Your Ideas, Please , DU....What Can Be Done (Right Now) To Save Our Economy?

[AzDar]

Any thoughts?

[MNDemNY]

1. Annex China?

[AzDar]

2. Ouch.

:hi:

[MNDemNY]

3. Just a thought.

:shrug:

[NewJeffCT]

157. They might be annexing us

if we elect McCain...

[peace13]

4. Conserve energy at home and work.

Be less wasteful and buy American!

[scarletwoman]

5. Eat the rich.

[AzDar]

34. We'll start with Bill Gates, although I suspect he'll be a bit 'stringy'.

:9

[peace frog]

44. I understand babies make a tasty and economical meal

Just a modest proposal.

[FreakinDJ]

6. Elect a Democrat and stop spending like a "Drunken Sailor"

[Peace Patriot]

69. I don't know about that. I oppose the "Blue Dog" Democrats, who want to cut

everything in the budget except war spending. We should do just the opposite--drastically cut war spending to finance INCREASED, New Deal-type spending, first of all to alleviate suffering--for the jobless, the homeless, the poor, those without medical care. This alone stimulates an economy--bootstrapping the poor, and putting money in peoples' hands. Then--in addition to cutting the military budget down to a true defensive posture (no more wars of choice! I say, by 90%)--BOOST the government coffers with a proper progressive tax, and spend MORE--just as FDR did, to overcome Great Depression I. You CAN'T overcome it without massive government spending. That was Hoover's mistake. He was just too much of a Republican to see it.

We're spending money on the WRONG THINGS, in addition to the problems created by our destroyed regulatory and tax systems. I'm not saying spend MORE money than the Bush Junta is now spending, overall. I'm saying spend money on the RIGHT THINGS--and spend lots of it--and you will soon be in the black, with a booming economy, and if you spend it smartly, you will also create an environmentally sustainable economy.

We also need to end de-regulation and tax cuts for multinational corporations and the super-rich, end credit card usury, end wild speculation, and support sound and accountable financial policy. These kinds of good government regulatory and tax policies will not only produce more government revenues for social programs and economic stimulus, it will calm things down. It will END the expectation that there are zillions to be made by sharp practice, callousness and crime.

I always laugh when I hear Bushites (or "Blue Dogs") described as "conservative." They are NOT conservatives. They are radical fascists, supported by war profiteers, robber barons, brigands, pirates, on a mind-boggling, global scale. And we need strong, progressive, FDR-type leaders to undo the tremendous damage they have done, and put our country back on a sane, CONSERVATIVE course that serves the COMMON GOOD--conserves the environment, conserves our earnings, conserves Social Security and other pension plans, conserves our common values, conserves our infrastructure, conserves our education system. REAL conservatism. What we are seeing is the insanity of radicals, in the service of GLOBAL predators.

And you don't defeat their massive looting of our country by cutting social spending at the very moment that it is most needed.

They were forced to do that in South America, and it nearly destroyed the countries that it was inflicted upon. Instead of spending on social programs, the World Bank/IMF ripped off all the social program funds, with usurious loans, and left the poor to rot--just as the Bushites did in New Orleans. They have all now rejected "neo-liberalism." And so should we. There is no better place to spend government revenues than on the poor, because they WILL re-create the economy from the bottom up. And that is exactly what is happening in South America. They are way ahead of us in economic and political thinking--and in dealing with the global corporate criminal cabal.

[ThomWV]

7. This will sound absurd, but honestly; limit the importation of plastic to half the current level

Plastic in any form, just limit its importation in total tons to some limited amount, roughly half of what it currently is. No particular product, not from any particular country, no particular type, just plastic.

[AzDar]

14. Really?

[ThomWV]

22. Seriously.

Think about the new demand for domestic manufacturing that would be created overnight. Think about all the oil that is used to make all that plastic - just reducing its demand would have a major and beneficial effect on the economy, and it too would be almost immediate.

[AzDar]

29. An excellent point. Is this a common school of thought , or your own idea?

[ThomWV]

58. Just one rambling thought from a babbling idiot.

[AzDar]

79. On the contrary, I think that's a fine idea that really ought to be passed along to someone

who is interested in, and capable of, implementing it (i.e., a Dem, in January, 2009).

(Any new Administration is going to need all the help they can get after 8 years of Chimpolini).

:applause:

[FogerRox]

68. I see you dusted off the PHd in economics.......

[Lorien]

124. Plus, it might eliminate all that excess packaging and those gawdawful

disposable bags (that some here still believe our species is incapable of surviving without). Wouldn't it be worth it just to never have to pry our way into another one of those %$@*#$ clamshells?

[Bluzmann57]

8. Revive the manufacturing base

and heavily penalize those who would move away from the USA to pay less wages and insurance. I mean make sure they can't do business in the USA without financial pain. CEO's have to learn that if there are no products made here in the USA, we can't buy any products, so tell them to sell their products in the countries in which they are made. I'd make laws right now about my position. Of course with the assholes in office, it would get either vetoed or never even pass the House and/or Senate. Make sure made in USA products cost much much less than foreign made products.

[ThomWV]

12. The great lakes area plastics manufacturing industry used to be huge

[Bluzmann57]

17. And with my plan, it could be again

I have actually suggested a plan like mine to my rep., who is generally a good rep, but he seemed a bit lukewarm to the idea.

[defendandprotect]

104. Plastics . . . are poisoning the planet --- let's reverse plastic . . .

[Spider Jerusalem]

169. Problem: everything now made from plastic was once made of...

wood, cloth, metal, glass and leather. Can our resource base support a return to these materials? Not at current rates of production. Overconsumption of nonessentials is what's poisoning the planet, as much as anything is. There's going to have to be a dramatic change in the way most people live, one way or another.

[ThomWV]

173. Yes.

[annabanana]

18. And close those "Post Office Box Banks" in the Caymans.

Make the government BUY AMERICAN. .

(p.s. Saipan is NOT America until it obeys basic labor laws)

[RC]

51. Even having our war toys made entirely in this country would help.

Even that is outsourced to China and elsewhere.

[defendandprotect]

106. Let's stop buying "war toys" ---

[defendandprotect]

105. Start taxing American corporations again --- in fact, don't let them back in --- !!!

[AzDar]

21. Absolutely agree. This is essential!

[CelticWinter]

33. I agree and

I would pay a little more for something made in the USA as long as it meant that people in my neighborhood and family were working. CEO's dont need large bonuses, that money can be reinvested into the work force so it can innovate new products. Along with the obvious--keeping our economy going, people working etc, I want to know what is going into what I buy---Mattel lost alot of my money this past holiday season I bought ZERO toys for my grandchild. Buying cheap junk costs us more in the long run with the loss of jobs, income for the towns, insurances, the list goes on. Maybe there is a Du'er out there who is a math whiz who could break it down how much a 99 cent item really cost us.
CelticWinter

[rucky]

9. Let's make stuff again...

through worker cooperatives.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative
http://www.mncooperate.org/

edited to add: http://www.thetake.org/index.cfm?page_name=synopsis

[ThomWV]

19. Workers would be making things if we weren't importing so much (plastic)

Doesn't matter if we were to make stuff out of plastic or some other material, if we didn't import so much plastic junk we'd at least be making more plastic junk at home, and with luck maybe even some non-plastic stuff that wasn't junk.

[rucky]

41. I heard there's great future in plastics...

[scarletwoman]

36. Yes! (nt)

[defendandprotect]

108. Block the corporations who took their manufacturing OUT of America from returning . . .

And let's raise --- to begin with -- a corporation to make ELECTRIC CARS ---
and start replacing all the gas-guzzlers on the highways ---

[Raksha]

156. I absolutely agree with you. I've been thinking about this for a long time.

About the worker co-ops, I mean. Bypass the damn globalist corporations entirely. It's pretty obvious at this point that they hate America and the American worker, so the hell with them.

I'm looking forward to reading your links.

[judy]

10. Stop the useless wars

in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Instead pay for the Iraqis and the Afghans to rebuild their own countries, at a 1000th of the current expense.
Use the $$ saved by paying for Universal Healthcare and Public Education, raise nurses and teachers salaries, refund public mental health, and public services to make homelessness a thing of the pre-Reagan past.
A no brainer :)

Oh, and on edit, I forgot: teach that greed is not a good thing, and that no one needs to be "Number One" to be happy!

[AzDar]

25. This would be my first action, if I were in charge: immediately pull troops out of Iraq.

I do worry, though, that without a legal mandate not to do so, the criminal cabal known as Big Oil would use the withdrawal as an excuse to jack oil up to 200.00/ barrel, thus causing further chaos and instability.

[judy]

130. Maybe there would be a way to stop this from happening...

and that would be to pull all the profiteers out of Iraq, from KBR to Exxon Mobil, and let the Iraqis negotiate deals for their own oil on a fair trade basis. That would do a lot toward unifying the country!
But if you did that Az, you probably would not be president for very long!

[The River]

11. Freeze Energy Prices

if the ppb rises let the oil companies eat it.

[Red Knight]

13. Create another bubble

Like the following article suggests---perhaps an "alternative energy" one.

Short of that, we'll probably crash pretty hard.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/02/0081908

[JanMichael]

15. It's a giant swindling machine or Ponzi Scheme.

Why save it? Why save a system that can't even figure out how to have a decent medical system for everyone? Or one that tolerates a massive (the biggest ever?) wealth divide between the haves and have nots?

Let's think up some alternatives;-)

[Greyhound]

89. You're on the right track.

The implementation would have to be carried out, very carefully, over a number of years to give people time to adjust, but this Ponzi scheme has to first be recognized for what it is.

[katty]

166. exactly

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. ummm....what economy?

Our economy for the most part consists of people borrowing money they don't actually have to buy things they don't really need that are made cheaply by underpaid workers in China. Our manufacturing base has been hollowed out, we have a negative savings rate, a looming consumer credit crisis, banking credit crisis, and government credit crisis. The dollar has lost fifty percent of its value on international currency markets in a little over half a decade; the value of American financial markets is illusory, being largely the result of churn and large investment funds and the Federal Reserve pumping money into the markets to maintain them at artificially high levels. Realistically, we're fucked.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. Restructure taxes to their 60's level.

Cut $200B from "Defense."


Uncap FICA.

Invest heavily in green technology, perhaps the $200B from DoD. :think:


Make dividends susceptible to the tax code, not limited to 15%.


Re-regulate.


...

[haele]

23. Re-introduce regulations, get rid of the tax cuts, start jobs programs -

fund education and health care - which can be done with the tax cut reduction. Fund housing - perhaps a buy-out/homesteading sort of program where the unsold and foreclosed on houses will be offered for the outstanding taxes to people who had filed a tax return the previous year - no corporations - with a "five year" live in contract; apartment housing to be rented out as section 8 until the complexes can be sold.

And "us capitalists" just have to face it - a business that is being run for profit will not provide "market incentives" or frankly, any value to services where the value is not in the commodity itself but in the outcome. The hand of the free market is targeted towards commodities - the quick sale than leave sort of deal, not warranties or life-time servicing. Health and education are more like warranties than they are commodities, you can't just leave one customer then go on to find the next once you've "made the sale", and your service always ends up being a drain on "profits" either on the front end (education) or the back end (health care).

Haele

[midnight armadillo]

24. Nothing.

Americans have compensated for the wealth in the last 30 years going towards the top 1% in 3 ways: 1st, women entered the workforce. 2nd, increased productivity. 3rd, debt. There's nothing left to tap. The house of cards made up of the the financial "innovation" of the last 10 years, along with the export of our manufacturing base, is all coming down.

[Jackpine Radical]

26. I thing four major thrusts. First, an FDR-style public works initiative.

Get to work rebuilding the infrastructure the Republicans have ignored since 1981--and while we're at it, put in a nationwide high-speed rail system. Use trucks only for local distribution--get them off the Interstates.

Second, a Green Revolution. Let's get serious about alternative energy and conservation. Put some real money into developing new battery technologies, solar, wind, etc. Develop new ways to heat & insulate buildings.

Third, an information revolution. It's a lot easier to move electrons around than big, lumpy things. Put in interactive, public super communication systems. People don't need to fly around to attend meetings, etc. if they can do virtual meetings with videophone-type technology. And of course higher education for all who have the aptitude and desire. We have a Medieval model of a university system; time to take advantage of all the new stuff & distribute it everywhere.

Fourth, as wealth is created, it should be distributed among the people responsible for its creation. That means the workers, not the Wall Street parasites. If a technological innovation decreases the net amount of work that has to be done, don't fire people; increase their wages commensurate with their increased productivity and shorten the work week.

[Adsos Letter]

59. Just curious...

Where do we get the money to deficit spend to create the programs of a "New Deal" type? Isn't deficit spending required in this situation?

[Jackpine Radical]

66. Sure. But remember there's more than one kind of deficit.

First, we get out of Iraq. Then we end the war on drugs. Then we develop a sane correctional system that doesn't incarcerate so many people. Then we dig out our old econ text books & read up on Keynsian economics. We'll still be in the hole for a while, but if we build the right efficiencies into the system, it will eventually correct itself. We're borrowing huge amounts now & pouring the funds down a number of ratholes. If we borrow but invest the money in our future, we can make the system work.

[FogerRox]

70. FDR used deficit spending to create jobs and build infrastucture

IIRc, it worked real good. By 1936, Louis Armstrong had the 1st million selling record, chevy sold a record number of cars.

The third rising of a middle class occurred during the Great Republican Depression of the early 1930's. FDR's New Deal brought forward tax progressivity, as well as labor rights earned thru the union movement, such as the Child Labor laws passed in 1937 & 1938,

[Jackpine Radical]

78. Exactly.

[FogerRox]

80. And returned to progressive taxation

http://rdanafox.blogspot.com/2006/11/tax-rates-middle-class.html

[Jackpine Radical]

82. OK, OK--

Progressive taxation
:hide:

I didn't say it explicitly, but I certainly see the necessity of some form of taxation that makes the rich pay their share, which they most certainly do not now. Those who benefit most from a given social system should be required to pay to support the system in proportion to the benefits they derive from it. I think all income, not just earned income, should be taxed at the same rate. No Capital Gains bullshit. The rich guy's investments should not be privileged over the poor man's sweat.

[FogerRox]

86. Progressive taxation engages the working and middle classes in the economy

regressive taxation taxes them out of the economy.

[FogerRox]

72. Probably the best overall answer. But you forget progressive taxation

My Parents got thru the Depression with a progressive income tax, we won WW2 with a progressive income tax. The 12 million men & woman that served in the military in WW2 came home, the GI Bill sent vets to college, and they started families. This created the largest, most vigorous and the best educated middle class, in the history of the planet. Labor unions were at the zenith of their power, our educational institutions were the envy of the world, corporations made money, the wealthiest made money.

[Lorien]

126. We arre sorta thinking along the same lines-see post #125. n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

27. Tax the rich and not the poor, no more money to Iraq profiteers, start social programs

that will hire vets and the poor to rebuild communities and community services. Rebuild public service centers in government. Turn the military budget and resources/personnel to human interest services, or cut it severely if it cannot be retooled.

[Joanne98]

28. Wage and price controls.

[ThomWV]

31. You might want to go back and see how things went when Nixon suggested that.

[FogerRox]

73. I remember.

[LWolf]

30. End the war.

Talk to DK about his WPA/WGA plans, as well as ending NAFTA/CAFTA and HR 676.

[Quantess]

93. Get out of Iraq.

Those trillions could have been better spent here in the USA. It's never too late to end the war, though.

[SoCalDem]

32. Hard regulation changes for banking, credit cards, energy health care industries

reinstatement of usury laws.. for starters

[Earth_First]

35. Haven't you been paying attention?

CONSUME.

[MissWaverly]

37. Just a suggestion, don't know if it is doable, though

GO after the lawbreakers, the contractors that took our tax dollars and did sweet nothing with it, whether it was in New Orleans
or Iraq, make them make pay restitution. Stop all funding of military weapons that have cost overruns of more than 30%. Stop giving
corporations the same protection as people. This would stop the endless appeals that corporations do to get out of penalties for
messing up the environment whether it's an oil spill or a harmful product. And last but not least make sure that banks qualify
for bail outs. If firms have skirted regulation and taxation by claiming they are not banks, then they should not be eligible
for bail outs.

[OmahaBlueDog]

38. Short term, not much

Some of this just has to shake out. At some level, the government bailouts are only making things worse and delaying the inevitable.

It's easy to say "revitalize manufacturing", but if you've been to a modern CNC machining facility, you quickly realize that modern machines can turn bar stock into widgets faster, and with more precision, than a dozen skilled machinists 25 years ago. Computer controlled laser cutters can cut plate stock like cookie dough. Sure -- there will still be needs for welders, material handlers, and drivers for this stuff -- but the days of factories needing thousands of people to machine and assemble parts are ending.

The good news is that people are needed to program computers for these facilities. Every business I go to is screaming for qualified drivers, health care is screaming for people, trade work (electricians, plumbers) is still solid. There are jobs to be had.

The way I see it, 3 things need to happen:

1. The government needs to stop incurring more debt. This means:
A. The war in Iraq needs to end, and we need more help in Afghanistan
B. The Bush tax cuts need to be rolled back.
C. Government spending needs to be slashed
D. The age for receiving SS will need to be raised, gradually, to 72
E. Medicare and Medicaid should be scrapped in favor of a National Health Plan. In the long run, it will cost less.

2. The trade imbalance needs to be addressed. This means:
A. A mandate to reach energy independence by any means necessary, save for drilling for more oil, as soon as possible
B. A reexamination of our trade policy with China
C. A reexamination of NAFTA.

3. The government should invest what capital it can into job training and retraining. Many Americans could be in better jobs with as little as 6 months of training, but these people need someone to watch their kids while they are at school, or need time away from their minimum wage job to get the training to get them into a $10-20 an hour job.

Mortgage fundamentals need to return. Does that mean 20% down on a 15 year loan. No, but the age of interest only loans on 105% value of the property with no income verification need to end. Americans (especially young people) need to be educated that there still affordable places to live in cities like Pittsburgh, Indy, Des Moines, Omaha, etc., and that these towns have considerable opportunity to offer.

[RC]

71. D. No - E. Hell No!

"D. The age for receiving SS will need to be raised, gradually, to 72
E. Medicare and Medicaid should be scrapped in favor of a National Health Plan. In the long run, it will cost less."


The answer to Social Security is to stop raiding the fund. Period!

Medicare and Medicaid is the start for National Health Car plan. Even with the waste and fraud, it is still cheaper than anything else this country has.
GET THE INSURANCE COMPANIES OUT OF THE HEALTH CARE BUSINESS!!!
At the very least make them NON profit and regulated.

[OmahaBlueDog]

81. You can't continue giving benefits at 65 & 67

to a population that is increasingly living into their 90s and 100s. The math just doesn't work.

On E, I think we're essentially saying the same thing -- we need a national health plan.

[RC]

95. I have two more years to go now before I can retire.

And that is because they already raised the age I can retire once. I've been on my own and working since I was 17.
I would like a few years of quality life before the growing annoyances become life altering. It's looking as if my S.O. will most likely be having her own set of problems also.
My dad is in a home, confined to a wheel chair because he can't stand unaided. And he mostly deaf and has been totally blind for 4 years now. He is 86 and otherwise still sharp. What kind of life is that? I have other plans first.

So Hell No! Just because people are living into their 90's and beyond does not mean they are 'living' any kind of quality life.

[kineneb]

181. problem: no one wants to hire those over 50. What then?

Ageism is alive and well in the US. There simply are not enough (decent paying*) jobs for the over 50 crowd. And remember, at around age 50, many people start having physical problems which can limit their employability. Even with national healthcare, which is only a dream, employers only want the cheapest employees, which are also the youngest.

*above minimum wage

Your ideas are fine in an Ideal World(tm). This, however, is not that world.

As to saving the economy, fergettit. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Stick a fork in it, it is done for.

[Peace Patriot]

92. OmahaBlueDog, you are true to your name. I heard these "Blue Dogs" on C-Span

right after '06, and they wanted to cut everything in the budget except war spending--the opposite of what needs to be done: drastically slash the military budget, and greatly INCREASE social spending.

You say (1-A) "The war in Iraq needs to end." True enough, but then what of this humongous military budget? How much would you cut? I say 90%. That's all we need for any real defense. And if we don't do that, we are left wide open to FUTURE wars of choice, and with an unproductive economy in which the only choice for many poor kids is becoming cannon fodder. You say (1-C) "Government spending needs to be slashed," but you don't say what.

However, you hint at it, in (1-D) "The age for receiving SS will need to be raised, gradually, to 72." Take it out of the hides of the poor! That's the "Blue Dog" agenda.

Do you have any idea what it's like to be 72 years old and needing to work? I do. I have personal experience of it among family and friends, who can't live on Social Security, as it is. Can't LIVE. Can't eat. Can't heat their homes. Can't buy essentials. Worked all their lives, paid taxes all their lives, raised kids, served in the military, or served their communities in other ways. Old, tired, at an age when episodes of flu or injury take ten times as long to heal, as when they were young--if they do heal. Illness and injury present a greater risk of the death, in the aged--and working increases the risk of both. No retirement. No rest. No leisure. And with NO Social Security, until 72, they'd have to work FULL TIME for basics--IF they can find someone who will employ them at that age. At AT 72, they STILL won't be able to retire. Many cannot do it NOW. They have to work part-time--or starve.

Who else will pay for "fiscal responsibility" after two decades of tax cuts for the rich, and outright looting of our government AND private coffers by the corporate? The S&L lootings, the credit card usurers, the gas gougers, the home loan sharks, the big tax dodgers, the privatizing looters of our public services, the leeches on our military, the "Star Wars" profiteers, the failed "war on drugs" and its police state profiteers. Who pays? The "Blue Dog" answer is: the victims. The poor, the helpless, the elderly, the young, the disabled, the sick, the veterans, the workers.

I wonder why you leave out Afghanistan as to ending wars. What the hell are we doing in that country, except vastly increasing heroin production and fostering the Taliban? We have no business there. We never did. Which brings me back to the military budget. Do you envision permanently extended war profiteering? The U.S. all over the globe, a war here, a war there--maybe not the big bash that Iraq is (for now), but enough U.S.-instigated messes to keep war profiteers in clover, through Great Depression II, ON THE BACKS OF OUR POOR AND OUR ELDERLY?

When you say "slash government spending," what do you mean?

(1-E) "Medicare and Medicaid should be scrapped in favor of a National Health Plan. In the long run, it will cost less." Medicare is one of the few of our government programs that is working right--maybe the only one. So, yeah, slash THAT! And replace it with a "National Health Plan" that primarily benefits whom? The insurance giants? The pharmaceutical giants? The medical care profiteers? Show me your program--before you "scrap" one that WORKS!

Next we'll be hearing about 72 year old "Medicare Queens"--living in the luxury of 3 meals a day in convalescent hospitals that actually wash their floors.

"National Health Plan" including WHAT players? Benefiting whom? As to cost--"it will cost less"--in reality, it will cost less if we remove all profiteering from health care, as it should be. Health care is a HUMAN RIGHT. It needn't cost a lot, if you eliminate those who profiteer off of other peoples' misery, and provide doctors with a free education--as they do in Cuba (to very good effect).

I don't disagree with you on (3) "job training and retraining," and I think you are right about various fields of work that are crying for qualified workers, but I think you are leaving something out in your example of a CNC machining facility, and that is government incentives to companies that preserve old skills and older ways of doing things, for their own sake--and, like seed preservation, for the sake of humanity, for the future, if needed. For cultural and "seed corn" reasons. Who knows, at what point, we may NEED to revert to old skills?

Further, there is the matter of happiness. Remember that concept, written into our revolutionary documents--the "pursuit of happiness"? Are not skilled machinists and carpenters and other craftspeople, on the whole, HAPPIER utilizing skills of the hand and of the creative brain, than bonging away at a keyboard? Retraining would be relevant if you can turn a machinist into an electrician or a plumber--possibly--although, for the skilled machinist, it might be difficult, and he or she may never be comfortable in it, whereas, machining, they would be HAPPY. Because it is SATISFYING to utilize your best skills.

And so, why should these kinds of policies be solely dictated by "market forces"? More and more and more "efficiency"--for one purpose only, the profit of the rich in a frenzied, planet-killing economy--and more and more and more abandonment of human values. You can make more tomatoes and ship them to more places by large-scale corporate monoculture, using pesticides and tomatoes bred for their tough skins and frost resistance (cross bred with arctic fish--I'm not kidding--a Monsanto project!), but you can't beat an INEFFICIENT little Italian organic farmer for making a tomato you want to eat--that is heaven to eat.

Human skills--old and new--are a precious resource, and it is an excellent and worthy use of our common funds, our taxes, to preserve old skills, as well as foster new ones.

The brutal philosophy of "neo-liberalism"--driven by greed, and recognizing no other value--is killing us all, is killing our humanity, and is killing the planet. OTHER values, besides "cost," and "efficiency," and "competition," and "dog eat dog" greed, MUST be re-introduced and fostered. And government incentives (taxes, duties, penalties, subsidies) are a time-honored way of doing it, and are the policy in many countries today--to preserve a quality food supply, to preserve skills, artistry and craftsmanship of various kinds, to preserve COMMUNITIES, to preserve national sovereignty as to various products and manufacturing capability, and for many different SOCIAL purposes.

It may be our society's collective decision that machine skills are expendable, but preserving them should most certainly be a factor in our use of our own funds--our taxes--for the common good that WE decide upon. Trade is a time-honored human activity as well, and can have great positive social value. But it is not the only thing of importance, and those whose sole focus is profiting from trade should NOT have the only say in how our society is run, and in what we use our COMMON resources to encourage or to preserve. A company owner or CEO can still decide to replace human machine skills with machines--but we, as a society, can offer him or her the option of preserving human skills, and jobs, with incentives that compensate for losses in profit, or penalties on profit, if important social values are at risk. In your example, you presume that nothing but "market forces" should determine what happens. I strongly disagree with that narrow view.

[OmahaBlueDog]

128. I'd pretty much rather have root canal than watch C-Span

<<what of this humongous military budget? How much would you cut? I say 90%>>
I don't know what the figure is, but yes -- BIG cuts are in order.

<<Do you have any idea what it's like to be 72 years old and needing to work>>
Yes -- my family is about evenly split between those working onto their 70s and not.

<<However, you hint at it, in (1-D) "The age for receiving SS will need to be raised, gradually, to 72." Take it out of the hides of the poor! That's the "Blue Dog" agenda. >>

Social Security is an insurance program. We pay in, it pays out -- either to the disabled, or to the aged. I'm sure you get that. As a group, we live longer -- I'm sure you get that as well. It was never intended to be the sole income source for the aged; it was intended as a supplement to pensions and savings. Many people don't get that. The original idea was tht most recepients wouldn't collect for more than about 10 years. Times have changed, and the "boomers" are going to start collecting at 67, and many will live well into their 80s and 90s. The system was't designed for that -- and not enough money was collected because nobody anticipated the broad medical advances we made. As I told someoone in another thread -- it's not politics, it's math. If you want to limit or eliminate payouts to the wealthy, that's another way you can handle it. Bottom line: SS needs more money and it ned to pay out less.


<<Medicare and Medicaid should be scrapped in favor of a National Health Plan. In the long run, it will cost less.>>

I think we're talking cross purposes here. What I'm saying is that a unified government insured or reinsured plan, either run directly by the government, or heavily regulated not-for-profit insurors would covering all Americans would cost the State & Federal governments less in the long run. I'm not in favor of scrapping Medicare unless an effective national alternative exists.

<<Human skills--old and new--are a precious resource, and it is an excellent and worthy use of our common funds, our taxes, to preserve old skills, as well as foster new ones.>>

You and I would agree that a key role of government is to stop the expediency of the marketplace. I sense that's where our agreement would end. I'm for promoting those skills that will bring the most value to the economy and are in the most demand. For example, we need skilled and semi-skilled individuals in almost every aspect of the medical profession. I talk to businesses every day who are screaming for qualified semi-drivers. But preserving skills? Maybe that's a good role for a philanthropic enterprise, but it's not the role of government. Yes, you have the right to pursue happiness, and make buggy whips, or make carriages, or become a potter, or anything you wish -- but that doesn't mean you get a blank check to underwrite that. I've been to businesses that can't give old punch presses away; I'be been to others that only run their big presses with progressive dies when spare parts are needed.

<<When you say "slash government spending," what do you mean? >>
I mean we're about 9 and a half trillion in the hole. The Bushies have driven the ship of state on the rocks, and made a damn good attempt at drowning the dovernment in their proverbial bathtub. Every year, the Feds collect about 2 and a half trillion, and it's not enough to fund everything our brilliant government dreams up. Right now, the Feds literally treat this debt as a variable rate, interest only loan. I bet you know what happens to homeowners with variable rate, interest only loans when the valu of their homes drop -- it ain't pretty. This is what will happen to us as a nation if we don't start taking care of this debt now. Would I like to do something else with the money, like spend more on healthcare, education, literacy, or redevelopment. Yes -- I would. However, if we don't take care of the debt, it will allow our creditors to swallow the nation whole - we'll be ruined with a worthless currency.

To put it in a simplistic perspective, if we put a hard cap on debt, and started paying down the debt, it would be akin to an individual with $25000 in take home pay paying $650 a month on a 30 year mortgage on a $95000 home. It's not comfy, but we can do it. As our income rises, and our debt falls, our government could start to do the things it should have been doing for the last 30 years.

I realize that you are not going to agree with me, but I've enjoyed exchanging views.

[Peace Patriot]

160. It was the day after the Nov 06 election. I was very excited about the Democratic sweep.

I was driving to work, and switched on C-Span radio, in joyous anticipation of NOT hearing fascists talking about their next devil with oil war target or jailing flagburners or more waterboardng of our government. I wanted to hear our Democratic victors' plan for ending the war, stopping the Bush-Cheney crime wave (a list of "high crimes and misdemeanors" long enough to circle the earth), restoring the Constitution, announcing their "New Deal" for the ravaged poor and middle class...

And who grabbed the air waves? The "Blue Dogs"--whom I associate with Gary Condit, that traitor Democrat who voted for Bush-Cheney's first tax cut for the rich, on May 3, 2001, two days after one of his secret mistresses, Chandra Levy, disappeared.

All they talked about was "the deficit"--like Herbert Hoover. Cut, cut, cut everything in the budget. I waited and waited and waited, and FINALLY the C-Span interviewer asked, "What about the Defense budget?" Oh, no, no, got to support our troops, blah, blah, blah.

The interviewer had said that Nancy Pelosi was in the studio to introduce these brand-spanking new war/corporate Democrats to the country. But she never spoke. That was odd.

I understood immediately that our Congressional victory had been useless. More and more billions for war. Continued lawlessness. Continued massive looting of the federal and state treasuries. Continued downward spiral to Great Depression II. Like others, I rallied my hopes, at different points during the Diebold II Congress, but of course they were either so dirty and so blackmailed by the Bush Junta that they could NOT do anything but rubberstamp more disaster and lawlessness, or they were Bushite fascists with a "D" in front of their names, and actually approved of it all.

Social Security was, indeed, intended to be sufficient income for the elderly retired poor. That was the whole point. There were virtually NO private pension plans for workers at that time. The government did encourage people to save money--in S&L's, which were sacred cows when I was young. No one dared gamble with THAT money--the peoples' small savings to buy them a little extra when they retired, and for emergencies. Unions began negotiating pensions in the '50s--and, if they purged their ranks of communists, and were good little consumers, they got pensions. And, when I was young, no one dared gamble with those funds either.

So now, due to Reaganites, Bushites and "Blue Dog" Democrats, we have a nation of LOOTED pension funds, LOOTED Social Security (they're borrowing against it to pay for the oil war), rising unemployment, outsourced jobs and manufacturing, a crashed home mortgage market with increasing homelessness, a deliberately induced $10 trillion deficit comprised of tax cuts for the rich and the looting expedition in Iraq, a pure disaster of de-regulation on every front, gay marriage held at bay, and no FDR on the horizon.

You "fiscal responsibility" Dogs make me laugh.

[OmahaBlueDog]

179. That's lovely..

Blame me, blame Gary Condit, Hell...blame Chandra Levy for all I care.

I agree that Republicans are mostly (not entirely) to blame for the current state of pensions, the current state of our National debt, and gross fiscal mismanagement. Nevertheless, knowing that does not make the fact that Social Security is underfunded go away. It does not make the fact that we owe 9 1/2 Trillion dollars -- mostly to the Chinese and Petrostates -- go away. We also agreee that there is no FDR out there, so when you're done laughing at me, maybe you'd care to put forward how you'd solve these problems. (Hint: even if we cut the $500 billion defense budget to $50, you're still about $170 bilion short of making any meaningful dent in the national debt, and I'm assuming you can balance the budget -- which currently runs about $300 B per year in the red. OK -- you've cut defense -- from where is the other $470 B coming?)

[Peace Patriot]

184. The goal should not be cutting the deficit, the goal should be stimulating

our peoples's industriousness and creativity, and creating new life in our economy. You're looking at things through the wrong end of the tube. Deficit cutters and anti-inflationists and "Blue Dogs" always do. You don't RESTORE the country's vitality--which is the key to future prosperity and SOLVING the deficit--by getting all mean and crabby and Scrooge-like about social funding. You have to INCREASE social funding, WHILE you cut out the bad parts of the budget--the parts that make wars of choice easy and tempting, the parts that subsidize the rich and the super-rich, the parts that subsidize corporations who take their jobs to India, the parts wasted on propagandizing South Americans about how they're gonna love fascist dictatorships again, the parts that spend billions of dollars on electronic voting machines with "trade secret" programming, the parts that pay big telecoms to spy on us, the parts that give out no-bid contracts with guaranteed profits, the parts that pay for secret vaults where Dick Cheney hides his documents, the parts that pay for the failed, corrupt "war on drugs," the parts that pay $30,000/year to keep non-violent offenders (75% of our prison population) in prison for long sentences. Eliminating the utter waste, and misuse of funds, and billion dollar crony contracts, that have been looting us for eight years (and, indeed, for decades), alone, would probably reduce the deficit by half. Finally, you bust up every monopoly--whether of news or energy, or any other product--to free up our peoples' inventive and entreprenurial talents, and re-introduce COMPETITION.

Put ME in charge of the budget, and you'll see weeping fatcats all over the Beltway. They can live on $40,000 a year like most Americans. Why should we be subsidizing a high lifestyle for all of Washington DC and its contractors and lobbyists? Why should legislators make more than average Americans? Why should CEOs make a thousand times what their workers make, often subsidized by the federal treasury?

You "Blue Dogs" are just too craven toward corporate powers. It inhibits your thinking. You treat global corporations like the Church in the Middle Ages--a sacrosanct, OUTSIDE power, that pervades and controls peoples' lives, and that you fear will damn you to Hell if you challenge them. Challenging them is unthinkable to you. We do not have to have these predators looting our treasury--directly or by tax breaks--or counting all our votes with secret code, or writing our laws. We can bust them. We are a SOVEREIGN people. We can do whatever WE think is best. And paying hundreds of times what it costs to handcount our votes, for electronic voting machines that steal our elections, is absurd. Nuts. And very, very costly. Paying Halliburton a hundred times what it costs for the army to have its own cooks is nuts. Paying Blackwater mercenaries a hundred times what we pay our soldiers is nuts. This kind of gross, thieving mismanagement now CHARACTERIZES our government. Get rid of it, clean house, and there's the rest of your budget deficit.

We're being LOOTED. It's not a matter of what things cost. It's a matter of WHO'S SETTING THE PRICE. THINK of the cost of fueling battleships and aircraft and jeeps and all the rest, and the banditry that is currently going on with oil prices. Think creatively--and change your name to "Green Dogs" or "Purple Dogs," or whatever you like. ("Blue Dogs" was a stupid thing anyway--that Gary Condit revived, in order to serve Bushites--some old boy Louisiana Senator's painting of a blue dog on his wall. Why do you want that as your heritage?)

[Ikonoklast]

39. Destroy the Federal Reserve System

As long as there is a Fed, we as a nation have no real control over our currency.

Since the dollar isn't backed by precious metals anymore, there is no need for the member banks of the Fed to back up our money.

It is a scam perpetrated by the wealthy to loot this country.

And it finally accomplished that goal.

[HamdenRice]

42. What a horrible, horrible idea

I'm amazed at the number of "gold bugs" -- as they used to call them in the late 1800s/early 1900s -- on DU.

Anti fed gold bugs used to only be far right wing, pro corporate, Wall St elites. Now thanks to Ron Paul parroting this nonsense, many progressives have taken up the gold bug fever.

The fundamental idiocy of gold bug ideology can be summed up with three numbers:

The total value of the entire planetary stock of gold is $3.65 trillion.

The total value of all goods and services produced in the US last year is $13 trillion.

The total value of all goods and services produced in the world last year was $65 trillion.

So how the f**k can global GDP be represented by a precious metal whose value is 1/20th of global GDP?

It can't. The overwhelming majority of us would have to remain extremely poor through limits on currency growth and the owners of gold would hold us hostage like in the "good old days" of the robber barrons.

[bicentennial_baby]

46. Exactly

:thumbsup:

[Ikonoklast]

49. Never said to go back to the gold standard

There is no reason on earth that the government of this country shouldn't control its own currency.

You are reading something into the post that isn't there.

Why do we need a private corporation telling the Treasury how much money to print, and then charging interest on that very same money, just for the right to lend it to ourselves? Why not just set up a true Federal agency, subject to direct government control, to review the economy and call for increases in the money supply, and the market rate at which that money is distributed?

The Fed is a con game.

Thomas Jefferson said it best.

"If the American people ever allow private banks
to control the issue of their money,
first by inflation and then by deflation,
the banks and corporations that will
grow up around them (around the banks),
will deprive the people of their property
until their children will wake up homeless
on the continent their fathers conquered."

We are now seeing the consequences of ignoring that warning.

[HamdenRice]

50. quote "Since the dollar isn't backed by precious metals anymore"

But even that aside you are still spouting far right wing nutjob theories of the fed. The fed is indeed a government agency. In case you didn't notice, the fed chairman is appointed by the President with the consent of Congress.

It is a government agency that, like almost every decent central bank in the world, is to some extent insulated from short term political pressure.

So is the Supreme Court. You might as well argue that the Supreme Court is also a private corporation because Congress can't simply dictate its interpretation of the law.

It is completely scary that ultra right wing nutcase theories about the fed -- which was established by a Democratic administration -- have gained traction on DU.

[bicentennial_baby]

53. Check out the article in the NYT magazine about the SC

"Supreme Court, inc."

[HamdenRice]

54. Point taken! Bad example, huh?

Given roberts, alito, thomas, scalia et al!

:rofl:

[bicentennial_baby]

56. Heehee...

I haven't read it all yet...Long piece. Cooking for St Paddy's day keeps me busy :)

But yeah, :rofl:

[Ikonoklast]

55. Actually, 'far-right wing nutjobs' established the Federal Reserve

The Fed is NOT a true governmental agency. It is a public-private consortium.

The Federal Reserve System (also the Federal Reserve; informally The Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. Created in 1913 by the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act, it is a quasi-public (part private, part government) banking system<1> composed of (1) the presidentially-appointed Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in Washington, D.C.; (2) the Federal Open Market Committee; (3) 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation acting as fiscal agents for the U.S. Treasury, each with its own nine-member board of directors; (4) numerous private U.S. member banks, which subscribe to required amounts of non-transferable stock in their regional Federal Reserve Banks; and (5) various advisory councils. Currently, Ben Bernanke serves as the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.

[TheWatcher]

91. And as per usual, you get Crickets when you post something like this.

I have come to finally be at peace with the fact that most people are simply going to believe whatever makes them feel comfortable about The Fed. Everything you posted I agree with, but the problem is, you simply are not going to be able to get most people to see it.

I think Craig Harris said it best the other day, in an article I was reading about concerning Stagflation and Hyperinflation.

"It is becoming increasingly difficult for people who live in the real world to communicate with those who don't, and there is an increasing number of those who don't just simply because most people believe what they are told and the lies they are being told are now monumental. Astronomical in size. That's one of those universal rules about human beings; the majority will always go along with whatever you tell them. That's just the way it always has been and always will be. All good propagandists know that."

That about sums up our country in a perfect nutshell.

I respect those that try, but I think we are at the point where history is going to play itself out, the Hard Rain is going to fall, and most people are going to spend the rest of their days convincing themselves that the sky is blue and they aren't getting wet.

[Ikonoklast]

99. The Fed was set up for the benefit of private banks. Period.

And we are seeing the results, 'reductio ad absurdium', that after all the regulation has been stripped from the banking system for the last twenty-five years, the massive greed and fraud that has destroyed the currency and brought our economy to the point of hyperinflation.

I wonder if the Fed apologists here would have been so quick to cheerlead for the partial privatization of our military vis-a-vis Halliburton, KBR, and Blackwater, and what a screaming success that has been.

It was done solely for the purpose of looting the Treasury. Same deal. Same thieves.

[HamdenRice]

101. No, it wasn't

The banks and corporations opposed it. The Fed Act was written by Democrats and by the time it was enacted Wall Street and the corporations opposed it.

[HamdenRice]

100. Perhaps you hear crickets because

those of us who deal with historical facts don't necessarily want to engage with right wing propoganda as though there is actually something reality based individuals can talk about with respect to such ravings.

[HamdenRice]

98. Far right nutjobs like Woodrow Wilson & Democratic Congress of 1913 & FDR?

Who, pray tell, are the right wing nutjobs who established the Fed? Because the historical record tells us it was the progressive Democratic Congress of 1913 and Woodrow Wilson. Then it was strengthened into its current form by Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

I realize that some right wingers are still pissed off by FDR's gold "confiscation" during the Great Depression, but packaging right wing paranoia as left wing populism doesn't change facts.

So tell us, o wise one, who are the right wingers who established the Fed?

[Ikonoklast]

102. You know about Jekyll Island, right?

In November 1910, seven wealthy men left the Northeastern US on trains to do some duckhunting on an island off Brunswick, Georgia. They carried all their duckhunting gear in plain sight, so that any snooping reporter could see that they were going duckhunting. And reporters really snooped in those days. The Reform Era muckrakers were still at their 1890s-1912 peak, producing exposés that still startled everybody.

On arrival, the duckhunters moved into a posh resort owned by JP Morgan -- on Jekyll Island.

In later years, at least one of the men admitted that he had never shot a duck, and never intended to. Another of the men later punned that the duckhunting was "a blind".

The seven wealthy men were surrogates of national government and powerful financiers. The financiers were seeming competitors, subordinate to and regulated by the government. However the surrogates were not at Jekyll Island to sharpen their apparent relationships. They were there to agree on unconstitutional collusions between private corporations and government, which would restrict their lesser competitors and allow them to create debt-based money secured by nothing but thin air, from which they and their cronies could get rich by endless multiplication of debt-created money in the financial treason called "fractional reserve banking". They were there to bring the deceits, corruptions, frauds, and murderous machinations of centuries-old European central banking to the US. They were there to keep the rabble down and to keep the right people up.

They were -- Nelson W. Aldrich (Republican whip in the Senate and father-in-law to John D. Rockefeller, Jr.) -- A. Piat Andrew (Asst Secretary of the Treasury) -- Henry P. Davison, Sr. (partner in JP Morgan Company) -- Charles D. Norton (President, 1st National Bank of New York) -- Benjamin Strong (head of JP Morgan's Bankers Trust, later chairman of the Federal Reserve) -- Frank A. Vanderlip (President, National City Bank of New York, representing William Rockefeller) -- Paul M. Warburg (partner in Kuhn, Loeb & Company, representing the Rothschilds and Warburgs in Europe).




Those right-wing nutjobs.

[HamdenRice]

103. And you know about the 1913 Democratic Congress, right?

Aldrich was sent off to Europe to study central banking. He left thinking it was a bad (ie progressive) idea. He came back with a changed mind. He made certain initial moderately progressive proposals that business supported. By that time the Jekyll Island proposals were dead in the water.

By the time the 1913 Congress came up with a plan for a central bank -- the Fed -- the banks and corporations were opposed to it, because it required the Fed to be operated in the national interest to maximize full employment for workers.

(But you knew that, right?)

The Fed has been a progressive Democratic institution ever since -- at least up till 1980. The right wing nutjobs have been railing against it ever since -- especially after FDR got his hands on it.

Since Volker, the Fed chair has, unfortunately been a Republican who has operated it in ways that don't live up to its potential, but its existence is a liberal Democratic triumph.

If all our country's output had to be valued in gold -- all our innovation, all the new technology, all the new creativity, the books, plays, novels, dvds, tv programs, new medicines, inventions, additional steel, bricks, lumber, etc. -- all increases in value would go to gold holders, not to the workers, inventors, creators, entreprenuers, etc.

Sorry, but you are a sucker who has been fooled by right wing, anti-New Deal propoganda.

[Greyhound]

138. It was a Democratic Congress, but just as we can plainly see today,

Democratic is not synonymous with liberal anymore than Republik is synonymous with conservative. BTW it was passed on December 23, when over a quarter of the Senate (27) had already gone home for the holiday. If you look into the accounts of the day, you will find that this was no mere coincidence, the heart of the opposition was assured that no action would be taken until after the recess, so they were free to enjoy the holidays.

It is tied directly to Nelson Aldrich and a consortium of bankers and government officials who conspired to control the US economy and prevent the possibility of another Teddy Roosevelt stopping them like the last time.

This idea that Democrat = progressive is a very effective distraction from the cabal that has ruled this country since the 19th century.

[TheWatcher]

147. But once again, you get Crickets from the poster who thinks he knows everything about the Fed.

You and Ikonoklast are wasting your time bringing things like this up.

People will take from history whatever makes them feel comfortable and good, and wrap themselves in a bubble that says everything is fine, nothing exists, anything outside the paradigm of my beliefs and understanding is conspiracy whackery or Evil Propaganda, designed to make me think the way I shouldn't.

Unfortunately, all the superior indifference in the world and adherence to Acceptable Reality will not change the consequences of what we face now, because of that which we chose to ignore.

History is about to play out.

I only hope that the generations moving forward will learn from it, and not repeat it.

[Greyhound]

168. I hope so too.

I am too old and have been watching this play out for too long to have any optimism any longer. We've been dumbed down and anesthetized to the point that active thought is an unknown to most. Individual research is too much work and reading has become some weird hobby that strange and suspicious people engage in.

When television was invented, it was recognized as a revolution in communication and the means by which the whole population could be enlightened. That lasted about 15 years. It then became the means to propagandize people into believing in, and behaving like, whatever the masters wish, and it has worked beyond their wildest dreams.

The internet is following the very same pattern, though it will take longer to bring under control because of the open architecture, but they're working on it every day.

[El Pinko]

40. With Bush in office, nothing.

He has shown himself to be completely hostile to any sort of meaningful economic reform - just more of the same, borrow and spend and cut taxes for the rich.

When the new democratic president takes office, we will be in the throes of a severe recession that will be getting worse by the day. It will take a total withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan as well as a scaling back in some other places we have people stationed, a large cutback in standing troop levels and weapons procurement, and a huge reinvestment in renewable clean energy and rebuilding our infrastructure (hopefully in a way that will complement new clean-energy vehicles). IT needs to be as high a priority as the space program in the 60s - I think doing so will put millions to work in the early stages and produce huge economic benefits later, as well as inspire confidence from the rest of the world that we can do something constructive and forward thinking OTHER than pointless wars and gambling on houses and then using them as ATMs.

[MindPilot]

43. Quit pretending that Wall Street is the be-all and end-all of human existence

There is very little difference between the Trading Floor at the New York Stock Exchange and the sports book at Cesar's Palace.

[leftofthedial]

45. find a country with vast reserves of Euros

and preemptively invade it.

[MilesColtrane]

154. If by invade, you mean dropping things that go Kablooey, and if by...

...a country with vast reserves of Euros, you mean Iran; then Cheney's over there on the case as we post.

[Peace Patriot]

47. Oh, that's easy!

End the Iraq War. $12 billion per week. Invest it in green energy science and startups. That would turn the economy around tomorrow. And you could STILL pay the Iraqis a goodly sum per head for every one we've killed, tortured or displaced, AND rebuild their country.

Other ideas):

Progressive tax: More billions--from the people who can afford it. There's your universal health care system. And the wages, income and credit of the working classes freed up to pour money back into the economy.

Big fines: For all war criminals and war profiteers. I mean BIG. Pour it into the education system.

Nationalize the oil industry: As in Venezuela, require that 60% of the country's oil profits be used to benefit the country and its people (schools, infrastructure, small business loans, land reform, stimulate local manufacturing and local arts, whatever's needed). (And you wonder why Bushites and their lapdog corporate news media hate, and relentlessly slander, lie about and demonize Hugo Chavez?)

Re-regulate corporate looters and criminals: Across the board. Job exporters. Tax dodgers. Credit card usurers. Market speculators. Bad banks. Polluters. Free up a lot of money--and acquire back taxes and BIG fines as well.

Cut Defense spending: Cut the military budget by 90%, down to a true defensive posture (no more wars of choice!). Free up all that tax money for people to create real businesses and real (fair) trade.

Stop funding the "war on drugs": Total waste of billions and billions of dollars.

Empty the prisons: Free the 75% of non-violent offenders in our prison system, and GIVE them half the money it takes to keep them in prison for unfairly LONG sentences (approx. $30,000/yr, minimum), to start new lives with, and put the other half into rehab and other assistance.

You asked. I'm answering. It's REAL EASY to turn things completely around with simple common sense. But we haven't had that in our political establishment since at least the Reagan era.

Oh, and one more thing that is costing us billions (and, if the truth were known, multi-trillions): END electronic voting run on 'trade secret,' proprietary programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations. Counting votes in public view is not only simple and transparent, it is by far the cheapest way to run elections. The billions spent on the e-voting boondoggle has corrupted election officials all over the country, and is the MOST expensive, and LEAST transparent, method of counting votes ever devised. It is, to put it simply, nuts. No common sense at all. Change THAT, and you will soon find our country back on the right track toward democracy, fairness, progress and prosperity.

[pitohui]

48. i have several ideas

1) a "new deal" that includes good jobs improving the infrastructure but as in the old "new deal" will also provide good jobs for writers, designers, other creative people -- remember the $3 million dollar terrazo floor in the hoover dam, that provided a nice job for a designer, for the installers, etc -- and it's still a wonderful work of practical art today -- i envision a "new deal" that uses all of america's talents, not just our gift for cutting down forests

2) a cap on earnings or confiscatory taxes at the top end -- there can be NO MORE CEO's who receive tens of millions of dollars to loot companies, ideally, these CEOs and CFOs would be jailed but i'm dreaming here, i'll settle for having such obscene compensation confiscated and re-distributed to the people

3) a lock box on social security, old people cannot be left in fear of leaving their jobs because of threats to destroy social security thru defunding, bankruptcy of the usa gov't, or "means testing" -- every good job an older person is afraid to leave is a good job that a middle-aged person never gets a chance to move up to

4) aggressive auditing of all tax returns of folks who have more than $5 million in assets to see if they have paid proper tax on those assets -- today's IRS is focused on aggressive auditing of the poor and middle class, why? because we can't defend ourselves with high-priced tax lawyers, this is craziness, it's like mining for gold in the chicken shit plant, it ain't gonna work

5) an immediate rise in the minimum wage and an end to the practice of importing cheap labor from foreign lands -- we had an article the other day in our local paper about plants importing workers from central america who will work for $9 an hour, well, guess what, lincoln freed the slaves, and no one can survive on $9 an hour in the post-k environment unless they're living in a tent and shitting in a drainage canal and this crap needs to be illegal and the plant owners who want to pay slave wages should be given prison sentences and they can work for prison wages in angola as far as i'm concerned

6)universal health care for all -- and NO opt-out for the rich, once the rich can go into an alternative system, then it turns out like the public school does, everyone must participate in the same system and work thru that system so that we all enjoy the benefits of today's health care technology -- otherwise why should i donate one dime of my tax money to new health discoveries that are never applied to people of my class but only extend the life and well-being of the wealthy?



call me a commie if you like but while my plan wouldn't please the billionaire, it would sure turn things around for the rest of us

[VotesForWomen]

52. import tariffs and much higher minimum wage. nt

[bemildred]

57. Yep, protectionism got us where we were, and globalism will just keep screwing us. nt

[AzDar]

60. A little protectionism is a good thing.

:patriot:

[scarletwoman]

61. How about more recs for this great thread? I love seeing all the good ideas here! (nt)

[Angela Shelley]

62. Here´s a kick so that you can keep enjoying this thread.

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. Right now? Nothing.

No effective measures stand a chance in the current political framework.

[Initech]

64. Lower the god damn gas prices.

Everyone I know is feeling the pinch because of these fucking ridiculous gas prices. Bring them back down to around the $1.80 - $2.30 mark and everything should be better.

[Beetwasher]

65. INVEST IN A NEW NEW DEAL

We need to get out of Iraq and use that money to invest in our energy infrastructure and technology development so we can be oil-free.

This is the way out. A New New Deal or think of it like Kennedy's "Moon Challenge", or a combination of both, except w/ oil independence as our goal. Invest in the technology to perfect renewable/carbon emission-free energy, then completely rebuild our infrastructure to these renewable and carbon emission free energy sources.

The jobs this would create would take us out of our economic hole AND we would be helping to save the planet to boot. This is really the only sane approach to the future.

[kickysnana]

67. You want to save this blood sucking monster?

When it is down, drive a stake in it and rebuild it into of the people, by the people and for the people.

The economy should benefit the many, not the few. There should be opportunities to make money without killing or robbing others.

[Senator]

74. Only Impeachment (yes, really)

Bushcheneyism is the root cause here. It stole core confidence and trashed normalcy in a paranoid rage.

Americans no longer take things in stride. A stride that calmed the world. Impeachment is the only short-term way to put The American People back in the loop -- back on their stride.

Impeachophobia is a disease of the Aristocracy.

"Gone in less than a year" is not NOW. In fact, it is still outright denial of the problem. An addiction to business as usual. Business as usual will continue to be very bad unless and until we go back to the way we used to do business -- with normal confidence in our core values.

Impeachment is our ONLY moral, patriotic, and yes, economic option.

---

[yurbud]

75. raise wages, control prices on health insurance until reform is in place

[L. Coyote]

76. End Bush's illegal wars. We need to STOP the

fundamentalist nut jobs from fighting each other over their stupid belief systems,
and restore some modicum of rationality to human culture.

What will restore our strength, for starters, is getting rid of all the excess military expenses.

Next step is an economic overhaul, investing the savings from military cut-backs into wind power and other alternatives. Liberation from oil imports is the highest priority, and will alleviate strain on global economics too, a secondary benefit.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

77. Stop the war, which is costing $250 million a day, that's $1 billion every 4 days

Unless we end the war, all else will be futile.

Put the troops (and anyone else who wants to join the effort) to work rebuilding the Gulf Coast. Put all the unemployed and under-employed blue collar workers to work building affordable housing, mass transit, and intercity rail.

[MadHound]

83. Get the fuck out of Iraq, re-establish our manufacturing base,

Eliminate those tax cuts for the rich and well off, going back to Reagan's capital gains tax cuts, re-establish all those regulations that were scrapped by Bush, Clinton, Bush and Reagan, get our economy off of fossil fuels(hey, here's the base for a new manufacturing industry). Oh, and get out of Iraq.

That would do for a start.

[otherlander]

84. Form communes?

Pool resources?
Grow yr own vegetables?
Buy American-made?

Don't ask me.

[IDemo]

90. Best answer yet

[otherlander]

172. The part about not asking me?

Yeah, that would probably be a good idea.

[citizen snips]

109. Communes have always fallen apart.

[kineneb]

182. so have empires... jus' sayin'...

back to the 60s motto, a la Timothy Leary...

turn on
tune in
drop out

...the other way (what we have now) doesn't seem to work so well either...

[Karenina]

85. Ideas are fine but good ones must be implemented.

The American people are no longer in a position to implement jack.

[Joe Chi Minh]

87. How about....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Maynard_Keynes ?

[Greyhound]

88. Dissolve the Federal Reserve, withdraw from the IMF, close all of the military bases

not on US soil, withdraw from NAFTA, repeal all tax exemptions, re-write our immigration policies from the ground up, specifically exclude the concept that non-biological entities can have any rights...

In short, undo the last 140 years of ruling class shenanigans that have stolen our power from us.

[Mike03]

97. If we get rid of the Federal Reserve, we'll see investment banks and

banks collapse all over the country. The Fed is the lender and buyer of last resort. They have all ready kept us from seeing a Bank Holiday or, at the very least, a run on the banks.

[Greyhound]

118. The whole central banking system is a blatant Ponzi scheme and it's collapse

is inevitable. Covering deposits and re-establishing the Constitutionally mandated economic system we had is the cure.

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild

[Thothmes]

144. Which section and article of the Constitution is

the national economic system mandated. Could not find it in my copy of the Constitution.

[Greyhound]

145. Section 8. n/t

[Thothmes]

149. Which edition of the Constitution do you have

Mine goes to section VII, then to the 27 Amendments to the Consitution.

[Greyhound]

161. Sorry, I thought that would be enough, here's a link to an online version.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8

Article 1
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

[Thothmes]

175. That is a broad interpretation of "mandating an economic system"

The Council of Ministers of the USSR had exactly the authority in the Soviet Union. Yet the U.S. System is markedly different than the Soviet.

[Greyhound]

180. That is completely beside the point, as is quibbling over the wording of

the reply.

The point is that the Congress was the only authority given that power and it consistently abrogated that duty, finally culminating that abrogation in giving control of our national economy away to an organization that works, not in the interests of the citizens of the nation, but rather for interests of the world banking community.

But then, you already knew that...

[defendandprotect]

111. ALL of that and STOP the FED from printing money ---

Only the Treasury should print money --- we're paying interest on the $ that the FED prints --- !!!

And CONGRESS --- not the FED --- should be deciding on economic policy, which is a political decision --- let them put their re-election on how they make those decisions.

[Greyhound]

120. Exactly. There is a very long list of things, in addition to those I listed, that needs to happen.

The problem is that the few that benefit from the current system of "legalized" theft are the people in charge of it.

[defendandprotect]

141. The owners of the country are way ahead of us in pre-planning . . .

but natural things do happen -- and they are out of step with nature ---

[bean fidhleir]

94. Pull the plug on Capitalism. It has *no* unique virtues, but one gigantic, unique fault

The fault being that it's a positive-feedback system. Which, as any engineer knows, guarantees repeated, extreme, out-of-control behavior.

Get rid of Capitalism, make basic necessities (food, shelter, edu, healthcare) Constitutionally-protected civil rights.

[defendandprotect]

112. Capitalism is a ridiculous "KIng-of-the-Hill-System" ..... it's over . . . or it will kill us ----

[DeadEyeDyck]

177. up the minimum wage to $50/hr. N/T

[Mike03]

96. Eventually, We have to Pay Up

The problem is that we are the largest debtor nation on the planet right now.

Eventually, we have to suffer. We borrowed from the future. I suppose that we could continue to reflate by moving the "bubble" around from sector to sector, inflating it even larger than it is. But at this point, I doubt that even this could succeed because our creditors (i.e., the rest of the world) knows what we've been up to and they are tired of investing in decrementally valueless equities, bonds, treasuries and U.S. dollars. The bill has come due. Artificial gymnastics by the Fed might prolong the inevitable, but the longer we draw this out, the harder our crash landing will be.

[defendandprotect]

114. Bankrupting the Treasury is TREASON . . . impeach Bush ---

[citizen snips]

107. lower the national debt

by lowering spending on all programs. End all corporate subsidy's.

[defendandprotect]

110. NATIONALIZE THE OIL INDUSTRY . . . anyone miss the fact of what this possibly 100 year war is about?

Control of the ME -- and its OIL --

[YvonneCa]

113. Elect an intelligent President...

...with integrity, who shares our values, understands the Constitution, and is willing and able to lead. The sooner, the better.

[defendandprotect]

115. Leave IRAQ and Afghanistan immediately . ..

[defendandprotect]

116. Move our currency from dollars to EUROS . . . !!!

THAT would seem obvious --- !!!

[Ghost Dog]

123. You wouldn't be allowed in - too much debt, for one thing.

Your other ideas are fine, although not all 'capitalism' is so pernicious: just the out-of-control unregulated big-business and monopolistic type. Nationalize, regulate and break them up.

Edit: If it must be big to make any economic and/or social sense, then nationalize it. But you need to clean up government and the legal system, too. Outlaw lobbying and all paid-for politicians and politics.

[defendandprotect]

135. Americans can move what they have to EUROS . . . why not?

Yes, it is predatory capitalism . . . when it is not regulated ---

so why have a system like this?

It is also capitalism which has permitted this run on our Treasury ---

along with the FED as their tool ---

Gore was supposedly going to make major revisions to campaign funding . . .

On the other hand, documents have turned up where it looks like the CIA was working thru Howard Huges firm -- part of it being a front company for the CIA --- to FUND the campaigns of of members
the CIA wanted supported --- two of them were: Strom Thurmond - the other Gerald Ford.

Same thing with Nixon being FUNDED by Prescott Bush --- and Nixon demanded a slush fund plus his
Congressional salary. We might try to find out how all this money is keep covered up?

Cash -- Swiss bank accounts --- ???

Meanwhile, we've also had stolen elections since the mid-1960's when the computers came in ---
NOT simply since 2000, though that was the noisiest of them . . .
See: http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

Jim & Ken Collier were journalists who were looking for a story in the mid-1960's about elections so they decided that one of them would run for office in their state of Florida.
As they watched their figures rise and then -- after a computer breakdown -- fall down --
they began an investigation which resulted in evidence that computers were being used to steal elections. They signed a book deal with a prominent publisher --- but as soon as their book
hit the bookstores it was suppressed.

Their family keeps this website going in order to inform the public--
You can read or scan their book at the website --
there is, of course, no charge.
This is a family trying to get the messsage out --- that's all.

[superkia]

117. Sad thing is, without a revolution, the wealthy, powerful, elite...

will continue in their ways and continue with their agenda. No matter what ideas WE have, if there is no one to represent those ideas in our government, how can we change it. The system was hijacked and paid for long ago, without major change in our system...we lose.

The only thing I think we can do immediately to stop the corrupt, is stop wasting money on the extras and try to live with the basics. As long as you have family and friends, what more do you need than the basics. Hit the corporations pockets and I am sure they will get the government to change something to help us.

[datasuspect]

131. the majority of people will die to defend the rights of the corporations

and will die to ensure greater and greater authoritarianism.

the change this culture requires necessitates the many becoming organized and working with each other outside of the corporate system.

this will never happen.

the long ago perfected techniques of marketing ensure a compliant, obedient workforce. american idol constitutes breaking news on national radio networks. our level of distraction and lack of critical thinking abilities make certain that we, as a people, will become perfect only as consumers and will understand reality only as it coincides with consumer choices and entertainment diversions.

[Chovexani]

119. Put all our money in weed.

:smoke:

[Ghost Dog]

121. And legalize marijuana production and consumption (seriously)

as well as common hemp (keep them well separated);

and slap very high taxes on alcoholic beverages.

:-)

[pathansen]

122. Tax Super Rich - This seemed to help during Clinton Adm.

We had lots of peace and prosperity for about 8 years.
Also limit the amount of money CEOs can make.

[Lorien]

125. I've posted this before with only one or two responses:

Get the hell out of Iraq ASAP. Spend the Billions earmarked for that disaster on a new National high speed MagLev rail system with light rail connectors. Develop the areas around major train depots using the new urbanism designs that place mixed income homes and apartments within walking distance of retail, restaurants, office space, hospitals, schools, and theaters. These measures would create tens of thousands of new jobs and make Americans more mobile, less dependent on foreign oil and our roads would be less congested. To really cut our energy use, I'd build 100 square miles worth of solar panels (a recent article stated that that's how many would be needed to power the entire US), with the eventual goal of making home energy free or nearly free for the poor, disabled,schools,hospitals, government buildings etc. Added benefit; cutting greenhouse gases and allowing those people or institutions to direct the savings elsewhere (like hiring more teachers or staff) .We could do both and STILL spend less than we have on the Iraq war.

Right now a billionaire only pays about 17% income tax while a person making $50,000 a year pays about 28% income tax. Reverse that. Close tax loopholes for the uber rich. End corporate personhood and make big corporations pay their fair share in taxes. If it has to come out of a CEO’s bonus package, then so be it! No more subsidies for corporations who outsource jobs overseas.

Give tax credits and incentives to people who build and buy cars like this: www.aptera.com. Adopt Al Gore’s carbon emission tax idea. Make America a place of new ideas and innovative technology and manufacturing again. Create a National prize (cheaper than a no bid contract to Halliburtan) for energy and health innovations that would be given out every year to the individuals or corporations who develop the most beneficial new technologies. So many amazing developments are never used because profit margin is put before common sense and the welfare of society. Reclaiming our place as world pioneers in these areas could create a massive employment boom.

[bean fidhleir]

153. I like your National Prize idea

Your other suggestions seem quite mild by comparison.

[Lorien]

155. They would be seen as far from mild by the ruling elite

anything that disrupts the status quo; keeping them wealthy by keeping us hooked on their fossil fuels and cheap Chinese made crap-is seen as a threat. I doubt that any politician aside from Kucinich would even entertain any of the ideas on this thread. Can't upset the balance of power, you know.

[defendandprotect]

127. Anyone collecting the ideas here and putting it up as a poll?

[gravity]

129. The US economy is sick, but it isn't dead

We don't need radical measures to solve the problem, just proper leadership and some better policies will get our economy back in balance.

We probable need to raise the taxes for the people on the top, but not too much more than needed so that we can still encourage investment. A tax rates during the 90s seems reasonable.

Regulating the derivatives markets is also another good measure which could prevent financial failures like what we have now.

Increasing investment in education is another good thing, especially in science and technology. We have to make sure that if Americans have the will and ability to go and get more education, that they can reasonably do so without significant financial strain. This way, the American workers can be more productive and will be competitive in this global environment.

Having universal health care and better safety nets is another good thing to help lower labor and health costs.

More secure safety nets is another good thing, like better unemployment benefits. The truth is in this competitive environment, there needs to be flexibility within the workforce. The bad news is that this means layoffs will occur to address the changing economic times. If we use more alternative energy, oil workers would have to be laid off for example. We should make sure that our government has good policies to ensure that people who get laid off can easily transition to new jobs and have the opportunities to learn new skills so that they can move with the times.

Better welfare policies, that ensure that people get the money to have a decent standard of living, but still encourage them to work if they are able to. Maybe government daycare on top of that. Our economy is based on consumer spending so making sure that all have a decent living is for the good of all.

Energy prices are probably going to remain rather high, so I would propose better efficiency standards too.


This is some of the policies that I can think of on the top of my had. We just need the right leadership and pragmatic solutions to fix our economy. Americans are the most resilient people in the world and we will be able to get over this crisis like all the others. I am confident that our problems will be solved with the right leadership.

[Greyhound]

132. Let me guess, you work in the financial industry.

Am I wrong?

[gravity]

139. guilty

[Greyhound]

146. Thank you, I appreciate your forthrightness. n/t

:kick:

[and-justice-for-all]

133. Impeachment. nt

[NashVegas]

134. Everyone Accepts Reduced Investment Income in Favor of Debt Payment, CEOs Go Back to Making 400k

I just wrote 6 paragraphs and deleted it all, because at the bottom line, the way out is for everyone to tighten their belt and get real.

I don't expect that to happen just yet, there's too much greed right now and too many people who think what they want is *just* within their grasp. They aren't going to fold right now, not while they think they can profit.

[Blue_In_AK]

137. I definitely agree with you on the CEO pay.

I've always thought that there is no reason in the world for ANYBODY to make more than half a million a year, I don't care who you are. If you can't live on $42,000 a month, you need to scale back your tastes somewhat, and, of course, that is just a fraction of what some of these assholes make. It's just not necessary, and along with W's interminable war, is the major part of what's wrong with our economy. We ordinary people have to learn how to budget and live within our means -- let the fat cats do so, as well.

[AP]

136. Public works projects to rebuild infrastructure. Start making and building shit.

Get money into the pockets of working people. Take it from the financiers and money changers if you have to with progressive taxation if you can't find the money anywhere else.

Educate people (no matter how poor their parents are).

Have a real commitment to equality of outcome, and not just equality of opportunity.

[sarcasmo]

140. In a word, Nothing. The downward spiral has begun and it is rolling to fast to be stopped.

[defendandprotect]

142. This time . . . let's not bail out capitalism nor capitalists. . . which means, STOP the FED ---

[defendandprotect]

143. The Congress has to assume responsibility for these political decisions by the FED ---

It is the Congress which should be making these decisions ---

[OneBlueSky]

148. a three-part plan . . .

1. End U.S. involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan immediately, bring the troops home ASAP and save about $20 billion/month.

2. Cut the "defense" budget by about 50% and re-allocate some of the savings to . . .

3. Initiate a "Manhattan Project" around researching and implementing alternative energy and energy conservation to a) rebuild our manufacturing base, and b) end our reliance on fossil fuels.

hey, it's a start . . .

[kenny blankenship]

150. Maybe if we threw it down a well, or abducted it in Aruba, it would FINALLY GET ON THE F%#@ing NEWS

and then we could all pull together and save it.

[HughBeaumont]

151. Tax the rich, end the war, stop bailing out the corporate whores!

[LeftHander]

152. Simple - Get back control of our essential economy

We have to return the basics of our economy back to local and regional control.

i.e.

production of our most essential needs, food and clothing.

To do so take these steps:


Stop the War,
Tax the rich,
Close corporate tax loopholes
Set international trade tariffs on commodities and export of raw materials.
Subsidize transportation costs for local producers of commodities that are distributed and sold less than 500 miles where they are produced.

We have to make up the labor gap of locally produced goods. It is crazy when a product produced with ingredients from China shipped from California and Mexico cost LESS than the same organically produced item. The ONLY difference is LABOR costs. To make locally produced goods competitive subsidize transportation and the results is wages remain high but the product become competitively priced on the shelves. Given the choice consumers will take organic locally produced when it is the same or lower cost.

ADM would have a cow if that happened. (However they would still reap massive profit eventually.)


The major problems that we need to stop right now are:

1. Stop spending all our money on war and death machinery.
2. Stop giving away what is left to the already rich.
3. Stop sending raw materials overseas to be converted to products that are shipped back and sold on the cheap.
4. Stop using all our local commodity production to produce "ingredients" like ethanol and high fructose corn syrup. Start producing food for local consumption and crops for local textiles...Hemp and cotton.
5. Spur the growth of your local basic economy.

[NewJeffCT]

158. Massive investment in infrastructure, plus

getting out of Iraq, plus rolling back the Bush & Reagan tax cuts, and raising interest rates to stabilize the dollar.

Unfortunately, this will likely mean some high inflation at first and a recession - but, better to take our medicine now than to need even more in a few years. At least with investing in our infrastructure, we'll be putting people to work.

for the longer-term:
1) implement a single-payer national health care plan
2) implement strict financial controls on any sort of public corporation. - or, enforce the laws on the books.
3) cut military spending by 10% over the next five years. (I'd like to cut it more, but I'm trying to be realistic)
4) use part of the infrastructure investment to invest in things like green/renewable energy, high speed rail in population centers with regional planning (do you know how fucking hard it is to get from SW Connecticut to northern New Jersey?)

[EnviroBat]

159. End NAFTA.

[Warren DeMontague]

162. Out of Iraq. Cut the Military budget by 70%. End the drug war. Legalize & TAX Marijuana. SPHC system

For starters.

[Ganja Ninja]

163. Jail the current cabal and disband the GOP.

Pull out of Iraq.
Start creating incentives for people to move to more fuel efficient forms of transportation.
Create disincentives for people who refuse to conserve fuel.
Mandate a 35 hour 4 day work week.
Restore American manufacturing.
Get rid of right wing media as much as is possible and replace it with real news and informed opinion.
Develop a modern interstate rail system with a government funded effort similar to our interstate highway system.
Re-regulate the banks and lending institutions.
Outlaw variable rate mortgages.
Subsidize private and commercial Wind and Solar electrical power gerneration.
Mandate solar hot water heaters.

[Geek_Girl]

164. Well now that the dollar is worth shit

I hope private companies (non publicly traded) start popping and actually start manufacturing goods in the US.

Then maybe our senators and congress men can get their heads out of their ass and push for real Universal Health Care and take the burden off of privately owned companies.

There may be a silver lining in all this turmoil. My hope it's the comeupkins of corporate America.

[Rex]

165. Regulate the market.

Three words that would fix it all.

[notadmblnd]

167. a moritorium on forclosures and an across the board interest rate cut for consumers.

[guitar man]

170. raise wages and salaries

...tarriff the hell out of imports,and cap prices on essential goods and services. The billionaire class has had a field day for the last 7 years, they will get over it. It's time to stop the bleeding that the working middle class is suffering from before it's to late. Enough is enough.

Enacting living wage legislation while capping prices on food, fuel and energy is a start. Give the American working class some incentive and a little breathing room and they will revitalize the economy in short order.

[yellerpup]

171. Let people deduct the interest they pay on their home.

If you have more than one home, then you can't deduct the cost of the loans on your second, third, etc. mortgages.

[slackmaster]

174. Invading Canada doesn't seem like such a crazy idea at the moment

Fifty-Four Forty or Fight!

[DeadEyeDyck]

176. Elect Ralph Nader N/T

[Zorra]

178. Nationalize all natural resources, start a massive WPA type alternative energy

project and later sell electricity to other nations, invest heavily in sustainable resource agriculture and the production and exportation of food and then become real good pals with Hugo Chavez, strictly regulate all corporations, tax the super-rich into submission, end most aid to other nations, put a moratorium on all immigration, end the war in Iraq, bring our military home from bases worldwide, stop paying any government debts to international banks, and parade the neocons around the world, carnival style, charge admission, and let people pelt them with rotten eggs and tomatoes.

[librechik]

183. Study what FDR did (that worked) and repeat--why struggle for "new" programs?

Bank holiday (and audit)followed by tight regulation of mortgages, funds and "financial products"
especially those which are the mainstay of pensions.

FDIC turned into a real safeguard again.

SEC given teeth.

Jobs and Public Works programs.

Local municipalities given help to jumpstart their own versions.

Daycare, Housing assistance, Food aid, and health care turned into real helps for families which need it.

Keep it simple by expanding existing programs to help more citizens rather than try to start new programs.

Get corporate entities out of our elections.

Public financing only.

Put cap on incomes of businesses which can apply for "small" business loans KEEP IT SMALL instead of letting so many wealthy and connected cheaters in.