Why is Obama not 20 POINTS AHEAD?

[Jack_Dawson]

Could there be a better time to run for president as a Dem? Yet, here we are neck and neck with John McCain and a total no-name whose entire act is avoiding the media while taking cheap shots followed by "stop picking on me!" Are we that fucking inept we can't blow these idiots out of the water?

AND, Keith Olbermann - my one link to sanity - has been replaced by the very milquetoast David Gregory. WTF.



:argh:
:grr:

[Jackpine Radical]

1. Why? I'll tell you why.

This country is still a fucked-up, racist pigsty, that's why.

[katty]

26. precisely!

[alphaq]

35. I agree completely. Country is full of racists not giving Obama props

[MissDeeds]

71. I agree completely

Unfortunately, some of them vote.

[slackmaster]

75. I'm afraid JP might be essentially correct here

:argh:

[babylonsister]

2. It's the media, silly. And guess whose side they're on for the most part? nt

[ColbertWatcher]

19. "guess whose side they're on"? Their owners? The GOP. n/t

[FiveGoodMen]

23. I agree with you, but even more-so with Jackpine

The media feeds the worst of America's appetites, but the racism, exceptionalism, arrogance, blind faith in nonesense...these are more than just (recent) media creations.

As individuals, Americans are all over the board, but as a group they are the devil. So damned sure that the world was made just for them (used to be called Manifest Destiny) that mass murder seems perfectly reasonable as long as they do it.

I'm afraid that no politician is going to save us. We really are just that bad.

[Jackpine Radical]

39. And I agree with Babylon Sister.

America is a racist pigsty of a fascist Corporate State, and the boobtoob serves the worst aspects of the whole mess.

[SammyWinstonJack]

77. Not ours, that's for sure. Just like they weren't in 2000 and 2004.

[MarjorieG]

3. "WTF" duly noted. Let's decompress a while, though I feel like your animation.

[Double T]

4. The MSM stood BO up on a pedestal;, NOW the RW MSM is shutting him down.

This has been the MSM plan from the beginning.

[babylonsister]

24. The Wright, Rezko, flagpin, patriotism issues were balanced on pedestals?

Your memory is different than mine.

[Double T]

29. Overall BO had tons of exposure and support from all segments of the MSM.

While some believe BO walks on water, the rest of US know he has skeletons in his closet. Overall BO's exposure by the MSM was positive. Even bad press is a lot better than no press at all.

[babylonsister]

31. Yes, he had lots of press, most of it negative. And what skeletons

do you know about that no one else could find? Inquiring minds do want to know.

[Double T]

36. You already mentioned a few of them.

[babylonsister]

40. What? All have been thoroughly rehashed. LInk to any skeletons, or

are you just blowing smoke, hoping for a scandal that's not there? Sorry, but if the m$m couldn't inspire some ghosts, I doubt you can.

[harun]

63. I disagree. They did everything they could to get Hillary in there. They

wanted the Hillary drama 24x7.

[Double T]

66. Completely disagree. HRC was ignored while BO was ALWAYS given the microphone.

What MSM were YOU watching and listening to?

[harun]

74. I saw a lot more Hillary people on the networks than Obama people

Hillary was a bigger sell for the media than Obama because of all her drama and the history of Bill. They wanted to see her fight it out with the Repubs. She is also DLC and they know she wouldn't mess with the Corporate Media's mega monopolies. The people trumped the medias choice by picking Obama in the primaries and the people will trump the medias choice in November by picking Obama then too.

[SammyWinstonJack]

78. Bingo! He was the nominee they needed. Very devious of them, don't you think?

x( Hope it backfires on them. :evilgrin:

[Beregond2]

5. KO has only been replaced

as a debate moderator, where he had no business being in the first place. He brought up the issue himself.

[Jack_Dawson]

14. No - it's as ANCHOR

Meaning, he and Chris Matthews, who I actually thought worked very well...will now be relegated to talking head status. Guess they didn't want K.O. calling swing states on election night. I swear to fucking God I feel like I'm going crazy. Please tell me the idiots don't WIN AGAIN!

:beer:

[man4allcats]

6. My own view is that

here in Amurka, stupid rules.

[sniffa]

7. The reason: he didn't hire me as his campaign adviser

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6990483

[FLAprogressive]

8. MSM + Racism = Closeness at the polls

[...of J.Temperance]

13. MSM yes, racism not so sure

Polls in various European countries, France, Germany have shown that Obama would win with like 80% of the vote there.

There's plenty of racists in France and Germany, yet they DON'T prevent Obama getting 80% in their respective polls.

It's the fucking Media, they're whoring for McCain JUST like they whored for W....the media are up the GOPs ass, they are the enemy, they are NOT on our side it's perfectly obvious and has been for years.

[Ahpook]

45. I can only guess we (Americans) are going to get screwed again at the polls?

But it's coming unless Americans can stop it?

[...of J.Temperance]

9. It's the Media Whores propaganda and The Man Behind The Curtain pulling the MSM strings

n/t

[Codeine]

10. Because polls are unreliable.

Because not everyone's as liberal as us.

Because Palin has energized the 'Puke base.

Because McCain is getting a convention bounce.

Because the PUMAs are poisoning the well.

Lots of reasons, none of which spell anything like disaster.

Remember young voters. Remember Obama's ground game, the one that defeated Clinton. Remember 87,000 people in a stadium joined as one.

We can win this shit, but only if we want it. If we want it we'll quit crying like pasty-faced children and work our asses off. Let's do this shit! :)

[Jack_Dawson]

20. Thanks I was in dire need of a pep talk

I still need one. But every little bit helps.

I just wish Obama was hitting back HARD! I feel like I'm being Swiftboated by my inferiors all over again.

:beer:

[emulatorloo]

34. New Obama ad says Palin and McCain are "LYING about there records" = see here:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/new_obama_ad_palins_bridgetono.php

[Jack_Dawson]

41. I like it

Now can they run it a million times in 50/50 smart states?

[ObamaKerryDem]

28. Best post of the day. :D

The head to head matchup polls are all over the place, lol. BUT we are still ahead in most of them and that's not what matters anyway...it's the state by state, which the last time I checked, Obama was still doing better in. (In fact, I saw Chuck Todd put Pennsylvania officially in the 'Lean Obama' category during the news this morning. And they said he couldn't win it just because Hillary did? :eyes: LOL...) PLUS I still say the youth AND the newly registered vote isn't being accurately counted in this (Heck, I've never been asked to participate in any of these things and I'm 22 and a college student, part of the typical youth vote demographic. Plus I don't have a landline, only a cellphone, which is the case with many people my age..) Besides, I'd rather Obama get UNDERestimated a bit every now and again so whenever he is down along the way, it won't seem as big of a deal. Better the other side get their 'bounce' now than later...

We're still going to win this one. ;)

[secondwind]

11. unfortunately, there are still ignorant folks out there who prefer only white meat

sad, but true.




:puke:

[cobalt1999]

12. Think of it this way...

We nominated a northern first term senator who is also African-American (normally a lethal combination in a national election) BUT we are still even after their Republican convention poll bounce.

This is their high water mark and they STILL couldn't get much if any lead.

[Kutjara]

15. I've been wondering the same thing.

I think it comes down to three possibilities:

(1) The polls are fabricated in order to give the appearance of a close race, so that the media can make loads of cash in the run up to the "photo finish."
(2) America really is a nation of stupid, self-absorbed, religion-obsessed, hate-filled racists who would no sooner elect a black "liberul" President as cut off their own heads.
(3) That the polls are just one part of a carefully orchestrated GOP strategy for stealing yet another election.

Take your pick. I think all three are working to some extent.

[madokie]

16. Before I read any others replies I'll give you mine

I think it is possible with polls to show whatever numbers one wants if the mission is that. Its all in how the question is posed/framed.

[Qutzupalotl]

17. TPTB are desperate.

Two constitutional law scholars going over the Bush records with a fine-toothed comb? You BET they're shitting their drawers! They will stop at nothing to keep Obama down and prop McCain up.

[spooked]

64. That's it EXACTLY!!

They need more than just a few months to hide the evidence of 8 years of criminal activity!!

[tableturner]

18. Why? Because we are afraid to attack them with the truth!

They attack us with lies relentlessly and we take the high road, letting our asses get kicked.

[lapfog_1]

21. For fifty years there has been an organized campaign

to dumb down America. Anti-intellectualism is rampant. Objective met. Add in a corporate controlled media which is actively catapulting the propaganda 24 x 7, and you have a situation where an old guy with a record of flip flops worthy of a slinky taking the staircase at the empire state building and a bimbo (sorry ladies, but she is) loser beauty queen who believes in creationism and end-times and does not believe in global warming is tied with a ticket headed by someone like Barack Obama.

[spanone]

22. because he's not.....

[Junkdrawer]

25. A. He probably was. B. The Corporate Media Complex would NEVER acknowledge that.

C. With a steady diet of "Your neighbors LOVE McCain", many of your neighbors will change their minds.

[live love laugh]

79. Bingo. And he is STILL way ahead but we will never know it. nt

[PM Martin]

27. I know.

This is sad.
I thought there were generic polls showing Democrats 10+ points ahead.
What happened?

[Codeine]

32. generic polls are meaningless.

Party faithful like you and I are not the norm. Many voters are interested in the personality of the candidates; thus "Maverick," "Change," "Reformer," etc.

Remember "Reagan Democrats?" Voters like that make generic party polls less than useless.

[shadowknows69]

30. The press and the polls are being gamed

Or there really are that many stupid Americans, in which case we're fucked.

[Doug.Goodall]

33. The Main Stream Media is doctoring the poll to make it seem much closer than it really is

If they told the truth that Obama is 10% ahead of McCain, the Republicans would just turn off their televisions.

Drop in viewers = drop in ratings = drop in advertising = less money for the MSM.

[JVS]

37. Because we're afraid of offending people.

The republican party doesn't care how many people they insult, as long as it isn't the majority.

[liberalpragmatist]

38. Open-Seat Races are rarely blowouts

You see it all the time at the state level and in many national elections too; even when the incumbent party is unpopular, the two candidates are often very close so long as no incumbent is running.

1960's a great example -- Ike wasn't anywhere near as unpopular as Bush, but his approval ratings weren't that impressive in 1960, and the Republicans nationally had suffered major losses in '58. Yet Nixon very nearly beat Kennedy.

Also, McCain is the most popular Republican in the country and far more popular than his party. A lot of this is from his reputation as a moderate from Bush's first term. And don't forget that he was the most popular politician in the country throughout much of this decade. With favorables like that, it's not shocking that he's close.

My guess is that Obama would be blowing Bush out of the water. Romney would be losing comfortably and Huckabee would be losing in a landslide. No Republican but McCain would have kept it this close.

And can't ignore "concerns" about Obama. Many independents and moderates are genuinely concerned about his relative inexperience.

Finally, you can't ignore the elephant in the room, which is race. Obama is black and that hurts him, especially in several swing states and in national polls in the South.

I still think it'll be an Obama win, but the 1960 parallel could prove itself pretty valid. Despite the Republicans' unpopularity that year, voters were concerned about Kennedy's inexperience, while others saw him as "too smooth" and "aloof," and many felt Nixon was far more qualified to handle national security and the Cold War. AND, Kennedy's Catholicism cost him MANY votes.

[Art_from_Ark]

65. I agree

You have summed it up very succinctly

[moondust]

42. delete

[mace77]

43. Things to overcome

The Battleground Poll indicates

- 9% are very liberal
- 29% are mostly liberal
- 3% are moderate
- 20% are very conservative
- 40% are mostly conservative

Barack must grab the moderates and convince 10% of the right
of center to come over. 

[AllieB]

62. There are many more Democratic voters than Republican ones.

The Battleground poll doesn't reflect America.

[ms liberty]

44. Because we haven't had the debates yet...

Because the media wants it to be a "close race."

Because the right owns the corporations that report the news and conduct the polls.

And because some Americans are frighteningly stupid, and abysmally ignorant.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jack_Dawson]

49. LOL...why can't trolls EVER spell?

They really are stupider than everyone else.

[tjwash]

50. Wouldn't you be happier commenting at youtube, or 4chan?

[Captiosus]

47. Because it's not in the MSM's interest.

A blowout race means less people paying attention.

A close race means more people watching, more advertising sales, more advertising revenue and more money in the coffers of the people who own the media outlets.

Like I, and others, have said: Polls are meaningless.
They ask an absurdly small reference amount and they can be framed easily.

I'll put it in a pop culture context:
There's a new Metallica album coming out Sept. 12th.
If I were to conduct a poll of 1500 people on September 12 asking if people prefer Metallica or Megadeth, making sure to ask people who were in/near music stores and big box stores which also sell music, and making sure to include the key demographic (16-40 year olds, male more than female, but both), what do you think the poll will suggest?

[frogmarch]

48. Need you really ask?

It's because the USA is full of Jesus-was-white, born-again RACIST ASSHOLES, of course!

[hunter]

51. People ass backwards to the future are more likely to answer their phones.

A lot of people don't have land lines anymore, and more and more people don't bother to answer random calls from strangers.

[Jack_Dawson]

67. LOL - love it

Hope you're right.

:toast:

[stillcool]

52. Who knows?

The only thing I know is that I will do whatever I can to get Obama elected which is less than 2 months away. After that...

[doc03]

53. Well a lot of people aren't going to like this. Obama won

the Democratic primary by playing to the more liberal wing of the Democratic party. Hillary thought she had the primary locked up last year and campaigned for the GE instead. Example, Obama opposed the Iraq war and beat up Hillary because she voted for IWR that worked with Democrats. It's the GE now and he has to defend his opposition to the Surge. Never mind if he wouldn't have gotten us in the war in the first place people perceive the surge is working in Iraq and we are winning so now people think if it was up to Obama we would have lost the war. The American public has as very short memory, if the price of gas goes below $3.00 people will be buying SUV's in droves not thinking that it will go up again. I think Obama would ahve been better off picking Hillary as his running mate. A couple months ago people didn't so, they thought she would fire up the right wing base of the Republican party. So they run Sarah Palin and she fires up the right wing even more than Hillary would have and also she is going to hand McCain swing states such as Ohio because she will attract women voters, young people and rednecks.

[JustAnotherGen]

56. So how do we make up

For lost ground in Ohio? What states do we go to?

Ironically - I'm an Edward's supporter. I like Kucinich's p.o.v. too - if you ask me? Obama/Clinton were the Corporate Dems. Middle of the roaders singing Kumbayah.

But, that said, we haven't unleashed big dog yet. And there is no way in hell big dog is going to let THAT woman steal Hillary's blood, sweat and tears. No way. No how.

[doc03]

58. I think it will be extremly hard unless somehow we

knock out Palin. Maybe the Enquirer can do it for us, other than that I don't have a clue.

[JustAnotherGen]

59. I've got an idea

I've volunteered to both canvass in PA and drive people to the poll on Election day . . . I'm in NJ.

I used to be a sort-of-stepmom - wait.

Scratch that. Hockey Stepmom. You know the difference between me and Sarah Palin? I'm willing to leave my blood on the ice.

This chippy from Alaska CANNOT be allowed to take the glory of higher office away from US. That emasculating little beotch needs to be taken down. Oh - and ohhhhhhhhhh yes. I'm a woman.


She's dangerous. Get off your ass and do something.

Let me share with you the story of J. J was my one of my step sons. He almost drowned in our pool once. We all sat there frozen as he just sunk. Kid didn't even fight it.

We all jumped in after a few seconds.

Breathe deep. And jump in. Save yourself from these two tools. :rofl: I'll be damned if I'm not jumping in and/or leaving my blood on the ice and letting these wads win.

[Jack_Dawson]

68. Big Dog rolled over

The Clintons have gone underground. :beer:

[JustAnotherGen]

54. Relax

Dukakis was ahead by 18 points.

18.

Not quite 20 - but 18.

Relax.

I remember that at times like these. Honestly? I'd be far more concerned if he WAS 20 points ahead. I think the country is split 50/50 - but the electoral maps are going our way.

I also think McCain/Palin is going to crash/burn. They are doing NOW what Obama was going through in December 2007 and January/February of this year. Mccain is a 'known' - but Palin is not. And she was NOT vetted.

Oh - and Palin is going to be in video on Countdown in a few minutes showing her dominionist ass. :rofl:

[madrchsod]

55. he`s up 7-10 points

[Jack_Dawson]

69. Who's running that poll? The Nation?

:beer:

[alarimer]

57. I think it is likely that a number of people say they will vote for Obama NOW

But in the voting booth, they will not. This is an unknown quantity but I believe it could result in McCain winning.

[Codeine]

61. That's the only thing that scares me. nt

[Nevernose]

60. He's black.

That's the elephant in the room - and if anyone says anything about the many, many racists in this country, they're "playing the race card."

[The Gunslinger]

70. 1 reason

The fascist MSM.

[jeffrey_X]

72. because the media would lose. not close = not interesting

play the game

[pipoman]

73. 2 positions

1. Hammering away at gun control, promising a new improved 'assault weapons ban'

2. No plan for relieving the blue collar and rural plight imposed by the trade agreements from the 1990's

[Alter Ego]

76. The media wants their horse race.

That's how they make money.

And I'm really fucking sick of hearing this--blowouts of 10 points or more do not fucking HAPPEN in the Information Age.