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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 02:18 AM
Original message
God, Guns, and Gays...
Over the past week, we seemed to have run through each and every one of these issues in several threads, in response to things such as another horrendous shooting to Mitt Romney's stupid fucking remarks about religion. Usually the statement in my subject line is used derisively, as it should, none of the 3 "issues" mentioned are so called "bread and butter" issues, such as income disparity, lack of a social safety net, etc.

But, that's not what matters, what really matters is that we find a way to reach at least SOME people who do consider these important issues. We can't, no matter how we try, to reach all of them, but some are reasonable enough to try to at least prioritize their issues, and may vote Democratic in the next few election cycles.

So how do we reach some of those who vote based on these, and some other issues? I think its more a matter of how to approach these issues, rather than either ignoring them or changing any positions to appeal to these types of voters.

Under the God "issue", first we must face facts, a little less than three quarters of Americans are Christian, less than a third actually go to church regularly, and less than that are considered members of the "Religious Right". Most of the Christians in America are basically people who believe, but, more or less, its a Christmas and Easter thing. The problem here is that the Democrats and Republicans are treating a minority of Christians as if they were the most important voting bloc in the country. In reality they aren't, they are more likely to vote compared to the average American, so their numbers are exaggerated when counted among registered voters.

I figure the best way to deal with the Religious right is to increase the voter participation of more Americans, especially younger people, 18-30 years old, who are, generally, less religious, or, at the very least, less zealous. The best way to do this is to appeal to their issues, it seems to me that for many politicians, these people seem to not exist, yet they can constitute a large voting bloc. These are people whose biggest issues reflect their life journey, many are just starting in careers, or going to college, and/or starting families. So for them, things such as low interest college loans, publicly provided child day care, job training and security, etc. would be considered their most important and pertinent issues.

The Gun issue is a stickler, mostly because there are passionate people on both sides of the debate, and too many are too uncompromising on this issue. The fact of the matter is that guns aren't going to go away any time soon, so we should deal with that reality as it stands now, not what we hope for in the future. To be honest, my personal belief is that standard registration and background checks are enough as is. However, the problem is that too many people think guns cause crime, they don't, they just make some crimes easier to commit than they would otherwise with some other weapon.

Banning guns will save lives, a sword wielder at a mall wouldn't be able to kill or wound as many people as someone with a gun, however, the fact is that the guns aren't the problem, the crime, or, more particularly, the motives for crimes, are the problem. Outside of a few psychopaths and people with psychological problems, most murders in this country are crimes of passion or desperation. The causes can be complex, but generally speaking they are crimes caused by stress. We could increase the ration of police officers per person in this country to 1:1, and it still wouldn't solve the problem. We could eliminate the Bill of Rights entirely, and it wouldn't solve the problem.

The fact is that the cause of most crimes are a combination of abject poverty, the existence of ghettos, and hopelessness. The lack of a safety net, and social mobility, in addition to lack of gainful employment, are the biggest problems that face our society today. Having said all this, I think Democrats, in general, should not have Gun Control as a primary issue on the national stage. Instead, we should think of effective ways to reduce the motives for committing violent crimes. Decriminalization of most illicit drugs, increasing the safety net, increase public investment in local businesses in inner cities and ghettos, and increase funding for grants and low interest loans for low income people to go to college or trade schools. These, I believe, would lead to a great decrease in crime, especially in the cities, but also nationwide.

As far as the last one, Gays, well, again an issue with a not so easy answer. The big problem goes back to the first issue, under "God", and part of the answer is there as well. We are seeing a huge shift in society as society is adapting to changing social norms. To be honest, I think this change is going far too slowly, I would like for things such as Gay Marriages to be legally recognized nationwide yesterday. What Democrats need to do is NOT, repeat, NOT, pander to the worst elements in American society in regards to Gay Civil Rights. What they need to do is try to appeal to fairness and equality, while at the same time GBLT people and their allies work to change our culture to be more accepting of GBLT people.

While all this is occurring, what we also need to do is remind people of the real bread and butter issues, education, health care, living wages, social security, etc. We need to make sure THESE are the issues that are at the forefront of American consciousness. What we need are positive ways to approach the people of this country, not trying to divide them up unnecessarily. Keep the eye on the ball, that's how you win elections.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bread and butter issues...
don't matter to those in the God, Guns and Gays crowd. The only way to draw any folks from that crowd is to take up one of their fixations. Screw the intolerance against gays and the desire for theocracy, don't want any of that!

Bringing the one issue gun nuts to the fold would be enough for us to win. I'm entirely convince if the gun issue was dropped on our side, we would win handily. That is one of the many reasons I support Bill Richardson.
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JeffreyWilliamson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Speaking as one of Teh Gays...
Edited on Sun Dec-09-07 04:52 AM by JeffreyWilliamson
I can say that there is one way to work around that issue and drag votes to our side, and I know it from experience...

My mother is about as wacky fundamentalist as they come, and she says ad nauseum that she can never vote "democrat party" because they don't "stand up for life", (which is of course nonsense, as those she does vote for screw the poor kids and send everyone else's off to die in their war). Oh, she knows that the country's being flushed down the toilet, but we can't have those "democrat politicians" getting into office and forcing everyone to have mandatory abortions while getting same-sex married.

Anyways, a couple of years ago our nasty state constitutional amendment was making the rounds down here in Texas, so I decided to finally give her the call/plea to vote against it. She has known I'm gay for years of course, but to spare her feelings I have avoided that topic when around her. Turns out that was a big mistake...

We talked for about 2 hours. I opened up to her and told her about how damaging this would be for my family. Sure we couldn't get married as it was anyway, but would this amendment void our personal contracts, wills, living-together agreements, power of attorney aggrements, living wills, joint asset agreements, joint property rights, joint bank accounts, etc.? In short, would this void the several hundred legal documents that we have had drawn up over the last couple of years, (paying lots of money in the process), only to obtain a mere shadow of what a couple of rings gives everyone else?

It didn't seem to be working--frankly all it did was get her good and scared. And so I decided to make it personal. I let her know that her first born son may have everything that was important to him--whether she agreed with it or not--destroyed if she voted "yes", and that it would be, (to put it bluntly), stabbing him in the back. I made it an issue of whether or not family blood means anything...

By the end of the conversation, she was offering to personally testify in court in my favor, if anything happened to me and someone contested my papers to cheat my partner. She made it a point to call me after the vote, (we lost in a massacre of course--it's Texas after all), and let me know she pulled the lever on our side. And make no mistake, this woman is so fundy it's not even funny. Seriously, we could go there and we'd all be here for, like, her immortal eternity just documenting the craziness.

I learned an important lesson through all of this. While it seems like nothing can be done to turn these people on the gay issue--one thing actually can be done. Gay people are these monsters' families--and we absolutely have to let them know it, and make it personal. It won't work every time, but it only needs to work some of the time and we'll all win. They need to know that we aren't just a few verses in their Bibles, but rather that we are human beings; people they know--their sons and daughters, their next door neighbors, their teachers, their gas station attendants, and, yes, even their deacons.

It will work...

(Edited for my crappy spelling)
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Beautiful post. Welcome.
From a fellow teh gay in Texas...
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. great story, Jeffrey
I have often thought that these fundies - if they knew, really KNEW gay people on a personal level, actually talked to them heart-to-heart, would have a difficult time demonizing them as monsters.

LOL I remember that hideous vote here in Texas - I work nights and got a robo-call at noon from some rancher waxing on the dreaded GAY MARRIAGE and urging me to VOTE. I was so pissed that the call woke me up, and incensed that some asshole could robo-call his bigotry to me, that I got up, got dressed and RAN down to vote against that stupid amendment :D
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. RE: Guns --> Democrats should eliminate 'bans' from our rhetoric and laws.

And concentrate on keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and mentally ill through banning the drug war, reducing poverty, and increase mental health treatment.
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