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Was Reagan a malicious guy, or just very dim, naive, and easily handled?

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synesthesia Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 09:59 AM
Original message
Was Reagan a malicious guy, or just very dim, naive, and easily handled?
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 10:18 AM by synesthesia
I'm reading his biography on wikipedia right now, and it's hard to tell.

Wikipedia tends to be edited by leftists, so I trust they wouldn't put up with TOO MUCH revionist history.

Based on his pre-political life, I get the sense he was just kind of an small town rube who had a simplistic idea that 'communism was bad' from his SAG days, and extended this thinking into a loose political affiliation he wasn't even too aware of. Then he was just used as a prop by his handlers once in office. I try to judge people by what they do before they're in politics, since it's not as much theatre.

Is there any evidence this narrative is a sham, and he was truly a nefarious individual who realizes the suffering he created?

Please, no simplistic answers and catch phrases; I'm looking for concrete data about the man.

I know they paint George Bush as a well meaning country boy too, but there's specific incidents one can point to that show he's kind of a sociopath. For example, torturing animals as a youth and laughing/enjoying executing people as governor (then mocking their death).

I'm in my early 20s, so I don't actually remember the times.

edit: I just read he called Nancy, "Mommy": my psychoanalysis instincts are making me evaluate the pathology of such a pattern, hrmm....

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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's a good bet that in his second term, the Alzheimer's was affecting him, to some extent.
Howard Baker, his Chief of Staff, had considered invoking the 25th regarding presidential disabilities because Reagan sometimes appeared dazed and confused.

He didn't invoke the 25th nor did anyone get medical help for Reagan.
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Hersheygirl Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Why would they get him help
They had him exactly were they wanted him. It should be evident by now that when a republican sits in the Oval Office, you can be sure that someone else is pulling the strings. Good reason for them not to like McCain.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. Reagan was an actor, playing a role he was given.
But that doesn't mean he bears any less responsibility for his crimes than his writers, directors & producers - they're all guilty.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
3. Malicious. Check what he did with mental hospitals in California.
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 10:13 AM by WinkyDink
Not to mention Iran-Contra.
The treasonous deal with the Iranian hostage situation prior to Inauguration day.
The lying in the U.N. by Kirkpatrick about KAL-007.
The Invasion of Grenada.
The unconscionable visit to Bitburg's S.S. cemetery, after being asked not to go and then declaring, "WWII Veterans were all deceased, anyway." So said because he had no clue how many were yet living, as HE LIED about his liberating Dachau when he had never left Hollywood.
"You've seen one redwood, you've seen them all." Then appointing James Watt.
Fat-boy Ed Meese, disgustingly saying that poor people just wanted free cheese. And ketchup for schoolchildren should count as a vegetable serving.

TWO-HUNDRED FORTY-ONE DEAD MARINES IN LEBANON. 241. Sitting ducks.

And THAT is just off the top of my non-Googling head.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. Ronald Reagan was a rightwing fool who wrecked America
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 10:10 AM by TexasObserver
He created the misnamed War on Drugs, which is a war on the underclasses who don't get their drugs from doctors and prescription drug companies.

He created the mechanisms for the gigantic leap in imprisonments, and the privatization of prisons, which is merely a way for government thugs to feed business to friends and get campaign contributions in return.

He destroyed the neighborhood Savings and Loans and banks, and fed their remains to big banks.

He destroyed the family farm with his globalist policies.

He made a secret deal with terrorists, traded arms for hostages, violated federal law, financed rightwing thugs in Central America, and let 250 Marines get killed in Beirut without a word.

Maybe I'll add more later, but Ronald Reagan was a bad movie actor who thought John Wayne movies were an accurate depiction of American history. I spit on him.
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reality based Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. He was an affable, malicious guy.
George Bush is a malicious guy with frat boy humor that appealed to what passes for a press corps in Washington DC these days.
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synesthesia Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. *
Was he even smart enough, or mentally cognizant to know what the hell he or his people were doing?

I'm just trying to get a sense of the man as a human, and not as a politician .

Usually, someone who would be capable and agreeable to the actions he is credited for, would show signs of lacking empathy and mental illness in their pre-political life. I can't find such things on Ronnie.

Bush tortured animals, Hitler liked to defecate on his partners while engaging in fornication, etc.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. This is a board for the primaries. Why the Reagan fascination?
I've given you the benefit of the doubt here, but you seem to be one who knows more about Reagan than he's pretending to know. I infer this based upon your questions. It's a tell, the way you keep trying to defend Reagan in a backhanded manner.

That comment about leftists running Wikipedia sounds a lot like a RW talking point, not an accurate observation.

If you really want to know about Reagan, why are you on the DU primary board asking about him? At best, this is a GD topic. Go there. Ask "What do you think about Reagan as president?" You'll get a lot of answers, and it will keep you busy all day.

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synesthesia Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. AH
iF I knew how to transfer this to the GD board, I would, my bad

as for the leftists running wikipedia being a talking point, ehhh...

conservatives aren't typically very intellectually curious, so spending their time editing an online encyclopedia doesn't really seem up their alley

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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Wrong. There's an endless army of little Republican turds ...
... who don't let their lack of intellectual prowess stop them from editing Wikipedia.

Sorry, but your answer does not ring true.

I'm going to have to excuse you.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yes
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. "Today, there are 827 American soldiers and over 10,000 civilians who have died..."
Sad, the toll of time.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. He Had A Sense Of Humor
as evidenced by some letters from the Reagan library.

---------------------------------------------------------------

April 18, 1984

Dear Mr. President,

My name is Andy. I am a seventh grade student.

Today my mother declared my bedroom a disaster area. I would like to request federal funds to hire a crew to clean up my room. I am prepared to provide the initial funds if you will privide matching funds for this project.

I know you will be fair when you consider my request. I will be awaiting your reply.

Sincerely yours,
Andy


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May 11, 1984

Dear Andy:

I’m sorry to be so late in answering your letter but, as you know, I’ve been in China and found your letter here upon my return.

Your application for disaster relief has been duly noted but I must point out one technical problem: the authority declaring the disaster is supposed to make the request. In this case, your mother.

However, setting that aside, I’ll have to point out the larger problem of available funds. This has been a year of disasters: 539 hurricanes as of May 4th and several more since, numerous floods, forest fires, drought in Texas and a number of earthquakes. What I’m getting at is that funds are dangerously low.

May I make a suggestion? This Administration, believing that government has done many things that could better be done by volunteers at the local level, has sponsored a Private Sector Initiatives Program, calling upon people to practice voluntarism in the solving of a number of local problems.

Your situation appears to be a natural. I’m sure your mother was fully justified in proclaiming your room a disaster. Therefore, you are in an excellent position to launch another volunteer program to go along with the more than 3000 already underway in our nation. Congratulations.

Give my best regards to your mother.

Sincerely,
Ronald Reagan
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. For whatever it's worth, I can recall my father saying he was immensely
stupid after he had a conversation with him at some event at the John Thomas Dye School where Patti was a good friend of mine when I was in 3rd and 4th grade. I can dimly remember him and Mrs Reagan from going to Patti's house to play. Oth, my father was not only a dyed in the wool liberal dem, he was a terrible intellectual snob.
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synesthesia Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. *
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 10:32 AM by synesthesia
Allright, nm, reading bout Patti Davis, his daughter now, found my smoking gun

" She wrote accounts of her life that did not portray her family in a positive light, and an autobiography, The Way I See It, which contained the revelations that her father was cold, distant, and aloof to everyone except his wife. It also contained accusations of child abuse by her mother. Davis revealed that she had undergone sterilization so that she could not bear children, reasoning that this would stop the cycle of abuse."

Nancy Reagan, a child abuser, wow...



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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Nancy is one mean woman. Her scorn is well documented...
there are several accounts by those in the inner circle of how she would show her scorn. She despised some Cabinet members and pushed RR to get rid of them.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
15. The life of Ronald Reagan was an illusion, he was completely
entranced by the whole Hollywood dream factories, he fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Reagan may well have been an affable personality, but it is difficult to get to that early personality, he began believing the illusion that is built around those in Hollywood, especially in the heydays of the early years.

All things considered, he was a "B" actor, never quite making it to "superstar", (not many actors are upstaged by a chimp). With the outbreak of WWII, Reagan, like many others, joined the Army. He was a Captain in the Army, but unlike some others, Clark Gable and Jimmy Stewart come to mind, he never saw action. While Gable was flying missions over Europe, as was Stewart, Reagan worked with the Army Signal Corps making training films, mostly about STD's and other innocuous items. All of my male relatives who went through the war remembered howling at the films and the "moral code" they supposedly depicted...they found it funny that a "Hollywood Stud" would be telling them how to abstain from sexual encounters...:D

Reagan, got caught up in the "Red Scare" of the McCarthy era. He "gave up" some of the actors, directors, and writers that were supposedly Communist. He fell for the whole "inevitable Communist world-wide takeover" in spades. He wanted to make sure he wasn't implicated, which would destroy whatever chance he had to remain employed.

He was one of the "Family Values" crowd as well, conveniently overlooking the fact that he abandoned Jane Wyman and his children for Nancy. Wyman had talent, a decent actress. Nancy on the other hand was another "B" actor, and the story is she was the "best" at oral sex in Hollywood circles. Regardless, handlers of Reagan made sure this aspect of his life was played down.

As governor of California, he began his "War on the Poor". Oddly, he "demanded" hard work of everyone else, but found ways to avoid any work himself. He was notoriously lazy, and had the air of privilege. This was most likely fostered by all of the previous years of Hollywood spin of him being a "model male" and the other illusions that come from living and working in the film industry. he began believing the things he knew were nothing more than hype.

As president, he was disconnected from the day to day items that came across his desk. Often napping through meetings, he became even more detached, opening doors to those under him that led to decisions that were detrimental to the nation as a whole. Deregulation of the S&L's led to a financial disaster of profound proportions, and the push for deregulation of other entities ensured that greed would be the rule of the day. Because of his lack of oversight and desire to not be involved in the serious business of Foreign Affairs, we got ADM Poindexter and LTC North coming close to, if not actually guilty of treasonous activities.

During his second term, it had become obvious that there was a disease process involved. I am sure that he had been seen by physicians and diagnosed, but this was obviously kept from the public. The public though could see changes, and speculation about Alzheimer's was spoken of softly. As long as he could read the script, he was an asset for the RW.

Corruption was the norm in the Reagan Administration. When there is little oversight from the top, those that are prone to abuse the system will do so. There were allegations, but most were covered up. There were a few actions taken, and some people went to prison. Nancy protected Ronnie like a she-bear w/a cub, running a tight-lipped ship was her goal.

In the end, just about everything about Reagan's life was about creating the illusion he was a "great leader". The fact of the matter is, he was little more than smoke and mirrors. Just another item that came out of Hollywood designed to make people feel good and forget about the troubles they face, if even for a short time.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
16. he was mean. covered it with joking.
nt
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
19. he was a vicious, smarmy little turd
who got Alzheimer's and started shitting himself and drooling

small justice for a genocidal piece of crap
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Dawggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
20. I'll go option B.
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