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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:28 AM
Original message
a drive-by rant* regarding the perception of protestors at the DNC....
Edited on Tue Aug-26-08 08:31 AM by mike_c
I'm shocked and disappointed by the degree of disdain many DUers have shown toward the leftist protesters at the Democratic National Convention. Folks are acting like the left should be falling all over itself with gratitude for the democratic party instead of being angry to the point of public demonstration.

There are a couple of points that need to be made. First and foremost, rather than spoiling the show, like someone pissing during the Olympic opening ceremony, protesters at the DNC are exercising their rights-- the same rights that help define what it is to be an American, and the rights that the democratic party ostensibly recognizes as fundamental to political activity in this country. One DUer in a recent thread was so angry about this that he/she suggested that America should treat its dissidents like the Chinese, and "lock them all up." That was a DUer with a reasonable post count too, not some visiting disruptor.

The more compelling point, I think, is that the democratic party has variously ignored the left, used the left, been dishonest with the left, and generally failed the left for at least the last thirty years that I've been paying attention. Folks who think leftists shouldn't be demonstrating at the DNC because the DNC supports liberal ideals need to step back and take a long, honest look at democratic politics and democratic leadership during the last few decades. The party happily counts on our votes-- I mean, what alternatives do we really have?-- while utterly ignoring the reforms necessary to give the left some satisfaction. I won't list them here-- my laundry list is not likely to be representative of everyone else's on the left and debating specific issues isn't the point of this post anyway-- but no one expects the republican party to represent our interests, so that leaves the democrats, who might give some minimal lip service to progressive reforms, but who have consistently dropped the ball for as long as I can remember.

Leftists demonstrate at the DNC because it's the democrats who have failed the left in this country, despite broad public sympathy for many core progressive issues. It is the democratic party whose wholesale corporatist sell out betrays the left time after time after time.

Whether you agree with these sentiments or not, try to recognize that folks demonstrating in Denver this week, Code Pink, Recreate 68, "anarchists" and grandparents alike, are exercising their rights as Americans to express their disappointment with a party that has largely disenfranchised them and denied them a voice on the podium, even while using them to achieve ends antithetical to progressive ideals.

Rather than reviling them, we should stand with them. We should be thankful they have the courage to travel to Denver and raise their voices. :patriot:


This is a "drive-by rant" because I'm late for work, and won't be checking back for several hours, at least.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. All well & good.
But the protesters getting airplay are all PUMAS & other RW GOP plants.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Actually not
Perhaps in different areas, but I've also heard the media talking with the real deal also. I realize that media perception is quite important, but don't let the media define and delineate who can protest at a political convention. Media be damned, the people of this country have the right to protest, and frankly they should do so more often.
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Bob Dobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Manure.
You don't know what you are talking about.

They are young people who do believe in progressive causes.

The confrontation with police near Civic Center Park last night was started by the police pepper spraying people for no real reason.

The police have been fed absurd "intelligence" that the anarchists have "stockpiled weapons" downtown and are itching to use their high tech equipment, so the situation is tense.

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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. hmmm. sound like the plan to recreate 68 is right on track. it was police,
of course, who started the trouble here in chicago, not the protesters.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. AMEN!!!
Thanks for so putting the same thoughts I had so succinctly and forcefully. Have a great day!
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm all for it....It's their right....
I may not agree with them that this is the best forum, the best time, or the most effective approach but I don't endorse anyone telling them they shouldn't be doing this.
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apnu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. I have no problem with the protests, what I have a problem with ...
... is the corporate whore media trying to stir the pot and incite conflict within the party, or (and just as bad) ridicule them.

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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. I think that our disappointment this time around has many fronts.
And your right this country was made better and stronger by those who spoke up for things that matter. I'm grateful for everyone who participates in making this country a better place for all of us to live.
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Bob Dobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. The actions planned for St. Paul will be far more provacative.
Plus, the compact layout of the city and the natural boundaries of the rivers and bridges will give protesters more opportunities to cause real disruptions of the RNC.

The protests in Denver have been street theater, in St. Paul there will be real battles.
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jtrockville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. Look what happened to the GOP.
Non-corrupt conservatives did nothing while their party deteriorated into the state it's in now. I don't want to see the same thing (to any degree) happen to our party.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. DUers only like protests against republicans, I do believe
when many of them would go to DC for war protests or were cheering on the protesters they were , in their head, protesting republicans and not really the war itself. I guarantee if their is a huge war protest after Obama becomes president you will see many here dissing the protesters just as nastily as the freepers dissed us under Bush. Many actually think Democrats are "the left"(:rofl:). Democrats can be blamed for much of what is bad going on despite what the cognitive dissonance suffering DUers might believe.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. After the election, DU is going to change dramatically.
The one thing that holds this place together is a desire to get democrats elected.
After the election, that common goal will have ended, either in success or failure.
Either way, the presidency will be run by right-wing authoritarians.

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. No, if Obama becomes president and doesn't get us out of Iraq...
...then DUers will support protests during his presidency.

Protests at the Democratic Convention now may not be considered good timing.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
11. I'm not sure that I stand with them, but I respect their right to protest
Edited on Tue Aug-26-08 08:58 AM by Marrah_G
We should all be far more protective about our most important rights.

The right to speak out against or for those who represent us. Even if you do not like what they are saying, you MUST respect their right to voice that opinion.

Otherwise... someday...you might find that yours is the voice being silenced.
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KarenS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. Well said and I agree with you!! K&R !! n/t
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. fred phelps is agitating
the "protesters". far worse than the ditto heads are.

Ditto heads and phelps phaggots, (my term) they are the assholes who go to military funerals founded after Mathew Shepperd s murder in Wyoming. Holding signs saying "Faggots go to hell". Burn Matthew burn etc.)

they are the ones really starting to agitate those Leftists...

Cops in the middle gassing everyone.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
15. FYI: This ain't the 60's
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks to the protesters for being there.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
18. we complain that people aren't willing to flood the
streets with every outrage we have endured--and yet, when we see some indominable spirits doing just that, many show disdain. It happened with Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, Code Pink, 9-11 truthers and everyone else who shows a bit of initiative. I am really amazed that more people don't recognize their own hypocrisy.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. kick for the evening crowd....
:kick:
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. Here here. I am equally disgusted, Thanks for the well-needed rant. nt
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. Right on!
It has been very disappointing to see DUers say the protesters should shut up and sit down. Being quiet and letting the right stomp all over us is a sure fire way of accomplishing NOTHING.

Way too many status quo people here.

Recommend.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. It's not the leftists that I have a problem with. It's the
anarchists with their red bandannas covering their faces .. out to just cause shit for the hell of it.

That's a help to no one.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Not everyone with a bandana is an anarchist.
Plenty are regular folks who want some protection from tear gas and surveillance. There are a lot of folks, especially young folks who prefer not to have their faces stored forever in law enforcement databases.
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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. What does everyone have against anarchists?
I don't understand it...
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I'd start but I'd need a banjo before rattling off the reasons
Edited on Tue Aug-26-08 08:57 PM by YOY
Our wing's version of some of the kookier provocative fascists.

Granted I'll take them any day over skinheads.

My gripe: Our constitution protect peaceful protests. Anarchists as a small minority show up uninvited, break that peace, and ruin the protests for everyone. Cops proceed to have a fascist field day...
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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. So how's that democratic government working out for you?
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. So hows that anarchic system gonna work out for us?
n/t
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
27. An excellent rant. K&R
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
29. The democratic party is no longer "left". It is as "right" as the republican party now.
:puke:

Also-Great post, btw. :applause:
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
30. You bring the spirit of truth
Thanks for this. The "protesters" are the ones in the real world.

We're in Iraq. 2.0 million or more are dead, including 50,000 plus US wounded and 4,000 (way plus, no
doubt) dead.

We're seeing our party vote to fund Iraq.

We're in the precipice of the destruction of the planet.

We're seeing amazing new scientific solutions to both energy and environmental problems.

These issues are NOT addressed with URGENCY by the party hierarchy, the "leaders."

Those not protesting are the object of curiosity but not disdain. They're either ignorant or
afraid.

The great tradition of revolutionary social change from the Declaration of Independence to
the Civil War and forward through the various movements to expand the franchise (voting and living)
for everyone, is based on PROTEST, AGITATION, and saying THIS MUST CHANGE.

It was the founding heroes who protested before the Revolutionary war. They were targeted for
hanging by the British Crown, hanging, yet they protested.

The story goes on. The movement most go on, both through individuals and informal groups deciding
there's been enough denial and bull shit to organized groups.

Great post. I tried to put you on my 'buddy list' but you were already there. Figures.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
31. Don't confuse having a right to do something with being right to do it.
I strongly agree that left-wingers or anyone else is within their rights to protest at the Democratic convention.

But I think that it's a really stupid way to promote left-wing causes.
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