Ok I have a real quandary for the bible thumpers.. maybe you guys can help me

[Indenturedebtor]

Now they are saying that contraception is abortion - the logic being that you're working against god's will by stopping a sperm from fertlizing an egg with your man made baby barrier right?

Well assuming that there is a god - and knowing that sperm dies after a couple of days in the testes, not to mention that when a woman has her period the egg dies as well... does that mean that by refusing to have unprotected sex with me young beautiful christian women are commiting a sin in the eyes of the g-man?

Is abstinence then a sin? Should we all be randomly humping like rabits in an effort to save these innocent gametes? :shrug:

[Tab]

1. That's actually an old quandry - just ask a Catholic

"Thou shalt not spill thy seed" or whatever.

[rateyes]

2. Personally, I'm all in favor of both contraception and

humping like rabbits!

[Quixote1818]

3. Send them this video

This will leave them speechless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA_XMaTYqSs :wow:

[exothermic]

5. Link is "malformed"...whatever that is

:shrug:

[Quixote1818]

9. It should work now. I was wondering what happened to the WOW emoticon.

He got stuck to the end of the video link.

[defendandprotect]

36. dupe

[SacredCow]

4. Your first mistake is applying logical thought....

There's no room for that in the fundie mind.

Catholics, IIRC, are against any form of contraception except the rhythm method, so they're about as close to the sarcastic "Every Sperm is Sacred" song as you can get.

[Mme. Defarge]

6. Well, I guess I'm a "Bible thumper", as it were,

and I can't argue with your conclusion based on the scenario you've provided.

In reality, however, I think the concept of "intervention" is useful. In other words, an individual life begins at conception, and not before or after, because it takes an intervention for conception to occur. That individual life will then continue to develop and be born unless there is an intervention -- natural or otherwise -- that terminates its development and inevitable birth.

So, in my view, the notion that a life begins before conception is as absurd as the notion that it begins at some interim point between conception and birth.

[Obamanaut]

7. This has worked well for me a couple of times.

The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!"

If they really believe that as soon as an egg is fertilized it is a human soul, then their god knows what is going to happen to it for the rest of its life. If we thwart an abortion, then aren't we also thwarting the plan god had for that fertilized egg? An omniscient god already knew what was going to happen to it, the abortion was "scheduled."

[Quixote1818]

11. Yep, no matter what we do, it was planned

just like when Bill Hicks in the video above wiped whole civilizations off his chest with a dirty gym sock, it was planned by god. O8)

[HockeyMom]

22. What happens with natural miscarriages?

Only about 50% of fertilized eggs make it naturally. Does god put souls in for only a couple of days, then take them out when the zygotes don't make it? You would think he would how that already that they were going to die.

[Obamanaut]

25. How in the world should I know. I am a nonbeliever. I will argue

with a fundie or a zealot until they leave me alone.

Last week I had one tell me that she was stranded in a parking lot during a minor hail storm. She asked god to stop the hail long enough to let her enter the store, and it was so! So I asked did she really believe that while someone somewhere was asking god to stop the rape that was happening at that moment, or someone else was asking for food or medicine for her starving or sick child that her god ignored those real needs just so she could go shopping at some store? She said god sometimes does answer her prayers like that.

Good grief. I asked her to ask her god for a cure for aids and cancer next time.

[Bluerthanblue]

38. I guess she forgot that

God is Omnipresent- 'he' is able to be everywhere anytime.

But then that leaves the problem that those asking not to be raped, or not to die were asking for something that went against 'his' will-

Which then begs the question as to whether 'he' is truly a God of Love and Mercy if 'he' allows someone to suffer and be hurt when 'he' has the power to intervene-

Which brings us back to the concept that somehow it was the sufferers fault that they were dying or being hurt,

or if that doesn't stick-

that the bible says "God's ways are mysterious ways" and that no one can begin to know 'his' mind,

which brings us back to

Doh!

:shrug:

[Indenturedebtor]

26. No he leaves them in there so you can take them home and have a party

Just ask Rick Santorum :crazy:

[Geoff R. Casavant]

8. A better quandary . . .

. . . is what happens to miscarried embryos. They are alive, according to doctrine, but they haven't been baptized, so logically they don't go to Heaven. They used to go to Limbo, but that was abolished a few years back. And they apparently don't reincarnate either.

Add to that the fact that roughly half of all pregnancies end in miscarriage (some so soon the woman does not even know she is pregnant). When it comes to killing babies, God is the worst offender of all.

[Indenturedebtor]

27. I'm sorry but your quandary in no way leads to random gratuitous sex

So I'm going to have to deny your application for consideration.

Carl's Junior has determined that you are an unfit questioner of biblical doctrine.

Thank you and have a nice day!

[elehhhhna]

10. They're talking about things which stop implantation, not fertilization...

but they're still going to lump the varios methods all together, imo, -- from condoms to the morning-after-pill.

[Avalux]

12. We should are to have sex to produce offspring only.

We are not to have sex just because it feels good. Only when married and knowing it's possible each and every time to become pregnant because THAT is God's Will.

Eggs and sperm that die without the chance of 'hooking up' don't figure into the equation.

[Indenturedebtor]

15. So then why the prohibition against strokin it? n/t

[Avalux]

31. Because it feels good. No pleasure allowed.

The sexual organs are for propagation only. ;-)

[Indenturedebtor]

33. Again feeding into my initial assertion :D n/t

[undeterred]

13. The theology is based on 13th century scientific understanding

which thought the sperm was a little man and that the woman's body only nurtured it till birth. They didn't know about the ovum.

Since the Catholic church thinks in centuries, sometimes the theology is a few centuries behind. :shrug:

[MindPilot]

14. Agreed; life begins at intent.

Therefore when I lust after that young hottie of the lord, her refusal of my invitation to intercourse is a sin. And a mortal one at that. When I think of the number of girls who have used me to commit the sin of refusal, it's no wonder our society has sunk so low. Every one of those young ladies have probably denied dozens and dozens of men forcing them to commit their own sins of emission.

Oh the HUGH MANATEE!!!11!

[Indenturedebtor]

16. we should form a protest movement :D n/t

[MindPilot]

18. Yes. As men it's time we stood up for our rights and the LORD!!

Demand not to be used and degraded just so women can get off by not having babies. Those childless sinners might as well be using BIRTH CONTROL!

[Indenturedebtor]

19. Lol i can just imagine picketing outside a Mega Church with my pants down n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

17. if the bible says that God gave humans free will-

that free will should include not having sex, using birth control, and not forcing others to do anything.

Otherwise, who is really "God"?

Who makes the 'rules'?

And if God is who the individuals you cite say God is, how could God's 'will' be stopped? If God is all powerful, supreme, or the OMNISCIENT, OMNIPRESENT, OMNIPOTENT GOD the bible says- then if it REALLY was "his will" it would be impossible for any 'mere human' to thwart "his will" wouldn't it?


The perception many people have of God is much different than the one I do.


peace~

[Indenturedebtor]

28. And you sir are unfit to join the Oligarchy

The point is not to seek truth but to twist assumptions in the pursuit of greater profits.

[Bluerthanblue]

34. hey, that's ok- I'm

actually a miss- and the Oligarchy would probably want to miss take-ing me. :evilgrin:


peace~

[Indenturedebtor]

35. Hahah well said :D n/t

[Quixote1818]

20. Thats why we should get rid of the fire department. Who are we to put out god given fires?

Those fires were sent by god to burn down the houses and buildings of sinners!!!!

Benjamin Franklin got grief from the Fundy's when he came up with the idea of a lighting rod. They thought the lighting rod was thwarting gods will.

They are basically using the same argument with using birth control.

[wryter2000]

21. To quote The Ladies Against Women

"Eggs and sperm are people, too, and you young men with your disgusting habits kill millions of sperm every day."

[DailyGrind51]

23. They would argue that either the sperm or the egg do not, by themselves,

a baby make. And, the natural demise of eggs and sperm, sans artificial inducements, is acceptable.

[Indenturedebtor]

39. AHAH then why are condoms and whatnot bad? n/t

[iconicgnom]

24. Bible thumpers aren't rational.

Distinguished from more enlightened religious/moral world views.

[billyoc]

29. I'd like to issue a statement on the record:

[Gato Moteado]

30. a scene from monty python's meaning of life comes to mind.....

....every single sperm is sacred.

[varkam]

32. Here's where you're going wrong:

you're thinking.

Turn off that brain of yours, then it's all going to make sense.

[defendandprotect]

37. So clearly the battle isn't about abortion, it's about birth control -- bye bye birth control . .

[Bluerthanblue]

40. I think to be honest, it always HAS been about "control"-

rather than anything else.


peace~

[defendandprotect]

41. True. . . true. . . true . . . !!!

... but they've tried to keep that hidden --