I went to Hospital last night (Pissed-off Rant)

[BlueJazz]

Working out in the yard last evening....Cut little finger fairly bad...needed stitches.

That's the intro....
So I thought, well, better go get some stiches...so went to hospital.
They were nice and I received 5 stitches...was in there ...oh..about 1/2 hour.
I have insurance but have to pay 300 deductible for Emergency visit...Ok.

Fuck!..I called hospital today and asked about bill...Just Curious..

$4,748.76 Jesus Christ...they spent about 20 minutes on my finger.. (Did the stitches in around 8-10 minutes).

I mean..I don't have to pay but 300 bucks but how in the Holy Hell is some poor family going to pay that kind of ridiculous price?
By Poor...I mean, with no health insurance.

Son-of-a-bitch...When the Hell is this Country going to come into the 20th century or even the 21st century and have health insurance for all.

I STILL can't believe the $%^%#$ bill was the price of a Decent used car...for 20 Minutes!.. AAAGGGGHH!!

[Catshrink]

1. Ouch!

I did the same thing last Saturday. I went to urgent care instead of the ER thinking I just needed a tetanus shot. In fact, I got 4 stitches and the shot. My copay was $50. I don't know what the total bill was yet. $4700+ seems outrageous. How can they justify that?????

[bbgrunt]

69. they charge such outrageous prices

because they have to cover the costs of all the uninsured and those who can't pay--so those who have insurance get bilked. Those who don't have insurance get charged the same outrageous costs but end up in bankruptcy.

Nice system, eh?

[TalkingDog]

83. So how does that explain

the fact that you can get exactly the same treatment at 2 hospitals of like quality and the final cost to the patient from each institution can vary widely?

Because they aren't just shunting low pay/no pay costs off to those who CAN pay, they are actively ripping people off.

And I don't have the referring article in front of me, but here are small related examples of what I'm talking about:

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/healthday/080506/costs-can-vary-by-100-or-more-for-same-drugs.htm

The problem is recognized, but, hey, it's a "free market society" and all....
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/5/1384
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04162007/news/regionalnews/vary_odd_hospitals_regionalnews_tom_topousis.htm

On second thought....found it.
http://www.calpers.ca.gov/index.jsp?bc=/about/press/pr-2008/jan/hospital-costs.xml

“This report underscores what we have long suspected: that some hospitals are basing their prices to private insurers and patients on what they can get away with,” said Peter V. Lee, Chief Executive Officer of PBGH. “Not only do we see a vast disconnect between hospitals costs and what they charge, but to add insult to injury, it is incredibly difficult for patients and purchasers to do anything about it.”

[bbgrunt]

90. there is certainly abusive non-competitive

price gouging also going on in many cases. Even if that weren't the case, however, prices charged would be outrageous in order to cover the costs of all those without insurance and who end up not being able to pay. This is why it is necessary to force everyone into coverage as in SINGLE payer and nonprofit (not a plan that guarantees "universal" coverage by monopolistic insurance companies that forces all to pay either individually or through tax revenues)

[tazkcmo]

2. I don't want inscurance

I want health CARE. I'm on eof those poor people. $300.00 dedectuctible???? Nope, can't afford it. That's y I have a 15 stitch minimum.

[seabeyond]

3. took kid in. ended up being flu or something he ate, and throwing up all over..... 4k.

i hear ya.


it is ot just the insurance that is causing the problems... it is a whole.

dont even go to
cost of dental

[robinlynne]

4. As Michael Moore says, health care should not be about profit. period.

[Retired AF Dem]

85. Not about profit?

If no profit how do all those medical people get paid? I mean Michael gets paid plenty for his worthless movies, I guess health care people should work for free.

[Clark2008]

97. You would charge ONLY what you need to pay costs. DUH

I doubt it cost the hosptial nearly $5,000 to pay a doctor for 10 minutes, a nurse or two for 20 minutes, the receptionist and the meager air conditioning bill for the OP's time spent there. And, I'm betting the X-Ray machine, if they used one, was paid for several times already.

No one said it should be free because the staff certainly needs to get paid. What the poster meant was that it should be charged at a reasonable price.

[Longhorn]

5. Chances are, that's what they hospital will bill your insurance company

but that's not what your insurance company will pay. My insurance company is billed about $14,000 for each of my chemotherapy sessions (three days of infusions every three weeks) but they only pay about $5000. When you don't have insurance, they generally don't bill you as much.

That said, it's still ridiculously expensive! I hope you're doing okay and your finger heals well! :hi:

[BlueJazz]

13. Thank you much. Finger is going to be fine in about 4-5 days....

but my sense of outrage... I don't know.. :) :)

[truedelphi]

36. A lot of it is geographical.

In Marin County CA Marin General was charging the uninsured totally unacceoptable off-the-wall prices for ER visits. I think that there ws enough press that they had to quit hitting the uninsured with prices higher than the insurance companies received.

We live in the country and have both visited our very rural ER. Great service - and only a total of $ 540 in bills. (Same visit to ER in MArin would have been over $ 2,500.

[renate]

88. good luck with your chemo!

:hug:

[Longhorn]

91. Thanks!

I hope I only have a few more sessions to go! :hug:

[Mrs. Overall]

6. Oh my god.....that is completely outrageous.

I was in a serious car accident last week (I ended up being fine, just lots of bumps and bruises), but I had an ambulance ride and an emergency room visit that lasted several hours with tests.

If your cut little finger was almost $5,000, I can't imagine what my bill will be. I am dreading seeing the bill, since my health insurance isn't the best.

Something is seriously wrong with this system.

[unapatriciated]

62. I was also in a pretty bad wreck a couple of weeks ago...

ambulance ride, x-rays and ct scan bill was a little over 5,000. I paid $50 deductible to hospital and $40.00 deductible for ambulance. Cervical strain and bruising of rib cage but I'm doing much better than our car.


But if it is something catastrophic they will delay, deny and stall you for as long as they can. Been there done that and it is not fun especially when it is your child and their life depends on it.

[napi21]

7. I'd be interested to see the itemized bill on that one! I went to the ER

2 years ago for a broken ankle. They did several xrays, & put on a temp cast. It all took about 2 1/2 hrs and the total bill was around $4,000. Charges for xrays, the people to interpret them, etc. are not cheap, and I can accept that. I can't imagine why YOUR bill was so high! The only expensive part should have been the cost of the person who did the stitching. Hmmmm

[babylonsister]

8. Holy crap! $1,000 a stitch? That is just plain ludicrous. Call the BBB?

Is there anyone you can complain to? That's worthy of a rant; I don't blame you for being pissed off.

[grasswire]

9. a poor family isn't going to pay it

They will either get most of it written off or simply not go. Hospitals are required to provide assistance to the poor. And Medicaid is available in some circumstances.

[NotThisTime]

12. That's not true, and that's why many family's are in BANKRUPTCY

Insurance companies get to take some of that $$ off as THEIR special rate, someone without insurance HAS to pay that price unless they make less than 16 grand a year or whatever the hospital dictates to be indigent...

It is OUTRAGEOUS that hospitals charge this amount, insurance companies get a lower rate and normal people without insurance have to pay...

Just OUTRAGEOUS.... It's exactly what is wrong with healthcare and insurance companies

[Rosemary2205]

20. A poor family would not have assets to put into bankruptcy.

But yes, many MIDDLE CLASS families are in deep trouble because of healthcare costs.

[gaspee]

32. You're right

I don't have health insurance. Three years ago, I burnt my arms very badly - 2nd degree burns on the insides of both arms from elbows to wrists and some splash burns other places (boiling water)

Waited three days and then had to go even though I knew I wouldn't be able to pay. Long story short, $8,000 bill.

I make about 200 bucks a week - well, the bastards are still after me for the money. I don't have it and I can't get assistance. Good thing I don't own anything, huh?

[grasswire]

46. of course it's outrageous

But it is also true that Medicaid exists and that hospitals have assistance programs.

[ikojo]

79. Nearly impossible for a single adult with no children

to qualify for Medicaid.

Single adults...the forgotten demographic. We have it rough No second income on which to depend

[Dreamer Tatum]

51. Hospitals charge that much because of self-pay

About 10% of every uninsured billed amount gets paid; the rest is written off. Hospitals
make some attempt to recoup some of those losses by soaking insurance companies and other
third party payors. Not all, but some.

I agree that uninsured people shouldn't have to pay more for the same service than the insured,
but that has undergone a lot of legal scrutiny.

The saving grace is that if you don't pay because you simply can't, the hospital will treat you
again.

[Vinca]

10. That shakes out to nearly a thousand bucks a stitch!

I swear I'm going to learn how to put in my own stitches. How hard can it be?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

39. Super glue

I've seen a guy treat a half-inch deep saw cut on his leg with superglue.

amazing thing was, a year later you could barely see a scar. He figured if they used it on babies during neo-natal surgery it might work. I still haven't decided if he was being smart or monumentally stupid. :shrug:

[Vinca]

43. I've used super glue on small cuts and, of course, there are butterfly bandaids.

I swear I could do stitches, though, especially if they'd sell the darn Novacain over the counter. Still can't get over $1,000 a stitch.

[dragonlady]

56. Did you see Michael Moore's film Sicko?

In one of the first scenes there is a guy stitching up a really nasty laceration on himself. (I can't remember what body part was involved--I had to cover my eyes!)

[LeftyMom]

72. I've done my own stitches.

I'm clumsy, and sitting around in the ER is not my idea of a good time.

Probably not a bad idea in retrospect, less because of the stitches themselves (there's no real trick to them) than because the ER could have issued me some antibiotics. The cut didn't get infected, but I'd have been hating life if it had.

[unapatriciated]

63. actually if he took precaution in cleaning it-he would be ok.

They started using a type of supper glue on the battle field in Viet-Nam, it stopped the bleeding and gave them time to transport. Medical glue is a little different than what you buy in the store.

[LeftyMom]

71. Works great, as long as it's not near a joint.

Near the joint stitches are better, to keep the wound from being pulled back open when you move.

The superglue works great otherwise, they use it in the ER for smaller cuts, and midwives use it for tears that don't quite merit stitches.

[ikojo]

80. When I was a kid I had a nasty cut to my leg...I was taken to

the ER and given stitches. However when it came time to have the stitches removed, my mom had one of her hippie friends remove them (it HURT!)because she could not afford the doctor's office visit (we had no insurance). This was in the 1970s. I still have quite the scar and it was a long time before I'd wear shorts because I was ashamed of the scar and the poverty it represented.

[Captain Angry]

11. And that is why insurance costs so much.

20 minutes for $5,000 = gouging the insurance company.

Did they give you painkillers? Were multiple people working on you? Are you leaving out the part where they gave you a solid gold toilet? :-)

Glad you're ok. I'm afraid to have anything happen to me as I'm without insurance for 2 years now since the job left for India.

[Vincardog]

21. insurance costs so much because they want a 30% profit on the transaction. We need to kick

the parasitic corporations out of our health CARE system.

[Warpy]

14. Get an itemized copy

Check it carefully. If you have a friend in health care, have that friend check it with you to make sure you got everything listed.

This is more than I'd expect. I think they've padded the bill somewhere.

Uninsured people get hit with bills like this and the hospital will settle for half that amount--still an overcharge, IMO--thinking the uninsured will consider it a bargain.

However, if they start missing payments, they can lose their assets and have their wages garnished.

That's what happens to the uninsured.

[yellowdogintexas]

28. have no fear. The insurance company will audit it and there is a negotiated

rate the carrier will pay. If they think it is too far outside the bounds (the negotiated rate/payout) they will argue it.

[Clear Blue Sky]

15. Insurance companies pay a fraction of charges.

If charges reflect actual cost, the hospital will be paid far less than their cost, so the charges are falsely high. Like a store that is always selling their wares at "50% off". Their regular price is inflated so the discount price is a normal price. Just a silly game.

Self pay patients are almost always offered a steep discount so they pay approximately what the average insurance company would pay. Just like no one pays MSRP for a car.

[uppityperson]

18. Agree to most of that up to "offered a steep discount." You have to ask.

I have never been offered any sort of discount, but when I've expressed my shock and dismay and asked "what the hell am I going to do?!?!?" have been told I could fill out an application that would cut my bill in half.

I have talked with many other people who weren't offered anything, told to ask and they were told yes, they could apply for a discount. Unfortunately for 1, they'd already signed a payment in full thing already, got stuck with over $10,000 bill.

Ask. Always ask. Even for labwork or anything you get done. Ask since they may not offer.

[Clear Blue Sky]

26. In a non urgent situation, this can all be negotiated up front.

Problem is if it's an ER visit under urgent conditions. But with some fussing and persistence, they will cut a deal. From their perspective, it makes sense to get paid in cash what the insurance company would pay anyway rather than get paid nothing or have to turn it over to collections.

[NCDem60]

16. That's the non-insured price. If you have

Blue Cross they will pay somewhere around $800 and the hospital will write off the rest.

A little over a year ago I had a bad heart attack that included 2 full cardiac arrests. I was in the hospital for 8 days, 7 of them in CCU. The bill was $53,000. When I received my Blue Cross statement they payed $6,600 dollars to the hospital and listed the other $46,000+ as "amount you do not owe". Curious I called the hospital and was told that the amount Blue Cross paid was set by their contract with the hospital and the $6,600 figure was correct.

If I had gone in there uninsured the hospital would be after me for the entire $53,000. The whole system is rotten. I actually felt sorry for the hospital as they certainly gave me more than $6,600 worth of care.

[Dogmudgeon]

17. Simple: The poor no longer may own property

That's really what it comes down to -- if you screw up even once (and medical problems count as personal failings), you forfeit your right to be a property owner.

You also are subject to lectures on Personal Responsibility for the rest of your life.

The next big depression will bring serious change, but I fear that the cost may be a lot higher than we are used to paying as a nation, all because of the fantasy we call "capitalism".

--p!

[Rosemary2205]

19. You do not understand how the game works.

your insurance company has already contracted the cost of everything down to the last stitch. I'm betting they will pay no more than another $700. Certainly still very expensive.

Now, take someone with no insurance and little to no financial means. First, they will tell you the cost is $4700. The individual payer will call them up, probably in tears when they get the bill, and the hospital will tell them they will lower the bill down to what Medicare would have paid - which for 5 stitches on a finger is somewhere around $700. Most will make payments until this is paid off. Some can't pay and if their financial means are low enough they'll be declared indigent and not have to pay much if anything.

If Donald Trump shows up to get stitches he'll hork up $4700. But those folks are about the only ones. And they would actually be covering the costs for all those folks that didn't pay much if anything.

The hospital HAS to inflate the price to stay afloat. In fact, emergency rooms are such financial drains on hospitials that more than one hospital is electing to either close just the emergency room or the hospital all together.

Edit to add, folks in the middle class with no coverage would get kicked though. They might negotiate something like this down to something managable, but something really serious - a kid with a serious injury or illness, or a parent who need surgery -- even at "cut rate" it's going to add up fast and they likely will be forced to declare bankruptcy -- though in some cases now they can't put the medical bills into the bankruptcy........

[onethatcares]

23. not only that,

doctors are leaving along with the nurses, so you might find yourself in a hospital with no doctors and no nurses due to the high cost of malpractice insurance and those pesky lawsuits filed by people with things left in their bodies during surgeries. Imagine having to go in and work on yourself. I tried to give myself stitches once, but without painkillers, there was no way I was able to stick that curved needle into my hand. Another time, I shot a 12D nail thru my thumb, pulled it out, went back to work and then went home to drink a bottle of Rum which I succeeded in doing. No doctor bill at all.

[Dems4HowardDean]

24. Nope you are wrong. Doesn't work that way most of the time...

I went to the hospital for stomach pains. They gave me an over the counter pll for acid reflux.I was billed 1500 dollars. I didn't have insurance and I wasn't working still got the bill for 1500 hundred dollars. Well they did let me make payments! The pain returned a few months later and turns out it was my gall bladder. I can't afford to have it removed.

[Lorien]

42. Yep. I was insured and needed an EKG

and my insurance refused to cover it once the procedure was done, so I had to cough up the $8,200.00 myself. I went on a payment plan, but it added interest to the already huge bill.

Gall bladder surgery is $25,000.00 A friend of my mother's had it done. My mom's roommate couldn't afford surgery either, so she tried this: http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/1_pint_Olive_Oil.asp and it worked for her. I had a gallbladder attack three years ago and about thought that it would kill me, so I tried the same home remedy. It worked, but man-what a vile experience! Not as awful as being in debt for 25k though!

[Dems4HowardDean]

76. Thanks! I will will give it a try.

[hedgehog]

94. I love that Catch -22. The medical people run a test to rule something out,

but because it's ruled out the test isn't covered!

[canucksawbones]

22. Here in Canada

if you came into the ER, as a foreigner. I would have billed you about $100 for the medical services. That's everything, unless you needed X-Rays, then that might add $50.

I'm always amazed at the cost of simple things in the American medical system. In Canada I get paid about $28 for an office visit. I charge non-insured patients $25. I make pretty damn good money, around $12000 a month, overhead runs about 25%. I just don't understand the unbelievable amounts of money that the US medical system charges.

GK

[Ghost Dog]

53. It just has to be criminal, doesn't it.

And the UK's 'New Labour' party is working to get US corporations in to run (suck profits out of) the UK's NHS.

:mad:

[Wizard777]

55. Here in America. Our insurance companies will hospitals outrageous sums.

This is to keep health care priced out of the rage of most people. This in turn secures their customer base. If you think what the insurance industry did to NOLA over Katrina was bad. That's nothing! Just wait until you see what they've been doing to health care.

[backscatter712]

57. I wish I could K&R individual comments - this is EXACTLY it!

The insurance companies pay so much to drive up the cost, thus ordinary people are forced to go to them for health care. How do you think the CEO's able to afford that 250 foot yacht and the Lear jet?

Quite a racket they've got...

[Wizard777]

59. The insurance industry is just a ponsi scheme.

[KatyaR]

25. Holy shnikes, that's insane.

I cut my hand with a knife in December, but I went to an urgent care clinic instead of the ER. I figured if the UC couldn't handle it, they'd send me to the ER, and I knew it would be cheaper. Sure enough, they were able to clean it up and give me five stitches and a tetanus shot. They took my insurance information, so I didn't have to pay anything on the way out, and the total bill was right under $400, and my portion was less than $200.

The cash-only costs for medical care are outrageous. It's a wonder more people don't drop dead on the spot when they get their bills.

Glad to hear you're no worse for wear.

[Digit]

70. I was going to mention Urgent Care Clinics, but you just did

Although they are expensive for routine things, they are going to usually be far cheaper than an Emergency Room.

[papapi]

27. Your insurance be paying for some uninsured peeps to receive care...PLUS....

the insurance company will make a nice profit off of you too, as will the hospital.

I became disable three years ago. Waited two and a half years for Social Security disability to finally kick in. Had to have two operations in the mean time, one before I sold my house before foreclosure, the other operation after. I now have a $109,000 medical debt I can't pay because I had money on hand from the house sale when the second operation occurred. Reinvested the small equity in another house in a different state. Prices in my home state I could not afford. Will be moving soon. Got caught in the medical insurance loophole. I paid (or my employer paid) insurance premiums for me for thirty-five years. Now I will live indebted to corporate medical for the rest of my life. Fuck private insurance. It's a scam and a rip off. WE NEED UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE NOW!!!!!!!!

[unapatriciated]

68. I know what you are going through

In 1991 my son was diagnosed with Dermatomyositis, only after my HMO delayed testing for almost a year( it is a slow progressing disease). It's symptoms are similar to Lupus (which I recognized since it runs in the family) they refused to test him for it. The first year his medical bills were well over 200,000 my portion was a little over 20,000. His medication was over a thousand a month. I lost my job three years into his illness(he went in and out of remission until 2001). I had to sell my home to continue care, if you have assets you can not get help until you are on the street. I was lucky I had family I could move in with, some are not so lucky. So it is way past time for Universal Health Care.

I'm lucky my son survived (he is disabled) and I found a job with benefits and once again own a modest home. Many never get back on their feet.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

29. K&R This experience needs to a LTTE...

... to your local paper. The hospital should be asked to publicly explain that bill.

[Maine-ah]

30. hell, 24 hours of labor, and a c-section was 25k.

[barbtries]

31. that is outrageous

something's got to give

[electron_blue]

33. sounds really odd. That was half of what my

csection cost nearly 7 yrs ago. I don't suppose they made a mistake in the billing somehow, did they?

[windoe]

34. There's no way the surgical set, gloves and betadyne cost that much....

plus a possible tetanus shot and topical anesthetic. ER physician charge for the stitching? 4g no way, check out the itemized bill.

[reggie the dog]

35. I would pay one Euro

for such care here in France.

[truedelphi]

37. Sadly right now about $ 4,000 of our dollars is now equivalent

To one Euro!! (If not yet today, by tomorrow morning!)

[treestar]

38. It's because there is an insurance company to pay

If you were self-pay, they wouldn't charge as much.

[Ms. Toad]

48. It's actually the opposite.

The bill is the amount for self-pay. It is inflated to cover the costs not covered by their insured patients. The UCR amount may or may not be listed on the bill (but it should be listed on your insurance payment summary). Even though they are billed for the self-pay amount, the UCR amount generally corresponds to the amount insurance company has negotiated that they will actually pay. It is in the hospital's benefit to cut deals with guaranteed payors (the insurance companies). That way, they get the bulk of their expenses paid by someone they are certain has money to pay it. The self-pay person gets the full bill - they may not end up paying it all, but since it is so inflated over actual costs the few who do pay the full amount make up the difference between the insurance payments and full price.

If you have virtually no money, you are likely to have the right to have some of the costs forgiven. Look around (or ask) for forms to request free or reduced cost services.

If you have money (and aren't eligible for the free/reduced cost treatment), try negotiating. There are no guarantees, but some hospitals and physicians are willing to negotiate DOWN to what the insurance company has contracted to pay them. Last time I got in a bind (jerk of a doctor dropped my insurance carrier and didn't bother to tell me despite the fact that he had done the first stage of my daughter's surgery with the expectation of doing the second stage a year later), I negotiated with the doctor to accept what he would have received from the insurance company - somewhere around 30% of the self-pay rate. Fortunately, I was able to find a surgeon who was not only willing to schedule my daughter at the late date - but was a better surgeon.

[HughMoran]

40. ...and I though $5500 for a CT scan was a lot

WTF are these idiots thinking - are they trying to cause a revolution?

[Joanne98]

41. Let's make greed and crime punishable by death.

Then things will start to change. After a few executions!!!!!!

[laruemtt]

44. 2 years ago in st. lucia when dh was in med school,

i cut my finger pretty bad - had to have 6 stitches. went to the hospital down the street, was seen pronto, got it cleaned, stitched, dressed, and also got a tetanus shot. came back in a week to have stitches removed. no insurance. total cost: $14.00 u.s. dollars...

[Milo_Bloom]

45. My fiance had a baby 10 days ago...

... the bill was 30K from the hospital.

1K from our pediatrician to come in and check the baby out

no bill yet from the OBGYN.

6K of the hospital charges were for the dang bassinet they kept the baby in for 2 days.

[happydreams]

47. That'll teach you to be more careful....

((just kidding)). It sounds like a rip-off. It cost me $700 for a visit a few years ago when I badly bruised my hand while working. All I got was a brace (the kind you can buy at a drugstore for 15-20 dollars and some aspirin. I thought that was outrageous.
I'd call your state Attorney Generals office on that one.

[cascadiance]

49. This sounds like my visit. It could have been an "After Hours 2" script...

This happened about a month ago or so...

It was getting later in the evening, around 10 or so, when I started feeling some symptoms of a kidney stone. Having had one a while back in the past, and myself living alone, I didn't want to wait too long to get it dealt with in case it got severe. Kidney stones are also notorious for having symptoms being strong as they go through a part of your system and then go dormant and then kick in to high gear as they go through another. Someone has said they can be the closest a man can know how a woman feels when she's in labor.

Called the advice nurse, and they told me to go to emergency as I thought I might. I couldn't go to the one closer to me, as that closed earlier as a lot of the emergency facilities do now. Had to go one further down closer to the city.

I wound up there about midnight. At that time, my symptoms were just starting to fade a bit. I'd felt a bit feverish just before I drove down there... Wasn't going to go home though, knowing how kidney stones work.

Within a few minutes or so, I did get to enter myself in on the schedule for the waiting room. Then I started waiting in my marathon in the waiting room...

You could tell there were some people there with far worse afflictions waiting there too, and likely were there because they didn't have insurance too. They sat there for many hours too, but I knew that in my condition I was probably at the BOTTOM of the priority list to be seen.

I think they must have been short staffed on doctors that night (or at least UNDERstaffed, if this was by plan by our great HMO-land management).

After waiting about an hour or so, I finally got someone to give me a blood test. Was told to go back in the waiting room to wait. Then I had to go in to visit the insurance verification people (or whatever that is), and they had some weird room where they had a glass separation window (kind of like a prison). Don't know if they felt these people were likely to be threatened in emergency or what. Hadn't had that sort of experience before. Once filling out tons of forms and doing that for about 20 minutes or so, was told to out and wait in the lobby again.

Someone turned on one of the cable channels that had a multi-hour marathon best 100 comedies show, which showed clips of the 100 best rated comedies. They started when it was somewhere in the 50's... I was wondering if I'd get to see ALL of the remaining entries in that. I wasn't wrong! I did! Felt like I was living through one that belonged in that list.

I actually saw more janitors coming through and vacuuming the waiting room and cleaning the bathroom there than nurses or doctors through the night. Then around 4:00 AM some contractor came in through the door and started talking with the lobby staff. Then about 20-30 minutes later, we were told that we'd have to go back in to the emergency treating rooms and wait in various rooms/places there, since they were going to PAINT the waiting room then. YES, that's right, they were at that point at 4:30-5:30 AM were going to close the waiting room to paint it!

Sat around in the waiting room waiting in a hospital gown from around 4:00 AM-4:15 AM to around 5:30 AM-6:00 AM when finally I think the only doctor on staff had time to see me. She said that I was likely right in self-diagnosing myself as having a kidney stone, with higher blood levels, etc. and then quickly gave me a prescription for pain killers, etc. to take home with me, which I didn't use after that, since I really didn't have more pain symptoms after that. So I probably really didn't need to go to the emergency room that night as it turned out. And I lost a night of sleep and had to go to work late the next day, which I wouldn't have had to do without the lame 6 hour doctor visit.

And I look at my bill now and it also has the $250 deductible for it too, along with other minimum fees for doctor visit and prescription (total of $257) for basically wasting my time...

Our health care system just plain SUCKS now!

[hedgehog]

95. That reminds me of some of the all-nighters I went through sitting up in an ER

with a kid with asthma waiting to be seen. His symptoms would relieve themselves around dawn. After that happened twice, our family doctor prescribed a home nebulizer and arranged a free HEPA filter for my son's room.

[hedgehog]

96. Check out Obama's health care proposal - it's about more than insurance.

If you've spent any time at all sitting in an ER, you've got to believe that they could be run better!


My favorite ER story: ER staff members were flirting with the crew from an ambulance when a fellow the cops had brought in for a Psych evaluation drove off in the ambulance! We'd been sitting there for about an hour at that point, so we enjoyed the event!

[Tracer]

50. 10 Stitches. No insurance.

This was about 5 years ago. Stupidly gashed myself and went to the ER.

I had no insurance at the time (couldn't afford it, being self-employed). Told them that I was self-pay.

The bill?


$500.


Not too bad; $50 per stitch.


Why this amount vs. the HUGE amount BlueJaz's insurance was billed? A bird in the hand, I guess.


(Don't yell at me. I KNOW that $500 is way too much for a lot of people to pay. I'm 110% in favor of single payer health CARE).

[Booster]

52. My gall bladder operation was $44,000, which is offensive.

[rainbow4321]

58. Accckkkkk...

Don't tell me that....I've started having what I think are gallbladder problems (thanks family genetics!). Females in my family don't get to keep their gallbladders.

Pretty much why I will go and have anything I need done down at the hospital I work at even though it is in Dallas (as opposed to one closest to my house in a Dallas suburb).
If I have it done at my facility, it's a total $100 bill thru my work's insurance..no matter what is done or how long I am there (if I have to stay in the hospital, etc..).

Any hospital up by me and I think there is more out of pocket. Yeah, I would like to be near my house so my teen daughter can visit me more often, but there is no way in hell I can or will pay that 30%!


Being a nurse, I can tell you that facilities have gone as far to track stock room "scan rates". Heaven forbid a nurse takes so much as a bar of soap out of the stockroom to give a patient without $CANNING it first. I've seen scan rate percentages posted in each floor's stockroom---charts that show how YOUR floor is doing in comaparison with other floors. $$$$$$ is what it all boils down to for the hospitals.

[Booster]

65. Being a nurse maybe you can answer this question. I went to the

ER on a Saturday afternoon and was admitted to the hospital that night. Sunday, absolutely nothing happened. I think it's because they couldn't get a team together to do the operation, and that extra day could account for a lot of the
money. Then I stayed an extra 4 days after that even though I felt fine, etc. Is that a normal stay for a gall bladder operation?

[rainbow4321]

74. The Sunday "do nothing" stuff is BS

I've worked plenty of weekends and everything seems to come to a grinding halt...it's always the same "On MONDAY, they are going to do xyz". We always felt bad for people who got admitted on a Friday or Saturday cuz we knew that they would get **nothing** done til Monday unless it was a life threatening situation.

Waiting, IMHO, is a money issue with the hospital. They tend to run on a skeletal staff on the weekends so anything they can push off til Monday, they will--even if they have the ability to call people in, they won't.


Was yours taken out by lap (thru tiny holes) or did they have to open you up? If they have to actually open someone to take out the gallbladder then they are there for 3 days or so. They have to wait for initial signs of post op bleeding, fever, etc.. Then they wait for bowel sounds to come back and then to advance one's diet (once they actually start to be able to eat).

My mom had her's out, spent 1 night in the hospital, and was literally out dancing and drinking the night away 3 days later. My sis had a full hospital stay and was slower to bounce back.

I'm personally hoping (if it comes to the point it needs taking out) for the lap option as an outpatient maybe on a Friday and then back to work on Monday.

Stupid gallbladder..should had them take it out when I get my appendix out 12 years ago!

[Booster]

77. Mine was taken out by lap and I felt fine the very next day, but

still wasn't released. The lap method is really something; nothing to it for the patient. You've confirmed what I was thinking; that they were milking my insurance company. Hope you get the lap method also and good luck.

[ikojo]

81. Unless it's an emergency most insurancey companies

will not authorize/approve a hospital admission on a Friday or Saturday. They know that most procedures will wait until Monday, so they are loath to pay for two days where there may be no testing done.

[rainbow4321]

84. Not always true...

My former hospital routinely admitted cardiac cath patients on a Friday..and their cath was not scheduled til Monday. None of these patients were in any imminent life threatening situations. On the contrary, they would be up walking the halls, eating full meals, and never needed to call the nurse. They were just there filling up a room. No procedures scheduled for them during the weekend or anything.

Just more convenient for the cardiac cath doc/staff cuz the pt would already be there and prepped early Monday morning. Meanwhile, the insurance gets to pay for Fri, Sat, and Sunday.

Of course, this is also the hospital where as nurses we would see so many patients not be sent home "because they didn't want to go home today...no they are fine, they just want to stay" the docs would tell us. SO many times I would say "ok, then someone from the buisness office needs to go into their room with paperwork and say sign here..since your doctor has said there are NO medical reasons keeping you here, YOU are obligated to pay you bill for the rest of the time you are CHOOSING to stay here".
Of course THAT never happened. Easier for the hospitals to get the insurance money.
I never could figure out where those insurance people where who were supposed to be reviewing the bills for medical necessity. They sure seem to reject stuff for the people who REALLY need something done!

[ikojo]

89. The HOSPITAL may admit patients but those days

where the INSURANCE company concludes were not medically necessary will be denied. I see it all the time at work...the patient will be in the hospital for x number of days but if the nurse from the insurance company feels some days were not medically necessary those days will be denied or paid at a much reduced rate.

Since most hospital bills are paid at a flat contracted rate the patient rarely knows that days have been denied.

Most of the large insurance companies have a staff of nurses who visit the hospitals where said insurance company has patients. Those nurses read the charts and based upon data compiled by the insurance industry for similar patients with similar diagnosis, they decide whether to suggest to the hospital that the patient be discharged. Insurance companies would much rather pay for a visiting nurse at home than for a hospital stay.

[Maine-ah]

66. sounds just like the women in my family.

[rainbow4321]

75. Yep..every generation so far for us

Maternal Grandmother, maternal aunt, my mother and sister all had it removed...the sister that still has her's has occassional gallbladder attacks. All of them in their 40's or 50's (I'm 43).
I've already given my two daughters (17 and 21) the "not something you have to worry about NOW, but keep this in mind in, oh, 30 years from now" talk.

[tavalon]

54. I'm in healthcare myself and this is mostly a room charge

However, the biggest reason that room charge is so high is that there are leaches all over the system. We need to scrap the system we have and get universal health care, not universal health insurance. That's a huge leach right there. We need to better figure out liability issues and make getting bad doctors and nurses out of the system a priority but not destroying the good ones who made one bad decision or just couldn't prevent some injury. We need to reform the regulating agencies and cut out much of the upper management of the hospitals and those regulating agencies. The amount of money they siphon off is amazing and the stupidity that trickles down to those of us in the trenches of this healthcare battlefield should make the baby Jesus cry.

These are but a few of the problems. This is a system too broken to be fixed. It must be completely changed.

I wonder how I've managed to stay in healthcare so long without getting completely burned out and I think the two main reasons are that I moved around a lot (different hospitals=different problems) and the patients. When I can push all that other bullshit away and for just a moment in time, actually help another human being in a substantial way, it makes up for a lot of stupidity.

I sure could do without ever hearing JCAHO or "Magnet Status" or the myriad of other ivory tower idiots who come around to tell me I'm doing my job wrong, when so many of them have never worked at a bedside or did so in the 1950s!

[rainbow4321]

60. Just checked my recent ER visit bill

Dehydration during a stomach virus.

Bill came to $1100..$700 (!!) for the services (room, 1 bag of IV fluid, lab, and 1 drug) and $400 for the doctor who saw me. I was only there for about 2.5 hours. And I had the doc in the room for maybe 10 minutes.

Fortunately, my total out of pocket for the visit after Aetna got done doing their part was $100.

And they wonder why so many people without insurance wait til they are on death's door before they seek care in the ER/hospital.

[backscatter712]

61. On the insurance side of things.

I just got laid off my job a week before Friday, and I just got the packet with COBRA info in it.

$421 per month for health insurance. Just for myself, I don't have a wife or kids.

I've got money to survive a few months of unemployment, but I'm thinking of doing without health insurance...

[mnhtnbb]

64. My hip replacement with 3 nights in hospital was $37,000 last August.

Hubby is retired from the VA and his BC/BS Federal paid, with the exception of $100. copay.
That didn't include the surgeon's fees; I think we paid $500 to him.

[GreenPartyVoter]

67. Horrific! It seems the only civilized countries are the ones with single payer care

[King Coal]

73. Believe it or not, I've sewn my own cuts up myself, and my grandkids'.

$5000.00 will make you do it yourself. It's not right folks. We can do better, but you know that.

[ikojo]

78. Your insurance company will probably pay 65% or so

of the billed amount.

On top of your ER visit you will have the bill from the ER physician who is often contracted by the hospital and not a hospital employee.

[Skidmore]

82. If you were uninsured, they would have charged you even more.

Insurance, however, is a scam these days.

[Cadfael]

86. Spent 6 days in the hospital last month...

bill was over $48,000...and there was no surgery involved.

[Skrelnick]

87. Insurance companies only pay about 20% of the total bill

They have "contractual rates" that they pay to doctors which are far less than what the doctor actually charges.

[Cleita]

92. Your insurance probably will not pay that.

If the hospital accepts assignment, they will have to take what the insurance company considers fair compensation and it will probably be a third of that amount, still an awful lot. Unfortunately, the poor man with no insurance will be billed that. This is why we desperately need single payer universal health coverage where the fees are determined on an annual basis between the government and the health care givers as fair.

[KillCapitalism]

93. Healthcare costs out of control!

30 minutes of a Dr.'s time + five stitches...in a sane health care system that shouldn't even cost what you paid for your deductible.

[Diclotican]

98. Bluejazz

Bluejazz

Dam, that was expensive... I would say I am lucky then, to live in a country where the health care is almost free, we we pay for it by the taxes, but when we need it, we could get it also...

Have hurt my knee, and it is possible that I need a surgery to get it right.. My right knee is double the size of my left, so I guess something is wrong inside... Was in the emergency room, waited some time.. Got into the doctor after a while, a very nice doctor if I would say it.. He was seeing my right knee, and he found out what was wrong.. Was given me some painkillers, some advices, and a paper I should give to my own doctor. It looks like I need an MR scan.. After that, I was out of the emergency rom, and I even have not to pay some for the privilege.. The doctor say that it was okay, I have waited for some time... I was surprised, but glad if I have to say it too.. Good old "universal health care"....

Now I have to contact my doctor, get the MR, and then it might be a operation for my, to fix what is wrong.. I hope not, but I guess it would be that... No I have not to pay for it, I have already paying for it by the taxes;):. I would say I would rather pay my taxes, and given a decent medical need when I need it. Then to go down the tube if you was been sick and need medical need... I am sure that I could not afford the type of medical system you have in the US...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[DiverDave]

99. I was in the hospital for 10 days

with pneumonia, the room and board alone was 39K, the total bill was for 108K
For TEN DAYS!

Our system is soooo broken.
We ALL (Doctors and Nurses) could have stayed at Club Med for less...