to have spirit as an emergent property thereof--how about ecosystems? Why not?
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. Wouldn't tax free science churches that built charter schools
Schools dedicated to science, math, logic, and engineering be cool? Why is it that the religious are the only ones that can do it?
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Because they are willing to pay for them
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. I still wish a science group would persue tax exempt status
Furthermore, I would absolutely love it if they built a charter school to boot. Why are biblical studies the only valid tax free option?
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Baikonour Donating Member (979 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. Interesting read. Let's see how long until the fundies attack this theory. n/t
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
10. That last line kind of annoys me.
I know, I know, I'm being picky, but this sort of thing isn't within the purview of evolution. Evolution is mum about how life got started - it's just the way of explaining what happens once the gears are running.
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Stevenmarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. Why does Prof. Steinberg hate Jesus
Sorry I had to....LOL
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. The RNA World hypothesis has been around for a long time
The self assembly algorithm is new, but it has been known for years that the actual catalytic areas of the ribosome are RNA only. A brief summary--

Before there was DNA and protein, there was RNA and other nucleotides, which did both catalysis and information storage. Some of the nucleotides then recruited amino acids to improve catalysis; most vitamin co-factors are nucleic acids left over from that time. The most critical catalyst was the ribosome, which was able to make strands of amino acids. (Secondarily, metal ions are weakly catalytic, and they also recruited help from amino acids.) RNA is less stable than DNA, and when the more stable DNA appeared, it took over the function of information storage and cooperated with the ribosome to make protein. Get enough of all this going on in a protective lipid bilayer, and proteins can eventually make control of what is inside and what is outside a lot easier.
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. ...as was foretold in The Scriptures!
:sarcasm: of course...
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Holly_Hobby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. I LOVE your posts! n/t
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. Science marches on....
And, as history has proven, those who deny or ignore it do not fare well in history.

Thanks for the post.

K&R
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. That's pretty stunning work
I wish the article went into more detail. I wish I could afford a subscription to Nature. :cry:
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