Let's face it, folks: the GOP is going to steal this election.

[AndyA]

They know there's no way in hell they can possibly win it.

The price of oil is soaring, and high gas prices are beginning to pinch every American that's not in the top percentage of wealth.

The new Iraqi government is just not cooperating as expected, and things in the Middle East just aren't getting better.

Home foreclosures are skyrocketing out of control.

The economy is slowing, if not already near death.

Food is becoming so expensive many families are not able to pay other bills just so they can eat.

Unemployment is rising, and those good paying jobs just don't exist any longer.

We have documentation that proves Bush and Co. LIED to Congress, to the American people, the United Nations, and other countries in the lead up to the Iraq war.

pResident Bush authorized torture of prisoners.

The Democratic-led Congress is beginning to show signs that they've discovered where their nut sacks are, and appear to be coming to the realization that Americans are ANGRY at the lack of oversight the past year and a half. They realize we want CHANGE and as conditions continue to worsen for Americans over the hot summer months, more and more of us will DEMAND action against those responsible. And all roads lead to Bush/Cheney/Rove.

Now we're hearing reports that a war with Iran is looming.

Does anyone believe that there's any chance at all that a Dem is going to win the White House in November? It isn't going to happen, folks. No way. They know their crimes, and they know what their future holds if someone else controls their destiny.

All of the elements of the previous elections are still in place. A right-leaning Supreme Court, electronic voting that can be controlled, and Congress members with as much to hide as Bush and Cheney.

No matter how high the enthusiasm, no matter how much we want change or how much we want to make history, the powers that be at the moment have already put in place a plan that will protect their future interests. You can make book on it.

No way they're walking away from this and handing over the reigns to someone they can't trust.

[uppityperson]

1. Try. The word is "try", which is why we can't be complacent. eom

[blm]

12. Right - plus we have a DNC working to STRENGTHEN state party infrastructures to prevent

the RNC from controlling the election process with no counter the way McAuliffe's DNC allowed.

[Kermitt Gribble]

119. “Do or do not... there is no try.”

-Yoda

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. No, they are NOT.

[Skittles]

6. they've stolen the last two presidential elections, Peggy

the only way to stop them is for it to be a blow-out for our side

[CaliforniaPeggy]

8. You're absolutely right, my dear Skittles!

And a blow-out on our side is just what's going to happen!

Of course, we must work for that...

I'm planning on being part of that campaign!

Just because I'm confident doesn't mean I'm complacent...

:hi:

[LaurenG]

73. Ya gotta love a Peggy response

Just because I'm confident doesn't mean I'm complacent... :hug: YAY!

[Skittles]

93. it was indeed a good response

I know Ms. Peggy tends to believe the best in people but if she was unaware of stolen elections I would have KICKED HER ASS and MADE HER AWARE - yes INDEED! :hi:

[LaurenG]

97. LOL Skittles! :) nt

[OhioChick]

15. You got it....

When these debates start up and when the average American sees what McCain really stands for....it'll be a landslide.

Fingers Crossed.

[Skittles]

94. the average American does NOT watch debates

no INDEED

[blm]

44. State party infrastructures are in MUCH stronger shape than in the past 15 years.

and the thefts have been county by county. Dean has given them attention, money and muscles that many of those states hadn't seen in the last 4 election cycles.

It is the RNC that has weakened across the country. And THAT is the difference a Chairman with a GOAL to win for all Democrats makes to the DNC.

[Vincardog]

3. And you propose we all just shoot ourselves? Give up and allow them to loot and pillage?

FUCK THAT

[DogPoundPup]

7. If it keepes going, we'll have to loot and pillage to get

gas $ to get to the polls to vote.

[AndyA]

9. I proposed nothing of the kind in my post.

I merely pointed out the obvious.

[Mz Pip]

4. I don't think so

I don't even think they want to win. Things are such a mess that they'll be more than happy to sit this one out in hopes that Obama isn't successful and then they can run on his failures in 2012.

McCain is a disaster of a candidate. They are throwing him to the wolves since they never really liked him all that much anyway.

[AndyA]

11. None of them will chance spending the next 4-5 years in court defending themselves.

And they certainly don't want to risk jail time. They are running out of time to cover their tracks. Whether they want the White House or not, they cannot afford to not keep it.

[NCDem60]

30. Everyone will get a pardon.

[ThatsMyBarack]

41. I've been thinking that, too--sort of.

Seems to me that Mc* doesn't even WANT to be POTUS. :shrug:

[VP505]

5. Them can't steal it

unless we LET THEM do it!

[AndyA]

14. They stole it in 2000. And in 2004.

They have so much more to lose this year.

You think they're going to just give it all up? No way.

And they've now had almost limitless power over the last 8 years to devise new schemes to steal elections. Perhaps they have something new up their sleeves for 2008...

[melody]

21. There's one thing that stops these people -- rage and public demonstration

There's no way they're putting this map back in the envelope. No way.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

31. Rage and public demonstration? They love it!

Our rage is music to their ears. Democrats shouting, crying, whining? No sound so sweet to Rove or Cheney.

We need to beat them by a wide margine. Not by one or two states, which they can apparently steal successfully.

[melody]

33. No they don't -- research the last 150 years of BushCo

Civil unrest causes severe financial problems for the infrastructure -- jails, police, etc. That anger is turned
on the wealthy and powerful.

We definitely need to beat them but they WON'T be able to steal it obviously this time.

[gullwing300]

101. You're right...I keep forgetting how all the rage and worldwide demonstrations stopped the Iraq

invasion.

[Bluenorthwest]

105. That was not rage

Those were polite suburban psuedo protests, people marched around and then went back to work for the War Machine, feeling vindicated. Rage? The Iraq 'peach marchs' were rage? What a joke. They were an empty gesture by folks who really did not give a shit. I saw no tax protests. I saw no one drop out of the system. No. They all played the real estate buble and the oil bubble and bitched that an obvious war was needed, but rage? No.

I'm suprised they even bothered to march. They had no intention of stopping it in any real and meaningful way. In fact, they loved the war, bought SUVs and drove them to the 'protest'. Their demand supplied the war. Rage? They begged for it, asked for it and paid for it. And then they nominated a guy who did the same, said it was stupid but voted for it anyway. That is not rage, that is being an accomplice.

[gullwing300]

107. Oksy, so what's the answer? I took part in hundreds of demonstrations in the late 1960s

over the VN "war" and they eventually paid off. We were evidently more dedicated back then...

[melody]

111. There was the draft back then ... there isn't now

There was also open reporting.

Now that the truth is finally getting through (to those who aren't as aware), the viewpoint has changed.

[gullwing300]

113. Yes there was the draft, for sure. How that affected elections, I have no idea.

...

[melody]

110. Is this going to be the new troll incursion?

Yelling that Obama isn't going to "stop the war"? The faux-supporters of Hillary days are over, I guess.

[uppityperson]

27. so what do you recommend? If you are merely pointing out that fact, what do you recommend?

Give up? Work harder? Tell us, what do you recommend we do?

[AndyA]

34. I don't really know that I'm in a position to recommend anything.

But I do believe something needs to be done in the area of election fraud.

Others are much better informed of the current status of electronic voting.

But I see the writing on the wall: voter I.D. laws being enacted, the gay marriage thing...again...

They aren't going to give it up, and I can see that. I hope by having civil discussions, someone will come up with ideas on how to prevent it.

[bdamomma]

46. the whole process of voting and electronic voting should have

reformed back in 2000. Unbelieveable can't we have one standardized way of voting. We just have to get out there like we did in Nov. 2006 shake them up but good.

[Posteritatis]

91. If it's three in a row, I hope people come up with uncivil ideas

But this emo whining about how the election's already a foregone conclusion so nothing we do will prevent anything other than a McCain presidency isn't exactly going to help. I know despair is ever so satisfying and saves people a lot of effort, but it's not useful.

[VP505]

29. Sure they stole 2000 and 2004.

That's why we have to more watchful, get out the vote to overwhelm the polls and NOT LET them do it again.

[cali]

39. answer this, oh oracle: How come the great, omnipotent GOP couldn't steal

a single Congressional special election this year? All three were in heavily red districts, and they lost all three. And how about 2006? This is neither 2000 nor 2004.

[warren pease]

51. They didn't have to steal anything in 2006...

All they had to do was sit back and watch the blue dogs pollute the house and senate with closet GOPers hiding behind that little (D) after their names.

And for dessert, they got Pelosi and Reid, which is like getting Mary Poppins as your parole officer.

Pelosi never met a money-for-blood-and-oil bill she wasn't in love with. Reid never met a GOPer he wasn't scared to death of.

The GOP continues to just threaten filibusters and Reid throws up his hands and surrenders. He's not one for sleeping bags and bath robes in the senate chambers, I guess.

All he really has to do is call their bluff and tell them to start talking and keep it up until their throats rot away. But that would harm the happy spirit of bipartisanship he's worked to hard to foster. And which is working so very well.

So, summing up:

They didn't have to cheat, although it's documented by at least a dozen reporters (who can't get their stories into US mass media, of course) that the dems started out about 4 million votes in the hole nationwide.

When public revulsion for these swine overcame that handicap and gave dems majorities in both houses, the GOP pollsters and campaign managers were unconcerned because they knew the score. Even a dem victory in about 40 or so house districts wouldn't do a thing for the dem legislative agenda -- whatever the hell that was before Pelosi started taking things off the table in an unprecedentedly stupid move of unilateral political disarmament.

Oh yeah... They wanted to implement the recommendations of the 9/11 commission, since revealed as pure political theater directed from the white house and designed to present the appearance of a thorough investigation while avoiding, distorting or just ignoring any facts that conflicted with the official Bushie big lie.

Better yet for the piggies, dems ended up with such a narrow majority in the senate that they have to put up with the intolerable Senator Joementum (asshole - Tel Aviv) and keep his treasonous ass happy or gee whiz, he'll become an official GOPiggie and there go the committee chairmanships. Reid would, of course, intervene with the usual iron fist but Mr. Independent can tell him to buzz off and that's exactly what Reid will do.

It's with great glee that I read about Obama's little chat with Holy Joe the other day. I'm sure Reid was just working up to the exact same confrontation but Obama beat him to it by minutes.

If nothing else, I hope ol' Joementum gets frequent icy chills up the empty tube where his spine would normally have been, wondering if Obama's actually going to find him in a back alley some moonless night and beat the living shit out of him.

I've never paid to watch a sporting event on TV, but I'd gladly fork over whatever they wanted to see that one. But then, it would be on youtube for free within a few minutes after the final blows landed, so I'll probably remain a pay-per-view virgin.


wp

[robinlynne]

82. Actually 13 congressional seats were contested. In each instance a republican took the

seat through some sort of election fraud. The Dems chose not to investigate. I repeat chose not to investigate.

[warren pease]

83. Wow. I hadn't heard that before...

Where can I find specifics on who and where? I did a few google searches but I'm apparently not asking the question properly.

Also, which entity within the dem party would be in position to decide whether or not to investigate? Is that the DNC -- the Howard Dean DNC? It's hard to imagine Dean letting that one go. I think under the happy talk he truly detests the modern brand of republicans and everything they embody.


And here I was having a nice calm morning, yet to have my daily Pelosi/Reid moment of sheer fury reading about their latest cave-in or other Bushie-enabling outrage.


wp

[robinlynne]

112. no, not the DNC. It was a specific committee in congress of either 5 or 7 members,

the majority Democrats, the minority Republican. (I had never heard of any of them.)
To read about this, I would say to look through election protection websites searching for 2006.

The bigger ones are:

bradblog
bev harris' site,

If you google Florida 13, you will read about the biggest theft, the only one which was "investigated', but which actually was not investigated. Sorry I'm sleepy and the memory is only half there. (The republican won by just over 300 votes, but 18,000 votes were missing in a highly Democartic district.)

also michael collins aka autorank has a website called electionfraudnews.com.

also san diego had a very strange congressional election.

[warren pease]

114. Thank you, RobinLynne...

...now get some sleep.


;-)

wp

[annabanana]

62. They were caught unawares and unprepared...

They didn't think they were vulnerable there..We actually won many more seats in '06.. just not by a big enough margin.

We will have to swamp the machines and make the election so lop-sided that any other proposed result is absolutely laughable.

[barbtries]

72. excellent point

i think the answer is what has to happen in the general election: too many votes for the democrats to defeat it.

[Chulanowa]

81. We're so far ahead...

In '00 they had dissatisfaction with the Clintons.
In '04 they had the rah rah war thing going.
In both races, the Democrats were only campaigning in "guaranteed" states.

The Republicans can't steal an election unless it's close. And it's not going to be close this time.

[StarryNite]

36. The best predictor

of future behavior is past behavior. They did it twice in a row. They will do it again if they can. The question is how do we prevent that from happening?

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

10. If they could,...but, there's way too many looking right over their shoulders.

The only way they could steal it is if they are willing to stop it.

If they stop it,...whew, brother!!!

[gatorboy]

13. Considering how openly approving McCain is to Bush's unpopular policies I agree they may try.

But I'll be damned if I'm going through another four more years of this!

[dinalight]

16. Conspiracy theories. There's NEVER been any proof of fraud.

[AndyA]

18. What rock have you been under the last 5 years?

There is overwhelming evidence that the elections were not accurate.

You haven't been paying attention. Or perhaps you're pleased with how things turned out?

[think4yourself]

19. You're joking, right?

You need to add the :sarcasm: thing.

[Vincardog]

20. There has been proof of electoral theft. Never any proof of Vote Fraud.

[MrCoffee]

25. Wheeee!

:popcorn:

[gatorboy]

26. Oh boy. We got a live one.

Enjoying the Saudi teat, are ya?

[underpants]

32. Welcome to DU

:hi:

we like to welcome everyone around here

[az chela]

38. Now go home.With support like yours we dont need you on here

[Elwood P Dowd]

42. Freeper alert. The freepers always say there has NEVER been any proof of fraud.

And yes, most of them capitalize NEVER. I'm series......


:beer:

[Vickers]

53. Can you prove that you aren't a fucking idiot?

Mind you, I'm not CALLING you a fucking idiot, because it would be very very naughty (and against the rules!!) for me to call you a fucking idiot.

So really, I'm not calling you a fucking idiot, heavens no! That ain't my style.

I'm just asking you to PROVE you're not a fucking idiot.

Oh, and welcome to DU!!!

[barbtries]

74. are you on the right board?

you should do some homework before you make a comment like that. right now i'm reading Greg Palast's Armed Madhouse. there is plenty of proof - 2000 and 2004 were both stolen by the republicans. been watching faux news instead of reading? excuse me, that statement is way wrong.

[MrCoffee]

75. Not anymore...tehehe

[TheWatcher]

87. You're asking it to read?

You're being a little unrealistically presumptuous there.

Baby steps. Baby steps. :)

[barbtries]

90. lol

turns out the person won't be able to even look at my response let alone read it. apparently it was on the wrong board.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

92. ELECTION FRAUD ~ Beginner's Guide

"If you are asked by elections officials what gives you the right to watch over the elections that grant all the legitimate power and money the government ever gets, and why a government official shouldn't be trusted to count secretly the processes that determine the government's own money and power, since you've got lots of things to do, just tell them:

‘Thomas Jefferson sent me.’

Remind them that... You will have plenty of energy and time to do these tasks to protect freedom and democracy, if you just remind yourself of what others have sacrificed so that you could enjoy democracy, and consider whether we have the right to allow democracy to literally disappear on our watch by our inaction. Then you'll be a sentinel of democracy, one of democracy's real defenders."
—Paul Lehto April 18, 2006
- our system of government is not based on trust; it's based on checks and balances.
Link- http://organikrecords.com/corporatenewslies/beginner_v2.htm

Clint Curtis ; Testimony Under Oath:
"Secret Election-Rigging / Vote-Flipping Software"
8 min clip from David Earnhardt's documentary Eternal Vigilance: The Fight to Save Our Election System.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9BiVJucsM4

[FiveGoodMen]

17. Let's hope there IS an election as opposed to a new war and martial law.

[LanternWaste]

22. They don't possess

They don't possess the infrastructure, the support, the loyalty, or the political capital anymore. Sure, they can try-- just as readily as two-legged horse can try to win the Triple Crown, but odds are against them.

So yeah-- I firmly believe that on day, early in January of next year, we'll be popping corks and congratulating Pres. Obama and each other for a fight well fought...


The Secular End-Timers crowd. About on the same level as the Rapture Ready Board...

[TheDebbieDee]

23. In November, we will have to be ready to TAKE IT BACK

if it is stolen.

[bdamomma]

48. and one thing I do not want to hear is LETS MOVE ON or GET OVER IT

if they do steal it, but mc same is their boy, but then again will the repigs just fall in line and hail john as their new leader, and go off the cliff with him. Also we need to take more House and Senate seats, so we will be fighting for our own survival.

[peacetalksforall]

24. 50-50 plus URGENT WORK FOR US.

Some of them don't want to win - they want to pass off the problems. Cheney wants another eight so they can bury and burn the evidence of their thefts, lies, deaths, destruction.

There is probably a battle going on about what they should do.

Do not forget for one minute that they are somewhat patient in their chosen destiny - to rule this country and the world for their corporations and barons.

There are all kinds of other positions that have to be filled. Just because they may want the Dems to win the WH, they don't want to lose any Congressionsl seats, judgeships, their AGs, their Supreme Court. We must fight for all the new voters - to make sure their vote counts and get all those other seats.

For us it's evident what we have to do - (from another post I made) -

This is the MINUTE for all of us to decide whether we're going to
educate ourselves about the way the votes have been stolen from us in the past and what to do to prevent it happening again - and do it peacefully with brains and determination.

Needed: THOUSANDS of volunteers who will watch every movement of the votes, prevent caging, prevent wrong messages. Now is the time to ask Air America or some communication system to allow some air time to be able to counter all those horrid letters and directions to get minorities away from the voting booths. Arrange it now so that people know where to call to confirm that they are going to the correct place, on the correct day, at the correct time. We must reverse the trend of allowing their church to run our governments next to the ceo's and barons.

With all these new voters and knowing all the tricks they pulled in the past, now is the time to set up pretend-voting rooms so that each person can get a walk-through and understanding of how to check-in, how to fill out the ballot, how to read it, how to make sure it is accounted for.

NO MORE catastrophes of dishonesty, misunderstanding, confusion. Reported on tv, then forgotten. Each precinct needs a walking, breathing SCOPES type operation.

[0rganism]

28. That's been my fear since 2004

The crimes they've committed, there's just too much at stake for them to allow an honest election. The GOP bigwigs can't take that chance. It didn't even matter who the Democratic nominee would be, they'd still have to steal it just to stay out of jail. They're overdrawn at the corruption bank, and can't afford even the possibility of an honest, transparent executive branch that lets the truth out.

Furthermore, every major mechanism that enabled the 2000 election theft remains in place, and some resources have even been strengthened.

Democrats will need to overcome more than the latent racism of a quarter of the population. If we win in November, it'll be despite the best efforts of some of the biggest crooks who ever walked the planet.

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

35. I share your fear - this is why we have to have so many voters out that it's not even close

I just signed up to volunteer for Obama - I haven't received any marching orders yet, but I'll go door-to-door, answer phones, stuff envelopes, register voters - whatever I need to do. It really sucks living in Texas, but we have to try, don't we?

[az chela]

37. With all your negativity you need to get out of the democratic party

I am very optimistic that BARACK will win

[zotguy]

40. If Obama beat Hillary, he'll beat McCain

Back at the beginning, nobody thought Obama had a chance. He's changing the rules. He's not going to let the GOP steal it.

[bdamomma]

43. we cannot let them do this to us again.

no way.

[ThoughtCriminal]

45. I have some doubt that they want this term

beyond hold on to enough for filibusters in the Senate. They may want somebody else to inherit this train wreck so they can point fingers.

[Frank Cannon]

67. Oh, there's no doubt in my mind; they're throwing it

No way are they going to allow one of their own to take the heat for Bush's massive fuckups and wanton destruction, so they've put forth the most uninspired candidate they could possibly come up with--a guy who doesn't even seem like he wants the Presidency himself.

The Corporate-owned media is sticking very tightly to the script: The war's going okay. The economy's not that bad. Low unemployment is just because of kids getting out of school. As soon as Democrats are in the White House and Congress, you're going to instantly hear about how bad things REALLY are, and the Dems will be blamed. The Republicans will then have a chance to go back to robbing again until our country is in a literal smoking ruin.

[Bensthename]

47. I agree they are probably thinking that. But could they possibly pull it off?

The people on the dems side are thinking the same thing as you. Hopefully the dem strategists are planning their counter for voting fraud, fear mongering, etc..

[area51]

49. Maybe.

However, I think they want a democrat to win the White House, as the economy is in such bad shape, they will need a demo to win in order to try to pin the blame for it on them. However, in order to frustrate anything a demo prez could do, I can see them making sure that the nazi party has a majority in the congress.

[New Dawn]

50. I agree, I suspect this election will be stolen just like the last two.

Except this time the corporate media will claim that their hero, John McCain, had an "amazing upset victory."

[Runcible Spoon]

52. Just Let them fucking TRY IT!

I'm itching for a revolution anyway! Bring back REAL Democratic principles to our government!

[WritersBlock]

54. I agree. We're already seeing the setup in the "polls" that have McCain & Obama so close.

There was a post in GD the other day to that effect.

I think we need to be very diligent. We're dealing with people who have continually shown a blatant disregard, verging upon contempt, for the welfare of this country in both foreign and domestic policy. They will not relinquish power willingly.

[ogsbee]

57. Most pollsters are simply part of the Propaganda Ministry

1. Email, call, go to message page of newsoutlets that feature ridiculous polls. Believe your instincts or your nose before rotten, lying polls.

2. Are there any liberal millionaires who will bankroll liberal thinktanks to do true polling? (Of course, a co-opted progressive thinktank is useless -- Stalin: What's the best way to handle dissent? You lead it.)

[live love laugh]

55. "Too"...you meant "steal this election 'too'". nt

[sufrommich]

56. Gosh,we're doomed.

Why bother working for our candidate or voting at all.:eyes: :puke: :crazy:

[kenny blankenship]

58. Yeah, and it will be their last if they do.

I don't think they will.

[roamer65]

59. It will be the end of the "United States".

Imagine if Hoover stole the election in 1932. Same result.

[ensho]

60. kick

nt

[readmoreoften]

61. Nah.. Multinational Capital wants a Democrat this time. Keep it balanced.

They know no American president will mess with their money.

[ogsbee]

63. Keep exposing the three lie pillars of our compromised democracy

The lie pillars are 1. we have a free media not a government controlled propaganda apparatus, 2. we have true opposition parties, and 3. voting truly counts. Rather than a true democracy we now live in a managed democracy (or we have as much democracy as our rulers will allow) IMO. We should attack these pillars relentlessly, the Rethugs will have to back off or risk exposure and the sheeple waking up. Our rulers can't allow the masses to wake up to the truth. Thus voting really counts only if the polls are overwhelming. They didn't dare steal the 2006 elections, like they did the 2000 presidential, the 2002 congressional, the CA gubernatorial race, and the 2004 presidential race. If races are close to 50-50 or if our fraudulent media (including most polling outfits) can persuade the public that it is 50-50, then they will steal the election without any problem. Much of the DLC wing of the Democratic Party will not only acquiesce but actually help them, e.g., Lieberman in Florida 2000. But even in 2006, our candidates did not deliver what we the voters expected of them.

Our rulers don't care about us rattling away in our internet ghettos. So the question (the million dollar question) is how to get our message out to the masses. We need to expose fake Democrats, attack the media at every turn (the term MSM is simply not pejorative enough, let's use presstitutes, newswhores, Pravda USA, corporo-fascist liars, the Propaganda Ministry, etc. -- anything that will jar an accidental listener) and question every DRE result. Our voting system is simply illegitimate and we need to shout this from every rooftop.

Now it might be my imagination, but sometimes it seems I have gotten an emotional response from major TV/cable news outfits to zinger comments. If you go to their websites they almost all have comment pages, that usually don't even require an email address (but of course, they can record your unique IP address (if you wish to avoid this, use a library, internet cafe, or a proxy, such as TOR available through eff.org)). It seems to be a historical trait of the lying, fascist mind that they're very touchy -- criticisms are taken very personally, they don't like to be called on their frauds. So maybe it's not my imagination that I've gotten a response. I believe the newsrooms and newspersons truly believe they have us fooled, let's call them on it.

This seems so little. People are used to following leaders, but the Propaganda Ministry won't allow truly boat rocking leaders to develop if they can help it. Obama seems promising, we'll see. There seems to be a fight within the elite, perhaps one wing has decided to take down the BFEE -- see McClellan's book, MSNBC's treatment of Bush, Richard Clark's statement that the architects of the Iraq war shouldn't be allowed back into polite society. This could be an opportunity for us to spread even more of the truth.

Long range goals are easy -- no computerized voting and a breakup of media monopolies. But for now we have to fight the corporo-fascist media every step of the way.

[DFW]

64. Oh, they'll try. There is one thing the GOP fears more than both oil AND the Dow at 300:

And that is the next Democratic Attorney General.

Depending on who it is, and what instructions and leeway
he or she gets from the White House, a LOT of them are
looking at some serious jail time, or permanent exile
at Halliburton HQ in Dubai.

The next Justice Department worthy of the name under an
aggressive Democratic Attorney General would need more
prosecutors than the States of Texas, California and New
York combined, as well as new country club prison space
the size of Vermont to house all the felons created and/or
tolerated by Cheneybush, Ashcroft and Gonzo.

For this reason alone (along with the obvious ones), they will
commmit without hesitation any and all versions of electoral fraud
to put McCain in the White House and appoint Sleeping Beauty,
or someone equally aggressive, as Attorney General. Only a turnout
so massive that no electoral fraud can overcome it will turn the
tide. Pre-election polls have to be SO convincingly in our favor
that a result to the contrary will cause a true uprising and
resistance in the electorate and the Congress.

If the polls show Obama-McCain at 57%-43% and McCain pulls off
a "surprise upset" to win it, it will be met with the biggest
uprising since Washington, Jefferson and the 1776 gang said,
"that does it!" If not, then it should!

[ogsbee]

68. How about Spitzer for AG?!

nt

[DFW]

86. He would be perfect....

AND...he would be a perfect example of why the Republicans would hire
an outside army of mercenaries before they'd let an Attorney General
Spitzer from ever becoming reality.

[Hippo_Tron]

65. Were you awake during 2006 when Democrats won all of those Governorships and SoS offices?

Yea they were able to steal it in 2004 because Ken Blackwell was counting the votes in Ohio. That's not the case anymore.

[dysfunctional press]

66. they don't want to win it- the next 4 years will likely result in a failed presidency.

the chickens will be coming home to roost, and it isn't going to be pretty.

[tjwash]

69. Try and steal it? They are praying that we don't fuck it up and LOSE the damn thing.

For every reason you cited, they are praying a Dem wins so that they can start the "see...it's all their fault" meme rolling the second Obama's term begins.

[wildflowergardener]

70. optimistic

Boy that is optimistic. We might as not campaign then if we already know they are going to steal it.

Actually I disagree with this - what we need to do is make sure there are so many votes for Obama that they can't possibly steal it - we don't need a close election.

Meg

[barbtries]

71. no they won't

they will try. we will win. one thing i certainly agree with you about is they have not got a chance of winning it. it's up to the people to make sure they don't get away with stealing it.

[PeaceNikki]

76. No fucking way.

We won't let them do it again.

[noiretextatique]

77. since they stole the last two elections

it's likely they will try to steal this one too...very likely, imho. the democratic leadership needs to craft a contingency plan, and the people had better be ready to take to the streets.

[onethatcares]

78. no, they are going to allow the Democrats to win, then

everything that is looming on the horizon will be our fault. When the defication hits the spinning blades, they'll be an outcry as to why didn't we do something sooner, why look, Obama is a Muslim, these Democrats can't do anything, yada, yada, yada. Then the heat will crank up immeasurably. Haven't you heard them talk about the first 100 days of our win in 2006?

[TexasObserver]

79. the GOP will certainly TRY to steal this election

[Hydra]

80. Too bad so many people don't get it

5 million+ votes were flipped in 2004- and after 2006, nobody in Congress wanted to talk with us about eliminating election fraud.

You can bet that they will steal it- no way does John McCain have 50% of the support in America...yet the media keeps saying it will be a close race...

[Fly by night]

84. Over my dead body ...

... or theirs.

[HughMoran]

85. Not this shit again

Over and over and over and over and over we've heard this refrain here.

:eyes:

[TheWatcher]

88. And until we get a free and fair election in this country, I'm afraid you are just going have to put

up with it.

Better yet, this time we should be prepared to DO something about it.

[opihimoimoi]

89. GOP= Great Opportunities Prevented...thats all they do...install BAD IDEAS

The results over the long term speaks for themselves...losers.....big time....look who they choose as their BEST...

[earth mom]

95. It helps the GOP that the Dems have a very weak candidate. That's why they didn't want Hillary.

And they pushed Edwards out.

[VP505]

96. Weak candidate HOW?

So you think that McSame is a stronger candidate then Obama??? Besides that who is "THEY"???

[earth mom]

100. The people who really decide who is going to become the next president.

Educate yourself because this election has already been decided by the powers that be.

Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x208206#208274

p.s. There is one of Obama's key advisors on that list.

[VP505]

109. I completely disagree and,

REFUSE to let ANYONE tell me that I have to bend over and accept what a group of business people with money says I have to accept.BTW, you still haven't explained how Obama is a weak candidate.

[Swamp Rat]

99. How is Obama a weak candidate?

[earth mom]

102. self delete

[earth mom]

103. You've been around DU long enough to know what the powers that be are capable of.

This election has already been decided by them.

But for those who who still think they can make a difference with their vote-well, many of them will not vote for Obama.

Of course, you won't hear this on the echo chamber that DU has become and will continue to be.

But given Rezko, Wright, Pfleger, Ayres, Obama's corporatism, the misogyny of the Obama campaign, there are many who do not support or trust Obama.

Once people don't trust someone, that's it, it's over. You won't get their vote back.

That's why this campaign has played right into the hands of the powers that be.

Not that it makes a difference really because it's already a done deal.

[Swamp Rat]

104. I disagree with everything you said except the title of your reply.

Not much else to say. :hi:

[earth mom]

106. I'm really surprised to hear that. Please read this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x208206#208274

One of Obama's key advisors attended that meeting.

[Swamp Rat]

108. Ok, I read it.

I hope you are wrong, and the associations mentioned in the thread you linked mean nothing.

However, the non-issues regarding Wright and Pfleger are ridiculous at best, and I never saw any "misogyny of the Obama campaign."

If, as you said, "this campaign has played right into the hands of the powers that be," (I suppose you mean the shadowy Corporate Overlords) then we are totally fucked and might as well give up.

Today, I choose to feel hopeful for my health and my sanity, and for my family and friends who survived hurricane Katrina. This does not mean I will not highly scrutinize an Obama administration, or blindly follow them deeper into an abyss. It means I feel the need to trust and hope yet one more time because that is all I have.

[earth mom]

115. Thanks for reading the thread. You know something? I hope you prove me wrong.

Because after years of seeing so much destroyed and trashed in this country and so many people hurt and killed, I'd love for someone to step in who actually gives a damn.

I thought Gore would do it, but he probably thought it was already too late.

Edwards tried, but first they ignored him, then they kicked him to the curb.

After such an ugly "historic" primary where there WAS misogyny towards Hillary from the Obama camp, I'm totally fed up. Hillary was never someone I liked all that much, but I never ever hated her. But the hate around DU and elsewhere for Hillary was of EPIC proportions. They hate her solely because she's a tough woman. Maybe it's because I'm a woman that I can see very clearly what was done to her.

I don't like Obama for the reasons I stated in my post above-I don't trust him. I don't like that he's on the shady side with the company he keeps. Rzeko matters. Wright & Pfleger matter. The Bilderberg Group matters.

You say Wright & Pfleger don't matter but Wright & Pfleger matter to me because they are people Obama listened to for YEARS. That should matter to anyone who is supporting Obama. You can't just brush that kind of hate under the carpet just because it doesn't matter to YOU. It matters. Not only that but we've all seen what religious influence does to those in political power-it skews things and screws things up-like pro choice and gay marriage. Politics and Religion do NOT mix. Anyone mixing the two is someone I immediately do NOT trust. And that's without adding Rzeko or the Bilderberg Group to the mix.

But that being said...Hey, prove me wrong. IF Obama can somehow get elected and he tries to fix things and behaves ethically instead of being controlled by the powers that be, I will be the first one to say I was wrong.

Hell, I will be jumping for joy that someone is kicking some ass & taking names in Washington DC!!! :hi:

[Swamp Rat]

98. That would be suicide.

http://vwt.d2g.com:8081/vwt.jpg

[Fire Walk With Me]

116. If you only look at the amount of stonewalling and negation they've set up

regarding 9/11 investigations etc., that alone should tell you that they're up to zero good, and have vast investment into their own way, any way they can get it.

"Enron planned schemes in advance". Same with BushCo.

[mdmc]

117. thats why we need HRC on the top of the ticket

diebold might let her win. Then again, they just might let Obama win. Then again, it might be so one sided that there is no way that they can steal it. Or vice versa (if we go to war with Iran).

[Festivito]

118. It's already been stolen. Will we steal it back?

People don't realize they've been removed from the voting list. And, when they go, and if they don't walk out disgusted, their provisional ballot won't be counted because they really are off the roles. Maybe because some felon's name sounded close to theirs.

And for some reason that only happens in highly concentrated Dem areas.

There will be a shortage of machines in those same areas, and no shortage in CON areas.

Then there is the vote flipping. Going into the machines, who knows, maybe even wirelessly and reversing the counts.

THEY'VE DONE IT BEFORE, THEY'LL DO IT AGAIN.

[Rex]

120. Well, no one stopped them from stealing 2000 or 2004

and I would like to think it was just a Bush/Cheney thingy BUT if they OBVIOUSLY lockdown a vote counting building and get away with it in 2004...then why wouldn't they do it again. When you let bank robber into your vault by opening the door and turning away...well expect them to return for more loot.