Another gasoline question.....

[OwnedByFerrets]

What is the price point that the price of gasoline cannot breach? Is it $6? $8? $10?
If you say $6 or less, please explain why it cannot go higher.

America has an addiction which cannot be broken in the near future. If gas is $6-10 a gallon, we must still purchase it. Will the "powers that be" decide that those price points will dig too deeply into the corporate profits because no one can afford the other things that are affected by the price of a gallon?
Your thoughts?

[Bob Dobbs]

1. It will rise to the point that The People rise in armed insurrection.

Not unlike food riots happening even now in other parts of the world.

It will be timed to reach that point before the election so the fascist decider can declare martial law, turn loose the military on the citizens and become the little dictator he has fantasized about being for so long.

[cabbage08]

5. Huh?

:shrug:

[mach2]

9. Maybe, if a lot of people manage to walk to the riot.

:eyes:

[On the Road]

2. I Don't Understand Why There Has to be a Ceiling

unless it's the financial limit of users to pay. No one usually talks of a ceiling for other commodities.

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. Exactly right.

The median income is about 40,000.

The average family has two cars.

The average car gets driven 12,000 miles/year.

For the sake of argument, let's say that the discretionary income is 10,000/year.

Let's say that the average car gets 25 mpg.

12,000 * 2 / 25 = 960 gallons/year. $10,000 / 960 = $10.41

If gas reaches $10/gallon, half of families will spend all of their discretionary income on fuel.

I suspect it becomes a civilization-changing crisis before that point.

The price of fuel is currently doubling every 36 months. My advice is to not buy that 5 year warranty.

[Delphinus]

6. Nobody looks at it like you just did:

a civilization-changing crisis.

That statement right there has

IMPACT.

[tama]

17. Word.

Sounds better than collapse of technological civilization and massive die-off of human population overshoot.

[Arctic Dave]

10. I like the way you put it. Another part of the

calculus should be minimum wage. At what point do people no longer make money at a low paying, or second job, to justify going to work? Add to that the exponential effect of consumer goods going up at the same time due to shipping cost. I would say $6-7.00 dollars a gallon will be the tipping point. If the average persons salary doesn't rise with the increase in fuel cost the purchasing power will crash quicker then we think.

[OwnedByFerrets]

13. I agree with the part about

civilization changing crisis.....I have to disagree about the part about discretionary income. Fuel prices wont be the only thing that goes up if gasoline is $10.41 a gallon. Is food discretionary? I'm not sure, I'm asking.
At $10 a gallon, our way of life in Amerika is over. Maybe that is over the edge thinking, but I believe it to be so.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. is 10k discretionary? I dunno.

When people have to decide to buy food or to buy the transportation fuel - to go to the job - to get money - to buy food, I suspect that fuel becomes the unnecessary expense.

[madinmaryland]

3. At some point, the price is going to reach the point that demand will

drop significantly enough to stabilize the price. What that is, I don't know, but it will happen.

[NightWatcher]

7. we used to say, 3, 4, 5, now it's up to 10$ before we snap? Gas Co's will stop just short of 10 then

[predfan]

8. even if the average family does everything within it's power to conserve

you still get hit with the hiden costs of transportation contiained within the goods we purchase.

[OwnedByFerrets]

14. Very very true...nt

[trof]

19. They ain't so 'hidden' at the grocery store.

My Alabama Winn Dixie spuds were grown in California.
Same for the onions.
Alabama farmers forgot how to grow potatoes and onions?
It's crazy.

[Individualist]

20. Speaking of conserving,

As I was stopped at a traffic light, I heard the pickup truck beside me start his engine when it turned green. Don't know if his engine may have died or if he was attempting to conserve gas by turning it off at traffic lights. Idling at traffic lights (especially long ones) does use gas, but would it be of any help to turn off the engine?

[OwnedByFerrets]

21. There is a point at which it becomes

advantageous to turn it off. I dont remember the exact number, but Im sure its easily found.

[Breeze54]

11. I don't understand how having HEAT is referred to as an addiction.

:shrug:

[tkmorris]

12. Who is talking about heat?

And, even if anyone was, there are other methods of providing heat you know.

[Breeze54]

22. Where do you think heating oil and electric heat comes from?

:shrug:

[tkmorris]

25. I know where heating oil comes from

That's not the point. The point is there are other methods to heat BESIDES oil, and electricity can be produced in ways that don't use oil either.

Your silly attempt to hijack the issue by making it about heat is rather transparent. What's your agenda anyway? Is it personal for you or is it just another "devil's advocate" post, of the sort I've seen you do before?

[Breeze54]

26. WTF? It is NOT cheaper to convert to "other"

forms of heat for everyone at all.

This isn't "your" thread. :silly:

The thread is about OIL!!!!

BTW? Get some help.

[OwnedByFerrets]

15. Sorry about that.......

that is a fault of mine. Living in the deep south, we inexcusably forget about heating oil. My bad.

[Breeze54]

23. Naw, but it seems like a lot of people

think all the high gasoline prices are the only things effected by high oil prices.

[robertpaulsen]

31. Don't stop there! How about being addicted to FOOD?

"Big deal. If gas prices get high, I’ll just drive less. Why should I give a damn?"





Because petrochemicals are key components to much more than just the gas in your car. As of the year 2002, approximately 10 calories of fossil fuels are required to produce every 1 calorie of food eaten in the US. Source The size of this ratio stems from the fact that every step of modern food production is fossil fuel and petrochemical powered:



Pesticides and agro-chemicals are made from oil;



Commercial fertilizers are made from ammonia, which is made from natural gas, which is also peaking in the near future. Source



Most farming implements such as tractors and trailers are constructed and powered using oil-derived fuels.



Food storage systems such as refrigerators are manufactured in oil-powered plants, distributed using oil-powered transportation networks and usually run on electricity, which most often comes from natural gas or coal. Like oil and natural gas, coal too is peaking in the near future. Source



In the US, the average piece of food is transported almost 1,500 miles before it gets to your plate. Source In Canada, the average piece of food is transported 5,000 miles from where it is produced to where it is consumed. Source



A recent article published by CNN documented just how much fossil fuel energy is used to produce our food. Emphasis added:



In the U.S., up to 20 percent of the country's fossil fuel consumption goes

into the food chain which points out that fossil fuel use by the food system

in the developed world "often rivals that of automobiles". To feed an

average family of four in the developed world uses up the equivalent

of 930 gallons of gasoline a year - just shy of the 1,070 gallons that

same family would use up each year to power their cars. Source



According to the Organic Trade Association, the production of one pair of regular cotton jeans takes three-quarters of a pound of fertilizers and pesticides. Source



In short, people gobble fossil fuels like two-legged SUVs.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Index.html

[tama]

18. Price poing

One cataclysmic price point is when what you earn is less than driving to work costs. Housing crisis is just beginning, suburbia will get abandoned.

[Winterblues]

24. I suspect it can reach one hundred dollars a gallon

Maybe not in my lifetime but then again maybe so. It is not infinite and is in great demand. By the rules of supply and demand one can ask what ever the market will bear...There will be a time when only the very wealthy will be able to afford to drive their own car powered by gasoline. I suspect we will see major breakthroughs in alternative fuels and energy.

[KillCapitalism]

28. $100? Don't say such things, they'll want to put you in a straight jacket here!

I made a thread about $50/gal. gas and DU wanted to commit me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3006082

[slackmaster]

30. If it does, then maybe I can finally talk the managers into letting me telecommute

:D

[murray hill farm]

27. It could happen quickly if...

we had another Katrina this year or next...which is likely. Houston is along the same gulf path where Katrina and the worst of hurricains occur...and a direct or even closer hit to Houston would take out refineries and then the cost of gas would not be of concern again. All of the gas stations would quickly be out of business and what you would see instead of gas price signs would be "NO GAS" signs...which would quickly be followed by "NO FOOD" signs at the grocery stores.

[slackmaster]

29. As soon as it costs enough people more to drive to work than they earin on the job

That will be the end of it.

How many is enough?

I'm not sure, but it can't be more than a small percentage of the workforce.