Vietnam Veterans Against McCain: McCain Lost Five U.S. Navy Aircraft

[Hissyspit]

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mccain_lost_five_u.htm

McCain lost five U.S. Navy aircraft.

Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft.

His father John S. "Junior" McCain was commander of U.S. forces in Europe later becoming commander of American forces in Vietnam while McCain III was being held prisoner of war. McCain III's grandfather John S. McCain, Sr. commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945.

During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.

Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale's Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."

McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.

McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."

McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.

Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.

McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.

McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.

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[msongs]

1. he's no war hero: failed his mission, lost his plane, allowed himself to be captured. all off limits

in this campaing because mccain is gonna flog obama with it


Msongs

[Thothmes]

17. So all of those bomber pilots

that were shot down over Germany and Japan and allowed themselves to be captured also failed their missions.

[Mike Daniels]

18. What's keeping these veterans from coming out to the media to hit McCain on his record

I can see why Obama would avoid directly attacking McCain's record/performance.

However, given that the Repubs were more than fine with fellow vets slamming Kerry's record why shouldn't Obama's campaign give this group free reign to come out in the media and expose McCain's failures.

If the Repubs and media want to scream about that all you need to do is point out they didn't have an issue with it in 2004.

[UTUSN]

2. K&R #2 for, Shhhhhh!1 Not everybody here wants to note McPLANE's military record!1 n/t

[speedoo]

3. So the Navy got 5+ missions out of him for every aircraft he lost.

Pretty bad ROI. Pretty bad pilot.

And he'd be a disastrous President.

[Justice]

4. #4 - where did accidently fired rocket come from that slammed into McCain's plane?

From some other person's plane?

[Oeditpus Rex]

From an F4 Phantom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire

[Justice]

13. Sounds like #4 was not McCain's fault.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. He wasn't even old then when he 'lost' the planes

this doesn't seem good for someone who may (hope not) be Commander in Chief.

"I lost 5 planes McCain!"

[Elwood P Dowd]

6. Bush never lost a plane,

but he lost the Air Force starting in 1972. His daddy lost one, along with the crew that died because of his actions.

[TexasProgresive]

8. Lost the Air Force that's good

I don't think that he ever flew the F-102 solo. I think that he only flew in the TF-102 with an instructor. The 102 was really jickey and took real skill and guts to fly-qualities that he doesn't possess.

[Elwood P Dowd]

9. I think you might be right.

I was in the Army back in those days, but a friend who was in the Air Force then can't imagine that idiot surviving in the F-102.

[FogerRox]

10. Bush Sr flew the TBM Avenger

In the crash, one crewman, Radioman 2nd Class John Delaney, was killed when his parachute failed to deploy. Substitute gunner Lt. j.g. William White was also killed,

http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent?file=ML_bush_bkp

[TexasProgresive]

7. the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot

Some think that McCain was responsible for the Forrestal fire and deaths. It is rumored that he did a "wet start" that caused a burst of flame from his jet spooking the guy behind him who launched the rocket.

McCain saved himself from injury by abandoning his plane over the front. He was the only uninjured service man to be evacuated from the Forrestal with the injured- probably to save his miserable life from retribution.

[thunder rising]

11. Well thank God he got captured or we would have run out of planes.

He is not a very clever individual. I'm a Vietnam era vet, and I could not possibly understand how other vets can even respect him. There has been so much go so wrong around him, it begins to look like HE's the problem. So far he's been good at deflecting the blame.

McCain lost 5 planes

[UTUSN]

15. LOL to your subject line. Big amen to the rest of your post!1 n/t

[csziggy]

14. McCain's fault in the Forrestal incident has been debunked

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3374196#3374570

[populistdriven]

12. How many car accidents can you get in before your insurance company drops you?

How many car accidents can you get in before your insurance company drops you?
How many car accidents can you get in before your insurance company drops you?
How many car accidents can you get in before your insurance company drops you?
How many car accidents can you get in before your insurance company drops you?

[Stinky The Clown]

16. John McCain is a war hero. His defenders will soon be here to take up for him

Don't you know it is against all that is decent to say anything negative about McCain's military record.

He's a war hero.

A FUCKING WAR HERO.

Get That Straight.

WAR HERO.

Say Nothing Negative About Him.

(the foregoing was entirely sarcasm and snark)

:eyes:

[KharmaTrain]

19. I've Been Waiting...Where Are They

By this time in 2004, John Kerry had his "Band Of Brothers" out trying to support his candidacy. I'm not seeing much of this on behalf of Gramps. Look at how they had to dig some of the Slimeboaters...Bud Day...out of the closet last week to try to defend gramps on his COTD story. And it wasn't very convincing of a defense.

I've met plenty of Vietnam vets...my "peers"...who served in that hell-hole and few, if any, want to relive that war or have anything to do with it. Recently, I chatted with a longtime friend, a former Green Beret, who is tired of how Gramps has milked his service for his own personal gain. Most who came home in one piece weren't so lucky. Gramps came back to parades and a PYT who he used and was used to further her family's wealth.

This guy was a Marine...who had nothing but contempt for the "fly boys" who enjoyed nice warm meals and fought the war from 30,000 feet...compared to he (and Kerry) who spent weeks at a time in the jungles...fighting off both fear, insects and the real threat that the next patrol could be your last. He saw many buddies die...then came back to RIGHT WING jerks who blamed him for "losing Vietnam".

So where are Gramps "Band of Brothers"? Methinks they're named Anheiser-Bush, General Dynamics, Lincoln Guaranteed Savings...

Cheers...

[alfredo]

20. Start demanding McCain release his service records.

[sourmilk]

21. Piss-poor student, piss-poor pilot, piss-poor senator, piss poor candidate.

As those in the military are wont to say, "He couldn't pour McPiss from a boot."