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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 01:55 PM
Original message
Don't believe the "official" story? You may be mentally ill...


http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=6443988">What's Behind Internet Conspiracy Empires?


As Conspiracy Communities Grow, Mental Health Docs Are Left With Big Questions



-snip-

According to MacDonald, most delusions begin with general, unexplained feelings of discontent that are caused by a problem with the brain. It's only when someone tries to search for an explanation for their feelings that a delusion forms.

"Then over time, the delusions become crystallized -- meaning they take on particular narratives, story lines and people's motives begin to be fleshed out," said MacDonald. "When one thing isn't explained, it's never abandoned. The plot just thickens ... and you credit your persecutor with a tremendous amount of power."

MacDonald said it can make it difficult to do talk therapy when delusional people feed their story from outside sources or find evidence with other conspiracy plots.

"You're sitting across from your therapist and they say, 'Well why would they do all of this?' And you've got the answers because you've studied online," he said.

-snip-



An extremely disturbing article from a supposedly "reputable" source (I know, I know...).

From a post on another forum that discusses current events (which I won't link to because it's populated by those nutty conspiracy theorists - but if you'd like a link to the 12-page (so far) discussion of this ABC News article, PM me.):


Edited by me for clarity...

From dictionary.com:

con-spir-a-cy

1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

When the US government tells us that 19 Saudi Arabian men, controlled by Osama bin laden in Afghanistan, committed and act of terror on the U.S., it's treated by the mainstream media as conspiracy FACT.

When someone suggests that the US government had foreknowledge of the event, then it's "conspiracy theory" and now, ABC tells us, such thinking is a sign of mental illness.

Put another way, if someone suggests Muslims plan something terrible, it's a conspiracy FACT.

If someone suggests the US government plans some nefarious act, it's a "conspiracy theory", and that is indicative of mental illness.

The term "conspiracy theory" is a linguistic term used to control the "sheeple", and to bring shame to them if they even suggest that the US government has played a role in some nefarious act.



Considering the recent news about RNC geek Michael Connell, I thought this ABC News article worthy of DU analysis.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Looking at an official story and thinking it's full of holes is one thing
Thinking you have all the answers it takes to fill the holes with no real evidence on your side is another.

We always want those holes filled in. It's hard to admit we just don't know the answers.

Conspiracy empires are built on that.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. And what are real empires built on?
Merry Christmas.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Power. The Romans, Napoleon, Mao etc. were pretty obvious about it
Empires are generally based on the extremely visible exercise of power. Which is not to say conspiracies don't exist, but it doesn't follow that every mysterious or inexplicable event is the result of a conspiracy.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. The conspiracy that proves the fact of an "extremely visible excercise
of power" already exists without question or shadow of doubt. It's called http://www.newamericancentury.org/">Project for the New American Century.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Wow, no shit, I'd never heard of that.
I was telling epople about that back in the late 90s actually. As it turns out, they didn't succeed very well, I'm happy to say. They may have aspired to create a modern American empire but didn't have the political skills require to do so, fortunately.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
47. I have come to understand that most, if not all of History's Greatest State Criminals,
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 10:55 AM by tom_paine
of which BushCheney is surely included, operate in plain sight, with just the tiniest modicum of Plausible Deniability that you'd think wouldn't be enough to fool a chimpanzee, but yet, over and over and OVER fools 90-99% of a Target Group of Victims, while the other 1-10%, screaming our heads off, are looked at as nuts...if and until the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, BushCheney, Pinochet, Marcos or any of that group of monstrously successful State Criminals.

Happensd every time and I mean damned near EVERY TIME for thousands of years.

Tyrants, once they get their minds to going straight for it, as the Bushies clearly did , are almost always successful, at least for awhile

And damned near EVERYONE loves a Bush, a Hitler, a Stalin, a Mao...at first.

Call it the "Hit Me, Hurt Me" Constant.

Always. Bushler is no different. Still LOTS of people that believe he is honest and innocent as Baby Jesus.

:puke:

Fucking Good Germans.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
35. The government's power to hide information is painfully obvious, yes.
Sometimes, the important stuff is not very visible at all, and it's usually by design--by definition, conspiracy.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Your point is a valid one. However, a person in our culture gets
Edited on Thu Dec-25-08 03:02 PM by truedelphi
Labelled a "conspiracy theorist" simply for saying, "I do not trust the official sound byte on this event."

There are few events over the last fifty years which can be explained (at least for me) in terms of the official theory. I don't believe the official theory on the Kennedy assassination and Oswald.
Do I "know" what really happened? Nope. Can't say I do. From time to time I entertain certain concepts related to the event, but let's face it, unless someone comes forward and says, "Hey, I was the one who organized the folks on the Grassy Knoll" it is all just conjecture.

Do I believe that on Sept 11th, nineteen guys from Muslim nations got on board the airplanes that flew into the Twin towers. the field in PA, and the Pentagon, and that the activities of these people were totally below the radar on Sept 11th, but totally and mysteriously above the radar the following day? That alone seems rather fishy to me - you don't evn need to tell me that one of the men had their passport retrieved from on top of a pile of rubble, intact and only slightly singed, to make me incredulous of the official story. Do I know what happened. Again until someobody steps forward and says, "Hey I was in the room when Mr. X, Y and Z who planned this all out," then it is all just conjecture.

But I really resent people who think that there is no reason at all to doubt the official stories of these events.



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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. The holes are there because the PTB withholds information and lies
I'm more upset with the liars and secret keepers than with those who lack the mental discipline to avoid speculating beyond the data.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
42. You know why we have conspiracy theories and stories don't ya?
Because the history of humanity if full of actual conspiracies. Do the words 'et tu, Brute' ring a bell?????
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is all defenders of state propaganda - Soviet or American - have to say.
Never deal with the facts! Always deny! Always insult! The doubters of official fables are mentally ill!

Merry Christmas.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. By MacDonald's lights, then isn't the Oedipus Complex also a CT?
:)
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. His definition of "conspiracy" seems to be very narrow...n/t
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. And what do we know...
About Dr. Mr. Prof. McDonald and his CV. Because lemme tell you, if you want to meet some real whack jobs, you need look no farther than the field of Psychology. There are some real good folks there and some real pips.

Something tells me that McDonald is working from a well-formed agenda.
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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. In the field of Psychology there are the Behaviorists and...
there's the wing-nuts. There's no middle ground. Effin feel good professional friends who have a buddy who can write a prescription to make you effin feel good. It's a racket and my first profession. You need a friend? PM me, I'll talk to you pro-bono, but sorry, I don't have a friend who writes scripts and kicks money back to me. You have to employ two professionals to get that kind of service.
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CanSocDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Some of the things the MSM...


...has tried to convince me of, have frequently had me questioning THEIR mental health.

Jes' sayin'.....


.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. but how does Santa Claus do it?
esp. when so many apartments have no chimneys?
please ABC news, answer this simple question before you explain the number of devils that can dance on the head of a reactionary prick
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
37. The parents stay up and let him in.
Scheesch... don't you know that!

:)
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. i see...
says a blind man ;)
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. That's how they treated dissidents in the old Soviet Union
Anyone who found fault with Stalin's dictatorship was presumed to be mentally ill, unable to recognize the glorious workers' paradise created by the benevolent Mr. Stalin. It was a neat way to discredit critics and render them powerless for anything in the future all at once. It's a much softer game in the U.S. Critics of the Bush administration were labeled "conspiracy theorists" early on, and removed from the discussion. Anyone who had something negative to say about Bush, his two little imperial invasions or anything else about their relentless politicizing of everything from public health to prosecutions and staff meetings never got a clear shot to offer an opinion. Any critic had to be offset by at least two and preferably three or more Bush sycophants. The best anyone could hope for would be "Well, there's no telling who's right; one side has facts and reality, but the other side is quite accomplished at lying. So we let things go unchallenged."
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
32. Thanks for that well thought out post. IMO, the NeoCons were very much like Soviets
grasping at raw power, cronyism, incompetence and lack of standards causing mass deaths and letting infrastructure rot.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
54. Soviet means 'Workers', you do know, I'm sure?
the idea of the working people determining society's aims was new in 18th century- before that the idea that the privilege of the few went ahead of the needs of the many totally dominate thinking...iow in a 'rightwing world' (which the Soviet Union defied) the 'needs' of the many were looked after by members of the privileged few (ie say George Orwell, or Charles Dickens, Tom Jefferson, Mother theresa etc...) while in the VERY few efforts where 'the needs of the many' proceeded privilege, such as revolutionary France in 1796 or the USSR, or Cuba, NKorea or Vietnam etc, the PROBLEM was obvious: how do you stop the leftwing leadership from, ahem, starting to think of themselves as 'prvileged'?
Answer- It can't be done! Humanity is just too fricking stoopid....and it will die as a result (just watch; we are seeing the process picking up speed as we type...lol)
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
53. Yup...
I have personally witnessed massive secrets known to dozens of people who have kept and are still keeping utterly silent. Every time I learn of a new one, I put it on the list of things that will some day hit the headlines and shock a lot of people.

CT = Nutjob... that's the meme alrighty. The ferocity shown by some here whilst calling others CT's is pretty entertaining. I'm not sure what pushes that need, but it's very, very interesting.
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. OK MSM give us the pure unadulturated FACTS and not your baloney opinion or verified lies...
Then we can determine if any of our theories hold up.

But wait, Cheney at the shredder, evidence disposed of or classified till doomsday, laws changed to protect people who supposedly did no wrong, but need to be protected anyway because they did it for the government....

When OJ got in the car and ran, people knew what was going on, but when the pRez starts acting like the man behind the curtain in the Wizard of OZ HOW is it MORE SANE to believe the scary projection on the wall and call "those people" looking at the dumb ass trying to fool everyone with parlor tricks "the crazy ones"?

ABC - Already Been Cheney'd News - redacted for YOUR protection.




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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. Some might say that those who constantly uphold
their own views of what constitutes "mental health" have their own "special problems." Diligently searching out certain threads to post snark or blind comments to, rather than passing on by to view something more to one's interest can be seen as "obsession."
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. Vince Busliosi on the Occurrence of Conspiracies

Screw the shrinks. They don't know their ass. In the Susan Lindauer case, the mental health experts called her delusional for sayuing that she'd been a U.S. intel asset. She offered them a list of contacts and facts that could be verified but the shrinks wouldn't look. Then, the only chance that she had to have an open court hearing (very limited in scope), she produced witnesses who verified her intel contacts and predictions.

Shrinks take two sets of beliefs on religion and call one set delusions (the space people in the sky
are the lords of the universe) and pass on the mental processes needed for another set, standard religion.

I interviewed Vince Bugliosi in August, 2008 here and here While this part of the transcript was not used, I'll share it now. I asked him about "conspiracies."

-------------

And aside from crimes of passion, what percentage of the major crimes are conspiracies by the legal definition of the term?

----------------

VB: Vincent Bugliosi MC: Michael Collins (unpublished transcript)

VB: What percent of crimes are conspiracies?

MC: Yeah, of the major ones that you would prosecute.

VB: Oh, major ones. Well, they’re in the minority.

MC: But they occur, though, right?

VB: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But if you’re only prosecuting one person, almost always, but there are exceptions — well, when Clay Shaw was prosecuted by himself for conspiracy to commit murder by Garrison down in New Orleans — hold on one second. But if you have more than one person on trial for one crime, whether it’s burglary, murder or whatever it is, usually, not always but usually, there are two counts to the complaint or the indictment. One is conspiracy to commit murder. The second is murder, okay? And the conspiracy is these two people or three people or whatever it is. When you only have one person there, it’s less likely that you’re going to charge conspiracy, although you could. You could charge them with conspiring with some other person who’s not present. He could be dead, or he could have fled the jurisdiction. But I would say that conspiracy to commit a crime is very, very common, but it’s in a distinct minority.

MC: Minority, right.

VB: But it’s very common. I’ve prosecuted many conspiracy cases.

----------------
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
56. Great interview and point. Thanks! n/t
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. There are conspiracy theories and then there conspiracy theories.
Edited on Thu Dec-25-08 04:08 PM by intheflow
This guy chooses a popular but truly loony conspiracy theory--that the earth has been overcome by a race of lizard beings--to illustrate his point. Of course those people are gullible at best and mentally ill at worst. But BushCo. killing people they deem possible political threats? Not nearly so far fetched. I mean, Poppy was the head of the CIA, for gods' sakes; he regularly had people killed before breakfast, I'm sure. It's really about who labels what a conspiracy theory, or that the m$m labels all conspiracy theories as equal.

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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Speaking of intelligence (so to speak)....
Edited on Thu Dec-25-08 05:40 PM by Texas Explorer
It occurs to me while I'm thinking of conspiracy facts the government and the MSM proffer versus the so-called "conspiracy theories" put forth by broader thinkers who don't automatically drink the kool-aid. One such conspiracy fact that the government expounded on was that Saddam Hussein was responsible for or somehow involved with 9/11. They later proffered that Iraq was developing and stockpiling weapons of mass destruction - all the while never again mentioning that Iraq was under UN sanctions and a U.S. No-Fly Zone and intense U.S. military, intelligence, and public scrutiny for a solid decade before 9/11. Instead, what we have learned is that Iraq had nothing whatever to do with 9/11 and they did not have weapons of mass destruction.

But the idea that the boosh administration, with their oil ties and motives, would go there to seize control of Iraq's oil reserves (in the first salvo in a coming world resource wars) is some nutty conspiracy theory cooked up in someone's mentally-ill brain as an attempt to satisfy their own view of the world. The idea that a group called Neo-Cons or PNAC, featuring the likes of Jeb Bush and the number one talk-jerk on Faux News William Kristol and donald rumsfeld, would initiate "some catastrophic and catalysing event – like a new Pearl Harbor" in order to get Americans to accept their new vision for our Nation, is a "conpiracy theory" dreamed up by the mentally ill.


Whatever, McDonald and ABC News....
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. freaking Kafkaesque. n/t
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Joe the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. "You can't criticize a conspiracy theory..........
Edited on Thu Dec-25-08 05:56 PM by Azimov
because the moment you do you become part of the conspiracy"

I read that on here awhile back and it seems to be true. After the last 8 years I seldom ever believe the official story, the dishonesty and secrecy of the Bush administration has got me interested in conspiracy theory's. I don't necessarily believe most of the conspiracies I read but some actually make sense to me.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
21. Something to keep in mind.
If you had said out loud back in the 1970s and 1980s that various assassination and terrorist attacks being carried out in Western Europe and which were commonly blamed on radical leftists and communists were actually carried out by European, right wing groups with ties to ex-Nazis and with connections to western intelligence agencies (including the CIA, MI6), and this was done in order to discredit the left, you would have been labeled as one of those crazy, mentally unstable conspiracy theorists. Only now we know it's true, but it's just not polite to remind the sheeple about how "democratic" governments betrayed the people's trust and stood by as innocents were being gunned down and blown up in order that they might score political points.


The “strategy of tension” denotes a highly secretive series of interconnected covert operations conducted jointly by the CIA and MI6 largely in Western Europe during the this period. Well-documented by several respected historians, confirmed by official inquiries, and corroborated by former intelligence officials, the “strategy of tension” is one of those unsavoury moments in contemporary history that we don’t learn about in school, or even university.

My favourite book on the subject, and the most authoritative in my view, is Dr. Daniele Ganser’s NATO’s Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe (2004). Published in the UK as part of the “Contemporary Security Studies” series of London-based academic press Routledge, Ganser’s study is the first major historical work to bring the “strategy of tension” into the mainstream of scholarship.

During the Cold War, indeed through to the late 1980s, the United States, United Kingdom, and Western European governments and secret services, participated in a sophisticated NATO-backed operation to engineer terrorist attacks inside Western Europe, to be blamed on the Soviet Union. The objective was to galvanize public opinion against leftwing policies and parties, and ultimately to mobilize popular support for purportedly anti-Soviet policies at home and abroad – most of which were really designed to legitimize brutal military interventions against nationalist independence movements in the “Third World”.

SNIP

The existence of this secret operation exploded into public controversy when in August 1990 upon the admissions in parliament by Italian Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti, the existence of ‘Gladio’ was exposed as a secret sub-section of Italian military-intelligence services, responsible for domestic bombings blamed on Italian Communists. Ganser documents in intricate detail how a subversive network created by elements of western intelligence services – particularly that of the US and UK - orchestrated devastating waves of terrorist attacks blamed on the Soviet Union, not only in Italy, but also in Spain, Germany, France, Turkey, Greece, i.e. throughout western Europe. Despite a number of European parliamentary inquiries; an European Union resolution on the Gladio phenomenon; NATO’s close-doors admissions to European ambassadors; confirmations of the international operation from senior CIA officials; and other damning documentary evidence; NATO, the CIA and MI6 have together consistently declined to release their secret files on the matter.

http://nafeez.blogspot.com/2007/05/strategy-of-tension.html



Sword Play

By Chris Floyd

02/18/05 "Moscow Times" - - 'You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force ... the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security."

This was the essence of Operation Gladio, a decades-long covert campaign of terrorism and deceit directed by the intelligence services of the West -- against their own populations. Hundreds of innocent people were killed or maimed in terrorist attacks -- on train stations, supermarkets, cafes and offices -- which were then blamed on "leftist subversives" or other political opponents. The purpose, as stated above in sworn testimony by Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra, was to demonize designated enemies and frighten the public into supporting ever-increasing powers for government leaders -- and their elitist cronies.

First revealed by Italian Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti in 1991, Gladio (from the Latin for "sword") is still protected to this day by its founding patrons, the CIA and MI6. Yet parliamentary investigations in Italy, Switzerland and Belgium have shaken out a few fragments of the truth over the years. These have been gathered in a new book, "NATO's Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe," by Daniele Ganser, as Lila Rajiva reports on CommonDreams.org.

Originally set up as a network of clandestine cells to be activated behind the lines in the event of a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, Gladio quickly expanded into a tool for political repression and manipulation, directed by NATO and Washington. Using right-wing militias, underworld figures, government provocateurs and secret military units, Gladio not only carried out widespread terrorism, assassinations and electoral subversion in democratic states such as Italy, France and West Germany, but also bolstered fascist tyrannies in Spain and Portugal, abetted the military coup in Greece and aided Turkey's repression of the Kurds.

snip

Indeed, it would not do for the families of the 85 people ripped apart by the Aug. 2, 1980 bombing of the Bologna train station to know that their loved ones had been murdered by "men inside Italian state institutions and ... men linked to the structures of United States intelligence," as the Italian Senate concluded after its investigation in 2000.

The Bologna atrocity is an example of what Gladio's masters called "the strategy of tension" -- fomenting fear to keep populations in thrall to "strong leaders" who will protect the nation from the ever-present terrorist threat. And as Rajiva notes, this strategy wasn't limited to Western Europe. It was


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8110.htm



Security Blanket: Western Democracy and the Strategy of Tension
By Chris Floyd

The idea that a democratic government would deliberately create fake "extremist groups" then send them out to foment violence and terrorism -- in order to discredit legitimate opposition to elite rule and to "justify" authoritarian powers -- has long been derided in "serious" circles as that worst of modern heresies: "conspiracy theory." Anyone advancing such a preposterous notion is instantly relegated to the ranks of the "lunatic fringe," and dismissed with varying degrees of contempt and condescension.

And the woeful fact that millions of the ruminants out there in the vast public herd swallow these wild tales and believe that their betters are up to no good is also widely deplored in the higher circles of public discourse. As any fully-accredited, perk-laden, sinecured think-tanker can tell you, democratic governments are led by men and women devoted to public service. Sure, there can be fierce disputes over policies and approaches and outcomes and ideologies and competence. Sure, some people may step over a line here and there in their pursuit of what they believe is the nation's best interests. But just as western democracies do not torture, do not launch aggressive wars, do not spy upon their own people or imprison them by the millions, they most assuredly do not create and support extremist groups and instigate acts of terror and chaos to advance authoritarian agendas.

It is indeed unfortunate that the general public is prey to these disturbing theories, which breed such a widespread distrust of the noble intentions and essential (if occasionally misguided or incompentently executed) goodness of our leading men and women. However, there is a very reasonable explanation for the credence given to these fringe beliefs:

They happen to be true.

We've written often here of the Pentagon's plan to foment terrorism where needed to achieve the goals of the "National Security State." This is but one of a staggering array of examples of the use of "the strategy of tension" by the "advanced" Western democracies of the modern world. This week came yet another. As Robert Mancini reports in the Guardian, the former president of Italy, Francesco Cossiga, let a great many cats out of the bag when he gave some sage advice to Italy's current interior minister, Robert Maroni, on how to deal with the ongoing protests by students and professors over funding cuts for higher education. As Mancini notes, Cossiga -- who had once been interior minister himself, as well as prime minister -- told the Quotidiano Nazionale:

"Maroni should do what I did when I was secretary of the interior. He should withdraw the police from the streets and the universities, infiltrate the movement with secret (provacateurs) agents, ready to do anything, and, for about 10 days, let the demonstrators devastate shops, set fire to cars and lay waste the cities. After which, strengthened by popular consent, the sound of ambulance sirens should be louder than the police cars. The security forces should massacre the demonstrators without pity, and send them all to hospital. They shouldn't arrest them, because the magistrates would release them immediately, but they should beat them up. And they should also beat up those teachers who stir them up. Especially the teachers. Not the elderly lecturers, of course, but the young women teachers."

http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/3/1650-security-blanket-western-democracy-and-the-strategy-of-tension.html



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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
61. Thanks for that. The history of Italy's 70's "terror" floored me when i first read of it.
Yes, we do "kill our own people".

I wish more people had heard of it.
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Truth Teller Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
23. The tin foilers are driven by spite and frustration, not mental illness
Edited on Thu Dec-25-08 08:10 PM by Truth Teller
There's plenty of it on both sides of the fence, directed at political opponents, usually those in power.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Ah....here you are at last: "Come to Save the Day"....are you?
lol's
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
50. conspiracy smearest
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
25. That is the most amazing piece of fucking bullshit I have heard in months.
Edited on Thu Dec-25-08 09:47 PM by dixiegrrrrl
"general, unexplained feelings of discontent that are caused by a problem with the brain."

Yeah, I guess some of us have an "adjustment disorder".
It started in 2001, big time.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
26. I see the media is fulfilling its obligation to keep the masses ignorant, and in the cases
where there is a seepage of truth, to label those claims as insanity or mental disturbance.

As my sigline says: Just because you are paranoid, does not mean they are not out to get you..
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
28. To criticize “conspiracy theorists” is to blame the victim --
--instead of taking on the perpetrators. There is a reason why people come up with conspiracy theories—they happen to be a normal and healthy response to the experience of being forbidden access to relevant information and being constantly lied to by people who do.

The radical therapist Claude Steiner once said that paranoia is actually a heightened state of awareness, in which the paranoid put together narratives that make sense of the only information they have available. He gave an example of a woman he treated who believed that her husband was engaged in several elaborate plots on her life. What Steiner did was to interview the husband, who was disturbed by his wife's narrative. The husband was in fact thinking of having her permanently committed to the funny farm, but he always responded to his wife's questions about what was wrong between them by saying "Nothing, honey."

That was the crux of the problem. The wife was in a heightened state of awareness and knew only that "Nothing, honey" was a pile of steaming bullshit. Not having access to real information about what was going on in her husband's head, she invented it. Steiner’s ultimately successful therapy was simply to convince the husband to stop lying and withholding information. In this case, the husband did not exactly lead the examined life, and was unaware of the harm that social "white lies" can sometimes cause. Being genuinely concerned about his wife, he agreed to try to be more introspective and commit to being honest about his feelings. The wife agreed to acknowledge this effort, and to be more persistent about asking for information instead of automatically assuming the worst. Of course members of the current administration have no such commitment to making it all better for the rest of us—see the classic Ingrid Berman/Charles Boyer movie Gaslight for a psychological take on their game.

The bottom line here is that it is a basic requirement of sanity to be able to make sense of one’s information environment, and if those people who know what is going on behind closed doors constantly lie to the public and withhold information, people will naturally want to fill in the blanks. This process is analogous to the effects of sensory deprivation—float in one of those tanks long enough to deprive your brain of sensory input, and it will quickly start inventing some.

"Official explanations" are typically like a picture puzzle with half the pieces missing. Many people take magic markers and extrapolate from what is visible to fill in the missing spaces in an attempt to put together the entire picture. They are constantly ridiculed for this, and opinion makers who wish to be taken seriously always bog the discussion down in disputes about whether or not the colored-in parts really look like the original pieces. Some will be closer approximations than others, of course; a few may well be wildly off. But the really important issue (which remains for the most part unaddressed) is “What in bleeding hell gives our government the right to hide the pieces in the first place?”

Attacking people who are trying to make sense of their information environments with limited data is highly unethical, no matter how nutty their theories may sometimes be. It's exactly like putting a rape victim on trial for her previous sexual history instead of going after the rapist. Theories may fall anywhere on a continuum from plausible to seriously off-base, just as women's prior sexual histories may vary from none to extremely experienced. By any objective analysis, some unofficial theories are prim virgins in high-collared white lace blouses, and some are prancing around in tight red spandex streetwalker outfits. But either way, it just plain should not matter—critics should focus on calling the rapists, liars and secret-keepers to account rather than slandering their victims.

“Conspiracy theorists” are commonly dismissed as irrational or unscientific. It’s true that scientific training helps people to cope with not having certain and final answers, and that only a minority of the population has such training. One important part of scientific training is learning to avoid speculating beyond the data, but this requirement of the scientific process depends critically on the assumption (which is almost always valid) that scientists will present all relevant data and methodology to their research community as accurately and completely as they can. Since this condition is not currently met by our elite ruling class, it is outrageous to attack as “unscientific” people who express concern about a government that insists on keeping secrets from them, especially when those secrets threaten the foundation of our democracy. The attacks should be directed instead toward those who are keeping what should be publicly available information from them.

How long will the official arbiters of "reality" continue to defend the rapists, the liars, and those who conceal information that in a real democracy ought to be made available to the public? More people should join with those who are demanding more honesty and transparency in the public sphere. The urge to be accepted as a real member of the elite class of reality creators, those who claim the right to lie and withhold information on the grounds that they alone are entitled to decide what the public should know, can be very tempting. Any person who gives in to this temptation badly fails our democratic republic.

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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
55. self-delete
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 04:05 PM by Artiechoke
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
60. Most excellent analysis.
As Mr. D. put it this am..
the brain/mind is designed to makes sense of pieces of data.

When we hear bullshit, we seek an honest answer.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
29. I'm sure our minds can be swept clean through shock.
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 07:21 AM by mmonk
An erased clean slate. It's been done to many.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
30. That's similar to the Soviets locking up dissidents for being crazy
I've always thought some in powerful US elites didn't hate the totalitarian Communists...they envied them.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. And despite it all over eight years, over 100,000 DUers have yet to be locked up


:eyes:

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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. That wasn't my point
My point was that I believe those elements of our power structure that once decried how evil the Soviet empire was also seem to be embracing a lot of similar authoritarian tactics now that they've cornered the market, so to speak. No, they aren't rounding people up (it's terribly paranoid and alarmist to say that's about to happen, but it's also incredibly naive to say that it can't happen). The sophisitcated media, political, and economic tactics of marginalizing dissidents in America save the trouble of locking anyone up.

Truncheons and gulags are bad form, old boy.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
34. Then there's the mental deficiency that causes most of us...
...to believe most of an official story, most of the time. A little mental illness may be healthier, on occasion.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. Check my sig line
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
36. I believe in the LIHOP theory, but I think there's something to this
Governments DO conspire. So to see the potential of conspiracy is not crazy.

But there are people who think EVERYTHING is a conspiracy. And I do think that seeing conspiracies everywhere is a bit crazy. As is thinking conspiracies are impossible.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #36
62. from grade school, where 1 group of girls whispers together to ostracize their former friend....
to...

The Wealth of Nations, Book I, Chapter VII

People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices....
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
38. But preemptive war baseed on fucking lies is soooooo healthy!
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
39. LOL. Looks like one of many test baloons prepping us for potential Sovietization.
Is Obama the man we think he is and will he reverse these trends.

If it actually seems he might be successful, will the Bushies murder him as they almost certainly did to the Kennedys and Salem Bin Laden, to name a couple examples out of dozens? (God Forbid, but it's a question that NEEDS to be asked publicly BEFORE the Bushies kill him, not after -God Forbid-)
There can be no question that the National Mentailty of our grotesque toadying media courtiers and much everything else at all levels, whether they know it or not, is the odious creed of Virtual Slaves.

The more enslaved the American Subject Populace gets, the more the disgusting Toady M$M (with a very few exceptions) will shout from the rooftops how we are the freest we've ever been, and that we are the freest in the world. (I so very hope Obama can restore our System of Checks and Balances thus make this possible future have never happened)

Naturally, like all totalitarian nations (please, Obama, turn this thought intro the absurdity it should always be in a Free Nation), the opposite will be FAR close to the truth than the Bushie-Commie-Nazi-style lie emanating from State-Controlled M$M.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Get yer papers in order Comrade!
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Oh, they're in order, all right.
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 09:48 AM by tom_paine
Collected works of Tom Paine, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, et al?

Check.

Great Speeches by Frederick Douglass and MLK?

Check.

Declaration of Independence?

Check.

United States Constitution?

Check.

Come and fucking get my papers, you Bushie Fucks. Come and get 'em! I'll show 'em to you.

All you have to do is ask, Bushie Comrades.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Dat is an impressive set of papers dudie!
:toast:
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OxQQme Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #43
49. One could say that The Bible
and it's rewritten history of our beginningsand the continuation of the story of only ONE GOD who came down amidst thunder and lightning in a huge cloud of smoke and terrorized a wandering nation.
(can U say "SPIN")

Who, or what, actually were those 'other' gods and goddesses, that were demonized by The One and Only?
Who could, and did, things that humans had no imagination for.
Flying visibly through the sky.
Using weapons of mass destruction such as the story of Lot.

What do we know about Innana/Ishtar? Or Enki? Or Enlil? They were real for millennium throughout the mid east and Indus cultures. Later into the Egyptian, Greek and Roman cultures under different names but having the same attributes for their suchness.
Or the realness behind the Caduceus and what it signifies? Think: Entwined DNA threads.
Adam and Eve being consciously cloned experiments to produce 'workers' by those very male and female deities.
The Garden of E-din.
The Gold Coast being an historic example of antiquity. Lucy died some millions of years ago while migrating away from that region.
Or the sudden emergence of the knowledge of Pi and geometry with no evidence of a preceding learning curve.

One could, if interested, learn of Baghdad's history.
Or the ancient libraries of the cities of Ur and Nineveh.

Was the story of Gilgamesh, son of a goddess and a mortal, seeking the long life span of the deities fact, or fantasy?

What was the purpose of the humongous level granite platform the Dome of the Rock sits on?
Or the original pyramid?

You want your conspiracy theorist?
What's real?

And then there are crop circles.....................:banghead:
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
45. One of the problems with this article
is that some of us (unlike both the author and the "expert" from what I can tell) have actually worked in counterintelligence.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Please elaborate and clarify your comments.
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 10:48 AM by tom_paine
I am always interested in hearing from people who may have specialized knowledge.

Please elaborate what you mean.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. I spent a lot of years in intelligence and counterintelligence.
much of that working on black programs, some of it reading first-hand reports of what our people were up to in the field.

On a very basic level, we all know the government has tons of classified information. It follows that there are tons of "official stories" that either are half truths or are complete cover stories. We know people like Plame have cover identities and that those involve not just the individual, but also the "companies" they work for as well as their mission.

I'm not a fancy doctor like the guy they interviewed, but coming from my perspective, I'd say you have to be delusional and mentally unstable to have blind faith in "official stories" when we KNOW the government uses cover stories. The two views (we use cover stories and all official stories should be believed) are simply not reconcilable to a rationale person.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #48
57. 100% agreement. I don't have to have worked in intel or counterintel to know that.
Thanks for the clarification. What can I say but that I strongly agree?
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specialed Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
52. One mans conspiracy is another planning committee.
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TEmperorHasNoClothes Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
58. just because you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get you ;)
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
59. "Into the Buzzsaw" explains how investigative journalists are shut down
when they uncover and seek to publish information that runs contrary to the establishment promoted world view. That of course helps keep any damaging information in the realm of "conspiracy theory" instead of conspiracy fact.


Into The Buzzsaw: 18 Tales Of Media Censorship

by Michelle Goldberg


Between them, the authors of the incendiary new book "Into the Buzzsaw," out this month from Prometheus (actually been out for a few years now /JC), have won nearly every award journalism has to give -- a Pulitzer, several Emmys, a Peabody, a prize from Investigative Reporters and Editor, an Edward R. Murrorw and several accolades from the Society of Professional Journalists. One is veteran of the Drug Enforcement Administration and a best-selling author, another is a Nieman Fellow at Harvard.

And most of them are considered, at best, marginal by the mainstream media. At worst, they've been deemed incompetent and crazy for having the audacity to uncover evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors committed by government agencies and corporate octopi.

Edited by ex-CBS producer Kristina Borjesson, "Into the Buzzsaw" is a collection of essays, mostly by serious journalists excommunicated from the media establishment for tackling subjects like the CIA's role in drug smuggling, lies perpetuated by the investigators of TWA flight 800, POWs rotting in Vietnam, a Korean war massacre, the disenfranchisement of black voters in Bush's election, bovine growth hormone's dangers and a host of other unpopular issues.

Borjesson describes "the buzzsaw" as "what can rip through you when you try to investigate or expose anything this country's large institutions -- be they corporate or government -- want to keep under wraps. The system fights back with official lies, disinformation, and stonewalling.

SNIP

There's something of an X-Files feel to a lot of these stories, though not in the way that condescending guardians of official truth think. Rather, their surreal feeling comes from the first-person experiences of people finding the institutions they've served all their lives suddenly turning on them. As Borjesson writes, "Walk into the buzzsaw and you'll cut right to this layer of reality. You will feel a deep sense of loss and betrayal. A shocking shift in paradigm. Anyone who hasn't experienced it will call you crazy. Those who don't know the truth, or are covering it up, will call you a conspiracy nut."(My emphasis /JC)

http://www.freedomofthepress.net/intothebuzzsaw.htm
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