I say this time its gloves off.

[Smith_3]

I know, as a progressive, one has this reflex to play a fair game, an instinct to "not to sink as low as them". One feels bound to things such as honesty and giving the opponent credit for the good traits that he might have.

I say screw all that in the upcoming election. After what the GOP pulled in 2004, I say we smear the shit out of them with the dirties most disgraceful things we can come up with.

edit: Hell, they've been crying about being the victims of "liberal smear" all along. Lets really give them something to whine about.

[ixion]

1. then we are no better than the neocons

sorry, I'm against smearing for it's own sake. Rational reporting of their actions is all that should be necessary.

[Virginia Dare]

2. In a perfect world, yes..

but for all the bitching about going negative, studies show it works, so that guarantees that it will be done again.

If the right wing smear machine goes into full swing, and I see no evidence that it won't, I think we need to hit back with full force.

Taking the high road hurt Kerry, I'm not willing to sit back and let that happen again.

[ixion]

8. what hurt Kerry was waiting 3 weeks to respond

I'm not talking about not fighting back. I'm talking about not fabricating stories simply to smear.

I'm not against shoving someone's crappy record in the public's face (although the MSM appears to disdain this when it's a rethug), I'm talking about using the truth rather than fantasy.

[Virginia Dare]

10. I don't read that the OP suggested fabricating stories..

just stating that the gloves are off, match them smear for smear, and I agree with that. Nothing is off limits, if that's the way they want to play it.

[ixion]

12. I'm not against gloves off, but fight with the truth rather than lies

the GOP lies constantly, which is a large part of what makes them so craven. If the dems lie in their smears, they become craven as well.

[Virginia Dare]

14. Agreed, and I also agree that lies won't even be necessary...n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. Putting sunlight on McCain will look like a bareknuckle fight.

With a smile on ones face, of course. :)

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. In the week of the Republican convention

Congress ought to introduce a bill punishing discrimination on the basis of PTSD.

During the hearings, we'll hear "People who have suffered from wartime trauma (like McCain) have indeed gone nuts and shot up things, but that if monitored and given appropriate guidance and medications, they can quite often be fully integrated into civilian life. Not every victim of PTSD is a crazy fuck with a hair trigger and a payback fixation. Isn't that right, Senator McCain?"

[madokie]

4. no doubt the truth does hurt pretty much any of the republic's

can't run on their records cause their record is what they are always running from. It must be a bio'ch being a lying S.O.B. congresscritter. huh

[Smith_3]

5. Sorry, but I believe the Republicans are far past deserving one good hair being left on them. nt

[derby378]

6. Sunlight is sometimes the best disinfectant

This is fascism we're struggling to keep in check. Its disciples tried this in the 1930s and failed. They tried again in 2000 after some 20 years of planning, and this time they've had some success. I say we burn 'em down.

[endarkenment]

11. In the list of neocon crimes dirty politics is way down at the bottom.

And it is not 'smearing for its own sake' it is playing dirty against known cheaters in order to win.

[ixion]

13. if the dems play dirty (e.g cheat) then they join the cheaters

and are no better. Simple as that.

[Virginia Dare]

15. Playing dirty is not the same as cheating IMO...

I don't know what you mean by "cheat", but I don't think we should be afraid to roll around in the mud with them if that's the game they want.

I'll give you an example that's been brought up in the last day or so.

Somebody brought up Cindy McCain's past drug problems, and lots of people chimed in and said that should be off limits and we shouldn't stoop so low as to bring it up. However, my view is, if Obama gets the nomination, and allegations and innuendos start coming out about his past drug use, then Mrs. McCain's past is fair game. If Hillary Clinton gets the nomination, and they want to drag out all of her husband's past transgressions, then John McCain's dalliance with Cindy Hensley while still married to his first wife is fair fodder. We can't try to "rise above" this crap. It needs to be matched tit for tat.

[endarkenment]

16. So we should simply be on the perpetual defense then.

As what is going to happen is that there will be a continuous stream of turds flying from the Republican side. One turd after another. They do not even pause between attacks. While we are busy explaining why attack A is total bullshit, they have moved on to attack B. The effect, coupled with the stenographic echo chamber from the bullshit media system, is to keep our side completely off balanced. If we do not fire back then the Obama campaign will be consumed with defending itself against every new accusation.

How many times do we have to get kicked in the balls before we accept the fact that the rules have changed?

[ixion]

19. I'm not saying don't go on the offensive

I'm just saying let's try and keep our ethics while doing so. There's plenty of factual evidence the dems can use to show how rethugs have screwed up the country. We don't need to go after petty personal issues (like drug use) in order to make our point, IMO.

[treestar]

24. But we should go after the hypocrisy

We know they would do it to a Democratic candidate, yet they still have a mote in their eye half the time. They don't deserve to be treated better than they treat others.

[ixion]

25. absolutely

although the MSM is usually disdainful of dems pointing out rethug hypocrisy.

[Smith_3]

20. What I am saying is, heavy negative campaigning on a deep personal level.

McCain or whoever is running needs to be portraied as a liar, a cheater, a warmonger and a total idiot. We need to smear his marriage, his military background, his "liberal" votes on "conservative" issues and that his children are ugly.

We need to say he is a baby killer for being lenient on abortion and a friggin traitor for letting the Mexicans in.

Anything that "they" would say about one of ours has to be said about theirs.

[lumberjack_jeff]

21. Tactically, I can live with that. n/t

[LibDemAlways]

7. After 2000 and 2004, you'd think the Dems would know

how the game is played. There are no rules and the person willing to play dirtiest is the "winner." That's just a fact.

It doesn't matter who the Dem nominee is. He or she will be smeared beyond recognition. If the Dems sit back and let it happen without launching a firece counterattack, they will be handing McCain the keys to the WH.

[Orsino]

9. I'm voting so I *don't* have to become one of them. n/t

[DavidDvorkin]

17. "I never give them hell."

"I just tell the truth, and they think it's hell."

[rurallib]

18. Exactly what I was thinking

Why sink to their level, just tell the truth!

[Virginia Dare]

29. Kerry tried that, it was a nice concept..

but he got totally fucked over for it.

[RainDog]

22. McCain is a continuation of the last 8 years.

Why does he try to run against his own party? Show that picture of McCain hugging Bush and ask why Mc is trying to run against this man? Talk about the last 8 years... cause a vote for Mc is a vote for the last 8 years.

Dems also need to address the issue of "the surge." Mc says it worked. Quite a few soldiers would disagree. Show the picture of the guy on the box with electrodes attached to his fingers. Do we want four more years of this? The people who did this endorse McCain.

To me, these things are not playing dirty, they're just stating the g.d. facts. Tell the truth about the last eight years... how a repuke congress tried to HIDE from their fellow congress-folk -- why do republicans care so little about our constitution?

Bring up JFK's speech about wanting to provide retirement income for the elderly. Play it. With the part about those who were against it. The SAME people who are now in control of the Republican party.

just a few suggestions.

[Rageneau]

26. He brings a knife, you bring a gun. He puts one of yours in the hospital...

I agree with the bellicose OP. I'm as axious to go to war as a Republican with defense industry stocks.

I'd love to be a Buddhist about politics, or even a Christian, but I know too well how Republicans fight, and it is always, always, ALWAYS as dirty as they can go. Our enemy is using flame throwers and won't stop no matter how nice we ask them to.

So we better use flames throwers, too -- bigger ones -- or get burnt to a crisp.

[Smith_3]

30. Remember these nice lines:

"Liberals have a preternatural gift for always striking a position on the side of treason." - Ann Coulter

"Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history." - Pat Robertson

"I want to look you in the eye and tell you I will never ever surrender; they will." - John McCain

And COUNTLESS others!

I've had it with this shit. I say we start calling McCain a god damn communist and a traitor. I say we start insulting his wife and kids. They obviously have no dignity what so ever in this regard.

[UTUSN]

27. K&R #3 for, only the WINNER leaves an insitutionalized legacy (laws & judges & programs)!1 HearHear

[renegade000]

28. unabashedly telling the truth about them should be good enough n/t