Show Of Hands: How Many Renters Were Handed Cash By The Government...

[MannyGoldstein]

To make up for homes becoming impossible to afford during the inflating bubble? Seems to me that homeowners screwed by the popping of the bubble should only be bailed out if renters screwed by the inflating of the bubble were helped out. Otherwise, a bailout would be unfair.

[DS1]

1. of course it's unfair

moronic shitbags who own homes in an ownership society will always have a leg up

[stevedeshazer]

2. Um,

Why does owning a home make one a 'moronic shitbag'?

[DS1]

4. it doesn't

owning one you can't afford does

[Xipe Totec]

3. Here

Section 8 housing is a federal assistance program that helps low-income Massachusetts residents pay for their housing. Section 8 rental vouchers help Massachusetts tenants pay their rent; Section 8 homeownership assistance helps pay mortgage loans; and project-based Section 8 subsidies help keep rents low in specific private housing developments in Massachusetts. Section 8 is also called the Housing Choice Voucher Program.

http://www.massresources.org/section_8_housing_massachusetts_d.html

[Beaverhausen]

6. there is a large segment of the population in between these two groups

who make too much money to receive Section 8 assistance but not enough to purchase a house.

I'm one of them.

[Xipe Totec]

8. Me heart goes out to you

I am just answering the question as posed by the OP.

However, in Massachussetts renters also get certain tax breaks that are not available to home owners.

I'm not complaining; I think it's fair since home owners get federal tax breaks not available to renters.

[Beaverhausen]

11. They give renters tax breaks in California, too

but again, only if you make less than - I forget - but I think it's around $30,000 - which in most parts of CA isn't enough to purchase a house and barely enough to afford the ridiculously high rents. And I make more than that, so I don't get the tax break.

It's about the middle class squeeze- and this should be a major topic in the presidential campaign.

[notadmblnd]

15. Michigan too...

just like property taxes, they can take a deduction for rent on their state forms, just like the homeowners Homestead property tax credit.

[Xipe Totec]

17. Fortunately, that's not the case in Mass

There is no income limit to the renter's tax break.

I do agree with one thing; the middle class is getting squeezed.

But there are as many middle class home owners that are also up against the ropes.

I think it is very dangerous, divisive, and suspiciously Rovian to pit one part of what's left of the middle class against the other.

This observation is not directed at you, but notice how this issue is becoming a DEMOCRATIC wedge issue and ask yourself:

QUI BONO?

[slackmaster]

26. The income limit for 2007 is $42,770

Pretty much a poverty wage for much of California.

The Renter Assistance benefit decreases with income. The maximum benefit is $347.50, and you have to make no more than $10,691 to qualify for that. If you made $42,770, the benefit is a whopping $15.

http://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/07_forms/07_9000r.pdf?refresh=94100

[scorpiogirl]

31. I'm in the same boat you are and I live in the Bay Area.

Talk about over-priced!

[MannyGoldstein]

7. I Think That's A Little Different - But There's Some Overlap

Section 8 is really for low-income people, rather than people who "missed the bus" on home ownership. But sometimes it probably amounts to the same thing.

[Xipe Totec]

9. Read your original question, which is the one I've answered

perhaps you overstated your case?

[Recursion]

13. Section 8 only can be applied to certain housing though

There's section-8 and non-section-8 units, and at least in DC there was an orgy of tearing down section-8 housing to build non-section-8 housing over the past few years (ie, a not-so-subtle hint to the poor to leave that particular neighborhood).

[happyslug]

18. There are five Types of Section 8 Housing, aimed now at Low-Low-Low Income People

Now the Section 8 program has two HUGE income caps. First is the 30% rule. The Tenant MUST pay 30% of the household TOTAL income for rent and Utilities (Heat, Eater and Electricity only). If the rent is LESS than 30 % of one's income, no subsidy.

Second, to get one Section 8 you MUST be on their list of applicants. Priority is given to people without housing and to "Low-low-low income" people. Congress came up with the Term "Low-Low Income" and "Low-low-Low Income" categories in 1974 when it was found most Housing Authorities gave Subsidies (and housing in Public Housing) to only the highest Income people who were still "low income". People on welfare could NOT get into Public Housing or Section 8 program for their income was to low. The 1974 changes in the Housing law changed that, forcing Public housing and Section 8 Housing to give preference to such "low-low-low Income" families.

This brings up the five types of "Section 8 Housing":

First is "Existing Homes" which is when your local housing Authority pays Landlords the rent in excess of 30% of the Income of the Tenant.

Second, is Section 8 "Substantial Rehabilitation" where a Landlord agrees to rent to low income tenants after accepting money from the local Housing authority to fix up his Rental properties (Rare in last 20 years, but popular before then).

Third, Section 8 New Constructions. This is run by the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) directly. This is where a private company build a set of rental housing and agrees to rent to low income people (Subject to the same rules as Housing authorities, i.e. Low-low-low Income people get priority).

Fourth, Section 8 "Farmer's Home" (Old Name, now Rural something or another, but everyone stills call it Framer's Home). Same as Section 8, New Construction but in Rural areas only.

Fifth, Section 8 Indian Housing, Section 8 housing for Indians Reservations. I am NOT familiar with this type of Section 8 Program for they are no Indians Reservation in my area.

Notice all of them still use the 30% rule. All of them, the total rent must equal "Market Rent" which tends to be "Market Rent" for Existing homes, but a formula for Section 8 New Construction housing (Especially in areas where Market Rents have DROPPED over the last 40 years such as in my area), unless the Local Market Rent is Higher (I have seen some as high as $900 for a small apartment where similar apartments in my areas were going for $400 or less).

No Section 8 Housing has been built since Reagan (Public Housing building basically ended in the 1970s under Nixon in favor of Section 8 New COnstruction). Thus, while the demand for such housing has increased since 1982 (When Reagan said all new Housing will be stopped) none has been built. In the late 1990s several Section 8 housing projects started to exercise their right to end their participation in the Section 8 program and convert to market rent, but that was delayed by Clinton. The right to convert still exists, but a system of Notice to tenants were set up and a way this could be prevented if the tenants objected. This was successful in my area (which really did NOT participate in the boom of the 1990s) but was done elsewhere in the nation. Overall a drop in the Number of Housing units available for low income people.

My point is simple, the subsidies to low income people for rent has been on the Decline since the last positive changes in 1974. Nixon started it, Ford Continued it (The post Watergate Congress stepped in and improved the situation), but Reagan went back to freezing Public Housing Funding. IT exists, but no where near the level of need.

[Xipe Totec]

19. no where near the level of need - I agree

go back and read the OP's question, and tell me where my post did not directly answer her question.

[happyslug]

20. I was explain the Section 8 Program, people sounded confused about ti.

Given all the GOP propaganda since the 1970s about Section 8 and Public Housing (Including the laws permitting eviction of the FAMILIES of someone who is arrested for Drugs), I wanted to clarify the Section 8 program and the five types of Programs that make up the "Section 8" program.

[Xipe Totec]

21. In that case, thank you!

More information is way better than the alternative. :hi:

I guess I was already getting a bit defensive. :blush:

[Neecy]

5. handed cash how?

I lived in San Francisco all through the 1990's, when housing prices began going through the roof. I had rent control but I don't consider that was a 'handout' - my two bedroom apartment still cost almost sixteen hundred a month, and that was *with* rent control.

Gee, if someone was handing out cash I sure wish I knew about it!

[sam sarrha]

10. i need help finding the location of 'Fair' in this Fascist Rat Bastard administration..

[Captain Hilts]

12. Not even a tax break on rental payments! nt

[Gormy Cuss]

14. Renters are getting screwed by the popping bubble too.

The subset of foreclosures that were investor-owned rentals cause evictions of tenants who have been paying their rent on time all along. Since no one has much sympathy for investor owners, this side effect seems inevitable.

Lower and moderate income owner-occupant homeowners who go through foreclosures typically become renters, exerting more pressure on the rental market and generally causing rents to increase if the rate of foreclosures is high in a community. Now if by "bailout" what the government does is put the brakes on adjustable rates, presumably most owner-occupant homeowners can avoid foreclosure and stay out of the rental market.

Unless there is a localized market collapse, the cost of rents will not adjust downward by any significant amount, so there's not much to reimburse renters with in most cases for the run-up. There are other factors involved and I could go on, but my point is it's not that simple.

[AnnieBW]

16. I Feel Bad For the People Victimized By Sub-Primes

But NOBODY handed me anything when I was struggling to make $1600 a month mortgage payments while my husband was laid off for 10 months back in 2001-02. At least we were able to refinance our way out of bankruptcy - eventually.

People, when you buy a house remember two words - "FIXED RATE". I don't care if it's higher payments. FIXED RATE. Insist on it. Best advice my parents ever gave me when I bought my first condo.

[Xipe Totec]

22. ARMs should be outlawed; they are usury. nt

[AnnieBW]

23. Abso-fraggin-lutely!

I agree 100%.

[Lance_Boyle]

24. that's a bit simplistic

ARMS make perfect sense in some situations, like for people who know they will only live in a certain area for a certain amount of time, who will sell the house before the adjustment kicks in. Why would you take on a 30-year fixed rate mortgage on a house you only need to own for 3 years? An ARM with an adjustment beginning after 3 years is perfect for that scenario.

But, in other cases, they certainly can be inappropriate.

[Xipe Totec]

30. If you're only going to be there for three years, rent

But setting that aside, your point is that it's okay to use an ARM, as long as you can dodge the consequences before they kick in.

In other words, use it as legalized gambling.

Three years is a long time. You may think you can walk away from a bad mortgage by selling the house, but if the housing market tanks on you, you may be stuck there longer than you anticipated. Worse, the house could end up being worth less than the mortgage and then you're up the proverbial creek with no means of propulsion.

That's essentially the situation people are in right now; they can's sell and they can't afford to stay.

Simplistic? I don't think so. ARMs used to be illegal. Laws had to be changed to permit them to occur.

Judge that wisdom by the consequences.

[bobbolink]

25. If people who were homeowners get Section 8, while homeless people CAN'T get Section 8,

Then there's likely to be a war between poor and muddleclass!!!

It's like muddleclass people getting Medicaid, when really poor people can't.

BASTA!

edited to say: If they were "handed cash", then something is REALLY wrong!

[flashl]

27. In past few years, in the gulfcoast

with stagnant wages, after several hurricanes, median rent went from 595 to over 895 almost over night and there is no end in sight.

[sandnsea]

28. If the rental market gets flooded, rents will rise more

Helping people stay in their homes will help the rental market too.

[The Straight Story]

29. I was, years ago

via welfare and HEAP, etc. I was also helped by private charities (ala the salvation army and such).

The money they gave me went to my landlord which went to the bank. So I was bailed out (this was back in the early-mid 90's).

And now I am looking at having my home foreclosed on in Ohio (I live in CA) - I almost rented it out to a few people, and if I had then the if the govt bailed me out they would be bailing them out (and the gov probably would help me, but I know in the long run I cannot afford to keep the house anyway).

So renters ARE bailed out when you bail out the people that are buying the place.