The Million Mom March "code of silence?" (re: Mary McFate)

[derby378]

Earlier today, Mother Jones reporters broke the story on gun-control activist Mary McFate, announcing that she was in reality Mary Lou Sapone, who infiltrated chapters of gun-control organizations such as Ceasefire and the Brady Campaign in order to share their tactics with the National Rifle Association, among others.

On the other hand, it appears that some folks in the Brady Campaign's Million Mom March chapters have been implementing a strategy of "controlling the message" by discouraging bloggers from videotaping MMM meetings and events. The most prominent example of this occurred on June 4, 2007, when the Million Mom March of Northern Virginia was scheduled to hold a meeting advertised as "open to the public" at the Centreville Regional Library in Centreville, VA.

Before the meeting started, MMM activists have been caught on tape demanding that bloggers who wished to videotape the meeting sign a handwritten pledge that read: "I agree that any photographic representations recorded at this meeting will be used solely by me for my private use and will not be copied, or made available to any other person or organization without the prior consent of the Northern Virginia Million Mom March." This was apparently in violation of Fairfax County policy, which forbade the MMM from prohibiting videotaping of a public meeting in the library's meeting room.

Here are three videos taken of the meeting in question:

(Part 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOg1pEnddwM
(Part 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq1h8_Y0P7M
(Part 3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-cD-H3s7aQ

As can be seen from the content of the videos, when one videoblogger refused to sign the pledge, MMM organizers abruptly cancelled the meeting. One organizer even made sexist comments denigrating the penis size of the blogger:

(Extended Part 3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAsyrBTvN2g&feature=related

I am certain that not all gun-control organizations behave in like manner. Still, with all this talk about "Mary McFate" being a mole in the employ of the NRA, it has to be asked: what are certain Million Mom March chapters trying to hide?

[Breeze54]

1. Perhaps they don't want to get shot?

:shrug:

[derby378]

3. If that's what they were afraid of, why a public meeting?

Nobody's stopping them from meeting in some other locale where it could be a private meeting or by invitation only. And even though I'm pro-gun, I'm one of the people you'd least expect to harass or intimidate anyone. Democracy is supposed to be about the free exchange of ideas, so I'd be willing to sit at the meeting and listen politely. And if I chose to videotape the proceedings, as long as it's a public meeting and I'm not bothering anyone, who's it going to hurt?

[Breeze54]

4. Because then the video's would be all over the net !

Lot of nuts out there with guns and they hate the people who they think want to take them away.
MMM should be able to control their own meeting and it's a private group. Just because they're
using a public room and probably paying a fee to rent it, shouldn't mean they have to allow it
to be taped. JMO but if I was at one of those meetings, I wouldn't want my picture taken either.

[derby378]

6. Our local MMM chapter often gets broad media attention...

TV news cameras, radio and newspaper reporters, the works. Needless to say, their meetings are also available on the net. And one of the local MMM organizers was asking me why I wanted my own footage of one of their public events. (Reason: Because my wife is more sympathetic to their cause and wasn't able to attend the event herself. I was only trying to be a good husband.)

I grant you that if the MMM wants to have private meetings, they have the right to do so - as long as their venue allows such meetings to be private. Perhaps the Northern Virginia chapter should have done their homework on where to hold that meeting.

Otherwise, the old adage still applies. If you can't stand the heat... :shrug:

[Irreverend IX]

16. How would amateur videos increase their level of danger?

It's easy to find names of anti-gun campaigners, and if you have a name you can find an address, and that's the information that's most useful to would-be assassins. And most prominent anti-gun organizers have their pictures in the media anyway. The real reason they want to prevent videotaping is so they don't get caught spreading false information.

[bigmoon]

2. The NRA had a mole?

I thought they were more powerful than the Bradys??

:shrug:

[derby378]

8. Not for a long time, they weren't...

From 1986 to 1994, they practically owned Congress as Handgun Control, Inc. After that, they were still heavy in Democratic circles - and still are, to a certain extent.

[bperci108]

5. What are certain Million Mom March chapters trying to hide?

My guess would be that they are a far, far short of a "million moms".

Somehow the "Hundred Mom March" just doesn't have the same ring to it... ;)

When one is astroturfing, message control and media manipulation are VERY important.


It may be a popular thing in a few urban areas, and among the elite, but for the majority of America, this issue is as popular as a turd in the swimming pool. Sorry if that steps on some toes, but it's the truth.

It is a guaranteed loser out here in the midwest and west.

Want to guarantee GOP victories?

Easy: Start talking gun control. Then kiss all of our gains here good-bye. :hi:

[Richard Steele]

7. Very well said. I agree completely. nm

[Swede]

9. McFate helped organize the MMM,she could have implemented this policy.

What else are agents provocateurs for?

[virginia mountainman]

10. LOL!!! I had not even seen this post..

And I posted about the reaction on the MMM/Brady/VPC in the Mary McFate thread!!

Great catch Derby!!

[beevul]

11. Teaching Ignorance is what they're hiding.

Would YOU want the world to know that you were telling people that a 50 caliber was some sort of extreme danger to jets that regular firearms were not?

Would YOU want the world to know that you were conflating semi-automatic weapons with automatic weapons?

Would YOU want the world to know that you were telling people that so called "assault weapons" were the choice of criminals in spite of the fact that they are used less in homicides than shotguns or hands and feet?


The people at the top...the helmkes and the bradys...they're professional liars - they don't care what anyone thinks of their lies, but the local little people who spread the scummy message of their parent group...they aren't so keen on being shown to be liars, and they do not have the resources to make the lies stick when taken to task on them, like brady and helmke and sugarman do.

[Junkdrawer]

12. Wonder how many Marys post here? n/t

[beevul]

13. Query.

I just have questions:


What do republicans stand to GAIN from Democrats becoming more accepting of gun owners?

Would it not be in republicans best interests for Democrats to continue to be anti-gun?

[Junkdrawer]

14. Republicans gain nothing. It's the gunners who want to spy and intimidate...

gun control advocates out of existence.

I'd bet serious money that many, many gunners who NEVER voted for a Democrat in their lives come here to try to convince Democrats that the gun issue is a loser for Democrats.

[beevul]

18. "...the gun issue is a loser for Democrats."

"...the gun issue is a loser for Democrats."

Do you believe it isn't?

"It's the gunners who want to spy and intimidate gun control advocates out of existence."


I don't think thats true at all. I admit I'd be "happy" if all the gun control groups disappeared tomorrow, however, I think the great majority of us would be content just keeping gun control advocates honest - which is what videotaping meetings like the example in the OP is intended to do.


"Republicans gain nothing."

At least we can agree on that. Thats a start.

[Junkdrawer]

19. A little truth...

The majority of Americans support sensible gun control laws. (Yes, that includes prohibiting 50 cal. guns/ammunition and Assault Weapons.) But that support is soft.

The NRA, on the other hand, VEHEMENTLY opposes sensible gun control laws. And their supporters are single issue voters. Moreover, the NRA writes checks, especially at the local level. So it's the case that many politicians will vote against majority wishes and vote with the NRA. But they'd rather give you that support on the sly. Don't want to upset that sleeping majority.

[beevul]

20. I suspect your information may be outdated.

The majority of Americans support sensible gun control laws. (Yes, that includes prohibiting 50 cal. guns/ammunition and Assault Weapons.) But that support is soft.

I would like to see your sources for any information that backs up such a claim, and see how current they are.

Beyond that, I very much doubt that the three in four americans that support the individuals right to keep and bear arms believe in the prohibition of non-automatic weapons:

And, Gallup polls reflect that, while only about one-third of the public owns guns, almost three of every four Americans agree that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual’s right to bear arms.

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?076eae7d-2bb1-43c3-a1e9-81ce43efca3f

The nra supports brady background checks, and supports the prohibition of violent felons and violent mentally ill from possession of firearms, so I guess your claim isn't completely true.

And for what its worth, there are some things that are just beyond majority wishes without constitutional amendment. Banning books and protests is one example. Banning guns is another.

[Junkdrawer]

22. 2007 University of Chicago Study...

...

85% want the sale of 50 caliber rifles limited,
82% want the sale of semiautomatic,assault weapons limited,
80% favor criminal background checks for all sales of guns, including private sales between individuals,
79% back requiring a police permit before a gun could be purchased,

...

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/07/pdf/070410.guns.norc.pdf

[derby378]

23. Only 1,364 Americans surveyed?

The poll says nothing about how these respondents were sampled. And where do they live? Do they all live in Illinois, where gun control runs rampant? Are they all inhabitants of urban communities as opposed to rural communities?

Too many unknowns in order for me to give this "poll" much credence.

[beevul]

24. As I said. Outdated.

From the study itself:

Source: 2006 General Social Survey, n=1364

[beevul]

25. And as I also suspected...

Much of the data relied on is from 200/2001.

And:

"General Social Survey (GSS), 1972-2006: The GSS is a full-probability sample of adults
living in households in the United States using in-person interviews. For more details, see
Davis, Smith, and Marsden, 2007. GSS gets its main funding from the National Science
Foundation. The added questions on the regulation of firearms in 2006 were supported by
a grant from the Joyce Foundation.

National Gun Policy Survey (NGPS), 2001: The NGPS is a random digit dialing sample
of adults living in households with telephones. Sample size was 1,176 in 2001. For more
details, see Smith, 2001. The NGPS was funded by the Joyce Foundation.
7

It is highly doubtful that a truly representative and accurate study would be allowed to come out of any Chicago university, let alone one that relied on Joyce Foundation (notoriously anti-gun) funded surveys.


Find something completely unrelated to any pro or anti gun group and funding - one done by people without an axe to grind.

[derby378]

21. Those laws are anything but "sensible"

First of all, they violate the Second Amendment.

Second, they violate DC v Heller.

Third, if bans against semi-automatic firearms and .50-caliber rifles are passed anyway, say goodbye to Democratic control of Congress, and say goodbye to a Democratic President in 2009.

That means John McCain keeps our troops in Iraq for at least four years and as many as a hundred years.

You want to tell me what's "sensible" about this?

[Junkdrawer]

15. The NRA intimidating a Gun Control group. Wow you convinced me...

The Million Mom March DESERVED to be infiltrated!

:sarcasm:

[derby378]

17. Since when is mere videotaping intimidation?

I videotape street parades, Democratic rallies, fun vacation stuff, etc. And as I pointed out earlier, a lot of the Million Moms are very media-savvy.

If you can't stand the heat...