*RACIAL QUESTION FOR DEBATE'S SAKE*

[Counciltucky]

If the "separate but equal" test implied in Plessy v. Ferguson was actually truly and fully instituted according to the spirit of the law -- i.e. truly equal facilities for both whites and non-whites -- would it ever have been overturned in Brown v. Board of Education, and would the issue even have come to that point?

Please discuss.

[Prophet 451]

1. I doubt it

I think there would still have been a great deal of ill-feeling but I doubt it would have come to the boiling point it reached with Brown.

[noamnety]

2. There IS no separate but equal.

If you are denied access to something because of your skin color, that isn't "equal."

[MADem]

3. Succinctly stated and right on the mark. NT

[mojowork_n]

4. On what planet would this have taken place?

Oh, that's right, that sci-fi story with the fish people (living underwater, never needing to come up for air), and the bird tribe, up in the sky.

Honestly, when the whole point of the system is to "separate", to create isolation -- and the 'but' underscores that, both grammatically and rhetorically -- what else could you possibly expect?

[Solo_in_MD]

5. Your question is theoretrical since in that environment there could never have been

separate but equal. While some say sepearte by equal is immpossible, it is the goal of Title IX to achive that in athletics and elsewhere.

A more interesting point is that there is some legitimate research that shows the genders learn better apart. Be interesting to see how that matures.

[mojowork_n]

10. A focused learning environment for a guided, small group

is even less comparable to a complete, diverse, total population -- a whole society. Don't take the sci-fi analogy too seriously, I just meant to say that if you really did have complete 'separation', what sort of 'equality' could you possibly expect?

[stranger81]

6. If you take Brown seriously, then a resounding YES

separate but equal is no equality at all -- read the Supreme Court's opinion.

[NoGOPZone]

7. Brown specifically stated the seperate facilities were INHERENTLY unequal

so yes, it would have been overturned.

[On the Road]

8. That is an Excellent Question

and the answer is "probably not." Social justice is always inspired by injustice.

Brown was absolutely the right decision. But the most often quoted rationale "separate is not equal" taken by itself is ridiculous. I think what they meant to say was "in the current situation, the races are not equal and intergration will help remedy that," or "if segregation continues, it is not reasonable to expect equality to emerge," or "the Plessey constuction of 'separate but equal' is a casuistic way of justifying inequality." But they don't make as memorable a phrase.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Justice and "legal" are not necessarily the same. In this case justice triumphed.

We still live in a society riddled with injustice that is nevertheless "legal".

An example:

A man who is a dishwasher and makes $12,000 a year is stopped for speeding and fined $50.

A man who is employed as a CEO of a large company and makes $500,000 a year is stopped for speeding and fined $50.

They are equally guilty and equally fined. But, is it "justice"?

The dishwasher may not be able to pay his rent.

The CEO won't even have to skip a lunch.

[Nikki Stone1]

12. $50 for speeding? What state do you live in?

Tickets here START at over $100

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Beats me, I usually don't speed. Well, I haven't been caught for a long time.

[fortyfeetunder]

11. Having seen it first-hand, no way.

I was a little kid (I think maybe 1st-2nd grade)from the north visiting a relative down south, when a cousin needed to see a dentist. And we went the dentist in some neighboring town. Guessing it was just before 1965.

There were two waiting rooms for the same dentist. The white one was air conditioned, door closed, and there were nice comfortable seats. The black one was an un-airconditioned room, not even a screen door to keep the flies out, and there were wooden benches to sit on.

It was a no brainer to this young'un there was no equality in this dentist's office.

I heard more than enough stories about the lack of facilities for education, medical care and other services for my ancestors. After I saw it first hand, I knew the concept of "separate but equal" was an effing scam.

It's made me the cynical old fart I am today....