What does morality -- or immorality -- have to do with

[pnwmom]

one's sexual orientation?

Isn't that a matter of one's religious beliefs, or lack thereof?

And so wouldn't that judgment best be left out of the political sphere, along with other religious beliefs?

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. It is all about the lie that homosexuality is a choice n/t

[pnwmom]

7. I'm not clear how that answers my question.

For example, the Catholic Church no longer argues with the idea of a homosexual orientation, and it doesn't claim that the orientation itself is a choice. But it distinguishes between the orientation, which it does not consider immoral, and actions, which it does.

I'm asking if sexual orientation can be considered either moral or immoral -- apart from a religious context. If the only judgment is a religious one, then the judgment doesn't belong in the political sphere, IMO.

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. Your question was specifically about sexual orientation, not actions

And Pace's comments were about homosexuality, not homosexual acts.

As I said, it is a lie to say that homosexuality or any sexual orientation is a choice. Your question you asked was answered, it just wasn't the question you apparently meant to ask. :hi:

[pnwmom]

13. What about this question:

"And so wouldn't that judgment best be left out of the political sphere, along with other religious beliefs?"

:hi: (And we're up early, aren't we.)

[TechBear_Seattle]

15. I answered your first question, not the second

At least, not directly :blush:

Since it is a lie that sexual orientation has an inherent "morality," it should be left out of the political sphere, yes.

[hobbit709]

2. Morality has nothing to do with religious beliefs

But religion has co-opted the idea that morality is religious. I grew up without religion and still learned what is moral and what is not. They indentify sexual orientation with their religious beliefs the same way they identify moral values with their religious beliefs.

[Solly Mack]

4. Thank you!

[Zuiderelle]

8. You are absolutely correct.

[pnwmom]

14. And morality also has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

Being gay isn't immoral.
Being straight isn't moral.

[BOSSHOG]

3. Nothing

Unless one is an insane religious zealot who wants to pick and choose in the bible the passages which justify their hate. They don't pick or choose the passages which would make their lives uncomfortable. It means something to people who cherish their constitutional liberties and yet work 24/7 to restrict the liberties of fellow citizens who happen to be law abiding tax paying productive citizens. It matters to politicians who want to use the issue to titillate the literally millions I have described above to continue to vote. In this veterans mind, those people have yet to earn their constitutional liberties. I consider them domestic enemies of the constitution

I DID NOT SPEND 24 YEARS IN UNIFORM SUPPORTING AND DEFENDING THE BIBLE and my hate for those who want to replace the constitution with the bible is rational.

[mzteris]

5. one can be immoral

and straight and

one can be moral and gay -

and vice versa, ya know?

[pnwmom]

11. Of course. And I'm sure Obama and Sen. Clinton understand that, too.

I'm referring to the criticism of them for not making a moral judgment about homosexuality. I understood them both to be saying that such judgments don't belong in the political arena.

[mzteris]

18. hey!

we agree on something!

:hi:

[kevinbgoode]

17. Exactly

And any person who obsesses about projecting imagined sexual activities of others is perverted, in my opinion. That would eliminate most "moral" con-servatives from serving this country.

[Dhalgren]

6. It was forced into the political sphere by General Pace, the Chairman of the JCS.

Now it is a question that needs to be addressed. If a public figure like Pace can make that statement and there is no loud cry for his removal - and from Democrats especially - then there really isn't a lot of difference between the parties when it comes to equal rights for all citizens. Where does Clinton stand on Jim Crow - or is that "a question for someone else to answer"...

[pnwmom]

12. You're right. He should be condemned for those remarks, and removed

from his position.

[cassiepriam]

9. Bingo. When will they stop persecuting gays?

It is barbaric to treat any group this way.

[bigtree]

16. It's just a way for Pace to separate himself from folks who he thinks are beneath him

He ended up looking like scum instead