It is a L-O-A-N not a bailout

[DainBramaged]

do we understand that. No OK, let me give you the definition.

LOAN

–noun 1. the act of lending; a grant of the temporary use of something: the loan of a book.
2. something lent or furnished on condition of being returned, esp. a sum of money lent at interest: a $1000 loan at 10 percent interest.

The auto industry is asking for a loan, not a bailout.

[LewMoss]

1. Then...

They should ask for the L-O-A-N from Mexico, Canada and wherever else they moved their manufacturing plants instead of the US.

[niyad]

2. welcome to DU

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LewMoss]

11. Por Quo?

Most of my wife's family worked for, or related to, the auto companies. When Ford, GM, et al closed the plants in the US and opened them outside of the US, guess who lost their jobs? If they want a LOAN / bailout or whatever the heck the euphemism is today, then one of the stipulations should be to bring the plants back and hire US workers again.

[DainBramaged]

5. Where do you live?

If a natural disaster strikes your town, do you ask for a low interest LOAN from FEMA to rebuild? or free aid?

Just askin'.

Should we not help you in times of need??????

[LewMoss]

13. By that logic

I live in Nevada.

So if I want to get my loan from FEMA and move to Jamaica, that would be okay, right?

My point was that there should be something that says they want to bring jobs back into the US.

[ipfilter]

7. By that logic should Toyota and Honda ask the .gov

for a loan instead of the Japanese? They build cars here in the US as well as Japan.

[Bluebear]

15. Welcome to DU and you do have a point there

[Lance_Boyle]

4. it's only a LOAN if it gets paid back

a loan never repaid is a write-off for a bank... what is it for taxpayers?

[earth mom]

8. I'd rather lose money trying to save jobs than paying fat cat bankers like with the bailout

that will NEVER EVER be repaid. :grr:

[Lance_Boyle]

14. I didn't support that bailout either.

Curious notion we've come to in the past 4 months, that rewarding failure is a good thing. Now it's down to "but THOSE GUYS got bailed out... we should too!" I say we should learn from our mistakes. Lesson number one: the bank bailout was a mistake.

[earth mom]

17. How have the Union workers failed anyone? Why should they be punished?

I'm all for kicking the fat cats out of Detroit, but I want to see those jobs saved. That's why I'm for this loan-for the workers and for all the people who have jobs tied to the automotive industry.

[Lance_Boyle]

20. I would have said the same thing about tobacco and textile workers

and IT workers, and workers in every other field who have gotten their asses handed to them over the past 2 decades. Why was everyone, including the UAW, content to sit by and watch while THOSE workers got reamed? Why are the auto workers more important than them?

Answer: they're not. It's just that the pain has taken a while to catch up to the UAW. To butcher the famous saying, first they came for the textile workers, and the UAW folks did nothing. Then they came for the IT workers, and the UAW did nothing. Now they're coming after the UAW. Nobody who's left is inclined to speak up for them.

[DainBramaged]

21. Thanks but it falls on deaf ears here

take a stroll through the Labor forum. A few of us try to post (Omaha Steve is the rock there) but it is ignored just-like the prayer support forum.

[JuniperLea]

26. Why do you support the execs who are already saying the unions are the problem

And they are already planning on layoffs? And you want to give those rat bastards more money?

They need to put some brains at the top first. These idiots are completely delusional.

They should give the companies to the workers, lock, stock, staff, and rain barrel.

[JuniperLea]

25. Have you heard what the auto execs had to say about the unions?

They are blaming the unions on the collapse of the industry! They are talking about layoffs as a measure to decrease costs! Then they have the Audacity of Dopes to fly fucking private jets to their beggar's banquet! Idiots.

[earth mom]

27. I admit that I hadn't heard them dissing the workers, but I don't have cable.

If Congress approves the loan, it had better be with the caveat that workers aren't laid off. :grr:

[JuniperLea]

28. That's what I'm saying...

These corporate pirates need to go away... and someone else needs to handle the company and the loan. If we just give it to them, we're giving it to them, not the workers. They want the union to go away... we can't let that happen.

[DainBramaged]

10. Screwed

But what about the banks THEY got bailed out, but that didn't garner as much anger as the Automakers here on DU.

I wonder why hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Lance_Boyle]

16. You don't think the bank bailout (heist) raised hackles here?

I watched it and I remember raw nerves and acrimony. Very similar to what we're seeing now over the auto bailout. I think the difference is that we didn't have a lot of (vocal) financial industry people on DU making their case as you and some others are doing for the auto industry, so the discussion here was a bit one-sided. There are people here with skin in the game WRT an auto bailout, and there remain lots of people not associated with that industry who still suffer some anal soreness from the bank heist. There will be more conflict over this one because to some it's personal, and to the rest it's adding insult to the injury we suffered last month with the bank heist.

[pampango]

19. Selective memories. If you're building a case for an auto loan/bailout,

you seek to minimize the outrage at DU over the financial industry bailout. (If you didn't complain about Wall Street fat cats getting a bailout, how can you complain about the auto industry and its workers?)

[Lance_Boyle]

22. I don't fault DB or anyone else who supports the auto bailout

for their impassioned defenses of their idea. Like I said before, they have skin in the game. I do wish the tone would soften, though, against those of use who disapprove of an auto industry bailout. It's not like any of us discussing this on DU will have any say whatsoever in the outcome, so it does precious little good for us to abuse each other over it.

[PVnRT]

29. VERY selective memories

Especially funny since DB participated in those arguments. Hmmmmmmm indeed.

[JVS]

24. corporate welfare

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Are the Big 3 a good loan risk?

How do they plan to pay the loan and interest?

If they are a good loan risk they should have no problem finding other sources if the congress turns them down.

[niyad]

9. did you hear michael moore's proposal last night--about taking over the auto industry, kicking

out the jerks in charge, and making it clear that they would be building useful things--mass transit, hybrids, etc

the only thing I would add to that is that the ceo's, etc., should forfeit their salaries, and go to jail.

[midnight]

12. Do you know what interest rate they want this loan at? Please

don't tell me zero.

[The2ndWheel]

18. All these loans are how we got into this mess

The consumer has to take out a loan to get the car. Now the car company has to take out a loan to allow the consumer who took out a loan to have a reason to have taken out the loan. The US government has to take out a loan from future generations in order to give the car company the ability to give the consumer a reason to take out a loan. I guess future generations can then just print even more money and push off the problems into the future, because they'll control the past and the present.

[JuniperLea]

23. With what exactly as collateral?

More of the failed leadership? These guys aren't even smart enough to fly commercial to their beggar's banquet, during which they tout plans of laying workers off and blaming the union for the industries demise... these are the fools you want to had a wad of cash to?

They need to get someone a lot smarter at the top before I feel the slightest bit comfortable about this.

And don't tell me real estate... show me a recent title search that shows they own it all flat out, with no encumbrances, no liens, no mortgages. Then tell me what that property is worth in the current market.

Please. They are going to take the money, run, say so sorry, and the union will be busted and people will be out of jobs anyway.