What will we do when the Senate passes the FISA atrocity?

[EFerrari]

Does anyone know of or have a plan already?

It would be good to have a quick, strong, unified response.

I suggest we immediately mail Conyers and demand (again) impeachment. Hard copy, not email, and CC Wexler. And continue to mail him every week until he moves or until Bush is out of office. I'd be willing to sponsor a weekly thread with a pardner.

If nothing else, some day we could compile our letters and publish them to show the kids we didn't stop trying.

Does anyone have another / better idea? Whaddy think, DU?

[Echo In Light]

1. America's "unified response"

{I know what you're driving at, but still...it's frustrating}

[EFerrari]

6. Yes, it is frustrating as hell. I agree. n/t

[TechBear_Seattle]

2. PGP is your friend n/t

[EFerrari]

8. What is that, TechBear? It's not one of the few drugs I managed to avoid

is it? lol :)

[TechBear_Seattle]

15. It stands for Pretty Good Privacy

See the Wikipedia entry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy

The technology resulted in a criminal investigation of its inventor, Phil Zimmermann, in 1993. The source code, which Zimmermann declared to be open license for non-commercial use, found its way onto the internet. US law at the time defined anything with more than 40 bit encryption to be "munitions"; since PGP used 128 bit encryption, Zimmerman was investigated for munitions export and possible treason. The inquiry ended in 1996 without coming to trial.

The algorithms are publicly available and can still be used without a license. If you are particularly paranoid, ask a hacker friend for a copy; most commerically available PGP applications have government mandated back doors which allow for government spying.

[EFerrari]

18. Wow. I didn't know any of that. Thanks.

I just assume that nothing I do is private any more and go from there. That doesn't bother me at bottom. Congress walking away from us does, though.

[Hydra]

63. Someone better get an even higher encryption rate

And better things than blowfish, 2fish and 3des. You can bet that if they can spy on us in realtime, they can shred most encrypted traffic in minutes.

Paranoia is your friend in a game like this :tinfoilhat:

[Swamp Rat]

3. Have a funeral for the 4th Amendment.

Then congratulate Osama Bin Laden for his victory over the USA.

[Echo In Light]

5. 4th Amendment: Rest in Peace, By Cindy Sheehan

I posted this earlier and it naturally - like many of the articles I source here - didn't receive very much notice or response. I'm likely not climbing too far out on a limb in guessing that messenger isn't very well received around here though.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3504350&mesg_id=3504350

[Swamp Rat]

12. great minds

:)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3493096

[EFerrari]

11. Bush pretty much did give bin Laden everything he wanted, didn't he?

Thanks, Junior!

[Swamp Rat]

16. Yes, and the idiots who voted for the Chimp in Chief blame the Clintons, Democrats, et al.

We truly live in an Idiocracy.

[Lilith Velkor]

61. That thing's been dead for over 20 years

It was an early casualty of the Drug War. Now that people have noticed, I suppose a funeral would be a nice gesture.

[TooBigaTent]

4. Unless people contact their Congress-shit, threaten to NOT vote for them, AND FOLLOW THROUGH,

not a damn thing will change.

What incentive do the pols have to change their behavior if they still get our votes, no matter what they do?

Even children can recognize that empty threats of punishment can be ignored. And our congress is at least as smart as a five-year old.

[EFerrari]

9. We've mounted challenges to Pelosi here. Not very effective ones

but something, anyway. And I suspect we'll get plenty of practice time to do better before she leaves office.

But, it has to be two pronged because you can only withdraw your vote once. However, constantly sending your message helps gather up people into a movement and imposes a burden on the person on the recieving end. That's my thinking, anyway.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bdamomma]

7. say you not re elect them.

[EFerrari]

10. Then what? That's why I think we need an ongoing effort

that is manageable for people who are already busy. We need to keep putting out our message. :shrug:

[bdamomma]

13. this FISA thing will tell us all where we stand with our elected

officials, this is truly a them vs. us agenda.

[EFerrari]

14. I think the answer is already in. The Senate WILL pass this bill. n/t

[TechBear_Seattle]

17. And when you have a Democrat incumbent who tells you to fuck off?

The Two Party wins; America loses.

[EFerrari]

20. "Those aren't my constituents." -- Nancy Pelosi to reporters

regarding Code Pink demonstrators outside her home.

[Pastiche423]

34. Where does she live?

As in, which district?

[EFerrari]

37. She's in Pacific Heights. n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

40. elected PURELY because of her immense wealth & fundraising connections

If what I read is true in the (glowing) puff piece.

They asked her to raise money for the Party because she and her friends
were rich and had "family ties" to the old corrupt party machine.

That's how she got her start. That and nepotism.

[bdamomma]

64. and it's disgusting how they want to relate to us regular folks

when they have nothing in common with us.

[leftofthedial]

19. grumble

a few will scream bloody murder and vow never to support another phony "democrat" again.

a few more will attack the screamers as unrealistic wacky liberals who just don't understand how complicated politics can be and how the Democrats did the best they could and how criticizing them now is the same exact thing as voting for John Mcbush in November and how you can't be a good Democrat and criticize the "democrats."

Most of us will go to work, watch TV, eat fast food, drink beer and keep trimming away our American life little by little each day.

[EFerrari]

23. Can we do those things AND write to John Conyers, too?

lol

Hey -- I have about 200 Beach Impeach postcards looking for a home. :)

[leftofthedial]

24. there's one (or twenty) in every crowd

LOL

[midnight]

21. Isn't Obama speaking out against this.

[EFerrari]

22. Against immunity, which is only half of the problem.

No politician will do this for us. We need a plan, imho.

[Leopolds Ghost]

30. No. And he has no plans to take the matter to the Senate Floor.

[madokie]

25. shit and fall back in it I guess ;-)

[Adsos Letter]

26. Nothing.

That pretty much sums it up I think.

[EFerrari]

27. Kick for suggestions

[Karenina]

28. 5 million Americans halting "bidness as usual" in D.C.

Your gubmint currently has NO FEAR of The People. When the political whores cannot leave the guarded parking lot without encountering those who wish to hold them accountable, perhaps they will remember whom they are there to represent.

[Leopolds Ghost]

31. But how will we do this when people on this very DU claim it's wrong to protest at the convention?

They also claim stopping traffic or being disruptive is "a form of violence akin to terrorism", remember?

I do.

[readmoreoften]

33. Yeah, 5 million Democrats over FISA? 5 million democrats didn't come together to stop the war.

The only reason why it's probably a bad idea to protest the convention is because its likely that an astroturfed CIA group is egging it on. But beyond that I don't think that the idea of gelled masses of people is practical with gas at its current price range.

Wrong? Hell no. Practical. Probably not. Plus it hasn't stopped much in the past 30-40 years. We need to modernize our plans but without relying on the internet.

[Leopolds Ghost]

41. Every successful breach in the suppression of popular discontent had a failed astroturf element.

That grew too large or successful to be manipulated.

That is why every tool in their book is directed towards propping up
incompetent eccentrics who divide and marginalize and use poor tactics to
win over popular support.

The last thing they want is to "marginalize" people by egging them on
in a time of growing structural discontent when Americans have a
natural tendency to sympathize with anyone who is percieved to be
"bucking the system".

Notice who is -not- bucking the system and what their ratings are.

They are too chickenshit to arrest Karl Rove.

Let's not make the same mistake.

As for gas prices, why does it need to be in DC?
Note how nervous people are in even discussing protest.
They are afraid not just that someone is listening --
this is a public BBS, after all -- but that someone is
actively seeking out folks who agree with us and paid
to undermine them in every media.

[readmoreoften]

50. Re DC, I'm just saying that the standard-issue centralized protest is no longer a successful model

The last protest that even had a surprise factor was the immigration rally. People always say "let's go to DC!!!!" My opinion is its useless. It's where they are most able to control dissent and keep it hidden.

Because everything is mediated, I believe that "large crowds" no longer amaze anyone. It will all be denied or miscounted. I think the smart thing is small crowds everywhere. That will get attention and bring neighbors together. Instead of 100,000 in DC let's aim for 10% in every townhall in America.

8000 people in Trenton New Jersey
300,000 in Philly
300 people in Caldwell, Texas

People could even be broken into smaller areas in mid-sized cities so they could be with neighbors.

Then people won't have to drive of be wealthy enough to own a car. Everyone in America will physically see the disruption no matter how badly it's broadcast. Local news will cover everything. Enough local news will force good national news. Whether or not the politicians listen, we'll be communicating with ourselves.

Leaders need to emerge out of locations. No "national vanguard leadership". If everyone who knows Joey knows he's a Republican police detective, when Joey puts on a tie-dye and flip flops, he'll be laughed out of his own community.

The military has been doing netcentric warfare for 2 decades. We need to do netcentric protesting.

That's my 2c. anyhow.

[EFerrari]

51. I used to suggest that we go to our nearest federal building.

There's one of those everywhere.

But that doesn't motivate people and it may not even be manageable for working people.

[BuyingThyme]

29. We must demand that Nancy Pelosi step down.

[readmoreoften]

32. Maybe we should make up a list of things that WON'T WORK on go on from there.

And why.

1. Emails, letters, Petitions: Won't work. There is obvious internal pressure to pass this.
2. Protests in DC: Won't work. Business as usual in DC and also people can't afford gas to attend.
3. Mere online bitching: Obviously.
4. Threatening to withold vote: Said out of anger. If successful, Evil would replace Cowardice in this election cycle. Centrists would blame Progressives; further shift to right-wing ideas and capitulation would result.

Any more to add?

By the way, my first idea is to forget about the party (perhaps except for those with courage) and start looking for a solution outside the political system.

[EFerrari]

38. The assumption in my OP is that the bill will pass.

[readmoreoften]

45. I'm just saying that before or after I don't think any of these things will work.

On social issues I believe these things work because politicians are trying to catch the wind. But on foreign policy and economics I think it's all internal deals, appeasing major donors and lobs, threats, and strong-arming. I don't think the voters really have shit to do with national and international politics and economics. Corporations decide that.

[EFerrari]

46. I agree with that. But, unless we put together a response

and one we can maintain, we've left the field. Sometimes, just staying together is a measure of victory.

[readmoreoften]

52. Sure. That's the positive part about online bitching :)

The other things I mentioned: emails, faxes, etc. and big protests in DC I think are pointless. I never feel more like a useless tool than when I'm signing a petition these days.

[EFerrari]

53. I know. It feels like busywork and I can't keep track of what I've already signed.

lol

But if we think of it as remodeling a culture, then what "works" changes a little.

[VP505]

35. If they insist on spying and wiretapping

lets give them something to listen to. Do everything you can to jam up the system, like every time you make a phone call use a few of the trigger words, if enough people do that it could overload the system and cause a shutdown.

[EFerrari]

42. We all say "Karachi" at noon on a long distance call?

:)

[Leopolds Ghost]

43. Ay, Karachi!

[bdamomma]

65. I wish we could all learn Arabic cuz they do not have any

translators that would drive them crazy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Plan b is what people are not willing to do

we should go on a national strike, but you can forget about that

We should start actual directed political resistance

Seat ins

No more nice what have you

But people will not do that

So do what you can to resist, perhaps, someday, the rest of the country will catch up to you

By the way... MOST people have no idea that this is about to cancel the fourth ammendment

[EFerrari]

44. There are no more strong unions to put together a strike like that.

And this atrocity isn't even directed at potential terrorists. We are now the de facto enemy.

[readmoreoften]

47. Unions can't wildcat. It's in almost all contracts. Only non-unionized labor can be organized for

this purpose. On the up side for a general strike--the majority of folks won't be hampered by having the protection of a union :sarcasm:. I think it will be good to reach out to unions. I think some locals will be very supportive and participate as much as they can without slitting everyone's throats.

It's true though, a general strike is all we have. If we don't have that, then I can't see what leverage we have at all. They're not going to respond to "righteous outrage" and they can sway the votes through media or just completely lie. The only thing we possess that they cannot live without is our labor.

[EFerrari]

49. At least the corporate media is losing its audience a little more

all the time. We have that, anyway. They can't force us to support their outlets.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. The only thing we have left is actually a national strike

that's it

And people won't go there.

So we are stuck

And the media... you know what? They are still having eyes to screen and plenty of idiots watching idiot shows...

Until the people are truly desperate it will not change

And yes, WE are the enemy... have been since 2000

[bdamomma]

67. amd we all know they want "obedient workers" to quote

Carlin.

[dailykoff]

48. Get Sheehan elected?

Is her campaign still a going concern?

[eridani]

54. Pelosi has a Dem primary opponent, Shirley Golub

Work for her.

[dailykoff]

55. Wasn't the Calif primary in march?

That would mean Shirley already lost wouldn't it?

[EFerrari]

56. That election was held the first week of June.

We will continue to work on the Pelosi problem in the district.

[unblock]

57. not to worry, dubya will stand up for the constitution and veto the bill!

:sarcasm:

:cry:

[pnorman]

58. The BEST thing would be to make GODDAM sure

that we have a new face in the White House, next January! NOTHING would be more important than that! NOTHING!!!

pnorman

[EFerrari]

69. Sure, that's one goal. But not holding BushCo accountable

will come back to bite us or our kids -- as we already know from all the criminals IN the Bush misAdministration that got to walk away before like Rumsfeld, Negroponte et al.

[pnorman]

72. I'm actually torn on this.

As a lifelong "perfectionist", I voted for and SUPPORTED Ralph Nader in 2000. The point was to "send a message" to the Democratic Party, without doing any fatal damage. We all know how that worked out, but I offer NO apology. I make the bet choice I can make, and with what is known to me at the time.

The stakes are far higher this year, than anyone here has ever seen. Born in 1930, I have NEVER seen a candidate whose integrity and JUDGMENT I trust more than Obama. I say: Let HIM decide on how to handle this. And then let's ALL support him, body and soul!

pnorman

[EFerrari]

73. You know, passively hoping someone even as obviously talented

as Obama is will fix this -- well, it's just not something I can do any more. After I sat there and watched Gore (and all the rest of us) be defrauded, bench warming feels outright dangerous to me. :shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. Elect a President who opposes it

If Obama opposes this, surely he will not use these new government powers when he assumes office.

[johnlal]

60. Use the word "terrorist" in every phone conversation...

Overload the system, and maybe they'll find a better use of their time.

[Hubert Flottz]

62. We could all have our phone service cut off to protest...

I'm tempted and I'm a heart patient...

[spanone]

66. we have elected our leaders...if they don't represent us, VOTE THEM OUT

and let them know why

[oldskool]

68. Or quit paying their pay checks. Just cite

executive privilege

[elehhhhna]

70. blast a dog whistle into the phone during each and every call?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

71. Jerk my knees around some more.

Everything will be different if this FISA bill passes.

[spanone]

74. there's not one fucking thing we can do but VOTE THEM ALL OUT

[EFerrari]

75. I'm willing to do that, spanone. But we need to keep making noise

too, to let them know we're paying attention.

Think about it. They've put over this FISA atrocity numerous times -- imho, trying to find a window when they can pass it with the least political fallout.

I want them to know, there is fallout and there will be fallout every single f#cking time they sell us out.

Why make it easier for this sh!t to happen?

/oops

[spanone]

77. i will let them know AND vote them out...rethugs AND democrats....law is law

i can't compete with the telecom money but i have my vote.

[EFerrari]

78. Your vote AND your voice. Thanks, spanone.

I'm going to put together an action, ready to go the minute the vote is counted. And then weekly after that, because no one in public office should be able to stand there and LIE to us about what this bill means and why it is being passed -- not the Republicans, not the Democratic collaborators, not Obama.

This bill is a form of terrorism, not a remedy for terrorism and we KNOW that.