Plea deal offered to 8-year-old murder suspect

[Ghost in the Machine]

Plea deal offered to 8-year-old murder suspect
Published: 11/30/08, 7:46 AM EDT
By BOB CHRISTIE

PHOENIX (AP) - Prosecutors have offered a plea deal to an 8-year-old boy charged with murder in the shooting deaths of his father and another man in their eastern Arizona home, court records show.

Complete details of the offer weren't spelled out in a court filing posted Saturday on the Apache County Superior Court's Web site.

But County Attorney Criss Candelaria wrote that he has "tendered a plea offer to the juvenile's attorneys that would resolve all the charges in the juvenile court contingent on the results of the mental health evaluations."

Candelaria was responding to a defense motion seeking to block him from dropping one of two first-degree murder charges the boy faces in the deaths of his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39, earlier this month.

Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer argued in a filing Tuesday that prosecutors wanted the charge dismissed so they could refile it when the boy was older and pursue case in adult court.

Brewer said Saturday that the deal would resolve the case without it being transferred to adult court, but he declined to provide additional details. Although he is considering the offer, Brewer said he is unsure of his client's ability to understand the proceedings. At least two mental health evaluations are yet to be completed.

http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?bfromind=7814&eeid=6217817&_sitecat=1522&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=1&ck=&ch=ne

[davidinalameda]

1. how can an 8 year old have the capacity to commit murder?

this has to be the biggest farce I've seen in a long long time

[BlooInBloo]

5. He can't. Everybody knows that an 8 year old is in no wise an adult...

The public simply wants blood, and is happy to ignore that fact, tossing out whatever big words seem likely to make it happen.

[LisaL]

6. And WTF do you propose be done with the child?

He is accused of a double murder. If he isn't charged or accepts a plea deal, the government won't be able to get him "help" most of you so like to talk about. He'd be most likely just released into the care of his mother.

[pnwmom]

8. Wrong. The plea deal can require treatment. n/t

[bunkerbuster1]

10. Treatment.

WTF is wrong with you?

[LisaL]

14. That's why they are offering him a plea deal.

WTF is wrong with you?
:eyes:

[Deja Q]

13. I was bullied at age 7 - just sitting on a bench is enough to attract vermin.

So, forgive me, the only thing farcical is the belief that an 8 year old lacks those feelings.

Or, rather, how do we know how the 8 year old was brought up? Was he brought up? Was he abused?

There are plenty of possibilities to infer, unfortunately.


(that's not to say I felt the desire to murder as a response to their antisocial behavior -- if 7 year olds have the desire to bully, they are equally able to fathom far more heinous acts.)

[davidinalameda]

16. you want to trade war stories?

try growing up in a redneck town as the school fag

the boy was abused and he told a social worker in so many words that he wasn't going to take it any longer

can an 8 year old child truly understand what it means to kill someone?

I don't think so

[verdalaven]

20. At eight, a kid should understand death.

Particularly a kid who's father took him hunting.

My daughter understood as young as 18 months old what it meant to hurt another person and showed empathy if another child cried in her presence, hugging and comforting them. As a former caregiver, all but one of the children I took care of over the years displayed that type of understanding of another's pain. Kids understand more than you'd think.

[JI7]

2. they should just have a child psychiatrist evaluate him

and get him whatever other help he needs.

he shouldn't be treated like a criminal. plea deal ? that's ajoke.

personally i think the father is at fault. he probably abused him and taught the son to use violence to deal with problems. i guess he didn't think the boy would use that against him. the father had it coming.

[LisaL]

3. Did you even read the article?

You (and that doesn't just apply to you personally, but to most on DU) can keep talking on about "help" all you want. On what authority would anyone offer him "help" if he isn't charged with anything?

[pnwmom]

9. Do you understand what a plea deal is?

It means that the boy makes a guilty plea to something, in exchange for a reduced sentence or various conditions. In this case, the sentence is thought to involve a requirement for treatment.

[LisaL]

12. Do you understand what I am saying? Apparently not.

[pnwmom]

15. You asked: "On what authority would anyone offer him "help" if he isn't charged

with anything?"

And the answer is, on the authority of the plea deal, if he accepted it by pleading guilty to whatever charge they agree to.

[TypeKast]

4. Hmm

Hmm good point.

[meowomon]

7. That poor baby

I had a sum total of 3 spankings in my life delivered by my dad who explained that he loved me and the bible told him he had to do this to discipline his kids when grounding or a good "talking to" didn't work. And he usually did so with tears in his eyes; he hated spanking us! I couldn't imagine being able to count 1000 acts of violence on my body by 8 years old. Three was enough for me to think my parents were tyrants!

[Midlodemocrat]

11. This whole thing is a mess. I read somewhere, (probably here)

that the child kept a record of his spankings and indicated that the 1000th one would be the 'last one'.

How in God's name can an 8yo get 1000 spankings over his short time here on Earth?

It boggles.

Plus, the Granmother's reaction is very, very troubling.

[rvablue]

17. The reason why this "plea deal" might actually be really effed up

is that the DA wanted to have one of the charges dropped before the deal was struck......leaving open the option of trying the boy once he becomes 18, as there are no statute of limitations for murder.

This really bugged me when I saw it on TV. The concept of, "oh yeah, the little boy is too young to know what he did, but when he grows up and matures, then we'll nail him with it"....is very disturbing.

[anigbrowl]

18. Yes, that struck me as waaaaay off-base

Though on teh other hand, we have that from the defense attorney so I'm taking it with a grain of salt. I do not think attorneys should be allowed to discuss cases in public before they get to court...for that matter I don't think the police should be allowed to conduct perp walks or release mugshots. I have a rather low degree of confidence in the US criminal justice system.

[sohndrsmith]

19. ... and the police want him charged as an adult...?

Per NYT: "The St. Johns police have urged prosecutors to try him as an adult", but they say the possibility is doubtful.

Human brains aren't fully formed with "adult" cognitive/emotional/other abilities at age 8. They aren't fully formed at age 19 for that matter.

This kid has serious things that need to be addressed, but I think it's incomprehensible that he's being treated like anything other than a kid. A little kid. A troubled little kid he may be (looks like he very much is) but he's a child. He cannot be held to the same standards that even an older teen might be, even if he's the worst kid in the world - he's still a kid. It's different. This is doing nothing but destroying him even further. I don't get it.

I don't think what he did (if he did it) should be ignored, not at all. But it is insane to do this to a kid only a few years from kindergarten for goodness sake. They can save this kids life (possibly) or destroy it. It looks like they're doing everything to destroy it, from what I've read. Hopefully I haven't read everything and that isn't happening.

If Police truly are pushing to try him as an adult, they need serious training in child development and psychology and all the relevant issues regarding abnormal development, abuse, chemical exposure/ingestion/exposure, the whole gamut. Even if the child has become irrevocably a "bad kid", it is almost assuredly traceable to trauma - emotional/physiological/both... so that argument doesn't hold up either.

I'm shocked that this kid is being handled this way. It is obvious, though casual observation, that this is not a fully formed adult - not even close. This is horrible. I don't know what the kid needs or what consequences he should face, but he is NOT an adult, and he's not even a "Juvenile" statistically speaking, the average first offense is committed at age 15.3 years of age.
Still a child, but this kid is HALF that age. He is developmentally, cognitively, emotionally VERY different - just physiologically speaking.

This is insane.

Sorry.

My last rant for the night.