Nixon resignation and pardon shows impeachment catch-22

[yurbud]

If we impeach Cheney, Bush will pardon him. If we did a serial impeachment with Cheney first, whoever Bush appoints VP who becomes president would pardon both. I get the impression that even if Pelosi got in, SHE would pardon the whole bunch.

This is one of the stronger arguments against impeachment--that if we wait and lie low, we can criminally prosecute these guys which will have more real world consequences.

I don't know if that is even going to happen.

At the very least, shouldn't their be a law or even constitutional amendment limiting the pardon power, so presidents and governors couldn't use it as a get out of jail free card for those in their administrations?

What would be great is a bill proposing this on Bush's desk before his term is over.

[riqster]

1. The best things that came out of that were the investigations

...we found out a LOT about the crimes of the Nixonians. Same could happen here.

[Xipe Totec]

2. There is no pardon for impeachment

Nixon resigned before he was impeached. Then he was pardoned.

Had Nixon been impeached, Ford would not have been able to pardon him.

[yurbud]

3. pardon for the underlying crimes to prevent criminal prosecution

[H2O Man]

5. Correct.

The OP is based on a false stance.

[Frogger]

6. Sure he would have been able to.

It's only the impeachment that can't be pardoned. Any accessory crimes can be. Where'd you go to school?

[Xipe Totec]

7. Evidently, I went to a school that teaches reading skills (nt)

[SammyWinstonJack]

9. ...

:evilgrin:

[Frogger]

11. But no history n/t

[MrCoffee]

4. Impeachment does not end with criminal prosecution

it ends with removal from office. Criminal charges (if warranted) can follow after impeachment, but charges aren't required.

Don't confuse impeachment with a criminal trial. They are two separate proceedings.

[PATRICK]

8. Another alternative

which is unpalatable in a big way is to grant them all immunity on condition ALL the truth comes out. They can't plead the fifth in that case and by then the power over the evidence will have passed to a new President so that immunity can't be used as a convenient sucker ploy- again.

A Truth Commission of sorts with legislative consequences. Also it may be a tool to unseat crooked judges and other entrenched cronies no longer bound in a protective circle of mutual fifth amendment conspiracies. It can be used to at least dissolve Blackwater, removes protections from rogue corporations and other horrors like the BCCI bank scandal. Fewer trials, fewer crooks in jail but more substantive swift change. Otherwise it would cost plenty in time and money to nail a few for a little and miss most.
The only justice available at all is in truth and change. if Obama really means reconciliation, and I think truly he is not anywhere close to this level, he would see the nation desperately needs this purging and healing whatever the prospects are for impeachments and criminal trials.

[yurbud]

12. How about unseating a fascist Supreme Court justice, Alito?

[peacetalksforall]

10. I was one who originally said don't take the time to impeach, but

it's obvious that no other administration has broken and obstructed the laws and systems as much as this one and insteand of thinking successes in getting the impeachment or a pardon - it's necessary to get the evidence and their excuses out there for the history books. It is something that is going to go on for years and years anyway. Start the investigation and do it for the purpose of an impeachment. It has never been more deserved. We are not a real country unless we do it.

[yurbud]

13. we are a country, but not a real democracy. THE SHOCK DOCTRINE has sad parallel in Argentina...

After the military junta was removed, the democratically elected government was reluctant to prosecute anyone because they knew the same powers behind the throne were still in play, and they could tell the generals to stomp democracy again if they got too uppity.

The good thing here is the military, FBI, and CIA foot soldiers would be unlikely to cooperate with any persecution to protect Bush & Cheney. The bad side is, their mercenaries and friends in the Mossad and Saudi and Pakistani intelligence could blow some shit up, blame terrorists, and provide a nice distraction for Bush & Cheney at the very least.