Valkyrie. A very scary trip into the world of government taken over by militarism.

[bertman]

Regardless of what you think of Tom Cruise, go see this movie. It has so many parallels to what is happening in Amerika now that it is very frightening.

I don't know if it's precisely true to historical fact but it is well worth seeing for a look into the world we could be in for if our government does not change course soon.

P.S. I have absolutely no connection of any type to the movie or anyone connected with it.

[ColbertWatcher]

1. There are better movies about Nazism. Don't support the cult. n/t

[bertman]

3. Maybe there are better movies about Nazism, but are Americans likely to go rent them?

I doubt it. This one is in the theaters now and could drive a bit of reality into the heads of some who would not otherwise get it.

I'm not a big Cruise fan, but I thought he played the German military officer to a T. Reminded me of most of the German men I have met.

[ColbertWatcher]

25. "are Americans likely to go rent them?"

You mean like Jodie Foster's movie about Leni Riefenstahl?

Christina Ricci's remake of the Sofie Scholl movie?

Like those?

People would go see those.

[bertman]

26. You miss my point. The only reason millions of Americans will have to even consider

the nature of the Nazi military-industrial regime will be the availability of a "blockbuster" CURRENTLY playing at theaters across the nation. So, let's get them to see a movie NOW that shows what the Nazis were like and how many similarities there are with what is happening in the U.S. today.

Somehow, I think that is more likely to attract viewers than us extolling the virtues of the two films you mention; although, they are certainly worth viewing.

[ColbertWatcher]

28. The problem with the cult is that they have systematically tried to co-opt the Holocaust.

Do not fund their little enterprise.

If you're in the cult and don't know any better, fine, throw your money away.

However, if you are not in the cult, you have no reason to give them money.

[bertman]

29. Excuse my naivete, but what do you mean "co-opt the Holocaust"? I'm not in the cult.

By the way, which cult are you in?

FYI, I give money to moviemakers because I like their movies, not because they are cultists.

[ColbertWatcher]

33. The cult believes that psychiatry caused all the problems in the world.

And they even have a "museum" (kinda like the Creationism Museum) where they say that psychiatry was behind the Holocaust.

They also try to equate their alleged suffering to what the Jews have gone through.

To answer your question: what cult am I in? I do not formally belong to a cult, but I may be contributing to one without my knowledge.

[bertman]

37. In the movie, the only reference to the Holocaust that I remember was when the colonel

was writing in his journal of his anger at how Germans were perpetrating despicable acts against civilians and Jews. Any other reference was so subtle that it escaped my notice.

I don't know anything about the Holocaust being a direct result of psychiatry, but it is a fact that the Nazis did extensive research and were adept at manipulation of the thoughts and actions of individuals and populations, which in some way certainly relates to psychiatry, or psychology. They are known to have conducted horrific experimentation on concentration camp prisoners that tied in to their desires to find out what humans could take in the way of mental and physical abuse. FWIW many of the top Nazi scientists/medical experimenters were captured by the Allies and "debriefed" about their "studies". Many were also melded into the U.S. and British intelligence apparati, and presumably the Soviets' as well. Of course, we know about prominent former Nazi scientists like Werner Von Braun, but our utilization of the other "mental assets" of the Nazi regime has largely escaped public notice.

[ColbertWatcher]

39. Just so you know, the cult is misinformed.

They are a cult.

They do not have any facts or history to back up their claims.

Like all propagandists, the cult will twist things to make their positions reasonable, even plausible.

A review of all the facts, however, shows their claims are the furthest from the truth by any honest measure.

And any person who argues in favor of "giving their ideas a chance" should be viewed with suspicion as either a member of the cult or intellectually stunted.

[rch35]

40. "the cult" is no more ridiculous than any other organized religion, it is just more obvious about it

by your logic you should boycott movies with any religious members whatsoever.

[ColbertWatcher]

41. No, that's by YOUR logic. n/t

[anonymous171]

8. At least boycotting is more effective than masked protesting

[Dogmudgeon]

2. But we HAVE to hate the movie! We just HAVE to!

Our great struggle against Scientology and the Space Cooties depends on it!

And besides, Criuse is G-double-A-Y!

--p!

[MannyGoldstein]

4. The Real/Whole Story Is Even More Instructive

I recommend the book "To The Bitter End", by Hans Gisevius. Gisevius was a high-ranking Nazi early on because he was anti-Communist, but became disgusted with the Nazis disrespect for the law. He ended up participating in the plot to kill Hitler, and was a key witness in sending Goering to death row at the Nuremberg Trials. The book details, very dispassionately, almost day by day, how Germany plunged into madness.

http://blueworksbetter.com/ToTheBitterEnd (a writeup of the book on my blog)

[lostnotforgotten]

5. Sinclair Lewis - It Can't Happen Here - Online Book Link Below

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301001h.html

[bertman]

18. Thanks, Manny and lost not, for the links.

[pretzel4gore]

7. yes. Even Shirer covers the plot ok in 'blahbla... the 3rd reich'

What is extraordinary about the july 44 plot as it was called was the way these tough, brutal men who suddenly confronted the evil of hitler nazism, themselves became like a hapless peasant resisting steel with rocks. One guy couldn't even commit suicide right, and lived to suffer hitler's revenge. And the entire plot seemed to have failed when a junior officer of the Berlin garrison suspected something was up and called goebbels (though sweating plotters were claiming to him the voice on telephone wasn't goebbels!) i aint saw this movie yet, but expect it will downplay the way fighting true evil always seems to cause people to become weak, or whatever it is. Even Rommel seemed to become airy-fairy during the critical hours when ruthlessness might have made a difference!

[bertman]

19. I thought they did well in portraying the vacillation of key conspirators. They were

scared as hell of being caught or the plot going awry. With good reason, of course.

[Cleita]

45. They actually made some major bumbles. Otherwise it could have worked.

Perhaps it was cold feet or fear that caused the errors in judgement.

[pretzel4gore]

47. i recall Shirer mentioned karma

regards the July44 plot. That is, to say, the crimes committed by nazism were so terrible a neat wrap up of the war etc via an arranged surrender in 1944 and without the chaotic horrors that actually occurred, which a succesful plot might have prevented, would have allowed Germany to escape suffering, which would have made the nazi crimes even greater in historical terms. Only in connection to the monstrosity of bushism has the july44 plot any instruction, i think....anyway, the USSR loomed behind the theory that killing hitler and surrendering to allied west was a good idea ...few Germans weren't utterly horrified by the multi million man Soviet Red Army filling the horizon from east to west and moving in dozens of mile-wide columns over 100 miles long, towards them

[Captain Hilts]

6. Don't forget, the military didn't want to invade Iraq and opposed Gitmo and Abu Grahib.

Don't blame what's wrong with this country on the military.

[atreides1]

9. That Was in 2003

The generals curently in command have a totally different mindset then say General Shinseki and those that were "retired".

Petraeus and his generals relish the way things are now, because they've padded their resumes with this current conflict, and I really think that they would prefer things remain the same.

[Hippo_Tron]

23. And Shinseki's replacement was chosen by civiliians

Remember that Bush and his cronies never served a day in uniform. Just because they found people in the military to do their bidding, doesn't mean that the military is responsible for the situation. Petraeus is merely a pawn of Bush and co. If it were the other way around, Bush and Cheney would be taking orders from Petraeus.

[bertman]

17. You're right, MookieWilson, that some of the command staff like Shinseki did not want

to got to war in Iraq, but there were and still are enough general staff officers who are virulently anti-islamic and pro-U.S. intervention to be a serious problem.

President Obama will have his hands full. Our nation's military is used to being top dog and especially so when you're talking about the covert stuff. They will not cede control easily.

[Hanse]

10. You mean it's not just a vehicle for a washed up actor desperately trying to stay relevant?

Yeah, right.

[MADem]

11. Not only no, but hell no. Not a dime to that Cruise nitwit. He's crazy and his cult is dangerous.

They shielded Mark Foley, remember?

Want to learn about the plot to kill Hitler? Watch the film of the same name: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100376/

Tom Cruise is a creep, and it's a shame that he managed to con his way into portraying a genuine hero who put principle before personal ambition.

[springhill]

13. What in the hell is wrong with you?

He has led an exemplary life, and the fact that you don't like him does not make him a creep, or anything of the kind. You need some therapy for that hate of yours. Why don't you save it for someone who really deserves it.

[MiniMe]

22. You are talking about somebody who basically told Brooke Shields to

"get over it" when she had post partum depression. Not that I am a Brooke Shields fan, but he did it on national TV. He basically told everybody who is suffering from depression



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/24/AR2005062401866.html

"Psychiatry is a pseudoscience," he told host Matt Lauer, later saying: "You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do."

Cruise looked like a man possessed -- or at least in need of an Ativan -- leaning insistently forward in his chair, hammering Lauer when the host suggested that some people were actually, you know, helped when doctors prescribed psychiatric drugs. Lauer sparred with Cruise specifically over whether it made sense for Brooke Shields to have sought therapy and taken antidepressants for postpartum depression -- a decision that Cruise had previously criticized.

Forget medical research: "There is no such thing as a chemical imbalance in a body," said Cruise, who prescribed vitamins and exercise for depression. "The thing that I'm saying about Brooke is that there's misinformation, okay? And she doesn't understand the history of psychiatry. She -- she doesn't understand, in the same way that you don't understand it, Matt."

This is the second time in recent weeks that Cruise has made an issue of the mental state of Shields, who previously termed "irresponsible and dangerous" his comments about her medical treatment for depression.

[WeDidIt]

32. Big fucking deal

IF I boycotted every movie that had an asshole starring in it, I'd never see ANY movies.

[MiniMe]

36. Well Happy New Year to you too

I was responding to this statement: "He has led an exemplary life, and the fact that you don't like him does not make him a creep, or anything of the kind. You need some therapy for that hate of yours. Why don't you save it for someone who really deserves it."

I never made any statements about seeing his movies. That is entirely up to you. I see that you agree that he is an asshole, so you agree with my post. Thanks for playing.

[MADem]

46. No he hasn't. He's a cretinous liar who has led an inauthentic life and who uses people.

He's a fucking creep who insults others in the name of that crazed cult he calls a religion.

What's wrong with YOU? You are the one who needs the therapy you suggest for others, dear--but your hero, Tom, wouldn't allow you to get it, because, you see, he considers psychiatrists evil. IF you knew anything about him, instead of worshipping a "movie star," quite mindlessly, aparently, you'd know that he's a fucking nutcase on the subject, who would probably benefit from psychiatric intervention.

Why don't you do a little homework before you shoot off your mouth? Make that your New Year's Resolution, eh?

And watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc_wjp262RY

:eyes:

[K Gardner]

16. Maybe the people who made the movie don't harbor such irrational animosity toward people

they don't even know. Sheesh.

[MADem]

44. Are you "just being glib?" It's not irrational. The guy is an asshole.

Don't believe your own lying eyes--I could really care one way or another. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc_wjp262RY

[WeDidIt]

31. I learned long ago, one must separate the art from the artist

All good artists are assholes, or else they wouldn't be good artists.

If I boycotted every movie that had an asshole starring in it, I'd see no movies whatsoever.

Sorry, but Charlton HEston was an asshole, but Ben Hur was a supurb movie. MEl Gibson is a major league asshole, but Signs rocks. So did PAtriot and Braveheart.

[MADem]

43. I don't think that asshole is a very good artist, actually.

I think he's a one note wonder, a tired old fool trying for some new schtick to present himself in a new light.

It's the same old crap in a different wrapper. I'll pass.

I thought Charlton Heston overacted horribly. Horribly!!!! He never understood that "less is more" and he had to have a "close ups" clause in his contracts, either that or every director lost their freaking mind when he appeared in one of their pictures.

Mel Gibson's best work? "The Year of Living Dangerously." IMO. A superb film that no one saw.

[99th_Monkey]

12. I watched it online for free, so Cruise didn't get a nickel. I thought it was informative.

http://www.watch-movies.ro/index.php?m=movie&g=valkyrie_(2008)

[K Gardner]

14. I thoroughly enjoyed it - will read more about the true story at link provided above !

[chrisa]

15. Despite his UFO worshipping...

I think Tom Cruise is a good actor. He's a little nuts, but oh well.

And if people want to join UFO cults or give their money to a Ponzi scheme, oh well. A fool and his money are soon parted.

[dsc]

20. It is a fantastic film

I am a huge fan of the director Bryan Singer, and find Cruise a good actor despite being a nut. I wonder if the LT who got shot in the back at the end was gay and in love with the colonel. It sure seemed that was the vibe they were sending.

[K Gardner]

21. I took that as being the Lts. way of showing utter loyalty. Remember at the first, when he

interviewed for the job, the one question he was asked was if he would do/risk absolutely anything, because he would be involved in high treason. That was my take on it, anyway.

[dsc]

24. fair enough

evidently it is the way the guy did it in real life.

[Cleita]

27. Soooo...for seven years now, DUers have been told to shut up about

the parallels between the Bush regime and the Nazis. "There are no internment camps, or jackboots in the street," they said. Never call them Nazis, just the nicer word fascist or even nicer neo-cons. I hope people wake up at last and if this movie is the cataclyst for that, it's about time.

[chrisa]

42. I agree that...

There are many parallels from the Bush Administration to the Nazis. Or should I say, similarities.

[Steerpike_Denver]

30. I haven't seen the movie

So I can't comment on its merits, but the reviews I've read have not been kind to the accuracy of the storyline, or to Cruise's portrayal. If you are interested in a more accurate account of the German resistance, read "Saints and Villains", by Denise Giardina. It is a novel about Deitrich Bonhoffer, the famous German theologian, who left his homeland when the Nazis rose to power, and preached about the evils of Nazism--even helping to found a splinter sect of the Lutheran church to combat it. Eventually he returned to Germany, and even joined the intelligence service, so that he could take advantage of an insider's knowledge and opportunites to kill Hitler. He was never successful, of course, and was not part of the "Valkyrie" plot--he was already in jail by that time. He knew the risks he was taking by returning, and was willing to take the chance of being killed for his activities, which he was, as the Allies were closing in on Berlin. It is somewhat fictionalized, but quite accurate about the details of this brave man's life and times.

[lynne]

34. History Buffs, check out The History Channel's program on Valkyrie -

- I prefer my history straight up. Link to History Channel program info > http://www.history.com/genericContent.do?id=61062

[earth mom]

35. Thanks for the info. I can't wait to see the film but will have to wait for the DVD.

It's great that Tom is a film that may wake people up to the evils that we are now facing. :thumbsup:

I also want to say that I believe wholeheartedly that Tom is entitled to his opinion on Psychiatry. I agree with him to a certain extent of the evils of the pharma industry. If nothing else, people should know that they have other options and that in the United States, the medical & pharmaceutical industries exist first and foremost FOR PROFIT. Not for the health and well being of people.

Which is why the knee jerk reaction that a pill is gonna "cure" everything is bullshit.

[Liberal In Texas]

38. Haven't seen it. BUT, Cruise, despite all his personal shortcommings

is a pretty good actor. He seems to take direction well (Eyes Wide Shut) and is pretty believable (Top Gun)and has a pretty wide range in roles including Interview with the Vampire, Minority Report, Vanilla Sky, The Firm, and the Mission: Impossible franchise.

He may be a goofy guy as a person, but he can act well.

I look forward to seen the latest, Valkyrie when it comes out on DVD. (Because we don't do theaters anymore.)