Is Homophobia As Morally Repugnant As Racism?

[ruggerson]

Poll question: Is Homophobia As Morally Repugnant As Racism?

Yes or no.

[terrya]

1. Yes.

Homophobia is as morally repugnant as racism.

[rocktivity]

2. They're both rooted in discrimination.

In this country, you're welcome to consider homosexuality a sin. But the "cure" is to not to engage in it, not to discriminate against it.

:headbang:
rocknation

[marmar]

3. Of course....

It's the same "you're somehow not as human as I am" energy at work.

[Fierce]

4. Yes. Why?

NT

[ruggerson]

16. Because a lot of churches and faiths teach homophobia every week

even the more moderate churches. And there is a sizable contingent at DU who absorb this and believe it.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. No, one is worse than the other. And in ways, the other is worse than one.

Ours is a visual society, and visual cues provide a lot of data to people. First impressions matter (any social scientist will confirm that, like it or not) and racial cues are among the easiest to define. In that sense, racism is worse than homophobia.

Then again, one's sexual preferences are hardly on the surface in day-to-day society. Unless one choses, by actions, t-shirts, jewelry, or other means of advertising, a straight person can mingle with gays and not be outed, and vice versa. The problem is that once some homophobic straights learn about the sexuality of a person who happens to be gay, all statements, opinions, insights, knowledge and experience are shit-canned and grouped together as "evil" simply because a person is gay. That, in my experience, has been worse than mere racism.

There is no simple answer, and context, and the situation at hand has a lot to do with rating which is worse. both are pretty piss poor, especially to the person suffering outrage and discrimination.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ruggerson]

7. So Matthew Shephard died of non predatory homophobia?

is that what you're saying?

[sweetheart]

11. whos that?

I'm saying that if you want to be afraid of gay people, its your
business, and trying to turn it in to a thought crime, is putting
appearances over human nature.

If someone is afraid of black people, its their business, but when
they turn that ignorance to damage is when we say its morally wrong.

The difference between being afraid and persecuting somebody is huge,
does persecuting fear make it go away?

[ruggerson]

28. But homophobia is about hatred and bigotry

not just fear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia

"Homophobia is the unreasoning fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.<1> It can also mean hatred, hostility, or disapproval of homosexual people, sexual behavior, or cultures, and is generally used to insinuate bigotry.<2> The term homophobic means "prejudiced against homosexual people,"<3> and a person who is homophobic is a homophobe."


And Matthew Shephard was a 21 year old gay kid who was murdered by two gay-hating thugs in Wyoming in a case which received extensive nationwide publicity.

[Marnieworld]

41. And "Boys Don't Cry"

Was a successful film that its lead actress won an Oscar. There enough mainstream stories out there that I'm surprised this isn't just an understood fact.

There is prevalent violence towards gay people. From Sweetheart's comments it seems that they think it is rare based on that it's harder to see who is gay unless their dress gives it away. Um, being out with your partner is a big ol' clue too and because of the violence many are afraid to live their lives completely in the open. Holding hands let alone a kiss can mean life or death.


In case anyone can't figure it out I agree with "Hate is hate."

[unpossibles]

44. oh, you mean like how people used to fear blacks?

A "phobia" is an irrational fear, so while you may indeed have the right to irrationally fear something you do not understand, that doesn't mean it is fair, safe, or the right thing to do. A more rational way of dealing with your fear of the unknown is to try and actually understand it from a human point of view. We are all humans, and in America we are all supposed to have the same basic rights, and accept each other as humans.

You can disagree with someones ideals, but that does not mean you should fear them.

The difference between being afraid and persecuting somebody is huge,
does persecuting fear make it go away?

I disagree. Fearing someone who is not trying to harm you leads to persecution. If you fear them, you do not accept them, and will accept behavior from others who may be willing to do whatever violent action they feel is necessary to remove that fear. You also give an unofficial consent to those people. Fearing black people, to use your example, is how the damage gets started.

Do not fear. Understand.

People are people. Even Republicans are people, although I often doubt their leaders are lately.

[Obamarama]

98. Listen up, sweetheart....

Fear translates into hate, which translates to overt racism, anti-semitism, homohpobia...and the list goes on. There IS no difference.

Half of my mom's family were killed in Hitler's ovens and gas chambers simply because they were Jewish. I've personally been called a kike, heeb, and lets not leave out Christ-killer.

In my lifetime, black people have been dragged to their deaths. I have heard people called nigger, and I have heard fellow white people call black people niggers. It disgusted me that somone would use those terms, and I called them on it. I know what it's like to be on the recieving end of that brand of hate.

While visiting my relatives in Israel last summer, I was literally caught in the cross fire of incoming rockets launched from Hezbollah in Israel. Every explosion I heard and saw reminded me that the people who were launching them hated me, my family, and my religion - enough to kill us. Everytime we had to scurry into the bomb shelters (I eventually lost count), I was reminded that these people hated my people - enough to kill us.

Earlier this month, a 72-year old gay man here in Michigan died becasue someone you would have us beleive "fears" gay people beat him multiple times over the head with a metal pipe simply because he was gay. I've been called a fag, and even targeted and attacked because I'm gay (I did much more damage to him than he did me, btw).

I think I'm pretty fucking qualifed to educate you that fear and hatred often breed on one another, with tragic consequenses. If you don't know that the difference between hating someone and persecuting them is NOT so huge, you obviously don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Please, spare us your patronizing logic.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

123. you killed christ? I never thought he existed in the first place.

but what you say makes a lot of sense.

Hatred. Ignorance. these are what make George Bush so strong. And he manages to create strife among us, while he wiles away the hours.

[KharmaTrain]

157. Someone Asked Me That Question The Other Day

A group of us were discussing the Cameron stuff and I metioned I was Jewish...one person in the group said straight out like a pavlovian reflex "aren't you the guys who killed Christ?" I used the response that from where I come from the New Testament is nothing but a best seller and there was no real proof Christ existed. The meltdown followed. He then told me that how dare me claim that Jews were the "chosen people" even though I never even mentioned that. Anti-semetism, like homophobia and bigotry simmer just below the surface virtually everywhere.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

161. oh geez. that must have been fun. not.

Proof positive, however, that early brainwashing of children has a long term negative effect. Which is why religion is so dangerous to society. It warps the brains of otherwise healthy kids and turns them into the faithful idiots.

[sweetheart]

144. Fear does not translate in to hate

It is a personal choice if you want your fear to translate in to hate. We are all
born ignorant of a million things, and through growing up, may learn to fear them, and to
overcome that fear. Your post makes a brazen presumption about human nature, that we
are incapable of free will, and that our fears are all realized in rocket attacks.

I respect your persecution, and i won't burden you with my own such stories, but i recognize
in those who persecute, the difference between the malice of hatred and the ignorance of fear.

Your patronizing logic is simply ignorance against free will.

[Name removed]

154. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sweetheart]

155. personal insults

Follow on the heels of a failed argument.

Better, since you updated to remove the 'fuck you, asshat' from the subject line, but no less childish.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

206. Personal insults...

are not as morally repugnant as apologizing for bigotry.

[Bluebear]

113. "Who's that?"

:eyes:

[slackmaster]

37. Matthew Shephard died of a hate CRIME

Murder, not fear, killed him.

[xchrom]

8. they used to castrate and tar and feather assumed gay men.

i mean why do you think we lived hidden lives?

i find your post as repugnant and homophobic as possible.

[sweetheart]

30. I find the persecution of thought crimes to be anti-intellectual

The thread title suggests that the word defining this:
"hatred or intolerance of another race or other races."

is the morally the same as the word meaning this:
"unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality."

Your ability either to discriminate or to read english is underwhelming you.
Our culture is systemically homophobic due to unfortunate media bias and cultural
institutions that 'spread' homophobia as a form of 'homosexual persecution' and
this is morally similar to racism, indeed. But fear is not the same as
taking action; we have free will after all, as human beings.

And you will never ever ever win the battle to change the social conscience of people
about homosexuality, ones who really are homophobic, by persecuting a feeling that
is natural, fear of new things. What's not natural, is letting that fear govern
one's actions. If you want to fix homophobia, you certainly are not gonna get
far by turning it in to a thought crime issue... you'll just drive it further
underground, and no wonder people have to live hidden lives, its self perpetuating.

Fear dispells in the light, not in the dark. A war on fear, is as stupid as a war on drugs,
or a war on terror, what nonsense culture have we become.

[xchrom]

91. you can think the world is flat -- that doesn't make it so -- or even right to think that --

you can be a holocaust denier with a phd -- that doesn't make you less stupid -- or dangerous -- than a Klansman in bumfuck, indiana.

you, coulter and horowitz are pissing moaning about the same things -- ''oohh -- the left is picking on me for thinking fucked up shit.''

well duh -- lol -- it's fucked up and WRONG.

when it comes to racist or homophibic thinking -- it jumps out of the brain and into action pretty fuckin fast -- even from our supposed allies{not that i would ever count you as one of those -- just another bigot i have to watch, as far as i'm concerned} -- like doma or don't ask don't tell.

no -- you're just flying ignorant freak flag here for some reason -- i have my own suspicions.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xchrom]

152. what is wrong with you?

the thought is the parent of the action -- the action is not separate from the thought.

the person who abuses animals or children knows it's wrong but they do it any way.

and most certainly not everyone who does is invested with a mental illness.

your defense of the indefensible labels you for the bigot you are.

pure and simple -- let freak fly dude -- it's amazing you can come here with that language
and spout it so proudly -- but that's the thing about hateful ignorance -- it'll make you immune to things like pain -- or shame -- or empathy.

as you are displaying -- the things that make you a part of the wider human community are falling away.


but go for it -- this is america man -- and you are keeping some fine company.

[sweetheart]

159. I reject all thought police

The thought police might be welcome in your house, they are not in mine.

I'll accept the dangerous position of interpreting my own fears, and suprisingly, despite
some irrational fears about all sorts of silly things (none to do with homosexuals), but more
to do with material success and abandonment, its not a cost to anyone but moi.

The thought is only parent to the action, *if* there is an action... and then the decision
to act is the true parent to the action. Criminalize violence; i'm all for hate crimes statutes,
but criminalizing fear is like criminalizing cannabis... a totally failed project from the outset.

[xchrom]

160. and you continue to display your defense of bigotry.

thought and action are tied one to the other -- if you are a ''passive'' bigot you can deny gay folk a place to live -- happens all the time -- or fire them -- refuse to treat them in a doctors office -- all of these things happen with some frequency.

your ''fear'' of the thought police is phony -- and it shows.


this isn't an abstract -- this is rooted in real time actions -- every day -- and it's flat out wrong.

again -- you are intellctually poisoned -- and dishonest -- that's all there is to it.

you can give it all the fancy libertarian or conservative pet names you want -- to defuse the hate -- but it's a squirming ugly little tapeworm wriggling around. but it's hate -- homophobia -- thinking it, acting on it -- it's all horrifying and it's all wrong.


and this little gay person will be very happy never to darken your door.

it's creepy that you're here.

[sweetheart]

162. poison, fear, terror.... what a post!!!

Be afraid, sweetheart is here spreading ideological sin, 'freedom of thought'.

i agree with you, that homophobia has exacerbated (with the help of corporate mainstream media!!!!!!),
a cultural pogrom against gay people. It does not make an indiviual person a criminal
for having absorbed that bullshit... and really, as your friend, and a friend to gay people,
i recommend that you consider your detractors as potential allies, instead of enemies.

Its a matter of intent, of choices of the soul, and i'll tell you, that a person who chooses
justice will always choose justice, and a person who chooses abuse and hatred will always choose the latter.

Homophobia will not go away in our lifetime, much like the fear of drugs and cannabis-stoned
axe-weilding reefer-madness killers, the propaganda has long implanted deep fears that will not be
dispelled by simple reasoning, as much as you are correct.

The deep fears need to be addressed by a mature gay public, who is so far intelligent beyond its
detractors that it outwits them by approaching and dispelling their fears without linking that to
hatred or violence. If you must teach us all how to think, then at least y'all could do it right.

I'm sorry to be the abused end of this discussion, but i'm serious that the way that the gay community
is approaching its detractors is perpetuating the homophobic problem.

[xchrom]

172. it's up to the individual to grow up and lose the

fears of childhood.

you're not a friend to gay folk.

you're as good as the worst homophobe out there -- and here i'll clue you in -- gay folk aren't drugs -- we're people and there's no comparing or using the war on drugs as an analogy that works BECAUSE we're people.
how's that for thought police?

straight people can kill us, make laws against us, not rent homes to us and it's our fault for how you fuckin think?

what a sad pathetic way of thinking.

the majority of people in this country were racist until confronted head on by the civil rights movement -- they didn't choose justice -- they were brought to justice kicking and screaming and made to look at it, wear it, smell it -- and they changed.

but no not creatures like you -- you're too smart for that.
you have a fear of the thought police -- like coulter and like horowitz.

next you'll be afraid of the liberal media.

[Name removed]

174. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xchrom]

185. and there's your bigotry for every one to see:

''Being gay is a behavior, like smoking cannabis,''

no -- it's not a behavior like smoking cannabis -- your ignorance and bigotry is exactly like those of the community that let emmet till's murderers off.

it's not a choice except in the minds of bigots -- who can then minimize the pain they inflict. sub-human.

people died for being assumed gay -- who were never having sex -- when the 76 year old man was recently bludgeoned to death he wasn't having sex -- he was getting off the bus.
when the nazis gassed gay folk -- they weren't having sex -- they were simply marked out -- and then killed later.

learn your history before you start spouting off about{your crazy irrational} fear of thought police or pretending to lecture someone about shit you know nothing about.

gay folk fired from their jobs{that's even if they are gay} -- it's because of perception made into action.

you have a childish and hateful approach to living and people.

[sweetheart]

202. Its a choice to behave

You are not an animal, you have a choice to behave or not behave a certain way,
that is what the forebrain part is for. If it is a behaviour that is beyond your
control, like skin color, that is different than a behaviour that is in your
control, like having sex. You can bullshit that its special, but its not the
same as racism, no, you have a choice, every day in how to behave.

Choosing to engage in a behaviour of having sex or smoking cannabis is free will,
they are the same, a choice between adults.

I'd hate to live in the narrow choiceless world you inhabit.

[Maven]

209. Disgusting.

You know NOTHING, not a THING, about sexual orientation/identity, that much is obvious.

What a bunch of insulting fucking bullshit.

[LeftishBrit]

214. Well, by the same token...

It is a CHOICE for black people to marry white people whom they love, or to apply for high-status jobs, or to argue with white people, or to try to vote, or to ride in the front of the bus.

Their skin colour cannot be changed, but their behaviour can... and this is precisely what many white racists have challenged: "I've nothing against 'them', so long as they stay in their place". In other words, non-white people are OK so long as they don't try to exercise the same RIGHTS as white people: a matter of behaviour after all.

I hope no one on DU - or many outside it these days - would consider such views to be acceptable. But homophobic views often amount to the same thing: gays are OK, so long as they don't act on their homosexuality. In other words, in the views of many homophobics, gays may have the right to be gay, but do not have the same right as non-gay people to have sex, or at the very least, do not have the same right to legal acknowledgement of their relationships. Just as in the view of racists, Rosa Parks had the right to be black, but not to sit at the front of the bus. Fundamentally the same sort of thing.

[cali]

190. A choice?

A behavior? What garbage. And bigoted garbage at that. The vast majority of gay people don't consider it a choice they made, simply the way they are.

[Bluebear]

173. 'the way that the gay community is approaching its detractors is perpetuating the homophobic problem

IOW, blame the victim at its finest. Shame on you.

[sweetheart]

179. fix the problem at its finest

If gay people did not flame out in this way, i'm saynig this wrong,
but got a bit more on message, it would be so incredbily effective, given
the knowledge of media and love endemic to the gay community,
i'm sure that gay people really do indeed have within their grasp
the tools to defeat homophobia.

One of them is to not overstate the case,
skin color is not a choice, it is a lifetime long thing, and
persecution based on skin color is heinously unfair. Racism
implies the persecution, as well as maybe fear. I might agree
that it would equate with a word like 'homophobism'.

Homophobia, is someone being afraid, and like an animal they
will bare their teeth and back in to a corner, or try to run away.
They probably have serious sexuality issues in their own lives
and probably really could, if you turned the whole thing around
and 'loved' them, respect them for having free will.
Its a matter of free will. Respect that, and you will win them
over. If you want to change things, then change the image in
film, and culture, as much as gay people are intermixed with
the very finest our culture is about.

I'm not defending homophobia, but i am defending common sense to
say that racism is not the same as somebody being afraid. The jesus
culture in certain parts of the country creates a real deep fear that
people won't talk about, that lashes out terribly indeed, but you
won't win those hearts and minds with another war.

This forum celibrates progressive political empowerment, not victemhood.

[cali]

189. Ooh, blame it on the victim. How original.

and the business about the corporate medea being responsible in part for homophobia is largely incorrect. They can be blamed for a lot of shit, but not this. In fact, corporate America in general has been ahead of the curve when it comes to gay rights.

[LeftishBrit]

177. But how do racism and homophobia differ here?

No one is seriously proposing criminalizing either so long as they are just thoughts or emotions - apart from the civil liberties issue, how can anyone prove in court what someone else is thinking or feeling?

But once they are translated into *actions*, it becomes different, and that is equally true of racism and homophobia.

[sweetheart]

213. They differ by their manifestation

If we erased homophobia completely by a magic spell tomorrow from gandalf,
pretty much like they have in britain, it would linger on socially between
people who laws can't change, but it is pretty much equal in several world
countries today for gay people; that can't be said for dark skin races in
any western country.

If we erased racism completely similarly, then we'd have to empty the prisons,
to offer and equitable adjustment of wealth, and make good for centuries of
systemic class injustice, both social and economic.

Gay is not an economic thing, gay people are economically socially mobile much
more than still existing american racism. The prisons are not overly full of gay people,
and the difference, if you want to say that they are the same, is
that the physical history of the latter one is in every state, every prison, every
school, structurally, and outside hate crimes, the same is not true for gay people.

Its hard going, just like with the persecution of women, but the sheer numbers of women
persecuted and dark skin persons killed, driven in to poverty, ghettoized and imprisoned
is in numbers terms, in social narrative magnitude, a much more deeper and heinous historical
ill that is not gone away.

For gay advocacy to invoke racism as the same, belittles how horrible racism is on
this planet and still is today.

[foreigncorrespondent]

169. Tell me...

...would your thoughts expressed right here on DU get you killed? Because for some of us, being gay holds the very possible threat that one day we will be killed because of who we happen to love.

[LeftishBrit]

176. There's a difference between thought and action

People have the right to be prejudiced against gays, or African-Americans, or Jews, or Germans, or women, or men, or children, or any group - but their rights *cease* when their prejudices get translated into harmful actions. To be afraid of or to dislike gays or of members of another race is one thing. To refuse to employ them; to discriminate against them legally; to imprison them (in the UK, people could be imprisoned for homosexual acts until the 1960s); to deny the right of marriage (as was done to interracial couples in the past and is now done to gays); to physically or emotionally abuse them, is another thing and is evil.

Homophobia may be outside the legal domain until it becomes translated into action; but exactly the same is true of racism. Fear or prejudice against members of other races is not in itself something that can or should be dealt with by law - but once it is translated into harmful actions, it can and should. The same for homophobia.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

183. my. I bet that worked really well, huh?

both are evils which exist in this world, but not the only ones, and perhaps not the most evil.

Shia v. Sunni
Budhist v. hindi
Christian v. muslim.

I'd suggest that the evils of homophobia and racism are eclipsed by these, and even worse, they are incorporated into the above three to the detriment of all. A synergetic result that causes even more death and destruction.

If we can get rid of racism and homophobia, great. At the same time, let's get rid of religions.

[terrya]

9. Well...

I certainly don't wish to trivialize racism. It's vile and disgusting and morally repugnant and shameful. The fact that we are still dealing with racism in the 21st century is inexcusible.

However...

Gay kids are thrown out of homes and are disowned by their parents.

Gay kids are sometimes sent into "ex-gay" groups to somehow purge their "illness".

Gay kids are sometimes institutionalized against their will.

Gay people are victims of hate crimes. Sometimes brutally. A 72 year old gay man was, a few weeks ago, a victim of a vile hate crime. That man paid for that bigotry with his life.

I think that bigotry like this is morally repugnant.

[TinyDemon]

21. ignorance isn't exclusive

"If homophobia becomes predatory"


IF?

[donheld]

192. Welcome to DU TinyDemon

:hi:

[fishwax]

49. if someone were afraid of black people, would you not consider that racism

:shrug:

[Madspirit]

88. You don't know much

I will take Coretta Scott King's thoughts over ANY of you naysayers and the fastest growing group of hate crimes are against gays. What happened to Matthew Sheppard wasn't predatory MY ASS:


"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," she said. - Reuters, March 31, 1998.
Speaking before nearly 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton Hotel,
Coretta Scott King, the wife of the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Tuesday called on the civil rights community to join in the struggle against homophobia and anti-gay bias. "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood," King stated. "This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group." - Chicago Defender, April 1, 1998, front page.

"We are all tied together in a single garment of destiny . . . I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be what you ought to be," she said, quoting her husband. "I've always felt that homophobic attitudes and policies were unjust and unworthy of a free society and must be opposed by all Americans who believe in democracy," King told 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton, days before the 30th anniversary of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination on April 4, 1968. She said the civil rights movement "thrives on unity and inclusion, not division and exclusion." Her husband's struggle parallels that of the gay rights movement, she said. - Chicago Sun Times, April 1, 1998, p.18.

"For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people," King said at the 25th Anniversary Luncheon for the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.... "Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement," she said. "Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions." - Chicago Tribune, April 1, 1998, sec.2, p.4.

We have a lot more work to do in our common struggle against bigotry and discrimination. I say “common struggle” because I believe very strongly that all forms of bigotry and discrimination are equally wrong and should be opposed by right-thinking Americans everywhere. Freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation is surely a fundamental human right in any great democracy, as much as freedom from racial, religious, gender, or ethnic discrimination. - Coretta Scott King, remarks, Opening Plenary Session, 13th annual Creating Change conference of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, Atlanta, Georgia, November 9, 2000.

"We have to launch a national campaign against homophobia in the black community," said Coretta Scott King, widow of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., the slain civil rights leader. - Reuters, June 8, 2001.

For too long, our nation has tolerated the insidious form of discrimination against this group of Americans, who have worked as hard as any other group, paid their taxes like everyone else, and yet have been denied equal protection under the law.... I believe that freedom and justice cannot be parceled out in pieces to suit political convenience. My husband, Martin Luther King, Jr. said, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” On another occasion he said, “I have worked too long and hard against segregated public accommodations to end up segregating my moral concern. Justice is indivisible.” Like Martin, I don’t believe you can stand for freedom for one group of people and deny it to others. So I see this bill as a step forward for freedom and human rights in our country and a logical extension of the Bill of Rights and the civil rights reforms of the 1950’s and ‘60’s. The great promise of American democracy is that no group of people will be forced to suffer discrimination and injustice. - Coretta Scott King, remarks, press conference on the introduction of ENDA, Washington, DC, June 23, 1994.

[Madspirit]

94. Is this enough?

Is this enough hate crimes perpetrated against gays, for you?

This only goes through the mid-90s:

HATE CRIME VICTIMS

"The opportunity to be threatened, humiliated and to live in fear of being beaten to death is the only 'special right' our culture bestows on homosexuals."
- Diane Carman, Denver Post

Matthew Shepard
On October 6, 1998, 21-year-old college student Matthew Shepard was tied to a fence in Laramie, Wyoming, pistol-whipped, then left for dead in the freezing night. He died six days later.
- Books about Matthew Shepard
- Matthew Shepard Online Resources
- U of Wyoming newspaper extensive archives
- Mr. Shepard at the sentencing
- Beautiful memorial Web site (click then scroll down to "enter")
- Shepard ads target Bush

Brandon Teena
Born Teena Brandon and raised as a girl, he was living as a man known as Brandon Teena in Falls City, Nebraska, when he was murdered at age 21. In December of 1993, two men who discovered his gender raped him. His attackers later shot and killed him after learning Brandon had reported the rape and was to help police in the investigation.
- Get the "Boys Don't Cry" Video.
- Brandon Teena story.
- Lambda Legal on Brandon's story.
- Interview with the creators of "Boys Don't Cry." from Salon

Danny Overstreet
On September 22, 2000, a man looking to "waste some faggots" entered a gay bar in Roanoke, Virginia and opened fire, killing Danny Overstreet, and injuring 6 others.
- Roanoke Times extensive coverage
- Photos of Overstreet funeral
- Photo essay: Overstreet murder.

JR Warren
On the fourth of July, 2000, JR Warren, 26, who was black and gay, was beaten to death by three men in West Virginia, then run over by a car to make it look like a hit and run.
- Charleston Gazette story.
- Warren's liver split in two.

PFC Barry Winchell
Pfc. Barry Winchell, 21, was beaten to death by fellow servicemembers while sleeping in his cot on July 5, 1999 at Fort Campbell, Ky. His Army colleagues thought (correctly) that he was gay, so they killed him.
- SLDN Barry Winchell page
- Email condolences to Winchell family
- SLDN's first notice of Winchell murder
- KC Star on Winchell
- NYT on Winchell
- Time magazine on Winchell
- Harassment in the military keeps increasing, from Salon.

Billy Jack Gaither
Billy Jack Gaither, 39, of Sylacauga, Alabama was bludgeoned to death by two men on Feb. 19, 1999, then set on fire with automobile tires because he was gay.
- PBS on Gaither
- NBC on Gaither
- Washington Post on Gaither
- More Wash Post on Gaither
- NYT on Gaither
- Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Gaither
- AP on Gaither

Bill Clayton
On May 8, 1995, Bill Clayton, 17, committed suicide after having been brutally assaulted for being bisexual.
- Portrait of a Son's Suicide
- Bill's mom's interview with HateWatch
- Gay Teens Face Harassment (CNN)

Tyra Hunter
On August 7, 1995, Tyra Hunter died after DC fire department emergency medical technicians called her epithets, backed away, and refused to render treatment on discovering that she was a transgendered woman.



ALABAMA
James Primus, 35- murdered, set on fire in his car, 21 June 1993

ARIZONA
Joseph Charles Holleran- beaten, assaulted, 24 October 1992, died May 1994
Duane Linsley- shot, 16 January 1994
Robert Haines- shot execution-style, 4 April 1994
Michael Despain, 24- burned, 6 June 1994
Thomas Frazee, 28- shot, 12 December 1994

ARKANSAS
Chris Miller, 23- stabbed and beaten, 30 July 1993
Ronnie Hugh Smith, 58- bludgeoned, found 25 February 1994

CALIFORNIA
John Garfield- shot, 30 May 1992
Cameron(Tina) Tanner- fall 1992
Mauricio Bassa- murdered, 22 May 1993
Keith Michael Ogden, 31- beaten, 7 July 1993
John Duncan O'Friel, 46- beaten, 8 July 1993
Father Ronald Maupin- multiple stab wounds, August 1993
James Graves- bludgeoned, 22 December 1993
Tony Ray- shot, 24 March 1994
Tommy Wenger, 24- multiple stab wounds, dismembered, 28 March 1994
Therman Brown, 50- gunshot wounds, 4 July 1994
Jon Simmons- gunshot to the head, 17 October 1994

COLORADO
James Holman, 36- multiple stab wounds, 13 February 1992
David Stewart- stabbed, 2 June 1992
Benjamin Zesch, 61- multiple stab wounds, 16 July 1992
*Robert Ferrell, 57- multiple stab wounds 15 September 1992
*Anthony carr, 33- stabbed, 26 December 1992
Randy Gonzales, 26- multiple stab wounds, 22 January 1993
Steven R. Heyman, 47- bludgeoned, 2 November 1993
*Bruce Hutchinson, 31- raped, bludgeoned 8 May 1994
*Poul Anderson, 54- gunshot to the head, found 23 May 1994

CONNECTICUT
James Maile, 25- bludgeoned, 10 December 1993

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA (Metro Area)

Sanford "Sam" Swift, 31- puncture wound to the head, 11 June 1992
Jack Cowles, 74- stabbed and bludgeoned, 21 December 1992
Kenneth Love, 42- head caved in, 21 December 1992
Ana Maria Rosales, 24- shot in the face, 7 January 1993
Alan Haskell, 30- strangled, 3 February 1993
Ricky Godbolt, 33- bound, gagged, and stabbed, 16 September 1993
Rogers Donahue, 25- bound, gagged, and stabbed, 16 September 1993
Eric Moore, 22- shot at point-blank range, body hung from a hook, 3 January 1993
Charles Logan, 47- multiple gunshot wounds, 8 January 1994
Paul McClure, 47- strangled, 5 February 1994
Frank W. White, 56- multiple gunshot wounds, 18 March 1994
*David A. Jarman, 38- strangled, 4 April 1994
Andrew Rowe, 53- multiple stab wounds, found 9 May 1994
Marvin Greenwell, 55- multiple stab wounds, found 10 May 1994
Stuart Jerome Moses, 33- multiple gunshot wounds, 17 May 1994
Shelton Thigpen, 74- strangled, found 23 June 1994

FLORIDA
James Flaherty, 52- stabbed, bludgeoned, and strangled, 14 February 1993
Michael Cooper,- multiple gunshot wounds, 11 March 1993
Craig Duncan, 20s- stabbed, March 1994
*Albert Alcie Morris, 37- bludgeoned and shot, 19 May 1994
*Walter Jammell Hinton, 43- murdered, 20 November 1994
*John Hardy Roberts, 59- murdered, 15 March 1994

GEORGIA
*Unidentified male transvestite, shot, December 1992
Elizabeth Kelle Davidson, 25- shot, 14 January 1993
Milton Bradley, 72- strangled and beaten, 5 May 1994
*Unidentified gay man- killed by serial killer Gary Ray Bowles, May 1994

ILLINOIS
Robert Harris- bludgeoned, 2 February 1993
Dennis Johnson- throat slit, 31 October 1993
Unidentified gay man, 70s- beaten, December 1993
Unidentified transvestite- multiple stab wounds, 18 December 1993
Unidentified male prostitute- multiple stab wounds, 31 December 1993
William Lemke- multiple stab wounds, 9 April 1994
Unidentified gay man- multiple stab wounds, 22 April 1994

INDIANA
Leta Dains- stabbed, 8 November 1992
Pamela Agee- stabbed, 8 November 1992
*Unidentified gay man, 22- murdered, 31 May 1993
*Unidentified gay man, 50- gunshot wound, June 1994

KANSAS
Unidentified gay man, 20s- bludgeoned, found 29 October 1994

KENTUCKY
Jack Gilman- shot in the head, 9 May 1993

LOUISIANA
Unidentified gay man, 51- beaten, 24 April 1993
Joe Balogg, 22- straight man stabbed by five men shouting antigay epithets, 12 November 1993

MARYLAND
Joey H. Jordan, 31- gunshot wound to the head, 6 July 1992
Marvin Johnson, 29- multiple stab wounds, 2 January 1994

MASSACHUSETTS
Thomas Carey, 39- gunshot wounds, 14 May 1993

MICHIGAN
Susan Pittman, 56- shot at point-blank range by neighbor, May 1992
Christine Puckett, 39- shot at point-blank range by neighbor, May 1992
Bruce Andrews, 28- multiple stab wounds, October 1992
Jeffrey Dansby- stabbed, March 1993
David Converse, 51- stabbed, 16 July 1994
Gary Rocus, 41- beaten and strangled, November 1994
MINNESOTA

Howard Liebhaber, 34- beaten and stabbed, 25 October 1992
Terry Oliver, 27- beaten and strangled, found 29 January 1993
Duane Swalve, 23- beaten and strangled, 29 April 1993
Craig Green, 34- beaten, 26 May 1993
Johnnie Williams, 48- beaten and strangled, 15 July 1994
Steven Fox, 25- bludgeoned, neck broken, 20 July 1994

MISSISSIPPI
Robert Walters, 34- gunshot wound to the head, 8 October 1994
Joseph Shoemake, 24- gunshot wound to the head, 8 October 1994
Stanley King, 24- shot, 15 December 1994

MISSOURI
William Childs, 27- beaten, stabbed, throat slit, 22 April 1993
Craig Johnson, 23- gunshot wound to the head, 27 June 1993

NEBRASKA
Brandon Teena, 21- execution-style shooting, 31 December 1993

NEVADA
William Metz- multiple stab wounds, 8 July 1994
Anton Walker, 54- bludgeoned, induced heart attack, August 1994

NEW JERSEY
James Septimphelter- strangeled, 5 March 1994
Harold Draper, 29- multiple stab wounds, 30 May 1992
*Thomas Mulcahey, 57- dismembered, 13 July 1992

NEW YORK
Julio Prado, 39- multiple stab wounds, 11 January 1992
Jesus Santiago, 24- beaten, 2 February 1992
Bernie Walsh, 28- bludgeoned and stabbed, 12 April 1992
Marsha P. Johnson (Malcom Michaels, Jr.), 46- drowned, 6 July 1992
Victor Bones, 20s- gunshot wound to the head, 27 July 1992
Vanathan Pleasant, III, 21- multiple gunshot wounds to the head, 19 July 1992
Brian Burke, 36- bludgeoned, found 25 October 1992
David Schwartz, 55- multiple stab wounds, found 9 November 1992
Salvatore Caggiano, 50s- strangled and burned, 26 December 1992
Stephan "Stephanie" Chapman, 20- gunshot wound to the head, December 1992
Lawrence Andrews, 44- strangled and stabbed, 11 March 1993
George "Joe" Ortiz, 40- multiple stab wounds, bludgeoned, 27 March 1993
Roosevelt "Terry" Lewis, 30s- strangled and burned, found 3 April 1993
Charles Lee- multiple stab wounds, 17 April 1993
*Anthony Marrero, 44- stabbed and dismembered, 16 May 1993
Milton Setzer, 60- throat slit, 29 June 1993
Eric Price, 25- throat slit, 29 June 1993
Dwight Greene, 44- bludgeoned, 8 July 1993
James Seward, 42- multiple stab wounds, 28 July 1993
*Michael Sakara, 56- dismembered, 31 July 1993
Jimmy Hawkins, 50- multiple stab wounds, found 15 August 1993
Mervin Wallace, mid 50s- strangled, found 30 September 1993
Jeannie Fenmore, 48- gunshot wound to the head, 23 December 1993
Pauline Campbell, 34- multiple stab wounds, 23 February 1994
Bernard Friedman, 56- multiple stab wounds, 20 April 1994
John Stella, 33- gunshot wounds, 1 May 1994
Javier Munsuri, 40- gunshot wound to the head, found 28 May 1994
Richard Whitesell, 32- multiple stab wounds, 13 June 1994
Martin Parian, 20s- gunshot wound to the head, 13 July 1994
Nelson Rawlins, 48- stabbed, found 30 July 1994
*Benjamin Rosario, 45- dismembered, 3 August 1994
Robert Kase, 44- 16 October 1994

NORTH CAROLINA
Carlos Stoner, 33- stabbed and beaten, 27 May 1992
Gerald Taylor, 66- multiple stab wounds, 20 July 1992
James Buchanan, 52- gunshot wound to the head, burned, 2 October 1994
Jerry Lee Dowdy, 50- bludgeoned, 2 October 1994



OHIO
Unidentified gay man- gunshot wounds, 13 October 1992
George S.- bludgeoned, mutilated, 10 January 1993
Eric Farrow (a.k.a. Ashley-Ann Summers)- gunshot wounds, found 20 November 1993

OKLAHOMA
Unidentified gay man, shot, March 1993

OREGON
Hattie Mae Cohens, 25- smoke inhalation due to firebombing, 26 September 1992
Brian Mock, 45- smoke inhalation due to firebombing, 26 September 1992

PENNSYLVANIA
Robert Hagan- throat slashed, found 9 August 1993
Paul Steekman, 47- beaten, 3 April 1994
Robert Harris- strangled, 5 October 1994

RHODE ISLAND
Roger Oliver, 23- beaten, near-decapitation 2 May 1994

SOUTH CAROLINA
Andre Jones, 33- bludgeoned, run over by car, 23 July 1994

TENNESSEE
Unidentified gay man- bludgeoned, 21 July 1994

TEXAS
Jose Rubio- multiple stab wounds, 1 July 1992
*Leopoldo "Paul" Quintanilla, 29- multiple stab wounds, throat and genitals cut, 23 June 1993
Nicholas West, 23- multiple gunshot wounds, 30 November 1993
*Larry Leggett- multiple stab wounds, 25 January 1994
*Joe Trevino, strangled and bludgeoned, 3 March 1994
Michael Benishek- bludgeoned and throat slit, January 1994
Tommy Musick, 48- multiple gunshot wounds, Feubruary 1994
John Anthony Burwell, 26- multiple gunshot wounds, 2 April 1994
Michael Burzinski, 29- gunshot wound to the head, 30 July 1994
Larry David Allen- multiple stab wounds, 18 August 1994

UTAH
Doug Koehler, 31- gunshot wound to the head, 15 August 1993

VIRGINIA
*Unidentified gay man, 27- strangled, 28 June 1993
*Unidentified gay man, 24- strangled, 3 September 1993
Gary Watts, 34- multiple gunshot wounds, 10 June 1994
*Henry Weatherford Jr., 50- shot, 13 June 1994
*Garland LeRoy Taylor, 24- strangled, 17 September 1994
Harold Coon- beaten and stabbed, 17 December 1994

WASHINGTON
Bradley Wantdler- multiple stab wounds, 20 June 1993

WYOMING
Roger Melner, 60s- bludgeoned, fall 1994


* Murder committed by an antigay serial killer.


_Principal_Source_: New York City Anti-Violence Project report, 1994

Additional Research: Elise Harris

[originalpckelly]

168. What about people who are scared of black people because of stereotypes?

Isn't that a form of racism?

[rucky]

193. All hate is rooted in fear.

When the threat isn't real, the fear part is paranoia and the hate part is discrimination. The slippery slope comes when we try to agree on which fears are real (meteorites? germs? Republicans?). When that fear translates to a broad-brush that dehumanizes a group of people, then the paranoia becomes discrimination. That's where I draw the line, at least. Trouble is, we all don't draw the same line and that's why there's still discrimination in this day and age. What about ex-cons? Child molestors? Clowns?

[marmar]

10. Mel Boozer, a gay African American man, summed it up pretty well:

"I know what it means to be called a nigger. I know what it means to be called a faggot. And I can sum up the difference in one word: none."

I hate these "who's more oppressed" arguments.

[Laughing Mirror]

56. Huey Newton said gays "might be the most oppressed people in the society"

Huey, founder of Black Panther Party, said that way back in 1970. So yeah, who is more oppressed is an old old debate.

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/newtonq.html

[Cha]

96. As long as he's

not a republicon.

[slackmaster]

12. Homophobia is fear

Discrimination is hate.

[terrya]

13. And GLBT people are discriminated against.

[slackmaster]

18. Yes, they are

But not everybody who is afraid of them (or of people of a particular race, nationality, etc.) practices discrimination.

I refuse to buy in to the blurring of the distinction between fear of people who exhibit a personal trait; and actively attacking or discriminating against them becasue of it. The meaning of the suffix -phobia has a clear, long-standing specific meaning. So do terms like racism, misogyny, and antisemitism. A gynophobe is not necessarily a misogynist. A semitophobe is not necessarily an antisemite.

[unpossibles]

50. irrational fear IS discrimination

you are being prejudiced (literally "pre-judging" since you are so fond of semantic acrobatics) based on your own preconceived notions instead of judging them as individual people. How is irrationally fearing a group of people not discriminatory by definition?

[slackmaster]

58. Not it isn't

Fear is an emotion, a thought process.

How is irrationally fearing a group of people not discriminatory by definition?

It's discriminatory to be sure, but that word also reflects a THOUGHT process which is not the same as discrimination which is a BEHAVIOR.

[unpossibles]

76. I would say that irrationally fearing a group of people

is a behavior, and a discriminatory one at that. How many "homophobes" are clinically afraid of homosexuality, the way someone may be of spiders or heights?

[Madspirit]

90. I'm posting this..

...after every single homophobic response on this thread.

I will take Coretta Scott King's thoughts over ANY of you naysayers:


"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," she said. - Reuters, March 31, 1998.
Speaking before nearly 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton Hotel,
Coretta Scott King, the wife of the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Tuesday called on the civil rights community to join in the struggle against homophobia and anti-gay bias. "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood," King stated. "This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group." - Chicago Defender, April 1, 1998, front page.

"We are all tied together in a single garment of destiny . . . I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be what you ought to be," she said, quoting her husband. "I've always felt that homophobic attitudes and policies were unjust and unworthy of a free society and must be opposed by all Americans who believe in democracy," King told 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton, days before the 30th anniversary of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination on April 4, 1968. She said the civil rights movement "thrives on unity and inclusion, not division and exclusion." Her husband's struggle parallels that of the gay rights movement, she said. - Chicago Sun Times, April 1, 1998, p.18.

"For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people," King said at the 25th Anniversary Luncheon for the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.... "Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement," she said. "Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions." - Chicago Tribune, April 1, 1998, sec.2, p.4.

We have a lot more work to do in our common struggle against bigotry and discrimination. I say “common struggle” because I believe very strongly that all forms of bigotry and discrimination are equally wrong and should be opposed by right-thinking Americans everywhere. Freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation is surely a fundamental human right in any great democracy, as much as freedom from racial, religious, gender, or ethnic discrimination. - Coretta Scott King, remarks, Opening Plenary Session, 13th annual Creating Change conference of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, Atlanta, Georgia, November 9, 2000.

"We have to launch a national campaign against homophobia in the black community," said Coretta Scott King, widow of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., the slain civil rights leader. - Reuters, June 8, 2001.

For too long, our nation has tolerated the insidious form of discrimination against this group of Americans, who have worked as hard as any other group, paid their taxes like everyone else, and yet have been denied equal protection under the law.... I believe that freedom and justice cannot be parceled out in pieces to suit political convenience. My husband, Martin Luther King, Jr. said, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” On another occasion he said, “I have worked too long and hard against segregated public accommodations to end up segregating my moral concern. Justice is indivisible.” Like Martin, I don’t believe you can stand for freedom for one group of people and deny it to others. So I see this bill as a step forward for freedom and human rights in our country and a logical extension of the Bill of Rights and the civil rights reforms of the 1950’s and ‘60’s. The great promise of American democracy is that no group of people will be forced to suffer discrimination and injustice. - Coretta Scott King, remarks, press conference on the introduction of ENDA, Washington, DC, June 23, 1994.

[Jamastiene]

150. Fine, then come up with a word that describes

what happens to gay people like what happened to Matthew Shepherd. If that was not homophobia, then name it. What was it? Hate is hate. And getting attacked is getting attacked. What's the name for the violence toward gay people? It's never been given a name. So, instead of jumping into an argument about semantics, let's go ahead and name it. It does need a name. It's long overdue. Up until now, everything that happens to gay people has been lumped under the name, "homophobia." Not everyone who has been attacked for being gay was attacked though, because of any personal traits. You'd never know I was a lesbian, yet I was brutally raped years ago when people found out I was a lesbian. They only found out because someone told them. They never had a clue before they were told and then decided to attack me. So, what name should attacks against gay people be given? I'd be interested in knowing from a grammatically correct point of view.

[ruggerson]

19. homophobia is far more than just fear

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia

"Homophobia is the unreasoning fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.<1> It can also mean hatred, hostility, or disapproval of homosexual people, sexual behavior, or cultures, and is generally used to insinuate bigotry.<2> The term homophobic means "prejudiced against homosexual people,"<3> and a person who is homophobic is a homophobe."

[slackmaster]

22. Appeal to Wikipedia fallacy

Sorry, I refuse to recognize such an irregular usage of the suffix -phobia.

I don't care if Merriam-Webster says the same thing BTW.

[Maven]

25. What?

Homophobia has come to mean hatred and discrimination against GLBT people. You could just as easily argue that nothing in the word "racism" actually denotes "hatred"--only preferential treatment. That argument would be equally ridiculous.

Stop being a literalist just to prove whatever specious "point" you were trying to make.

[slackmaster]

32. I understand that, but I refuse to use it that way

If someone discriminates I will call him or her a bigot.

If someone says "So-and-so is a homophobe", I will understand what he or she means.

Stop being a literalist just to prove whatever specious "point" you were trying to make.

After working several years for a degree in Psychology, where the term "phobia" always means irrational fear, I'm not going to start using it in a novel way when there are other perfectly good words like discrimination and bigotry to describe the same thing.

[Maven]

36. Then continue to be a creature of your own social reality.

I think it's obvious you knew that the OP meant "bigotry" by "homophobia."

[slackmaster]

38. Yes, I know the OP meant that

The OP solicited responses. I've given an honest and candid one.

[Maven]

45. No, you've given a pointlessly hair-splitting one

by your own admission.

[slackmaster]

47. Deal with it

Common usage be damned. I refuse to engage in what I consider a misapplication of a technical term.

[ruggerson]

63. So what do you call black people?

After all, they are not technically "black."

[slackmaster]

66. I usually refer to them with more specific terms

African-American, Australian aboriginal, southern Indian, etc.

[noamnety]

86. How very PC of you - and almost believable

You know DU is searchable, right?

Too politically correct to use the proper medical term for homophobia, but proud of wearing black face to fundraising parties.

That combo is a first for me.

[slackmaster]

199. You've got it completely bass-ackwards

Too politically correct to use the proper medical term for homophobia...

No, I use the term homophobia to refer to an irrational fear of homosexuals.

I do not use the term homophobia to refer to acts of discrimination or oppression against homosexuals.

[unpossibles]

204. so you're admitting that your fear is irrational?

I'm not attacking you per se, just trying to understand what your point is.

Do you have a clinical fear of gay people? You do realize that advances have been made in therapy to come to terms with these phobias, right?

[noamnety]

55. It's the MEDICAL definition, the one the NIH links to.

Having trouble understanding how you could have a degree in psychology, without understanding the most basic medical/psychologocial terminology.

irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

[slackmaster]

60. Why not just call discrimination discrimination?

:shrug:

[fishwax]

84. because it's useful to have a term that refers specifically to

discrimination against gay people.

[noamnety]

89. Why not just call chicken pox "illness"?

Isn't it enough that they can look at a rash and tell you you're sick? Why the need to get so specific about it?

:shrug:

[Midlodemocrat]

135. Awesome response.

:applause:

[Behind the Aegis]

139. ""phobia" always means irrational fear"

No, it doesn't. It can also mean an aversion or dislike. In SOCIOLOGICAL terms, that is what 'phobia' is used to mean.

[slackmaster]

201. The word most similar to hompohobia is, I believe, xenophobia

Look at these sample sentences:

The Polish-American society sued the city for discrimination, alleging that it wrongfully denied a building permit based on the group's ethnicity. The President of the society said "The city council suffers from xenophobia."

The GLBT friendship coalition sued the city for discrimination, alleging that it wrongfully denied a building permit based on sexual orientation. The President of the coalition said "The city council suffers from homophobia."

In both cases the suit is being brought for a specific behavior (discrimination). You can't sue someone for being afraid of you, only for unfair treatment. The underlying cause - Irrational fear of Poles or of GLBT people, isn't actionable because it's a state of mind.

Eliminating homophobia is the key to ending discrimination against GLBT people. The phobia itself is not a crime, rather a personal problem.

[Maven]

210. OMG. It's the same fucking thing.

Xenophobia is generally not used to convey "irrational fear" in a clinical sense. It is fear OR hatred of foreigners.

Jesus Christ, put down the DSM IV and acknowledge the world around you.

[REP]

180. If You Really Want To Split Hairs...

"Homophobia" is a neologism that from a purely etymological standpoint makes almost no sense. Assuming the "homo" in "homophobia" is Greek and not Latin, the word literally means "fear of the same."

I agree both that it is an unsatisfactory neologism to express a hatred of gays and that that its common usage.

[Lex]

27. Words change in meaning over time. Deal with it.

nt

[ruggerson]

29. So you don't believe in reality, in other words.

Just the world according to slackmaster.

[slackmaster]

33. You're discriminating against me because I am a literalist

I'm not buying into what I believe is a trendy misuse of the English language.

Deal with it.

[ruggerson]

39. Rightwingers use this logic too

they refuse to call gay people "gay" and refer to them as "sodomites" or "homosexuals," because the word "gay" is something that gays and lesbians assigned THEMSELVES, so it would give power to the gay community, in their sick minds, to use it.

Do you also refuse to call blacks "blacks"? That was "trendy" thirty years ago when it came into common usage. Do you only call them "negroes?"

"Homophobia," in current usage, means exactly what I posted to you. Fear, hatred and disapproval of gays and lesbians.

That is the current meaning of the word. And it hasn't changed for over twenty years.

Deal with it.

[slackmaster]

40. I don't care if everyone else insists on misapplying the suffix -phobia

I understand what people mean when they say it. I refuse to use it that way because I think it's incorrect.

I call bigots bigots. There is nothing so special about bigotry against homosexuals that merits coopting a well established suffix that has a very specific, well-established meaning.

[fishwax]

that poor, oppressed -phobia suffix

:rofl:

[slackmaster]

52. Laugh all you want

I will continue to refuse using the word homophobic to mean anything other than an irrational fear of homosexuals.

You can't riducule or force me to change.

[Lex]

57. Meaningless stance.

nt

[ret5hd]

59. exactly what slack are you the supposed master of?

i think some here would benefit from a liberal slathering of the aforementioned "slack"?.

[TommyO]

124. Then you are part of the problem

words, like homophobia, are defined by their usage, not their strict language constructs. Hate and homophobia exist and result in pain, suffering, and death for gay people.

[Buzz Clik]

145. I've got to agree. It seems that homopobia has been redefined at DU.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

146. No, homophobia has the same definition here that it does in society.

:eyes:

[Buzz Clik]

153. Ok. Being anal-retentive, I looked it up in the dictionary.

The second definition in American-Heritage concerns behavior based on an irrational fear or contempt for lesbians or gay men.

I stand corrected.

[gollygee]

195. A lot of discrimination against African Americans is based on fear too

irrational fear that causes them to do hateful things. It's the exact same scenario.

[Kajsa]

14. Yes, both are rooted in hate.

Hatred is often fed by fear of something/someone.

The end results are the same.
The fear=hatred= actions starting with hate words/expressions that
can escalate into hate crimes.

My son described it accurately when Mathew Shepperd was murdered;

" he was killed for being gay".

[DeeDeeNY]

15. They are both irrational hatreds based on ignorance

A person can no more choose whether they're gay than they were able to choose what race they are.
Hating someone for something they have no control over is beyond stupid, not to mention dangerous.

[Inkyfuzzbottom]

17. They are equally repugnant

Racists and homophobes hate others for being what they are. You don't get to choose your skin color or sexual orientation.

[ldf]

20. there is enough hate to go around

one group does not have to be pitted against another, which is what's happening.

they are trying to divide two core constituent groups of the democratic party.

i will have none of it.

i stand with my fellow recipients of the "largess" of the republican party, and i hope they will stand with me.

the first place the definition of commonality should come from is the pulpit.

that would go far in joining us a brothers and sisters.

the question is, will the believers in the sayings of jesus step up to the plate?

i can only hope.

[xchrom]

23. 9 votes say no.

:eyes:

[slackmaster]

24. My No vote is purely technical, a lexical nit

Discrimination aganist homosexuals is as morally repugnant as discrimination against people of a particular race or color.

[Maven]

31. Well, your linguistic treatment is wrong.

Please look into semiotics and the social construction of meaning generally.

[slackmaster]

34. That's a slippery slope you're heading down, Harvey

If we blur the distinction between irrational fear and discriminatory behavior, we'll end up in a world where being afraid of someone becomes a crime.

[Maven]

42. Why don't you invent your own word for anti-gay bigotry

if that makes you happy, since you're so obtuse that you refuse to acknowledge anything but the most literal meaning of "homophobia." By the way, "phobia" can also mean aversion, not just fear.

I find it telling that you don't choose to play the same literalist word game with "racism," when I've pointed out upthread that someone so inclined could just as easily do so--and it would be just as intellectually dishonest.

Do you also deny there is institutionalized discrimination against GLBT people in our society? What would you call that?

[slackmaster]

46. That's an excellent idea

Is there a famous anti-homosexual bigot we could name it after?

I find it telling that you don't choose to play the same literalist word game with "racism," when I've pointed out upthread that someone so inclined could just as easily do so--and it would be just as intellectually dishonest.

That's baloney, Harvey.

Like other -isms, racism means favoring one race over another or over all others. It's the other side of discrimination. That's perfectly within one generally understood, established meaning of -ism.

Do you also deny there is institutionalized discrimination against GLBT people in our society?

I've posted about the subject enough times that my position should be perfectly clear. But since you don't know me, I'll answer you. Of course there is institutionalized discrimination against LGBT people.

What would you call that?

Discrimination.

[Maven]

So what if people favor one race over another?

What if they're just irrationally afraid of working with someone of a different race?

We wouldn't want to punish thought crimes, right?

[ruggerson]

53. Bingo

n/t

[slackmaster]

54. There are words for that too

e.g. Negrophobia, which is an irrational fear and not the same thing as discrimination against dark-skinned people.

The latter is actionable in civil court, the former is not.

If "homophobia" means discrimination, what would you call irrational fear of homosexuals?

[Maven]

43. .

dupe

[Jamastiene]

151. I'd suggest Licex for nits.

Some friends of mine told me it works.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

26. I can't believe that some DUers think one kind of hatred is worse than another.

Why is it worse to discriminate against blacks than gays? Honestly, I find it appalling that so-called progressives can think that way. Both are equally repugnant.

Hate is hate and it doesn't matter who it's practiced against. There is no place for it in society.

[slackmaster]

35. Fear and hatred are not the same thing

Discrimination is yet a different thing.

[unpossibles]

65. would you not agree that a lot of irrational hatred exists because of irrational fear?

Most people do not just hate something, they hate something because they fear it and/or have been taught to fear/hate it. I don't understand how you cannot see an easy jump from one to the other. Is it ok to fear black people or Mexicans as a group?

Could not violence occur as a way to "proactively" get rid of said fear? The easiest way to remove fear is to remove the object of that fear.

It has happened many times in history. The Germans were taught to fear the Jews, that the Jews were less than human, would take their money, and would perform acts of terrorism. Do you not think that fear, that dehumanization, led to the idea that it was okay for Jews to be rounded up and taken away? Early American settlers were taught to fear the native Americans, and so accepted the wholesale slaughter of them, despite the fact that said fear was mostly irrational. I could list more if you want.

[foreigncorrespondent]

170. Well...

...holding an irrational fear of something, will undoubtedly lead to that person holding a very real hatred for the same thing. And that hatred has lead to the killing of gay people because bigots believe they have the right to purge the world of anything different to themselves.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

128. you miss the point and the difference, and the context.

racism is general, for the most part, and it damages many to a degree.
homophobia is direct, close, and personal, more often than not. It seriously damages one individual, far more than a group of people.

[Midlodemocrat]

134. That's not true. What do you think drives the whole DOMA movement?

Homophobia. And, it damages a lot of people.

As a white, middle class, middle aged straight married woman, I can't even begin to imagine the depths of that kind of prejudice and discrimination, either based on racism or homophobia.

But, I'll tell you one thing, I'm not about to tell those who DIRECTLY experience it that they are wrong. And, neither should anybody else.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

138. ok. that's a very good point.

I cannot argue with that.

One thing we can agree on is our nation is truly and well fucked up.

[Fleshdancer]

48. So after reading the replies to this thread....

I never really thought of the simplicity of the word "homophobic" before and how it really does whitewash the actual hatred and discrimination involved. For those of us who are committed to gay rights and equality for all, the word "homophobic" really does equate to the way we use the word "racism". It encompasses the brutal history, the current legal struggles and the disgusting acts of hatred toward homosexuals that exist around the world today. For us, it is more than a phobia per say but I can see how taking the word at face value does indeed minimize its horrific implications.

I don't think there's one person on DU who believes that the hatred and discrimination of one group of people over another group of people is acceptable. I just think we're getting tripped up over the language involved. Is there a better word to describe what we're trying to say?

[Maven]

51. There isn't, and there doesn't need to be.

This nitpicking over a suffix is pointless and insulting.

[Fleshdancer]

61. um, ok

Exactly who am I insulting and how? As for being pointless, we're all entitled to our opinions but do you really think language doesn't play a part in any civil rights battle?

All I'm saying is that there are people who don't think homophobia is that big of a deal because, to them, they see or hear the word and think that it only means fear. Am I wrong for thinking that the word, when used by activists, means more than just fear?

[Maven]

67. Sorry, I wasn't referring to you.

And no, you're not wrong in thinking that the word, when used by the vast majority of people who use it, means more than just fear.

[TommyO]

125. Especially since it relies on a linguistic ideal

rather than real-world usage which is what truly defines a word.

[Hosnon]

211. Although language doesn't remain pure, I think it is helpful to try, whenever possible, to

remain true to the general rules of a language. It's not necessary for meaning but it cuts down on confusion.

[ruggerson]

62. Homophobia is a word that has meant the same thing

for over twenty years. The only people who usually routinely still pretend that it is solely about "fear" are rightwingers who hate homosexuals and use the grammatical distinction as a faux talking point to avoid addressing discrimination, bigotry and hatred.

Blacks are not really technically "black." But we've all used the term for forty years now. Is there anyone who does not understand what "black" means?

[slackmaster]

64. What word would you use to describe just an irrational fear of homosexuals?

If homophobia has been coopted to mean discriminatory behavior, what would you call a neurotic fear of homosexuals?

[ruggerson]

69. Homophobia

there are many words that have more than one application. And this word's applications are all interrelated.

[Maven]

72. .

No point.

:banghead:

[unpossibles]

73. I would bet you that most "homophobes"

which literally means "fear of humans," if you want to get specific, are not clinically afraid of humans, homosexuals, or even uniformity (as in homogenous), they have been taught that gay people are an abomination, and if someone is an abomination, it's not to hard to understand hurting them.

[REP]

181. No, It Literally Means "Fear of the Same"

The Greek "homo" in the compound "homosexual" means "same" and is the same "homo" in "homophone" and "homeopathy." The "homo" in "homo sapiens" is Latin and means "man." (Technically, though, I believe our species is Homo Sapiens Sapiens.)

[unpossibles]

182. you may not have noticed I included "fear of uniformity"

in my post, meaning I was trying to include that "same" definition as well. I said "fear of humans" first because I thought it was funny and am well aware of what the prefix means.

My points were simply that to try to say homophobia is not discriminatory because it only literally means "fear of" is oversimplification, and that all bigotry is stupid because we are all human.

Looking at the poll numbers, I think some people have trouble with the idea that you can be for equal rights (including for gay people), completely straight and not interested, and NOT be a homophobe.

Either that or we have more small-minded bigots here than I'd like to think. People have tried to weasel out of their bigotry with clever semantics for hundreds of years though, so why should today be any different.

[REP]

186. Ah - "Uniformity" is a Bit Different from the Greek "Homo" (Same, Like)

As I posted upthread, I agree that "homophobia" is a terrible neologism because it is so imprecise (it really doesn't mean anything, strictly speaking) but I also accept that it is a neologism coined to mean 'fear and bigotry against gays."

Me, I'm for better neologisms. I'm also for equal rights for everybody.

[TommyO]

127. The usage of words changes all the time.

If it weren't for that simple fact, I might be a "faggot" instead of gay. Oh wait, a faggot is a bundle of sticks, or is it slang for a cigarette? Word usage is transitory, the hate behind homophobia (and I will use that word) is forever.

[Fleshdancer]

75. but there are people here who use it in that way too

Looking at the results of the poll in this thread, I hate to assume that there are that many rightwingers who hate homosexuals here on DU. I could be wrong about that, but it would still be surprising.

Regardless, I feel a flame fest coming on by my post even though I wrote it out of nothing more than linguistic curiosity with no intention of insulting anyone. I just think language is important but since I have a good grasp of what homophobia means, I really don't care one way or another.

[ruggerson]

78. I think the results of this poll reflect

the fact that there is a sizable minority on DU, unfortunately, who trivialize and/or minimize the pervasive personal and institutional bigotry that gays and lesbians experience every day of their lives.

And no flames intended or perceived, I think this is a discussion that needs to be aired and re-aired here until that 15% gets it.

[slackmaster]

200. You are so wrong it's almost unbelievable

:eyes:

[Gormy Cuss]

212. Not true. There are many people who are not rightwingers who do not understand the term.

The problem is that the neologism does not follow the expected morphology and while it has been in use for twenty years the notion that it covers the whole spectrum from simple fear to hatred is not ingrained yet in large part because of the recasting of the meaning of the suffix. There is still a learning curve on the definition of the term. For those of us who live in very liberal or progressive areas the term is understood, but out there in the rest of the country there are a vast number of people who believe the term is limited to irrational fear. Perhaps in another twenty years it will be like "black" or "white" for race, but it is not there now.

Now having noted that,if someone has been educated to the meaning of the term and refuses to accept it that's a whole 'nother issue, more closely related to calling someone by a derogatory term rather than a neutral or positive term.

[skiddlybop]

68. HELLO, please correct your headline.

It should be:

Is REPUBLICAN Homophobia as Morally Repugnant as REPUBLICAN Racism?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

71. Umm...there are homophobes and racists who aren't Republican.

I've seen them right here on DU.

[Madspirit]

80. I see that you're rather new.

There's an abundance of homophobes here or this question wouldn't even BE.
Lee

[Nicole]

99. He's been here longer than you have.

Maybe he's just not around often enough to see it. :shrug:

[Madspirit]

102. Wow...you're right

We've both been here since 2005 but he beats me by a few months. I can't imagine being here that long and not posting more. I wasn't putting him down, btw. I was just pointing out that there are homophobes aplenty on the left.
Lee

[Nicole]

108. I wasn't implying you were putting him down.

I was just pointing out that length of time here doesn't always mean you see everything. I rarely read any of the GLBT threads until last year.

I've been here since 2002 but never posted on any of the GLBT threads until 2006. It wasn't that I didn't support GLBT rights until then, I just thought it was better if I left posting to those with the facts to back them up.

That changed in 2006, when some here blamed the GLBT community for Dems losing elections. I stepped up & posted my support. I figured even a badly worded post of support was better than the eloquently worded shit that some spewed forth.

[Madspirit]

111. I appreciate your support....a lot n/t

[LeftishBrit]

92. Actually, that's a bit too limiting

Racism and homophobia are sadly not linked to a single party or to a single country.

[donheld]

187. HELLO, please do NOT correct your headline.

It's fine the way it is. Homophobia and racism are morally repugnant no matter which party in involved.

[pitohui]

70. it ain't a contest, hate is hate EOM

.

[gollygee]

74. There's enough hate in the world for everyone

sadly

[Lurking Dem]

77. Why is this even a question?

[unpossibles]

82. sadly, it should not be

but looking at the poll results, maybe it needs to be.

The best way to conquer fear is to try to understand what you fear. If the object of your fear is not trying to harm or threaten you, then you should be able to get over that fear, although that can take a lot of work.

I guess some people would rather discriminate than try to remove their fear, sadly.

[Madspirit]

79. Coretta Scott King says:

I will take Coretta Scott King's thoughts over ANY of you naysayers:


"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," she said. - Reuters, March 31, 1998.
Speaking before nearly 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton Hotel,
Coretta Scott King, the wife of the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Tuesday called on the civil rights community to join in the struggle against homophobia and anti-gay bias. "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood," King stated. "This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group." - Chicago Defender, April 1, 1998, front page.

"We are all tied together in a single garment of destiny . . . I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be what you ought to be," she said, quoting her husband. "I've always felt that homophobic attitudes and policies were unjust and unworthy of a free society and must be opposed by all Americans who believe in democracy," King told 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton, days before the 30th anniversary of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination on April 4, 1968. She said the civil rights movement "thrives on unity and inclusion, not division and exclusion." Her husband's struggle parallels that of the gay rights movement, she said. - Chicago Sun Times, April 1, 1998, p.18.

"For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people," King said at the 25th Anniversary Luncheon for the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.... "Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement," she said. "Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions." - Chicago Tribune, April 1, 1998, sec.2, p.4.

We have a lot more work to do in our common struggle against bigotry and discrimination. I say “common struggle” because I believe very strongly that all forms of bigotry and discrimination are equally wrong and should be opposed by right-thinking Americans everywhere. Freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation is surely a fundamental human right in any great democracy, as much as freedom from racial, religious, gender, or ethnic discrimination. - Coretta Scott King, remarks, Opening Plenary Session, 13th annual Creating Change conference of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, Atlanta, Georgia, November 9, 2000.

"We have to launch a national campaign against homophobia in the black community," said Coretta Scott King, widow of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., the slain civil rights leader. - Reuters, June 8, 2001.

For too long, our nation has tolerated the insidious form of discrimination against this group of Americans, who have worked as hard as any other group, paid their taxes like everyone else, and yet have been denied equal protection under the law.... I believe that freedom and justice cannot be parceled out in pieces to suit political convenience. My husband, Martin Luther King, Jr. said, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” On another occasion he said, “I have worked too long and hard against segregated public accommodations to end up segregating my moral concern. Justice is indivisible.” Like Martin, I don’t believe you can stand for freedom for one group of people and deny it to others. So I see this bill as a step forward for freedom and human rights in our country and a logical extension of the Bill of Rights and the civil rights reforms of the 1950’s and ‘60’s. The great promise of American democracy is that no group of people will be forced to suffer discrimination and injustice. - Coretta Scott King, remarks, press conference on the introduction of ENDA, Washington, DC, June 23, 1994.

[philosophie_en_rose]

81. It's a false and divisive comparison.

Is being stabbed in the neck better than being burned alive?

There are difference between racism and homophobia, but the differences are not quantifiable. And comparing the two does nothing but diminish the one that is deemed less awful for some reason.

[Solo_in_MD]

100. Concur

both are bad, but they are not identical and have differing aspects.

To make them equivalent is a simple answer for simple minded people.

[Bluebear]

114. 'To make them equivalent is a simple answer for simple minded people.'

That's helpful.

[Solo_in_MD]

119. Some times that is what it takes to get people to reconsider their cliche position

Racism is quite different that homophobia, to equate them is inane

[Bluebear]

120. So why don't you explain how different they are instead of just saying how inane it is?

I'm too simpleminded to see it.

Also. The poll just asked if they are both equally morally repugnant, not "the same".

[ruggerson]

126. If it's "quite different"

then please expound. Thank you in advance.

[TommyO]

129. Hate is hate, whether it's exercised against

gay people or against someone of a different race. Period.

[NMMNG]

165. Tell that to all of the gay people

Who have been discriminated against, abused, harassed, attacked and even killed for how they were born.

[mondo joe]

167. In what what are they not equally morally repugnant? Thank you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

205. Have you got a problem with either?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

83. Yes.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

85. Yes. n/t

[Madspirit]

87. I just wish

I knew who was voting "no" without reading their idiot replies so I could put them on permanent Ignore because I could NEVER trust anyone who said "no".
Lee

[cali]

191. I can't believe that 14% of those answering

voted no.

[Lurking Dem]

196. They're just expressing their concern

over the Gay Jewish Vaccinated Smoking Cabal. :sarcasm:

[xchrom]

93. now it's up 17 votes -- what the fuck?!?!

[Madspirit]

101. Honey...it's up to 20!

I just wish I knew who all the "no" voters are so I can put them on "Ignore".
Lee

[xchrom]

105. well just between you and me --

i'm only feigning surprise.

homophobia is a fairly well known quantity here.

still -- it's nice to act like i'm surprised.

[HardRocker05]

95. for the pedantic: is homophobia as bad as race-o-phobia? it's pretty sad that 15%

15% of DUers don't seem to think that homophobia is a serious moral error. god only knows what the percentage among the general population is. mind you, i don't really see what the need is to compare various bigotries and pit them against each other, but it is sad that quite a few people here on DU seem to be looking for excuses to trivialize homophobia.

[Cha]

97. Yes..and any

other kind of repugnant there is.

[qwlauren35]

103. Nope.

I could go into a long, drawn out pseudo analysis, but I won't bother. I just don't see them as equally morally repugnant, by any stretch of the imagination.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

106. I would love to know why you don't consider them the same.

Why is it worse to discriminate against one group born one way over another group born one way?

[Obamarama]

107. Oh, please DO enlighten us.

You say "no" but then refuse to explain why. That's right...scurry away back into your dark, little hole.

[Madspirit]

110. I find you...

...morally repugnant.
Lee

[ruggerson]

112. Please defend your no vote

Many of us would be interested in hearing your rationale.

[TommyO]

131. So which is it?

It's OK to discriminate against a person of a different race?
Or is it OK to discriminate against somebody because of their sexual orientation?

Why is one more, or less, repugnant than the other? Oh, that's right, you won't go into your analysis.

[Obamarama]

104. It's a pretty shitty day when you want to say "Quick, DU this poll", and it's acutally on DU!

I can't believe there are so many votes for "no."

Who let the trolls in?
Who, who who, who who?
Who let the trolls in?

[Madspirit]

109. ANYONE who says "no"

Is a flagrant homophobe regardless of the pretty paper they try to wrap it in or they would be swayed by the words of one of the greatest civil rights leaders of our time, Mrs. Martin Luther King Jr.. Here I go again:

Coretta Scott King:

"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," she said. - Reuters, March 31, 1998.
Speaking before nearly 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton Hotel,
Coretta Scott King, the wife of the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Tuesday called on the civil rights community to join in the struggle against homophobia and anti-gay bias. "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood," King stated. "This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group." - Chicago Defender, April 1, 1998, front page.

"We are all tied together in a single garment of destiny . . . I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be what you ought to be," she said, quoting her husband. "I've always felt that homophobic attitudes and policies were unjust and unworthy of a free society and must be opposed by all Americans who believe in democracy," King told 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton, days before the 30th anniversary of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination on April 4, 1968. She said the civil rights movement "thrives on unity and inclusion, not division and exclusion." Her husband's struggle parallels that of the gay rights movement, she said. - Chicago Sun Times, April 1, 1998, p.18.

"For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people," King said at the 25th Anniversary Luncheon for the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.... "Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement," she said. "Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions." - Chicago Tribune, April 1, 1998, sec.2, p.4.

We have a lot more work to do in our common struggle against bigotry and discrimination. I say “common struggle” because I believe very strongly that all forms of bigotry and discrimination are equally wrong and should be opposed by right-thinking Americans everywhere. Freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation is surely a fundamental human right in any great democracy, as much as freedom from racial, religious, gender, or ethnic discrimination. - Coretta Scott King, remarks, Opening Plenary Session, 13th annual Creating Change conference of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, Atlanta, Georgia, November 9, 2000.

"We have to launch a national campaign against homophobia in the black community," said Coretta Scott King, widow of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., the slain civil rights leader. - Reuters, June 8, 2001.

For too long, our nation has tolerated the insidious form of discrimination against this group of Americans, who have worked as hard as any other group, paid their taxes like everyone else, and yet have been denied equal protection under the law.... I believe that freedom and justice cannot be parceled out in pieces to suit political convenience. My husband, Martin Luther King, Jr. said, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” On another occasion he said, “I have worked too long and hard against segregated public accommodations to end up segregating my moral concern. Justice is indivisible.” Like Martin, I don’t believe you can stand for freedom for one group of people and deny it to others. So I see this bill as a step forward for freedom and human rights in our country and a logical extension of the Bill of Rights and the civil rights reforms of the 1950’s and ‘60’s. The great promise of American democracy is that no group of people will be forced to suffer discrimination and injustice. - Coretta Scott King, remarks, press conference on the introduction of ENDA, Washington, DC, June 23, 1994.

[Bluebear]

115. read upthread.

You must be "simple-minded".

[Lurking Dem]

118. I am a simple minded Jew.

And I realize when somebody engages in antisemitic behavior, it is out of fear and loathing of Jews. When someone engages in racist acts, it is out of fear and loathing against people of color. When people act out against gays, it is out fear and loathing against homosexuals.

It ain't rocket science and I really do not understand the sophistry in this thread.

[Midlodemocrat]

137. The sophistry exists because there are still those who think the

GLBT community needs to STFU and sit at the back of the bus until 'they' the wise and oh, so wonderful members of the Democratic party decide that the GLBT community gets what it is looking for.

And, arguing over a fucking suffix? It makes my head hurt with the absurdity.

What you posted is spot on and exactly what the GLBT community is saying.

Hate is hate is hate is hate.

[terrya]

143. Thank you.

These words by Coretta Scott King SHOULD put this question in perspective for the idiots who voted no in ruggerson's poll.

[quinnox]

116. No

One refers to sexuality the other refers to the color of the skin, they are in a different category.

[Bluebear]

117. Quelle surprise. nt

[LostinVA]

198. Quelle surprise, aussi

[Madspirit]

132. Coretta Scott King thinks you are wrong

...and when it comes to bigotry, I will listen to HER, not you.
Lee

[ruggerson]

133. The question is if they are equally morally repugnant

not if the bigotry is directed at the same characteristics.

Answer the question in the poll, not the red herring you made up.

[Midlodemocrat]

141. Beep. Beep. Beep.

I got news for you, pal. They're exactly the same. Hate is hate.

[terrya]

148. You're full of shit.

If you've read Coretta Scott King's (just in case you didn't know, she was Dr. Martin Luther King's widow. I suspect you might have heard of him) words on homophobia (posted right in this thread, btw) and you STILL think it's nothing but "sexuality", then you're an idiot.

[mondo joe]

163. What about that makes them not both morally repuganant?

[NMMNG]

164. How is that?

:shrug:

[LeftishBrit]

178. How does this make one better or worse than the other?

And not all racism is based on skin colour; e.g. the Nazis were racist against the Jews, thought they were not of a different skin colour.

[TommyO]

122. For the 27 (so far) who voted no

SHAME ON YOU! Your gay brothers and sisters have the same right to equal treatment under the law as their fellow citizens, regardless of race, religion, or any other way that people try to divide themselves.

[Midlodemocrat]

130. It sure is. People have DIED because of the ignorance associated

with racism and homophobia.

[BeHereNow]

136. Absolutely. No if, and or but...

Completely unacceptable in civilized society.
BHN

[etherealtruth]

140. Hatred is hatred

Bigotry is bigotry.

It is never OK

[Behind the Aegis]

142. My head is spinning!

I can't believe there are people trying to "redefine" what homophobia is! This is as stupid as those that try to redefine (usually ad nasuem) the meaning of anti-Semitism! I can't believe there are people that think one form of hate is "worse" than another. :puke:

[Jamastiene]

147. Yes, it is.

Regardless of how many people of many different races feel about homosexuality and regardless of how those in the nazi research field (er, ahem, oops, I mean psychologists and psychiatrists) feel about nature versus nurture, homosexuality is innate. It's no choice just like skin color is no choice. Trust me, I'm lily white even though my great great grandmother was a black woman. I hear so many people use horrible slurs against black people all the time and here I am a person who is part black. It's not right. They don't even know it, just like many times where I live, people trash gay people right in front of me not knowing. These people hate me and they don't even know I'm the person they hate so much. They are telling me about it as if I'm not one of the people they hate because they do not know. I recognize it for what it is and keep my distance. I never would call any of these people friends. Ever. Hate is hate and hating someone for their skin color is just as bad as hating someone for who they love.

I personally would like to see the day that all people, regardless of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, nationality, origins, (or anything else some inbred cousinfuckers can come up with to hate people for) are actually treated fairly and equally with rights that are equal and fair for all. It was supposed to be that way, but those types have held back civilization and ruined life and even ended life for so many innocent people. And that's just it, innocent people get killed in the process when people decide to hate someone for not being a carbon copy of their own fuckedupness. That's sad. That's not civilization. When the human species can get this all sorted out and all people are given a fair chance in life, contact me and call it civilization. Otherwise, I laugh when anyone calls anything to do with the human species, "humane" or "civilized."

[Name removed]

149. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[talkinghead]

156. I wouldn't necessarily equate the two.

Racism is the belief that one's race is superior to another, whereas homophobia is an unreasonable fear of homosexuals. I would think that racism is generally rooted in hatred and ignorance, with hatred typically dominating, while homophobia is rooted more in ignorance. I believe cases exist where on is homophobic but does not actually hate homosexuals.

[xchrom]

158. 29 no votes -coulter, horowitz, weyrich and the rest of the criminally self serving

conservative intellectual community would be very proud.

there re-education of the intellectual process in america is showing progress even at du.

[NMMNG]

166. Yes, it is

Hating a person for how they were born is the same no matter why you hate them.

[Forkboy]

171. 29 morans so far

[Skittles]

175. that just f***ing shocks me

racism and homophobia are absoutely equally sickening, unreasonable and hideously repugnant - I'm betting a lot of those naysayers either don't care for gay marriage or don't mind as long as they are called "civil unions" :puke:

[Azathoth]

184. It depends on what you decide 'homophobia' means

If you think it means hatred of gays, or viewing gays as inherently inferior to other human beings, then yes, it's just as morally repugnant.

If you think it extends to opposing gay marriage, disapproving of homosexual sex and/or refusing to view homosexual relationships the same as heterosexual relationships...then I don't think so.

One is outright bigotry and hatred, the other is ignorance and fear mixed with thousands of years of religious/cultural traditions (and possibly a touch of biology as well).

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

197. It's the hatred of gays and viewing of gays as inferior that leads to not extending them rights.

Both are homophobia.

[donheld]

188. 31 homophobes -- who new?

:shrug::banghead:

[bicentennial_baby]

194. I did!

Merely confirmation of what I already knew :)

[unpossibles]

203. I cannot believe how many voted "no" on this!

Seriously. Ok, for all the homophobes out there, you do realize you can be straight and still find homophobia unacceptable right? I mean, if white people can support equal rights for non-whites, this should be a no-brainer.

Bigotry in any form is wrong, and refusing to accept bigotry should not and does not challenge your own sexuality. Get it?

And for those who are picking apart the meaning of homophobia... it is to laugh. Grow the fuck up. Redefining terms so you don't look like an ignorant bigot is so last century - but then again, that's pretty much where the right wing wants us to be.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

207. don't feed them.

The ones saying homophobia isn't as bad as racism are known for racism too.

[Balbus]

208. Absolutely.

[Moderator]

215. Locking

This has turned into a flame fest.