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DUers scream about a 3 yr. old that delays flight 15 min. but accept 11 hours?

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:06 PM
Original message
DUers scream about a 3 yr. old that delays flight 15 min. but accept 11 hours?
I remember a thread from weeks ago that must have been 150 posts long with virtually EVERYONE agreeing that the famly with the 3 year old, that delayed the flight 15 minutes because she was frightened, deserved to be thrown off.

At the time, I commented that these same people would sit by passively and obediently like sheep while their civil rights were taken away by being incarcerated for 11 hours with no santitation or food or medicine -with preganant women, crying babies, sick elderly people, panicked claustrophobics, etc.

I guess I was right. The thread about this has gotten little attention.

Pretty weird. Don't you think?
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. I might if I know what thread you were talking about.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. yes, arent' we DUers awful.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Sorry, forgot the golden rule...
No criticizing DU.

:sarcasm:

Thanks for the thoughtful response.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good point.
Edited on Mon Feb-19-07 06:10 PM by DesertedRose
And probably why I'm hypersensitive and hypervigilent about traveling with my son (just turned 2). He is a good baby (people tell us that all the time) but I'd just as soon not travel. Too stressful.

It's easier to ignore the anti-kid threads and hang out in the DUers with families section of the board.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. I've seen lots of threads on this as well as previous similar
incidents... I don't get your point.. There was pretty much universal outrage... :shrug:
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Little Wing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. DU Airlines would never take off.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. Actually, it would take off...just never land.
:rofl:
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. Broad brush here. How many DU'ers were on that plane that sat by passively?
Most people can relate to a screaming child on a plane because they have experienced it, but cannot relate to an 11-hour wait because they haven't.
Personally, I don't think the 3-year old should have been thrown off the plane AND I don't believe those people should have been held.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. That's true. I probably drew a false dichotomy to make a point.
But my real point is "Why do we Americans passively accept such poor service and treatment as we get on airlines?"
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. That is why I don't fly
:shrug:
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. Because we're hostages.
We have no power. At all. If you want to get on your plane, you WILL follow the established procedures. You will wait in the lines. You will be searched. And if your job, your vacation, your family visit depends on it - well, what do you do? You can write all the letters you want; the airlines will point to the TSA; TSA will point to the Patriot Act; Congress will point to the "Terra"ists. I just don't see a solution anywhere I've ever looked. Do you?
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. DU AIRLINES
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
49. I agree with you on both counts.
Crying children are part of normal life. Being held prisoner on a plane should NOT be.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. I once killed a man in Reno, just to watch him die
Why do you think this would bother me?
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Note to other dismissive posters:
If you are going to make a short, dismissive response, at least have the comedic flair that Teaser has!

Funny response.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. IMHO
I disagree with your impression of that "3 yr old" thread and I don't see anything weird considering the way volume tends to flow in GD.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. Any discussion about kids and parenting inevitably erupts into a flamefest.
Having it be on a plane was pretty much secondary. I wouldn't read too much into it.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Guess yer right...
But isn't the reaction to the 11 hours (or even 3 hours) a bit... well... "sheepish" in general on the part of the flying public.

Doesn't the whole issue of what we EXPECT as consumers and as VOTERS related and HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT?
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. I don't accept 11 hours.
Commercial air flight has essentially become cattle cars with wings. I fly as little as possible.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. I've never flown....doesn't affect me one iota....
....this EVIL'DUer couldn't care less! :eyes:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. If a 3 year old gets kicked off a plane...
That's got to be one hell of a horrible kid.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Or a baby shoe-bomber.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. Even us "Pure" DU'ers are subject to HYPOCRACY...from time to time...n/t
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Not to mention bad spelling.
:D

Sorry, couldn't resist.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. Yeah....I chew gum and I always spell that one wrong...Thanks for catching it...
:thumbsup:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. What about we DUers that would scream after 2 hours, but ok with 15 min kid wait?
realize that those that posted were just those that posted, and not the rest of us who didn't want to get into it. Accept 11 hours? No way. What thread are you talking about "this thread has gotten little attention"? Those that squeak the loudest don't nec represent the rest of us.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Sounds about right to me.
"What thread are you talking about "this thread has gotten little attention"?"

See what I mean?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. No. What 11 hours? What thread?
Am I right in assuming that there is no thread about an 11 hour wait, so that means DUers who scream about having to wait 15 minutes for a kid to calm down don't care? I am confused.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. Don't fly, wasn't me
n/t
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. The people trapped for 11 hours should've all had kids throwing tantrums.
They'd then be able to get off the plane. :silly:

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. The last time a plane was held
and I flippantly remarked that I'd take hostages if that was what was required to get a response to the plane - I was royally flamed. So I think I'll stay out of the airline posts.

Except to say that the NY weather situation did appear to be some sort of unique phenomenon, from what I read. Quite different from an airport just ignoring the fact that there was an airplane on the tarmac.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. If I recall, you were flamed, inappopriately, because your comment
which was meant figuratively ( I assume it was figurative) was treated as if you were being literal.

As for the weather, it ain't always the weather.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. figurative-literal
I really would have gone flippo sitting on a plane for over 3 hours with absolutely NO rational explanation. I go flippo when the grocery store has the wrong price in the computer if it's after 12:00 noon. I never believe I'm the first or only person to complain about something, rather that management thinks they can get away with ignoring customers. Would I actually take someone hostage? I don't know, I suspect proposing the notion of what would they do if someone were dying might get them to implement their own alternate scenario strategies. I happen to think anger is the appropriate response to much of what is going on in this country and that the "appropriate behavior" crowd has effectively neutered our ability to get things done. That mess at Walter Reed is prime. How in the HELL has that been allowed to go on for so long?? Boggles my mind. People need to be doing some ranting and raving, seems to me.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. The airport doesn't control the gates, the airline does.
The airline screwed up. They admitted it. They kept hoping the planes sitting on the tarmac would be able to take off and not until planes started stacking up at the gates did they realize they were in over their heads. It was all 100% the airlines, not the airport.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. Two different situations
I don't know about the airline/airport/weather situation in New York, except that the weather was peculiar that day and there's not a lot anybody can do about weather.

The other situation was in Texas and was only one airplane. It was just some bizarre oversight and the pilot finally just 'drove' up to a gate. I don't think that one had anything to do with the airline, I think it was some sort of airport problem.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. A ha
thanks for the correction. :)
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
28. Bit Melodramatic Dont'cha Think? No DU'ers Were Screaming, But Nice Try.
They were agreeing. And I agree with them in that case.

In this case, I haven't seen very many DU'ers DISAGREE that waiting for 11 hours isn't disgraceful, so it seems to me like you're trying to create a hypocritical situation where one does not in fact exist.

So no, nothing weird about it at all.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Perhaps a bit... However...
But you gotta get attention on DU to make a point sometimes.

"Perhaps You Know What I Mean By That, Don't You, Mr. Mind Crime!?"

The larger point is that the level of outrage at the 3 year old was way higher.

Also, low expectations for service (in citizens as well as consumers) leads to shitty companies and shitty leaders.

Don't You Think So?
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. I get your point and agree.
I didn't duke it out with everyone on that thread about the 3-year-old becasue, quite honestly, the parents were being putzes (they took the seats together and stuck the kid in front. They should have separated and put the kid with one of them, but I digress).

Not only are our rights being eroded and people sit passively by, it also annoys me when I hear others sans families talking about how THEY pay GOOD MONEY to eat in a restaurant or sit on a plane or whatever, never considering that the family with the "disturbing" child ALSO paid GOOD MONEY to eat out or travel, too.

We all should be more tolerant of one another and less tolerant of governmental intrusions is the bottom line.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
33. I don't know how JetBlue will ever get their reputation back.
Talk about a complete meltdown of service.
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Pool Hall Ace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
34. The 3-year-old was not kicked off the plane for crying or screaming.
She refused to get into her seat and allow herself to be strapped in. I don't care how old you are, if you are not going to take your seat and fasten your seatbelt, off the plane you go.

I don't know what this 11-hour incident is that you are talking about, so I can't comment.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
37. Who's accepting?
It's deplorable. I was stuck for 8 hours once. I held my tantrum until I got to someone who could do something about it.

I don't know what thread you're talking about. Link?
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. I myself am not a passive person, however I did
manage to sit on the tarmac for 2 hours and I was getting pretty upset.. You are stuck in a chair and thats it, don't move, don't get up, don't do anything but sit and I had a two year old with me...
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
42. Not all of us sit here all day reading every single thread...
and I just searched for said 11-hour wait thread and could not locate it, so...

Maybe post a link if it's so important.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Here you go.
It is not about the 11 hour tarmac incident as such, but about the larger issue of the Passenger Bill of Rights being proposed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Thx.
Why no link to the other thread??
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
43. Spending 11 hours on a A320 and not getting anywhere would drive me insane.
Seriously. I can deal with the kid who delayed the plane for fifteen minutes. The 11 hours would drive me to the brink of insanity.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. I know. I absolutely can't imagine being in that situation.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. I got stranded on a plane for six hours once.
Another two and I would have been on CNN that night.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Last time I was on a cross country plane flight
I ended up in the hospital for a week with a blood clot in my leg.

I'd be terrified if I had to sit so long before a flight even started! I've been wondering what I should do if I ever got in that situation. . .
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
46. Did I miss a bunch DUers expressing their support for 11 hour delays?
I think that should be criminal.

I also thought the family that wouldn't control their kid should he been tossed off.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
47. I want to go on record as saying that child should be executed.
Screaming babies? Bah, humbug!!

.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. Not the child -- just its bungling parents who didn't know how to manage their
own family. :-)

The child could be rehabilitated after being placed with another family.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
51. What would have happened if all the passengers had begun chanting?
Edited on Mon Feb-19-07 08:40 PM by pnwmom
PLEASE LET US OUT.

PLEASE LET US OUT.

PLEASE LET US OUT.

Would the attendants have freaked out enough to convince the airline to let them deplane? Or would the whole planeload of passengers have been arrested?
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
52. On DU no one can hear you scream
but you can see me naked on my cam! :rofl:
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