The grave dancing and related attacks against

[cboy4]

people who die, displayed here on a progressive discussion board are a combination of shocking and revolting.

It's absolutely unbearable.

Whether it's Anna Nicole Smith .. a person who never hurt anybody in her life, yet was vilified.

Or the San Francisco father who died walking through snow to save his family, after taking a wrong turn in Oregon.

Or the "dumb asses" who die mountain climbing.

Or Tammy Faye Bakker who suffered and wasted away from cancer.

Or even the comments about Betty Ford when her husband died. I found it incredibly sad seeing an old woman who did a lot of good walking behind the casket of her companion of so many years. Yet there was celebration.

What's wrong with people?

Maybe someone can explain why it's okay to laugh at and mock and show a complete lack of sympathy for dead people and those who are suffering.

Certainly, the majority of people here at DU are respectful, and display the kind of empathy that's traditionally synonymous with being liberal/progressive/Democratic, etc.

But too many are not.

And now, it's gotten to the point that certain people are trying to be clever with their Tim Russert grave dancing by disguising it with what they want myself and others to believe are impartial essays, evaluating his work, or how current events are not being adequately covered because of his death coverage.

Sorry. I see right through it and I'm not amused.

In fact, it makes me sick.

I'm pretty sure we're better than this.

[SeattleGirl]

1. I know what you mean.

While I can agree that Timmeh Russert wasn't completely unbiased, I totally do NOT get the grave dancing I've seen here.

Maybe it's because I would prefer that no one dance on my grave either.

But whatever. I just think it's unseemly.

Just MHO.

[cboy4]

4. Well there are a number of people like yourself and

Raine who have such good hearts and always speak out against grave dancing.

However, I can live to be a thousand and not understand why others are polar opposites.

It's almost as though it's a compulsion.

[readmoreoften]

2. How about grave-being-realistic? I feel the same about Russert as I did three days ago.

He didn't become more or less of what he was. I feel for his family. I feel for the families of those who lost people in Iowa. I feel for the people who lost loved ones to manufacturing conditions outside the U.S. A lot better and worse people than Tim Russert have died recently. That's just the way it is as far as I'm concerned.

[cboy4]

8. I think I'd just like to people who are happy about the

deaths of other human beings to just not write anything at all.

It's perfectly fine to feel indifferent about Russert.

I just have a problem when people feel they need to write ugly things about the dead.

I will never forget the jokes on the day Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter died from being stabbed through the heart by a stingray.

[readmoreoften]

9. I find that far more unforgiveable. Irwin did no harm to anyone.

People who make nasty jokes about people just because they're in the news are largely detached, bored, and nasty people. There is a strong case to be made of complicity for any prominent journalist in this era who failed to do their job and 'got along to get along'. It's one of those things. Certainly anyone who stood up would commit career suicide...unless a critical mass of people stood up. His death won't really change that. A few stood up and we're beheaded--Olbermann, Cooper, etc. he could have gotten on that boat. He chose the other boat.

That's why I feel indifferent to him. There was this onslaught of death and he just dutifully carried the buckets of blood. He lost his humanity when he made that choice. Just like Hitler's chauffeur or Bush's many unrepentant press secretaries or Pol Pot's secretary or Henry Kissenger's accountant. For someone like that, many people have no feeling at all. He was ambivalent in a time of great crisis. :shrug:

Irwin didn't really enable a death-for-profit regime, nor did Anna Nicole Smith.

[DCKit]

109. "Irwin did no harm to anyone."

How many children will be stung or bitten by animals because they emulate Irwin's tactics of getting too close, then teasing the animals to get a reaction? He was a horrible example for children.

I have no doubt that he has done, and will continue to do, much harm as long as his shows remain in syndication.

[Skittles]

10. ugly things or true things?

or both?

[cboy4]

11. Well you know what I mean....there are certainly exceptions.

I won't lie that when Dick Cheney heads to hell, I'll be happy to help pack his suitcase.

I'm talking about ordinary people who don't deserve the type of comments that should be reserved for rotten human beings.

Yes indeed, as you would say.

[Skittles]

12. I think it is in poor taste to celebrate death

but I have long thought Mr. Russert was a f***ing tool and that feeling did not change because he died. If that's "dancing" well then so be it.

[cboy4]

13. See but that's the thing. I don't have a problem with people

who think Russert was an effing tool.

But why would people have to write about how he was an effing tool on the day he passed away?

The day of death comments are the ones to which I'm primarily referring.

[Skittles]

92. I believe it is because

watching all the accolades - profession-wise - for a f***ing media tool is nauseating to those of us who know better

[YankmeCrankme]

16. Who cares what day it is.

Almost all those comments were rebuttals to all the fawning and faux grief. Come on, how can you grieve someone you have no connection to, no relation to. You can be sad someone died, or that he died young or left a family, but grieving? Than there were the posts about how great a journalist he was, how fair, how objective. Most comments were a rebuttal to those things.

Sure there are a few people who posted immature things, on both sides, but that is going to happen no matter what. Most things fall into the bell curve. On each end you will find the people who are extreme and you saw that here as with all the other examples you gave. You are never going to get rid of that. Stop trying to convert a few who will never change and it doesn't help to call the rest sub human, disgusting, etc. like several posters did. See, I attributed that to the fringe like I attribute the mean posts about other peoples death to the fringe.

What you say isn't true all the time either, just when people have both negative and positive opinions of the person who dies. Everyone had respectful things to say about the special effects guy who recently died. Why? Because nobody who wanted to post had negative feelings for him. Same happens most of the time, lots of posts about people dying and nothing negative. Even on those posts people will sometimes argue about deceased contributions and talent. How come nothing is posted about that outrage...and on the day of their death..by these same people expressing outrage that Russert's contributions and talent are challenged? Mainly, because they aren't controversial would be my guess.

Short of a moratorium on posting death notices, just realize that you will have both praise and damnation for those controversial people and the greater their impact on people in general the greater the level of disagreement.

[cboy4]

21. Who cares what day it is? That says plenty about you

and you sense of compassion, or perhaps more accurately, lack there of.

Celebrating the death of someone minutes after the announcement they died from heart failure is appalling.

[YankmeCrankme]

90. You don't know what I did when I found out he died.

Your blathering about how I celebrated it is just an immature emotional statement with no basis in fact. You don't know anything about how compassionate I am, so you can stuff your unenlightened opinion.

That said, why should I give a shit about anything you say? You just make stuff up.

[JuniperLea]

77. And I'd like to see the lies stop too...

He doesn't deserve the accolades or the grave dancing, period.

Mostly, he doesn't deserve another goddamn thread.

[cboy4]

82. Yea, I don't disagree... again, this thread is not

specifically about Russert.

It's part of the ongoing bad behavior of some DUers who can't wait it piss all over the graves of people who have died, such as people who get lost in the wilderness, celebrities and environmentalists such as Steve Irwin.

Russert's grave dancing merely prompted me to type my seemingly 100th thread on the grave dancing subject.

[JuniperLea]

88. I hear you

I'm called a Message Board Nanny once in a while... keyboard commadoes... jeez.

People should actually think of others here as people too... maybe they'd calm down and act human.

[Hubert Flottz]

3. REALLY...

I don't see why you even hang around here!

[davidpdx]

5. I agree with you

and made a comment the other day that some of the comments about Tim Russert were akin to dancing on his grave. It's pretty sad.

[Quantess]

6. LOL! Seriously, though.

There are very few people whose deaths I'd celebrate. G.W.Bush, Admiral Cheney, hmmm, pretty much that sums it up!

[hlthe2b]

7. I wish I knew, cboy4

None of us could meet the threshold that is being thrown down in terms of "purity" of expectations...

Whiile it may not be as hateful or shocking on an absolute level, it still feels like the "liberal-progressive" answer to Fred Phelps, frankly. Like Phelps, we have absolutely no compunction about angrily protesting the newly dead--no matter who it hurts-- to further our own agenda. For some, WE are RIGHT, They are (were) WRONG and damned the consequences. Civility is (nearly) dead.

[bluerum]

14. We ALL die. It's not like we need some exrtaordinary life experience to

learn how to do it. You will figure it out when the time comes.

What is crucial, what is critical, is how you live your life during the short time you have.

When people choose to serve evil, carry water for fascists, dictators and money barons, I have a right to make observations about them whether they are living or dead. Just as you do.

But tell me, what holy all exempting properties does death have? Why does death give you a free pass on what you did in life?

Timmy is gone. We can't hurt him anymore. But much of what he did continues to hurt those who are left behind - including his family.

[cboy4]

15. Because you need your head examined if you're

lumping Tim Russert in with fascists, dictators and money barons.

The people you're referring to are not the people I'm talking about and you know it.

Much of what Russert did continued to hurt his family. WTF

Disgusting. :puke:

[YankmeCrankme]

17. He's talking about the policies that this administration follows that continue to hurt Americans

Plus, he didn't lump him into fascists, dictators or money barons. He said he carried water for them, i.e. he helped support them.

Are you deliberately obtuse? And of course, the Digusting comment. First you misread him, then you insult him. Nice.

[cboy4]

19. So that justifies making nasty comments about him

minutes after it was announced he died from heart failure.

How sad you approve.

Body not even cold = grave dancing.

Got it. :thumbsdown:

But of course this thread is not about Russert specifically as you'd see had you bothered to read the OP.

[YankmeCrankme]

91. What are you, like ten? That poster said no such thing.

Again with the making stuff up.

I was commenting on your comment, not the OP. I read the OP, dumbass! Again with the assumptions.

[bluerum]

98. No nasty comment about him - just about what he did - and how it continues

to burden our country and the world. That includes me, you, his family and those who have not been born.

I am not grave dancing (although some folks are but that's their right). But I don't view death as a whitewash for your life's sins.

[JuniperLea]

84. He was an enabler to all those you mention...

So, yes, he can absolutely be lumped with them. No head examination necessary.

If you truly want this crap to stop, you should stop stirring the pot.

[bluerum]

99. You want to examine my head? Or do you want to volunteer someone else to do it?

Cause I really am open to it.

I stand by what I said - Tim Russert enabled criminals. What he did in life will haunt us all for years to come.

[cboy4]

101. I imagine we'd fine nothing but sawdust, so I don't think it's

prudent to commit so many busy people to the task.

"You're an asshole for saying my head is full of sawdust," you'll go on to say to me.

Well bluerum, how else can one explain your tragic lack of empathy?

[bluerum]

103. I am not looking to explain it. You are. And you know what you are.

I don't presume to know you well enough to categorize you.

But I promise I will give your empathy comment all the consideration it deserves.

Adios, amigo.

[cboy4]

105. And what's really funny is your sig is from the

Dali Lama! :spray:

You, quoting one of the kindest people on earth.

My my my.

[bluerum]

111. He wrote an interesting book on death. You should read it.

[Snarkturian Clone]

18. It's not just this, it's everything lately.

Seems like the liberal/progressive purity tests have gotten to the extreme lately. According to some recent posts:

--I'm now supposed to hate not just the rich but the middle class as well
--I'm supposed to be happy about high gas prices
--I'm an idiot or moron if I'm not a vegan (that subthread was deleted so I don't know where that went)
--I'm supposed to dance on the grave of ANYONE who was not an extreme leftist.
--I'm supposed to LOVE John Lennon and every phony celebutard associated with him or I'm an RWer
--I'm supposed to worship every celebutard that is a democrat or I'm an RWer
--I'm supposed to HATE television in addition to not watching it.
--I'm supposed to HATE that guts of any Repub, even my neighbors and boss, and never associate with them or be friends with them (I find it weak that people only have friends that agree with them)
--I'm not just supposed to hate smoking, but now SMOKERS, because dontcha know all smokers are repubs!
--It's not enough that I'm pro-choice, I now am required to believe that a fetus at any stage of growth is a useless single-celled organism.

.. If I don't agree with any of those things and post about it, I'm bound to get at least one reply shaming me for being a freeper. No discussion, no questions, no back and forth, just a nasty comment about being a shill.

[GCP]

30. You hit the nail on the head

It's like the board is being taken over by Pod People.

[Dorian Gray]

44. Hey freeper... you're at the wrong board.

I KID!

I agree with you.

[muffin1]

20. Thank you for this

I've wanted to say similar things for days, but I guess I didn't want to face the blow-back. The happy grave dancing, the "fuck Tim Russert" attitudes do nothing to advance the mission of this site, IMO. Democratic Underground is read by many people (we have been quoted on quite a few news outlets). This sort of vitriol only makes us look like nasty fringe dwellers, not the progressives we profess to be.

[eShirl]

22. how much time needs to pass before it's no longer considered grave-dancing?

a week, a month, a year?

[cboy4]

23. Well certainly it shouldn't happen minutes after the

announcement of death.

Which is what happened during most of the examples I listed in the OP.

The question you should be asking is to yourself.

Why do you condone this activity?

[eShirl]

24. I don't condone or not condone, I am curious as to how much time has to pass

before it's no longer considered grave dancing.

If you expect people to refrain from grave-dancing, shouldn't you be able to answer what the time-frame is on grave-dancing ?

[cboy4]

26. I'm opposed to grave dancing, because I'm a decent

human being.

You behave a repulsive as you want. It's a free country.

[eShirl]

31. so you don't think anyone should ever say anything negative about Russert ever again?

Or about any other deceased people?

If you disagree, then please tell me how long you think people should have to wait after someone's death to say anything negative about them.

Has Reagan been dead long enough yet for me to point out what I think he did wrong without it being grave dancing?

[cboy4]

35. As I said, there is not anything wrong with saying negative

things about Russert.

But there's a time and place.

And minutes after the announcement of his death is not the time to hammer him.

It's disrespectful.

But as I said, you go ahead and celebrate death. It's a free country.

[NNN0LHI]

25. What about all the Americans who were creaming their jeans during Shock and Awe?

That was about 70% of our country and you didn't mention them.

Or is this thread just for wealthy white people who die?

Don

[cboy4]

27. Oh Don, Don, Don.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

Try again.

[MedleyMisty]

28. I've been thinking

Later today I'm going to see if I can find threads from back when Hussein was executed and see how many people were going on about speaking well of the dead then.

[Midlodemocrat]

29. .

:applause:

[IndianaJones]

32. progressive discsussion board. heh. nt.

[L0oniX]

33. More flame bait ...YAwn ...TS is dead ..get over it already.

[KG]

34. what? another sermon? can't we just pass the offering plate and get out of here already?

mang, I'm hungry, let's get to Shoeneys before they close the breakfast buffet!

[Winterblues]

36. "I'm pretty sure we're better than this."

Have you been paying attention to DU these past couple of years? It has become painfully obvious to me that many here, if not most now, are not better than this and in fact seem to make freeperville look civilized. This used to be a so much better site than it has evolved into..No Respect, which actually is a Republican trademark but has infiltrated DU to the Max..

[lamp_shade]

40. Same observation here.

Where did all the adults go?

[papapi]

37. Thank you cboy4. There are some sick people in this world.

[cboy4]

38. I know....I should have used your wording "in this world",

because I said in another thread that there are some sick people at DU.

It got deleted because it's apparently against the rules and/or some found that the truth hurts.

Therefore, I would never in a million years make such an accusation.

[leftofthedial]

39. Assuming you are referring to Russert's death . . .

You seem not to understand the meaning of the term "grave dancing." Grave dancing means to celebrate someone's death, to revel in their passing as good news, to express one's happiness at another's death. It does not mean to criticize the dead or even mean to behave disrespectfully (that is usually called "whistling past a graveyard"). As for outright celebration of Russert's death, I have seen NONE of that on DU. Rather, I have seen DUers who are outraged at the undeserved praise that has been heaped on him post mortem, the grotesquely inaccurate characterizations of his broadcasting career and the ridiculously prolonged public gnashing of teeth by the "news" networks. I have seen DUers trying to set the record straight by reminding others of Russert's true (destructive) legacy.

NOT the same thing as grave dancing.

Now in the case of Raygun . . . or when Cheney finally croaks, or any member of the bush brood . . .

[cboy4]

41. Yes, Russert's death prompted this thread, however I post

these threads practically every time I witness grave dancing.

And if you read the OP, you'd have discovered I listed some of the examples.

Oh, and believe me, there are people here celebrating Russert's death.

He is every bit as terrible as Slobodan Milosevic in their minds per their grave dancing comments.

[leftofthedial]

42. I haven't read every post on DU since Friday, but

I've been involved in ten or so Russert threads and I've seen zero grave dancing. I've seen lots of well-deserved criticism of Russert's actual record, but I haven't seen anyone saying "yippee I'm glad he died."

[cboy4]

46. Well there's such a thing as reading between the lines, so

you don't necessarily have to see the words "yippee I'm glad he died" to know the insinuation is "yippee I'm glad he died."

You're smart enough to know that.

[leftofthedial]

54. I've written many posts critical of Russert

and I had no such meaning between my lines.

The Russert posts I have read are of four types:

1. Russert was a saint even before he died. I loved him more than my own mother. He was a great journalist and a wonderful family man. His children loved him.

2. Russert was the preeminent corporate media whore. His actual record shows zero evidence of great journalism. He was a prime cheerleader for the invasion of Iraq, for the two (stolen) bush "elections," for Cheney whenever Cheney needed a propaganda outlet, etc.

3. People who worship the legacy of Russert as though he was a great journalist are wrong. What is wrong with them?

4. Criticizing him by pointing out the less-than-flattering facts of his career is dancing on his grave and you people who do it are sick and disgusting.


Can you refer me to examples of between-the-lines glad-he-died posts? I'm usually pretty good at picking up on nuance, but I seem to have missed these posts entirely.

[cboy4]

60. No, I'm won't refer you to examples because not only am

I fed up with it... this thread is absolutely not intended to be focused on Russert.

My bitching about more grave dancing was initiated by the comments I read the day he died of heart failure. People couldn't even allow the proverbial body to get cold first.

This thread is about the disturbing celebration of death at DU as a whole.

[bvar22]

78. So you "imagine" people are grave dancing.

Maybe you should have posted an imaginary thread to deal with the offense you created in your own mind.

[cboy4]

83. Yea, you're right. There hasn't been any grave dancing.

In fact, you rarely see it around here.

:spray:

[cynatnite]

43. DU is generally a lousy place to be when someone famous dies...

It gets pretty sickening at times.

[kentuck]

45. Personally...

I don't think it is proper to criticize or talk about people who cannot defend themselves, including recently dead people. It is a judgemental act to do such. It is not something that I am personally comfortable with.

[cboy4]

47. I'm glad to hear good DUers like yourself say this.

:)

[hfojvt]

48. so now criticizing his work or the overkill of coverage is also grave dancing?

you left somebody off your list, and reaction to Russert was pretty tame compared to what was said about this guy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2293023

I still don't buy the conflation between criticism of his work and grave dancing.

[cboy4]

62. That's not what I said.......read my OP, comprehend, and

stay on topic hfojvt.

[Sheets of Easter]

49. It's called Desktop Testicular Enlargement Syndrome.

People act all high and mighty from the safe haven of their computer, but wouldn't dare say things like that in public.

That, and the "we know we're right which makes you wrong" mentailty that infects us all, not just Freepers.

[Texasgal]

97. Why must it alwasy be about the TESTES???

:P






j/k....:hide:

[mzmolly]

50. K and R.

:kick:

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[endarkenment]

57. r before the delete

exactly what I was thinking, I just framed my response differently.

[cboy4]

61. Uh huh. You can call me a brainwashed piece of shit all

you want specimenfred1984.

You can also call me "dumb as hell."

But all of your DU rule violation personal attacks will not mask your ignorance of not even being able to grasp the glaring, and extraordinary easy to understand point of the OP.

So I'll explain it to you.

This has nothing to do with the purported lies you accuse Russert of, and instead, everything to do with celebrating his death because you're blinded by hate.


on edit, typo

[hfojvt]

65. which came first, the hate or the lies?

and I still have not seen anything as celebratory or hateful as this for Russert:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2288532#2288673

Here is what I have seen instead:

"It's terrible that Russert died. He was a great journalist and a great progressive."

"He was too young to go, but he was a neocon enabler as a journalist. A sellout and a rightwing hack. My condolences to his family and friends though, but is there no other news. Four dead in I-o-wa."

"Y-y-you're dancing on his grave you hateful moonbat. You're embarrassing, immature and disgusting. Think of the children!!!"

[jgraz]

76. Damn ... Reggie White is DEAD???

How the hell did I miss that?

[driver8]

52. Why do people have to say anything at all??

If someone has passed and I have nothing nice to say about them, I simply keep my mouth shut.

Why do I need to say mean things about someone who has just died?

[cboy4]

58. Totally.

:thumbsup:

[endarkenment]

59. Most of those chiming up with negative information and assessments

of Mr. Russert did so in response to the over-the-top and total bullshit hero-worship eulogies that were posted here. If you post stuff on a message board you ought to expect that somebody else will post a contrary position and not have a freaking cow when the do so.

[hfojvt]

87. almost everything on DU becomes a litmus test though

whether it is 'no true progressive likes Russert' or 'no true progressive spews hate when somebody dies'. People here have a cow over many disagreements.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/48

We are scared of diversity or something, but the whole "how dare you dispute my errors with your facts on this solemn occasion?" Only positives are allowed, even if they are wrong. :wtf:

[YankmeCrankme]

94. I think people are tired of others telling them how they should feel, what they should say.

Plus the fact that nobody likes to be called subhuman, inhumane vermin or worse for stating their opinion or refuting the spin or trying to set the record straight.

The way I look at it is half the posters think it is not okay to criticize the newly dead and the other half thinks it is. Since there isn't any objective truth on the issue why get so upset over it.

It's not like they're going to change people's attitude about this.

[Lerkfish]

53. its ritualistic shaking of charms against tragedy

when people belittle those who have fallen or had tragedy befall them, its a superstitious naming of the other as "other and not me" therefore chanting that tragedy cannot befall themselves.

sorry to get all Jungian on ya.

[endarkenment]

55. If you had posted a eulogy of Anna Nicole Smith claiming that she

was one of the greatest actresses in the world I would have felt compelled to point out that she was nothing of the sort. If you call that grave dancing and rude, that is your problem.

[Leftist Agitator]

56. Grave Dancing should be a goddamned Olympic event!

Fuck Baseball. Grave Dancing is the REAL national pasttime!

[LaurenG]

63. I agree and it makes me want to stay away from here

but DU pulls me back and so I just try not to read the ugly ones.

[jgraz]

64. Welcome to democracy. Sorry it hurt your feelings.

:eyes:

[cboy4]

66. It's doesn't hurt my feelings....it makes me want to throw

up.

Much like your gross lack of empathy.

[jgraz]

67. I have a fine amount of empathy.

For example, I can sense your passive-aggressive sanctimony a mile away.

[cboy4]

68. George W Bush also comments about how much empathy

he has for all of the US troops he's killed off.

You're in terrific company with your self analysis. :sarcasm:

[jgraz]

69. Wow, bringing out the big guns today, I see.

I really hope tomorrow is "Logic Day" for you. Maybe then you'll look back and realize it was you who started whining about everyone else's lack of empathy for dead rich people.

[clixtox]

100. You have absolutely NAILED the OP....

I am on the other side of the planet and my senses are overwhelmed...

The OP's responses to some of those who have posted to further the discussion have been childish and inflammatory.

I am going to be tempted to get into the spirit of "grave-dancing" the next opportunity that arises just to antagonize those who wish to pretend that they are more humane and kinder than those who express their antipathy towards the (too) recently deceased.

Get over it, it isn't a big deal, period!

[cboy4]

102. If sounding like rotten human being with freeper-like values,

he sure nailed me! lol

[datasuspect]

70. what really sucks is sociopaths who can muster fine sentiments for the dead

but act like dicks toward the living.

jeez.

[cboy4]

80. Don't be so hard on yourself....

Know what I'm sayin?

[datasuspect]

81. that you make commentary on the emotional shortcomings of others is truly laughable

the irony leaves me verklempt.

series, i'm getting spilkas in my genugtegezoik

[spoony]

93. Sociopath? There are many fine online dictionaries

Perhaps you could sidle on over to one, as the word cannot be remotely applied as you have done.

[cboy4]

95. Thanks my friend.

:)

[Evoman]

71. Oh boo hoo.

:eyes:

[datasuspect]

72. boo to the motherfuckin' hoo

word.

[Evoman]

74. I'm sss.....sniff.. .ssss.....ssoooooo sad! SOOOOO SAD!

AND YOUR AN INHUMAN MONSTER....sniff.

[datasuspect]

79. TTTTHIS IS OUTRAGES!!!!11111

[rene moon]

73. Thank you for this

cboy4,

Thanks for posting this OP. This sort of behavior is the reason why I just lurk now and not post anymore. The ugliness that is daily on DU is no better than the ugliness on FR.

I am so dismayed that so many so-called "progressives" are just bad as many on the right--its just a different type of fascist thinking, dressed up as lefty values.

These are NOT progressive values. To dislike someone is one thing, to be a total ass about it is quite another. It reflects on the type of person they are and really, reflects what is really going on in America today.

As for Russert, I thought he was annoying sometimes but I dont think he is the Pol Pot-type that people are portraying him to be. One man on TV alone cannot make the decisions of an entire
White House Administration. Those who think so are deluding themselves.

Perhaps I should blame Tim Russert (or any other famous person who dies) on everything that goes wrong in my life? Just like how those on the right blame the Clintons for everything? I mean, come on!

[cboy4]

85. Your points are very well taken rene moon.

It is indeed ugly with a capital "U."

[JuniperLea]

75. The High Road Must Be Closed For Construction

I think it is equally horrid to lie about how good Russert was as it is to dance on his grave... in public. What I think in my own mind is still my own business... this week anyway.

One simple RIP thread for a fellow human being would have sufficed nicely. But no. "We" couldn't resist, so we refuse to let him RIP.

Let the poor man RIP all fucking ready!

[eppur_se_muova]

86. If they can't tell the truth in your obituary, you didn't lead a good life.

I'm not sure what it is you think you're "seeing through". If you thought you were supposed to be amused, you've probably missed something. Russert was a right-wing shill and enabler, something he worked hard at for years. He created his own record, and he will be judged for it. Suggesting that we not mention this just because he chose this particular time to die is just a touch irrational.

[tbyg52]

89. Well, I don't get on the computer every day,

but I remember the deaths of a couple on your list (Anna Nicole Smith and Tammy Faye Bakker), and what I found out about them here was the good stuff, as it happens.

As far as Russert, I think the factual recollections of his career, and commentary on the results of same, are entirely justified and appropriate.

[Texasgal]

96. I agree with you..

It's digusting... Guess it's easier to be an asshole while your sitting in your chair... Nobody knows you, right?

I am disgusted.

[tomreedtoon]

104. We mocked them when they were alive. They didn't stop.

Anna Nicole Smith continued making an ass of herself, and encouraging more crappy TV. Tim Russert kept supporting Bush. Tammy Faye and her ex-hubby kept stealing money from little old ladies with their lies about Jesus. Mocking them when they were alive didn't do a damn thing, and our country kept circling the drain.

Maybe if we mock then when they're dead, and sensitive souls like you get the anger you should have had while these bastards were alive, THEN maybe things will change.

[cboy4]

106. Wow, you're an advocate of attacking people suffering

from cancer.

And you think someone making an ass of themselves on TV and "encouraging more crappy TV" is worthy of having their grave pissed on? :crazy:

You're quite the humanitarian, ha tomreedtoon?

[tomreedtoon]

107. And you advocate not attacking evil at all.

Gee, you could be part of the Democratic Congress under Bush. Let 'em rape the Constitution and Americans as long as you can smile and say good things about the bastards. Got your campaign signs yet?

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[easttexaslefty]

112. Maybe we should attack ideas not people

:shrug:

[librechik]

110. The death of a public figure is a natural time for re-assesment of his life and acts

both good and bad. Of course humans are going to do this, and how can you stop them? I submit that shaming them for improper (as you read them) responses is not effective, although it might make you feel better

Maybe some of us just don't have the proper religious attitude toward death, perhaps because we are not religious. This lack of respect seems to disturb some of you who are more religious. (or? can't imagine why it bothers you--sorry, I know I'm vulgar and rude))

I say:

Different strokes for different folks.

Live and let live; live and let die.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, especially about public figures. If that opinion outrages you and the way you were raised, it's a pity, but really nothing can be done. Try to tolerate the whole of humanity and its flaws, not accuse some of calumny for merely stating an honest opinion. I tried to tolerate Tim Russert, even though I thought he was wrong. And I see no reason, as one of his viewers, not to express my honest opinion of him, both before and after his passing. I'm mot an employee, a family member, or even a fan. Why should I show hypocritical respect? Are you going to fire me?

If some people had spoken out honestly at the right time, we might even have avoided this horrible Iraq invasion. If only Russert had spoken out, instead of getting in line.