Here are 10 simple and startling facts about the economy to share with your friends and family....

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/16/161212/902/214/600835

10 Simple and Startling Economic Facts

by DukeDem

Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 01:21:22 PM PDT

On January 20, 2001 the Dow Jones Industrial Average closed at 10,588 -- today it closed up at 11,059. That’s an annual return of about 0.5 percent. Think about that for a minute – that’s far lower than what you could have earned in a savings account and doesn’t even come close to keeping up with inflation. By contrast the DJIA more than tripled under Clinton (from 3,241 to 10,588).

While the stagnation of the stock market is one of most obvious signs that George W. Bush has run the economy into the ground, it is only the tip of the iceberg. Simply put, the Bush economy has been far worse than the Clinton economy on every important measure - jobs, income growth, budget deficits, gas prices, inflation, manufacturing jobs, poverty, unemployment, the value of the dollar, inflation, the stock market, home foreclosures, economic growth, and health insurance coverage.

Here are 10 simple and startling facts about the economy to share with your friends and family....

DukeDem's diary :: ::

1. Jobs: The economy has produced one-fourth the number of new jobs (5.7 million) under Bush as it did under Clinton (21 million).

2. Manufacturing Jobs: The country lost nearly 4 million manufacturing jobs under Bush (down from 17.3 to 13.4 million). The number of manufacturing jobs grew under Clinton (from 16.8 to 17.3 million!

3. Income: Many measures of real income have fallen under Bush – for example, real per-capita income is down about $100. By contrast, real-per capita income rose by more than $5,400 under Clinton.

4. Economic Growth: Having grown by nearly 4 percent during Clinton’s, the economy has grown by an average of only 2 percent during Bush’s term. So much for the fiction that tax cuts for the wealthy are the key to economic growth.

5. Budget Deficit/Surplus: For Bush’s last year in office, the White House currently projects a budget deficit of $389 billion for 2008 and this was before the current economic turmoil. In contrast, Clinton produced a $236 billion surplus in his last year in office. That’s a turn for the worse of more than $600 billion per year.

6. Gas Prices: The average price of a gallon of gas on the day George Bush took office: $1.45. Today: $3.87.

7.Unemployment Rate: Unemployment is up to 6.1 percent in August 2008 and likely to rise much higher in the coming months. It was 4.2 percent in January 2001 when G. W. Bush took office.

8. Poverty: After declining precipitously under Clinton (down by 25 percent), poverty is again on the rise under Bush (up more than 10 percent).

9. Dollar: On the day George W. Bush took office, a dollar bought 1.07 Euros. Today you’d get 0.70 Euros. That’s a loss of a third of the value of the dollar under Bush.

10. Inflation: After nearly twenty years of stable prices, inflation is back with a bang as Bush leaves office. In the past twelve months, inflation has risen sharply to 5.7 percent. During Clinton’s presidency, inflation averaged 2.6 percent.

[liberal N proud]

1. Be sure to include the details and sources at the bottom

[tama]

2. Garbage

The official stats are fraudulent pollyanna numbers, US economy is a huge bubble of self-deception (including the Clinton years):

http://www.chrismartenson.com/fuzzy_numbers

[NNN0LHI]

3. Um you are linking to a Ron Paul supporter are you nuts?

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=Martenson&fname=Chris

[tama]

4. I don't know

and I don't care who the guy supports. It's what he says is important to understand.

Are you nuts enough to believe the official pollyanna numbers?

[NNN0LHI]

5. You don't care that you are linking to a guy who supports a racist asshole?

That says a lot more about you than you think.

Don

[Duppers]

7. yes, he's a racist asshole but does that negate economic facts?

However, I'd try to find some other source too.

[tama]

9. Other source

http://www.shadowstats.com/

The cooking of books has been discussed on DU Stock Market -thread for years and years.

[NNN0LHI]

10. I have to pay $175.00 to read it?

Why don't you just post the data that says my OP is incorrect?

Don

[tama]

12. There's

loads of free info. I haven't payed myself and won't pay for the other stuff.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Well just cut and paste the pertinent info here then

[tama]

15. Nope n/t

[NNN0LHI]

16. Thanks for playing

[tama]

19. This is not a game n/t

[JNelson6563]

23. It's really too bad

When you mentioned the Marketeers have long been skeptical of Gov numbers, you had my attention, I am in that crowd.

However, where you faltered was your attitude. If I disputed facts that were posted I wouldn't consider it complete with just a few smart ass comments but I'd provide evidence that counters what I am contesting. It's the grown up way of it. Oh and just posting a link doesn't really count, it's just as lazy and useless as snarky comments sans evidence. As Don said "thanks for playing", even though you didn't play nicely or productively.

Julie

[tama]

24. True

we all get tired, from time to time. Especially when poured pee on.

And there is no real data or even close to copy-paste (at least free), it's not that ready-made world, attempts for even a fuzzy understanding take real effort and study. The video that I gave link to provides the most easy info for the video generation, if one is willing to watch it then we can discuss further. But understanding what this is all about is more important than ever.

What I really think and feel is that the sick culture of mass-individualism leads to personilizing all issues, to personal rivalry and personal attacks and hinders effectively efforts for deeper and more fruitfull understanding, all debate and art of being right instead of dialogue.

Best, tama (too poor to afford personhood)

[JHB]

21. Google "Pollyanna Creep" n/t

[Duppers]

11. thanks and yes, I know they've been cooking the books for yrs.

Thanks for the new source.

However, DO YOU BASICALLY DISAGREE with the comparisons the OP made?

[tama]

14. No

"However, DO YOU BASICALLY DISAGREE with the comparisons the OP made?"

No, just pointing that it is actually much worse than the official numbers lead to believe - and that Clinton was not innocent either for this situation.

[ProfessorGAC]

17. Hardly The Impression Your First Post Gave

It would seem you're vehemently agreeing with Don. You're suggesting it's even worse than Don is stating. That's doesn't make what he said "garbage". It means it's as bad as he said, at the very best.
The Professor

[tama]

18. The "garbage"

referred to the official numbers, as was evident from the rest of the post. Could have been expressed better, of course.

[ProfessorGAC]

22. That's All I Said

By the way: I agree with you about the official numbers. It's takes a lot of mining to get the real conditions, or you need to model the economy statistically to get a more accurate picture over the course of years.
The Professor

[tama]

25. Being just a dilletante

and not having time etc. for mining all the way or money to buy the data from shadowstats, is there any source available for numbers that would be comparative and meaningfull, accepting the general fuzzines of everything?

[ProfessorGAC]

28. Sure.

I have a subscription to the Statistical Abstract Of The United States database. But, every library in the country has a copy of that book. It takes some plowing through it to find the bits of information you need, but you can get pretty much anything from that book. It has LOADS of econometric data, broken down all the way to industrial segments. Most of the data is reported on a quarterly or monthly basis (some of it is only yearly, but not much.)

You can find the elements that make up what used to M3. You can look up all kinds of stuff about instataneous cash flows in the macroeconomy.

It's certainly a lot easier to do it with the database (and a whole lot faster ). Lots of college libraries have a subscription to this database (it's generally referred to as "sauce" as in SAUS). If you live near a uni, they probably will let you use their access.
The Professor

[Duppers]

20. that's a distinct difference than just saying 'garbage'

Thanks for the clarification.

[tama]

8. Attacking me

must be very comfortable, must kill the messanger before belief system questioned.

It's just a link to a video explaining quite well how the books are cooked and how the official numbers about US economy are self deception, nothing about your projections about racist assholes.

Watch it or shut up.

[Imperialism Inc.]

26. Adolf Hitler was the one that got the German Autobahn project off the ground.

Does that make all freeway systems inherently bad and wrong? I'm sorry but your objection is a logical fallacy. Ron Paul is a racist... this guy supports him... therefore everything he says on unrelated subjects is wrong.... HUH??

There are plenty of progressive activists and economists who think the same thing. That the economic stats are not on the up and up.

[NNN0LHI]

27. Lay down with dogs and you get fleas

Its been that way forever.

Anyone that supports a nut like Ron Paul has a huge credibility problem right off the get go as do the people who defend him.

Thats just the way it works.

Don

[Duppers]

6. the devastation is so bad that it'll take years, if not decades,

to recover.

Obama and the country will have a tough time dealing with the economic situation inherited from Bush and his cronies. We need to tell our rethug acquaintances this because I anticipate a major whining coming from the rightwing after Obama takes office. Just wait.


K & R, btw.

[OakCliffDem]

29. I cannot wait until the end of the Bush Administration. n/t