Discussion on Telecom Immunity

[CT_Progressive]

First, I am AGAINST IMMUNITY. Period. Please read this post before you reply half-cocked.

However, I am a liberal and an open-minded person. I want to at least think about and talk about what immunity means (and what no immunity means).

Case in point: "No immunity" could mean an unknown (by us) amount of civil lawsuits, and of course, some amount of criminal charges. It is likely that the criminal charges will result to fines. So, the result of "No immunity" is a huge monetary loss for most telecoms (the ones that were in on it).

With me so far? The questions I'd like to talk about are:

1) How will this affect the telecom industry/economy/market?
2) How will this affect our phone bill (assuming you use one of those telecoms) ?
3) How will this affect the law/the future ?


I'll start.

1) I don't think it would have a huge impact, but I definitely think it will have some. Possibly layoffs/firings within the involved telecoms. Definitely will affect their stocks. I don't forsee a huge impact to the overall U.S. economy.

2) Unknown. They could raise their rates to compensate, but that would hurt their marketshare, as people would swap to another carrier.

3) Strangely, granting Immunity via a bill would benefit the Law in the future, because it wouldn't set a precedence because it would not be a finding of the Court. It would be a bill, for this one instance. While it might be assumed that the government will grant immunity again in the future, that is not guaranteed. So, oddly, its better if they are granted immunity rather than not and letting the court find them not guilty. (if the court would do that, which they might). Forbidding immunity opens us up for a legal precedent, which could be disastrous.


Personally, I'm still against immunity. I don't think these things are that bad to deal with, and I have faith in the courts to find them guilty.

[peacetalksforall]

1. How much is our Constitution worth? How do you value a police state?

[CT_Progressive]

2. Wow, way to not read the OP.

:eyes:

[peacetalksforall]

6. We are asked how much it willcost us?

We have other bills facing us -

. the future deaths of Americans, including progressives who have opposed the wars of hate. These innocents are going to die at the hands of people out for revenge when the breadth and scope of our crimes are known. Travel will be difficult.

. trying to cover our debt.

. the destruction of limbs, immune systems, mental health, dependencies of escape from anquish

. the cost of the prisons that are already built, maintained, and still quite empty and th destruction of the social structure when the breadwinner is shackled.

. thefts of billions of our money, over and over ....

The cost of a higher telephone bill and costs to the companies are and are implied in your questions and pale in comparison to some I've listed and we are without a right of privacy.

I am not following all the twists of the precedent set-up you present to comment. I only addressed the money. I think costs are less worrying in light of what we're losing by selling tickets to our minds, hearts, and privacy - the loss of what we're about with immunity.

[midnight]

3. I like the part about having faith in the courts.... I bet that's

What the Governor of that Southern state was thinking too. Can someone help me with his name/state. Well he is prison because a judge will not sign papers for his parole. It is part of the legal process going through the courts. The former Alabama (D) Govenor Don Siegelman.

[williesgirl]

4. They agreed to curry favor with the Feds for profit - period - no other reason

could exist. They knew the Feds could get FISA warrants if they had the goods to get one. So they had to have known the Feds were breaking our laws. They didn't care. For profit. Believe me, they got something in return. They didn't build extra buildings etc for nothing but to help out. The ones who went along got contracts the others did not. They benefitted financially.

Financial penalty is the ONLY thing corporations care about. If they can't be sued, nothing is off limits. New findings show this started 2 fucking weeks after Bush took office - before 9/11. There is absolutely nothing to suggest anything but greed drove their decisions.

Not every Telecom went along. Those that didn't suffered thru lack of federal contracts. Their stocks and profits were hit because of that.

Now these assholes should get off? I think NOT.

[conspirator]

5. government immunity, telecomm immunity, military immunity == FASCISM

When every instrument of control is immune to the law why is that people still drag their asses to vote? Self delusion?

[TahitiNut]

7. "Immunity" means never knowing WHAT was done.

This is my greatest concern. There is one primary reason that the Cheney/Bush administration wants to immunize these corporate cronies - and that's to forever hide what was done in violation of the law and the Constitution. While many OPINE on the impact of 'no immunity' ... we really cannot know the results of prosecution. Pretending that we do is a contradictory position. How many elected officials were spied upon? How many political 'enemies' were spied upon? How much industrial espionage was done under the guise of "national security?"

I just can't see issuing a "preemptive pardon" for unknown behavior. Once granted, this immunity cannot be rescinded! Yet it CAN be granted at any time in the future where the specifics may be better understood.