Richard Clarke believes in forgiveness

[ensho]

Richard Clarke was on Wash. Journal this a.m. shilling his new book about how our govt. has failed us.

another man, another book, another pair of bloody hands.

he said that the survivor families of 9/11 have forgiven him and that he believes in forgiveness.

he said that while people work in the WH they are in a bubble and not able to see reality clearly. thus he needs us to forgive him.


some things are not forgiveable Richard.

[bdamomma]

1. nope ,sorry no forgiveness for these thugs.

they have ruined so many people lives and have ruined this country. Forgive? not with these thugs, they have shown us such disdain.

[magellan]

2. I don't buy the bubble theory

It's a self-imposed bubble. It means they are intentionally ignoring the very people they work for and who pay their salaries. It's an excuse, and a bad one.

No forgiveness.

[Corgigal]

3. survivor families of 9/11 have forgiven him

He was the only govt official that apologized to the families. I think that is why they do forgive him.

[elocs]

4. Posts #1 & 2 are pretty indicative of the DU attitude which does not believe

in forgiveness or redemption. Although I am sure those who refuse to offer forgiveness or believe in redemption would hope for it in their own lives. Richard Clarke is a bigger person than many here and he understands what forgiveness is all about.

[bdamomma]

5. I believe in forgiveness, but not for the crimes that these thugs

have perpetrated on so many people.

[elocs]

11. Then there really is no point for them to ever come clean, is there?

Does your harboring or nurturing unforgiveness make you a better person? I have seen people publicly forgive the person who killed their child. What an example for all of us that is.

[bdamomma]

12. I believe that they will never come "clean", they apparently

feel that in their own sick way that they are right for doing what they did to so many people. Just my opinion.

[truebrit71]

18. ..too bad you don't realize that Richard Clarke was never one of those "thugs"..

...

[bdamomma]

22. oh no, I wasn't directing my comment "thugs" that Clarke was one.

he was the only one who did apologize to those 9/11 families.

[magellan]

16. You win

You're holier than me.

[electropop]

6. Wasn't Clarke the one who tried to wake up Condi & the Bush regime to terror threat?

He didn't succeed, but even 9/11 didn't succeed in getting Bush to build an appropriate anti-terror program.

[Phred42]

7. That was my take on it.

[ensho]

9. he stayed in the bubble until '03

nt

[tom_paine]

10. You can't waking someone up who is purposefully trying to remain asleep.

MIHOP. LIHOP. We will never know. What we DO know with 100% certainty is that some or all of the Oficial Bushie Lie told about 9/11 is partially or wholly untrue.

[noise]

21. Has Clarke come clean on 9/11?

Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke is told in private by Dale Watson, the head of the FBI’s Counterterrorism Division, “We got the passenger manifests from the airlines. We recognize some names, Dick. They’re al-Qaeda.” Clarke replies, “How the f_ck did they get on board then?” He is told, “Hey, don’t shoot the messenger, friend. CIA forgot to tell us about them.” As they are talking about this, they see the first WTC tower collapse on television.

Link

On July 10, 2001 CIA officials gave an urgent briefing to Rice. The participants in that meeting were Tenet, Rice, Rich B. (Chief of Alec Station), Black (head of the CTC), Hadley (deputy NSA) and Clarke. One would think the possibility that al Qaeda operatives were currently in the US would have been mentioned at some point in this meeting.

[tom_paine]

8. No forgiveness to Nazis, Bushies or ANY variety of totalitarians!

They know what they are about, Richard. Lying, theft, fraud, and murder, to say the least.

No forgiveness for unredeemable monsters.

[ProgressiveFool]

13. Do you have any idea who Richard Clarke is?

He was the one professional in the WH who knew something about terrorism, tried to get Condie and the rest to listen to him, and was ignored. He has since written and spoken about much of the dysfunction so rife in the Bush WH. He has done little to be forgiven for, and yet was the only one who has ever apologized to the 911 families for not having been able to avert the tragedy. Though he has not, to my knowledge said so, I think his leaving the WH in March 2003 was likely a protest against the Iraq war, when he realized there was absolutely nothing he could do to stop it.

To include him in some sort of nebulous grab-all attack on the Bushies is ignorant and insulting.

[ensho]

14. I know who he is and was

he didn't do enough at the time

[truebrit71]

17. Other than using physical violence upon the persons he was dealing with..what else could he have....

...done in your opinion?

He did everything he could to get these people to pay attention, and then after they demoted/fired him he went out and shouted from the rooftops about how fucking inept the WH war criminals were...he sacrificed most of his former 'friendships' inside the beltway and had to put up with months and months of vicious smears from the right-wing presstitues...

But that wasn't enough?

Whatever.

:eyes:

[tom_paine]

23. I can't agree with that. As someone said, short of radical action, what could he have done?

That's how the Bushies work. It's how the Nazis worked. It's how ALL tyrants, past or present, gentler or brutal, work.

The tyrant does what they please, knowing that, at bottom, all laws are artifice but the Law of the Jungle. Leo Strauss, the Neocons' Philospher of evil, explained the Bushie Philosophy best when he wrote There is only one natural right - the right of the superior to rule the inferior.

Because of this philosphy, the tyrant knows he has anyone constrained by the Constitutional System, because it means nothing to him. He laughs at it, spits on it, shits on it. As Bushler said on one of those eminently rare occasions of truthtelling, "It's just a fucking piece of paper."

Thus the tyrant knows that no law, no letter, no judge's pronouncement can stop them. Occasionally, they might pretend to respect such things, but it is always because of deeper issues of power and control, not respect for the law. And it is always VOLUNTARY, i.e. there is no law but Imperial Fiat, and when it is obeyed, it is not because it has to be obeyed, but because the tyrants wants to appear to obey for some ulterior purpose.

So Clarke's position, pre-9/11, was that which we have all been against the Bushies. If we are not willing to think outside the box and take concrete action to effect he tyrant, i.e. arrest being the most obvious, then the tyrant wins by default.

Which explains the last seven years.

As I go back and read my previous post, it sounds as if I am joining the OP in condemning Clarke. I am not.

What we all know now, is that unless Clarke had basically done something that would have destroyed his career or endangered his family (the Bushies have no compunction at striking back at blameless family members to get to their enemies, for the moment it remains mostly non-violent retaliation) there is NOTHING he could have done or said to change the Bushies' minds.

Hell, as it is entirely possible if not proibable that the Bushies had a hand in 9/11 (LIHOP/HIHOP), then it's doubly true that nothing Clarke could have done.

It's hard to judge someone in a position like that, someon with a wife and family to care for. Was it possible for Clarke to do more? Absolutely. But it would have destroyed his career, destroyed his family, and maybe ended his own life (the Bushies would have waited a couple years and staged an accident/suicide to provide Plausible Deniability).

So while I might agree with you, I cannot judge the man for it. He was one of the first to come out and speak out, as well. His career was, as expected, destroyed.

[truebrit71]

15. Um you do realize he was essentially FIRED for speaking up to the WH right? Your post is compeltely

..off-base...

Richard Clarke is one of the GOOD GUYS you dolt....

:eyes:

[ensho]

19. first was the coup d'etat - why would a good guy work for them

in the first place.

[truebrit71]

20. Oh, I dunno, to try and fix the problem from the INSIDE maybe?

:eyes: