Seen this rightwingnut email??

[Bigmack]

Couldn't find the debunk at Snopes, and of course, the email doesn't quote sources.
Any ideas?

( Our Government @ work)

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
>
>Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
>
>Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
>
>Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
>
>Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
>
>Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
>
>Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250
>
>If you want to know just how effective the mainstream media is, it is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If any democrat is elected, ALL of them say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.

[BeatleBoot]

1. I saw this one from Texas Republicans...

http://republicansforobama.org/?q=node/359


E-mail to send to Texas Republicans


Attention All Texas Republicans and Independents!!

On March 4th, Texas Republicans and Independents will have an opportunity to end Hillary Clinton's (and Bill's) presidential ambitions once and for all!

Since Texas has on open primary, Republicans and Independents should sign in at their polling place and request a Democratic ballot. They should then vote for Barack Obama. Even James Carville admits that if Hillary loses Texas, "she's done!" Republicans can help make this a reality!!! Just think, no more Clintons in the White House!

Voting Democratic this one time will have NO effect on your ability to vote in the next Republican primary or obviously on your vote in November. Since John McCain has the Republican nomination locked up, voting for McCain or Huckabee at this point will have no effect on the outcome on the Republican side.

After you vote during early voting or on March 4th, you ARE NOT done! Report back to your regular polling place at 7PM on March 4th to sign the Barack Obama list for caucus delegates. In a little known Texas voting quirk, 67 delegates to the Democratic convention will be seated because of these caucuses. This is a full one-third of the total number of Texas delegates. For Hillary to lose, she has to lose the primary votes AND the caucus votes.

I urge you to vote against Hillary Clinton by voting for Barack Obama. Please forward this e-mail to all your Texas Republican and Independent friends so that we can help ensure the Clinton's defeat on March 4th!!!

[ZombieHorde]

3. That's fucked up. nt

[BeatleBoot]

7. But true and here's more ....

And that's what they are doing.

Here's an article from the Washington Post today (Sunday, Feb 24th)

"In winning Tuesday's primary in the key swing state of Wisconsin, Sen. Barack Obama drew support from tens of thousands of Republicans and independents."

-- The Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/23/AR2008022302180.html?nav%3Dhcmodule&sub=AR

[Richardo]

2. All I can say if that if you're making $75K and you're paying $21K in taxes...

...you have the worst tax preparer ever.

[NewJeffCT]

19. 21K per year on 75K of income is 28% in taxes - which is correct

unless you are self-employed, you are paying income taxes with every paycheck. What you do when you file your income taxes each year is to basically "settle up" any differences between what you pay out weekly or bi-weekly in each pay check.

[sinkingfeeling]

21. Still doesn't match the 2007 IRS tax table information....

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf


Income from $75,000 - 75,050
Single - $15,180
Married/ filing jointly - $11,604
Married/ filing sepatate - $15,503
Head of Household - $13,931


http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/i1040--1999.pdf

Income fro $75,000- 75,050
Single - $18,037
Married/filing jointly - $15,411
Married/filing separate - $18,899
Head of Household - $16,516

Edited to add 1999 numbers

[drmeow]

23. However the 28% is not on all your income

The point of a progressive tax structure is that you pay a higher rate on money earned over a certain amount. You don't pay 28% on all $75K. You may pay 28% on the last $10 or $20K of that $75. I don't know what the actual cutoffs and percents are but to illustrate with inaccurate but real numbers you might pay 5% on the 1st $10K, 10% on $11K - 25K, 15% on $26K - ?? and so on.

One of the deceptions of the anti progressive tax propaganda is to imply that you are paying the highest percent rate on all your income.

[muntrv]

4. This doesn't factor in deductions. Also, under Clinton, we had surpluses

while under Shrub, we're running up deficits. Draw your own conclusions.

[hay rick]

5. debunked in my journal n/t

[DaveJ]

9. Nice work -- They sure know how to spin lies

I think they're getting even better at lies and deception. We're going to have to be careful until November.

In addition to your great analysis, I think that, intuitively, it is cheating to compare 1999 income to 2008 income. Consider inflation in general, and the rising costs of fuel, which I don't know is even counted in inflation. A 60K salary, for instance, probably would be equivalent to a 100K salary today, and thus may have been taxed slightly more for that reason.

And, of course, as you say, Dems want to raise taxes on $200-250K plus incomes, not on the middle class.

[Bigmack]

15. Thank you so much...

I cribbed your stuff and blasted back. Not that it will do any good.

[OmahaBlueDog]

6. Dear RW Wackjobs -- And now we have bigass deficits...

... and soon, foreign nations will use the dollar in lieu of toilet paper --- all thanks to your boy GeeDub... so the point of your stupid ass e-mail would be???

[JohnnyLib2]

8. I got it from the usual sources (basically RW relatives in Ohio)

But what they say about both Obama and Clinton is also being said on DU. Creeps me out

[dysfunctional press]

10. where's the surplus/defecit comparison...?

shouldn't that be part of the equation?

[hay rick]

13. here it is

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=114x34392

[drmeow]

11. I can't debate all the numbers

But I can say definitively that a single person grossing about $30 K in 1999 under Clinton paid less than $3872 in taxes (assuming nothing but the standard deduction) 'cause I made under $33K that year and that's what I paid. Yes, I still have my tax forms from 1999, and from 98 and 97 all the way back to 83 - the first year I filed. In 97 I sat down and calculated the % of my income I had paid in taxes from 83 to 96 and found that I paid the lowest percent (even though I was earning more) under Clinton. Even in 97 when my income doubled from the year before and was $3K/year more than my highest pay under Raygun, I still paid less under Clinton. In 2000 (Clinton) my gross income was double what I made in 86 (Raygun) yet my tax rate was exactly the same (about 12.5%) both years.

Republicans can only get support by lying because no majority would ever vote for them if they told the truth

[sutz12]

12. I usually ask, "How much did you get in the Bush tax cuts?"

Usually I get crickets, or a :shrug:.

Doesn't matter, of course, the Bush tax cuts are just working. :sarcasm:

[JDPriestly]

14. Bush borrowed the money to fund the so-called tax cuts.

The "tax cuts" are not cuts in the amounts we have to pay, they are just deferred payment schemes.

[hay rick]

16. debunk link

Here's the link to the post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=114x34392

This should be handier than wading through my journal.

Amazing how they aren't satisfied with merely misleading information. Hello misinformation and lies.

[B Calm]

17. Thanks, I book marked that thread. Its just a matter of time for my RW

friends send that e-mail to me, now I'm prepared!

[KharmaTrain]

18. Get The Lies Out Early...

One great equalizer we now have we hadn't in past elections is our numbers and credibility. In the past, these GOOP lies would circulate with little refuting and soon become "conventional wisdom". Now we have a chance not only to see these smears developing, but overwhelm them with both the facts and then turning it on those who make the claims...either shit or get off the pot.

For those in the GOOP coven who want to believe, these emails are eye candy. The more they put out lies, the more they expose themselves to showing their true racist, sexist, arrogant and ignorant selves. It's a game they still think they can get away with...but they've gone to the well one too many times.

Fortunately, we have 7 years of GOOP rule to not just refute any lies or distortions, but to turn them around. The good thing of getting these lies out early is by November they'll be old and tired...and then what will they have to fling?

[DainBramaged]

20. This is like a Ron Paul/McCain Presidential poll, everyone thinks it's legit

but it's pure Freeper bullshit disguised as a pig.

[sinkingfeeling]

22. My question is a big, "So, what?" Why are so many people hung up on paying for what they get?

With Bush's costly, illegal occupation of 2 countries, there should be massive tax increases to pay for it. These GOP fools just 'charge' the debt to future generations. Bush has single-handedly doubled the national debt. Someone's children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren will have to pay for it. Why does your RW friend hate their kids?