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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:22 AM
Original message
Sibel Edmonds case: Front page of the (UK) papers (finally)
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 11:54 AM by lukery
There's a remarkable article For sale: West’s deadly nuclear secrets on the front page of the British Times today.

A WHISTLEBLOWER (Sibel Edmonds) has made a series of extraordinary claims about how corrupt government officials allowed Pakistan and other states to steal nuclear weapons secrets.
<...>
Edmonds described how foreign intelligence agents had enlisted the support of US officials to acquire a network of moles in sensitive military and nuclear institutions.


Sibel is in serious danger as a result of this article. Please support her by distributing widely.

*******
(Please note that the Times article is long, and I've tried to stay within the parameters of Fair Use. Please go read the whole thing)

From the article:

Edmonds described how foreign intelligence agents had enlisted the support of US officials to acquire a network of moles in sensitive military and nuclear institutions.

Among the hours of covert tape recordings, she says she heard evidence that one well-known senior official in the US State Department was being paid by Turkish agents in Washington who were selling the information on to black market buyers, including Pakistan.


The article doesn't name the official, but he is Marc Grossman, former #3 at the State Department, former ambassador to Turkey, and current Vice President at The Cohen Group, the lobbying company run by former Secretary of Defense William Cohen.

(Sibel) claims that the FBI was also gathering evidence against senior Pentagon officials – including household names – who were aiding foreign agents.

“If you made public all the information that the FBI have on this case, you will see very high-level people going through criminal trials,” she said.

Those household names include Richard Perle and Douglas Feith and possibly Paul Wolfowitz. Less familiar names include Eric Edelman, Feith's replacement at the Pentagon, and former Congressman Stephen Solarz.

(Sibel's) story shows just how much the West was infiltrated by foreign states seeking nuclear secrets. It illustrates how western government officials turned a blind eye to, or were even helping, countries such as Pakistan acquire bomb technology.


I'd quibble with this a little, Sibel has repeatedly said that her case involves criminal infiltration, not state-based espionage. As I wrote
back in 2006:
"Sibel's case is about the systematic, long-term, for-profit, looting of US nuclear secrets (and who knows what else) by criminal organizations who then sell the nuclear technology to the highest bidder(s) - including terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda.

To make matters worse, this has been taking place with the full knowledge of the US government."


Back to the Times
The wider nuclear network has been monitored for many years by a joint Anglo-American intelligence effort. But rather than shut it down, investigations by law enforcement bodies such as the FBI and Britain’s Revenue & Customs have been aborted to preserve diplomatic relations.


Again, I'd quibble with the purported reason for why the investigations were shut down. It may be true that diplomatic relations were at stake, but it's also true that the people at the Pentagon and the State Dept who repeatedly shut down the investigations were also personally profiting from the whole enterprise, which may have (ahem) coloured their decision making process.

In this Youtube, Sibel describes how investigations were shut down, despite the protestations of FBI agents (she also names Grossman here)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Cm-uRQmfUU

It's also important to note that they haven't specified which 'diplomatic relations' are at stake here. It's not just Pakistan. As Sibel said:
We don’t know what diplomatic relations they are referring to. They must be ashamed of it! They don’t want to mention it. So we have certain diplomatic relations that prevent criminals being prosecuted here. And I am talking about criminals in the United States of America.


The Times article then describes an FBI investigation into "links between the Turks and Pakistani, Israeli and US targets":
The Turks and Israelis had planted “moles” in military and academic institutions which handled nuclear technology. Edmonds says there were several transactions of nuclear material every month, with the Pakistanis being among the eventual buyers. “The network appeared to be obtaining information from every nuclear agency in the United States,” she said.

They were helped, she says, by (Marc Grossman) who provided some of their moles – mainly PhD students – with security clearance to work in sensitive nuclear research facilities. These included the Los Alamos nuclear laboratory in New Mexico, which is responsible for the security of the US nuclear deterrent.
<...>
The Turks, she says, often acted as a conduit for the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Pakistan’s spy agency, because they were less likely to attract suspicion...


The article goes on to describe how the head of the ISI, General Mahmoud Ahmad, is a supporter of al-Qaeda, including partly financing the 911 terrorist attacks, and is also good friends with AQ Khan. Obviously the nuclear secrets stolen from the US fed directly into Pakistan's nuclear program, and also into Khan's proliferation network. The so-called 'AQ Khan network' provided the nuclear programs of Iran, North Korea, Libya, and possibly up to a dozen other countries. Not only that, immediately prior to 911, Osama Bin Laden met with people in Khan's network with the aim of al-Qaeda acquiring nukes.

The article also describes how the ISI 'penetrated' the FBI translation unit in DC where Sibel worked, in much the same way that the Turkish network had placed moles there - enabling them to block important translations, steal incriminating documents, and recruit others to conduct espionage within the translation unit. Remarkably, this 'penetration' was not the result of remarkable sneakiness and superior spy-craft by the ISI and the Turkish networks - all evidence in both cases indicates that the penetration was condoned & enabled by senior people within the US government. Former FBI counterintelligence veteran John Cole (and others, including Sibel) describes the placement, despite his objections, of ISI operatives in the translation unit here

The Times article then notes something that I reported 18 months ago. Immediately after 911, the FBI arrested a bunch of people suspected of being involved with the attacks - including four associates of key targets of FBI's counterintelligence operations. Sibel heard the targets tell Marc Grossman: "We need to get them out of the US because we can’t afford for them to spill the beans." Grossman duly facilitated their release from jail and the suspects immediately left the country without further investigation or interrogation.

Let me repeat that for emphasis: The #3 guy at the State Dept facilitated the immediate release of 911 suspects at the request of targets of the FBI's investigation.

Back to The Times article:
Edmonds also claims that a number of senior officials in the Pentagon had helped Israeli and Turkish agents.

“The people provided lists of potential moles from Pentagon-related institutions who had access to databases concerning this information,” she said.

“The handlers, who were part of the diplomatic community, would then try to recruit those people to become moles for the network. The lists contained all their ‘hooking points’, which could be financial or sexual pressure points, their exact job in the Pentagon and what stuff they had access to.”


The article notes that Larry Franklin was one of those implicated in the scheme. However, Sibel has previously noted that Franklin was essentially a pawn in the system. More significant is the fact that high-level Pentagon officials were maintaining 'dossiers' on the sexual and financial proclivities of their underlings in order to be able to blackmail them.

I know that many of you have been (rightly) concerned about FISA, and many of you have (rightly) been confused by the inexplicable behaviour of Democrats in Congress, and wonder why they behave as though they are being blackmailed.

Now you know.

If any American journalists/media wants to step up, please remember that the nuclear black market story covered by The Times is just one element of Sibel's case.

Bradblog has more: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5518

Youtube: Everybody Knows http://youtube.com/watch?v=DHnIyGWEz_Y

Cross-posted at Let Sibel Edmonds Speak

( Email me if you want to be added to my Sibel email list. Subject: 'Sibel email list')

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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. k&r! Thanks. n/t
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. Paging Keith Olbermann, come in, Keith...
Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith
Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith
Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith Keith

This is your morning wakeup call! Get your folks on this story, please!
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. It would be so brave of Keith to pursue this story!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
60. Keith Olberman to comment on Sibel Edwards a-f-t-e-r othe r msn's cover her murder story
Keith where the fu*k are you dude?!?!
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #60
82. How can Keith be contacted?
Anyone know?
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
84. I hope you all consider pausing and asking just how far GE is going to
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 10:57 AM by higher class
allow Keith to go.

Targeting the President is one thing as there may have already been a decision that they can't resurrect him into great or even good approval ratings. But, going after their war partners is something else. War partners - Wolkowitz, Franklin, Perle, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and all the people that these five and all the others work for - and on behalf of.

No doubt Keith might go all the way if he were independent. The man appears to be sincere and the idea that he is making MSNBC/GE some money is a side point. He means what he says. But, is there a line?

At the same time, if Cheney can't close this down, MSNBC might as well lead with it.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
Great job, lukery! :thumbsup:
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
Wow! Thank you, Lukery!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
5.  wonder why they behave as though they are being blackmailed
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 11:45 AM by seemslikeadream
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BB1 Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
81. Because they probably are.
I found some stuff from 1976 and 1985.
Then Dutch Minister of Foreign Relations, Ruud Lubbers (who later rose to be High Commissioner of refugees to the UN) revealed he was apprehended by the CIA to 'let Khan go'. There was abundant evidence for nuclear information theft, but the CIA wanted to track AQ Khan, so they let him go (twice) and Khan proceeded to build an atomic bomb for Pakistan (and in the process sold the atomic secrets to Syria, North-Korea and Iran).

There have been a number of documentaries on this subject in the Netherlands, but none have led to a conviction of any kind. There have been questions in the Dutch Senate, but the bottom line was ever the same: the CIA did it. We're not to blame.
Which is bullshit, 'cause blackmail or no, our government should have stepped up. It were Dutch laws that were broken, in The Netherlands, so the lawbreaker should have been tried in Holland. Not let go under pressure of a foreing intelligence agency.

So, if y'all don't mind, I'm going to soak up every bit of info on this, and try to alert some government officials. If all the good people work together to get the bad people behind bars, we might get somewhere. Newspapers are dead, long live the Internet!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. ‘We need to get them out of the US because we can’t afford for them to spill the beans’,”
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Any guesses who the guy in the State Dept was?
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:26 PM
Original message
marc grossman n/t
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. Richard Perle?
good buddies
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Perle was Pentagon
but, yep, he's involved too.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
51. there some names missing Aschcroft & Gonzales
that they covered up the obvious breach shows someone high up was protecting the PNAC group

Cheney
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #51
73. I'm quite sure this is a PNAC project
That said, I'm a little confused as to how Pakistan having nuclear weapons helps the United States achieve world hegemony, which was/is their goal.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #73
95. Mideast turmoil is always good for PNAC...

Any Islamic nation having a bomb is a threat to Israel. Israel might overreact and do something to piss off Muslims elsewhere, which starts a conflict. At some point the US may have to step in and bomb or change a regime, "securing" our Persian Gulf interests in the process.
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. K & R
be safe Sibel.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. Just changed my avatar image in recognition of her bravery
I'm really afraid for her - what a courageous thing she has done.

Thanks for posting this lukery. A thumping big K & R!
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. Where is the MSM?
?
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. AWOL, as usual n/t
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. Sibel Edmonds and other Whistleblowers Group
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sibel Edmonds: KILL THE MESSENGER
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hamuli75056 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
70. Thanks, Kickass Video
People accept Watergate, Iran/Contra, HUAC, Nixon, Hoover, Mujahadeen, Reaganbush, etc., etc.

Yet suddenly, they abandon American Hero Sibel Edmonds.

I wonder if they aren't like the Security Moms and the NASCAR Dads.

Having the kind of thinking like those who would reelect Cheneybush in order to prevent the looming attack predicted by Cheney in the event that Kerry were elected.

It's sad to see so many Americans going for fear over principle.

Course some say the fear-mongers also steal elections.

Course, Cheneybush is capable of EVERYTHING.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. This is very good news.....question, though..
Isn't London "Times" a Murdoch owned paper? They've seemed to be breaking some very damaging stories to the Bushies lately. What's up with that?

Thanks for your commentary about the story Lukery. It gives the perspective...

Keep at it! We have been hoping for so long...maybe finally there's more traction given that Pakistan is on fire...

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
77. Murdock and Bush and Cheney Were Never Friends, or Even Fellow Travelers
Doubt htat their goals are even the same--and if they are, then there's the conflict, right there. You can only have one king at a time. And Bush and Cheney are queering it for all would-be dictators everywhere by their total fuck-up.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #77
85. Murdoch and Cheney-Bush may not be friends, but they certainly
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 11:02 AM by higher class
are partners - FOX is our every day, in your face proof (even when we don't watch it - our relatives and friends do - and all our military overseas are forced to.) That's Murdoch for us. - fighting for Cheney-Bush and all Republicans everywhere, plus Dems who follow them. And don't forget radio and NY Post and other wood products.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
79. AFAIK
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 08:50 AM by CJCRANE
he isn't allowed any editorial input into the The Times and also doesn't have much editorial influence with (UK) Sky News. His main influence seems to extend to the Sun (UK) and Fox News.

On edit: He is now apparently concentrating on his new acuqisition - the Wall Street Journal.

On edit: IIRC Murdoch's son, James Murdoch, is now in charge of the UK side of News International (as Murdoch is now concentrating on the WSJ).
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Stalwart Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. Where is Melek Can Dickerson?
The Top Ten worked well for the FBI.

Today there are many people that go into hiding somewhere in the world for various reasons. Where are they? Sometimes I find a story and name like Melek Can Dickerson and wonder how easy it might be to find this person. There is some game aspect to it aside from the real benefit.

What if there was a web site (and perhaps there is)for the "Most Wanted to Find" (for various sensational reasons) people with background stories and leads with the opportunity for anyone to contribute research. Perhaps the site might become the new "Face Book".

It would become especially interesting when it got to geographical based location information and what some people might do to contribute more information readily available there.

Where in the world is Melek Can Dickerson?

Something like a treasure or big game hunt.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. They flew to Europe never to return
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. last seen in belgium
they have all their assets in Turkey - she has a Turkish passport - they'll probably retire there.
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Stalwart Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. An Exciting Intro
To the chase for Melek Can Dickerson. Europeans can participate. With an American husband, ex Air Force she and he might not be hard to find. What are they doing?
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. they were at NATO
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. Big K & R !!!
:bounce::kick::bounce:
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. What do they mean by an Anglo-American intelligence effort?
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 12:50 PM by The Backlash Cometh
"The wider nuclear network has been monitored for many years by a joint Anglo-American intelligence effort. But rather than shut it down, investigations by law enforcement bodies such as the FBI and Britain’s Revenue & Customs have been aborted to preserve diplomatic relations."

As in ethnics need not apply?

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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. CIA/MI6 n/t
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Oh. Interesting.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. Recommended.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. haaretz
Thank you Haaretz for covering the story

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/942027.html
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
63. Interesting.
So they picked it up.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
24. K & R
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thank you for your tireless work on this. This is news. This is important.
We can't be talking nonsense about "unity" until our country begins to face up to the corruption that has taken us to this dismal state of affairs.

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
26. Great analysis! K&R
Thanks for pulling it all together and providing commentary.
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
31. Where is the 'tough on terror' crowd?
Black market nuke technology possibly sold to al Qaeda? Are you kidding me? And citizens are considered unpatriotic (possibly terrorists if HR 1955 leads to dissent=terrorism legislation) for questioning these 'heroic' officials?

If terrorists detonate a black market acquired nuke in the US we will be expected to give the traitors who facilitated the sale of said nuke dictatorial powers. After all, this is what happened after 9/11. The people who were derelict in their duty at best told the public they couldn't prevent more attacks without the crutch of police state tactics (like torture).
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Progressive Radical Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
90. I'm wonding and thinking the same thing. n/t
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. wow. k n r
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
33. the irony...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larisa-alexandrovna/sibel-edmonds-speaks_b_80077.html

I name Grossman, Feith, and Perle... You did much better:)
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Larisa's Huff Post at DU here:
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. sibel has done even better!
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 07:35 PM by lukery
She named all of them!

Go here
http://letsibeledmondsspeak.blogspot.com/2008/01/sibel-names-names-in-pictures.html

Everyone please go there and download a copy in case the website is pulled.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. oh yeah? how about this?
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. magic! n/t
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. should we simply sit back now...
and watch to see what happens? have a drink or two after all that work?:D
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. i need a drink
again.

and i have to get up in the middle of the night again. sheesh.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. i am waiting for either the Turkish mafia
or the SS to show up and drag my arse out back... i love paranoia, it really burns calories;)
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. send them my regards :-) n/t
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R. (nt)
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. more kick... stay up there
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. K&R, this is BIG!

Congratulations on finally getting some exposure on this extremely important information. Hopefully this will spread to other media. I don't expect the US corporatist media to cover this anytime soon, but I hope to be proven wrong.

Isn't Clinton tied up in this as well? :hide:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
64. Ssssssshhhhhh!
;-)
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
37. K and R
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
38. kick. It just won't stay up there.
"More significant is the fact that high-level Pentagon officials were maintaining 'dossiers' on the sexual and financial proclivities of their underlings in order to be able to blackmail them."

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babydollhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
41. kick
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kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #41
91. kick II
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
43. Blackmail would explain the inexplicable. . . . . k&r. . . . . . . . .n/t
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whyzayker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. K&R
Oh to be front page news here in the states...........
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. I think so too, annabanana. Blackmail explains it.
From an old thread from October:


However, Mr. Dent was involved in a 1970 fundraising operation for the Nixon administration that was a precursor to Watergate. The "townhouse operation" at 1310 19th St. NW raised money for a slush fund, which was used to make donations to political candidates with the intent of blackmailing politicians in the future. The townhouse operation and Watergate involved some of the same fundraisers, donors and campaign finance abuses.




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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #43
75. yeah
I suppose I knew that.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
45. k&r
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'm betting Libya has the Bomb or a bomb
compliments of the network
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
49. Fascinating revelations and connections going on here.
Sibels bravery is beyond anything the right wing could ever dream up. Maybe now people can find out what General Mahmoud Ahmad was doing in DC on September 11, 2001. Link here to 911 truth video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzOJ4oXUDps
Mahmoud appears in the clip at exactly the 2 minute mark.


From the Times UK article: The Pakistani operation was led by General Mahmoud Ahmad, then the ISI chief.

Intercepted communications showed Ahmad and his colleagues stationed in Washington were in constant contact with attachés in the Turkish embassy.

Intelligence analysts say that members of the ISI were close to Al-Qaeda before and after 9/11. Indeed, Ahmad was accused of sanctioning a $100,000 wire payment to Mohammed Atta, one of the 9/11 hijackers, immediately before the attacks.

The results of the espionage were almost certainly passed to Abdul Qadeer Khan, the Pakistani nuclear scientist.

Khan was close to Ahmad and the ISI. While running Pakistan’s nuclear programme, he became a millionaire by selling atomic secrets to Libya, Iran and North Korea. He also used a network of companies in America and Britain to obtain components for a nuclear programme.

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
54. K&R FISA is the hammer to the blackmail
As another poster noted it is the only thing that explains the inexplicable.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. See question #58 . . . please . .
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
55. Let Sibel SPEAK
This is sobering and enraging.

:kick:
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
57. K&R n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
58. Praise for Sibel Edmonds . . . however .. .
maybe I don't have enough imagination, but what kind of secrets could be so horrible -- short of murder or something that would put someone in prison, and I doubt they'd talk about that on the phone or the internet --- that someone would let fascists control our government?

The ice is fairly well broken on homosexuality ---

What could this blackmail have to do with --- ??

I mean . . . we're suggesting that these people would be doing the right thing . . . if only they weren't being blackmailed?

Maybe these people are just as much liars and crooks as the Repugs?






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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #58
71. If I had to guess...

there is likely tons of information yet to be dug up related to (drug) money laundering networks.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #71
87. So, you think that they are as big crooks as those blackmailing them --- ????
The Drug War is obviously a money maker for some government officials --- perhaps even channeled into government projects such as Iran-Contra?

Also gives us opportunities for intervention in other nations affairs ---
and it certainly looks to me like when there we do considerable damage to their health, for one.

But --- again --- are these things that people would discuss openly on telephones or in e-mail?

Granted the contact itself with certain individuals would lead to a possible scandal ---
but I don't see that these communications would be openly incriminating in the info they provide.

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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #87
94. People have to use some form of communication to manage....
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 04:29 PM by AntiFascist
their overseas bank accounts, or movements of shadowy funds. I don't think they would be explicitly discussing drugs or arms or AQ Khan, but there may be all kinds of funds moving around that most people aren't aware of, which may also be tied to certain foreign lobbyists.

On edit: Notice also that it is the NSA which is involved in the illegal wire tapping. They are specialists in tracking cash flows and bank transactions.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #94
98. Evidently, Hastert had a suitcase full of cash delivered to his home???
It's been a while since I read Sibel Edmonds on this, but wasn't it something like that?

Wouldn't that be immediately incriminating if anyone was bothering to look?

Understand that quite a few years ago -- 10, 15 -- that retired CIA people began to check Swiss bank accounts and the like connected to drug profits/laundering and would present the evidence to members of Congress and they would resign quietly.

LBJ was also accept HUGE cash payments right in the Oval Office --- !!!

And, before that in his Congressional offices ---

I expect that cash is still a primary way to do this ---

HOWEVER, I do see and appreciate what you are saying re NSA --
maybe they can also make accounts disappear?

As I understand it American banks are laundering at least half the drug money --- ???
Citicorp --- $500 million a year? That may be an old figure ---

I would also imagine that various lawyers, etal would be handling a lot of this ---

What role romances?
They seem to be common ---

Could break up a marriage . . . ?


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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #98
99. I have seen several reports that claim...
hundreds of billions of laundered money flows into Wall Street, and that this covert trade actually helps prop up the economy. There was a documentary about cocaine trafficking in South Florida, before the War on Drugs, and it explained how the drug trade literally created the Miami downtown landscape through real estate money laundering. Did the War on Drugs actually slow down the cocaine trafficking into the US? Not really if you consider this, this and there's also this.

If this is the case, then it may be understandable why government chooses to keep this dirty little secret swept under the rug, and why things like Iran/Contra never get fully investigated...or why Sibel Edmonds is gagged and Hastert can quietly resign.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #99
103. Drug trade is as good as gold to those who are interested in gold . . .
and that includes corrupt government officials and police enforcement --- !!!
I think you're right --- the Wall Street figure is probably more like hundreds of billions.

Yes --- drug trafficking has only increased --- and that seems to be what is intended.

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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #99
105. more on your theme
drugs money has for years help fund the CIA's (and many other intell groups) black ops, see for more info:

The Beast Reawakens, by Martin Lee (CIA/ex-Nazi connections, hate groups, all sort of strange and scary tie-ins with current politics, including drug running)

Dark Alliance, by Gary Webb (CIA and cocaine, Gary probably lost his life for this)
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
62. Error: You've already recommended that thread. k/r
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
65. K & R. This stuff has got to come out -- thanks, Lukery...
...your persistence on her story is appreciated.
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rockybelt Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
66. If only we could move it to the front pages here
Somebody PLEASE get this story to Olbermann.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #66
88. As time passes, Edmonds' information will also become less valuable . ..
I'm sure they're counting on that ---

It's given them time to cover their tracks --- protect themselves --- arrange coverups ---

etal ---


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colorado_ufo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
67. Thanks lukery - K&R!
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
68. also on that list is Rep Lantos. His hawkish support for war and more war
was very helpful for Bush. I am sorry he has cancer, partly it is sad when anyone gets cancer, but also i was very much looking forward to his defeat in the Primaries (he was likely to lose).
I was attacked for mentioning his less than stellar record in congress for progressive causes.

I wonder what his connection is in all this.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
69. K&R n/t
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
72. Everybody who wants to, can write to keith at [email protected]
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 04:25 AM by BigBearJohn
Imagine if a couple thousand people from DU
wrote to Keith with a link to this article.
I think it might get somebody's attention.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #72
86. Done!
I linked to the UK article and the DU thread --

I hope he takes on this challenge...
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
74. lukery
lukery

Nuclear weapon secrets on the loose?.. What the hell is happening, and going on in this Administration.. If you don't want to use nuclear weapon, you don't give it away free for all who want it...

When you believe this Administration cant do nothing worse, they can... And Nuclear secrets on the loose, isn't that a criminal thing???... It would in other country.. But So it looks, that right is wrong, wrong is right, and pigs can fly in US today...
Welcome to the world of 1984...

This is really scary

And kudos for Times, who are printing this.. But it is maybe a symbol of time, that the news are coming from outside US to the US and not the other way around...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
76. morning kick
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kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #76
92. kickety-kick
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
78. And people call 9/11 truthers kooks.
What is kooky is not connecting the dots and prosecuting these criminals.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
80. Is this also in the hardcopy version of the Times? nt
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jhain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
83. Most Greatful, Lukery
Thank you for all your hard work.
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Progressive Radical Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
89. I don't want to hear:
I don't want to hear any neoconservative, conservative, Republican or any other fascist ever say that they are trying to fight terrorism or nuclear terrorism.

It's just too laughable and if the person that's trying to tell me this is in close proximity, they might just get a fist to the face. All this nuclear terror fear mongering they employ while behind closed doors they are actually facilitating what they claim to be fighting against.

If this were any other administration, we'd have 8 years of trials and impeachment hearings. Not so with this teflon admin. All we get is that there isn't time for impeachment and if a subpoena is issued for investigations, they're just ignored.

This is the wacky world we live I suppose. :eyes:
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
93. Fantastic! Sorry to weigh in a day late.
Thank you so much for breaking this down and spelling out what The Times was too chicken to illuminate. And you are right, this is just one element. But now that Sibel is talking, we can see just how EXPLOSIVE even this one element is.

Why is Vanity Fair silent? Any chance they will do a Sibel Edmonds follow up and cover ALL elements of this?
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
96. kick! n/t
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
97. Thank you so much for the information. K&R
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
100. morning kick
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
101. OK, I've got a rather bizarre question to ask here....
Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 10:33 AM by antigop
Here is what the article says...


The Turks and Israelis had planted “moles” in military and academic institutions which handled nuclear technology. Edmonds says there were several transactions of nuclear material every month, with the Pakistanis being among the eventual buyers. “The network appeared to be obtaining information from every nuclear agency in the United States,” she said.

They were helped, she says, by the high-ranking State Department official who provided some of their moles – mainly PhD students – with security clearance to work in sensitive nuclear research facilities. These included the Los Alamos nuclear laboratory in New Mexico, which is responsible for the security of the US nuclear deterrent.


Question: Exactly HOW did these "moles" -- the "PhD students" --- come into the US? Any chance they were on h1-b or L-1 visas?
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. Very Interesting....
Makes one wonder, doesn't it?
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
102. K&R funny that the corporate owed US media won't touch this with a ten foot pole
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