Positive Comments? Hillary Backers Tell Us What You Like About Her Iraq War/Iran Positions

[Blackhatjack]

Hillary gets a lot of criticism here for her votes and positions on the Iraq War and regarding Iran.

If you back Hillary, without criticizing another candidate, tell us what you like about Hillary's votes and positions on the Iraq War and Iran. Why has the path she chose been the right one? If you believe she made a mistake in any way, tell us in positive terms how she has rectified it.

Again this is not about comparing her to other candidates, because if she becomes the Democratic Nominee there won't be any other candidates with which to compare her. Likewise, if she becomes our next President, it will just be her making all the decisions on the behalf of all Americans.

Consider this your open mike to make your case for Hillary.

Thanks.

[fenriswolf]

1. *waits with baited breath

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. O_O

all agog here...

[shadowknows69]

3. Someone pass the melted butter

:popcorn:

[JeffR]

4. Here ya go!

:popcorn:

[BeHereNow]

5. Here you go...

Try adding some liquid Bragg, it's really good on the pop-corn.
Oh, a little garlic salt is a great addtion too!
:popcorn:
BHN

[WillyT]

24. Have You Ever Tried Brewer's Yeast Instead Of Salt ???

It's great!

Really!!!

:hi:

[BeHereNow]

25. I simply must try it!

I am a p-corn addict.
Try the liquid Bragg too- it's wonderful on pop corn!
Thanks for the Brewers yeast recommend- I appreciate
the dialogue while we wait.... and wait.... and wait.....
BHN

[scarletwoman]

37. Spike and dill weed! (do they still make Spike?) Anyway, dill weed on popcorn is AWESOME!

(now I'm hungry...)

[BeHereNow]

39. Yum, dill and Spike! Always a winning combo!

YES! They still make Spike!
Now go try the liquid Bragg too!
I swear, a few spinkles is HEAVEN to the taste buds!
BHN

[Emit]

43. Mmmm...Spike on Avocados!

stuff it in pita bread with some mushrooms and cheddar cheese, a few seconds in the microwave, yummy!

[BeHereNow]

51. We may have to get married...

You just described one of my FAVORITE midnight snack-a-roos.
BHN

[daninthemoon]

40. What is this spike? Never heard of it. Know what's in it, or can you

describe it?

[Emit]

47. A little bit of everything. Spike's Seasoning Ingredients contains:

Spike's Seasoning Ingredients contains:
Salt and sea salt crystals, special high flavor yeast, hydrolyzed vegetable protein, mellow toasted onion, onion powder, orange powder, soy flour, celery leaf powder, celery root powder, garlic powder, dill, kelp, Indian curry, horseradish, ripe white pepper, orange and lemon peel, summer savory, mustard flower, sweet green and red peppers, parsley flakes, tarragon, rosehips, saffron, mushroom powder, parsley powder, spinach powder, tomato powder, sweet Hungarian paprika, celery powder, cayenne pepper, plus a delightful herbal bouquet of the best Greek oregano, French sweet basil, French marjoram, French rosemary, and Spanish thyme.

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Q-A/AccentSpike.htm

[scarletwoman]

50. Here's the website:

http://www.modernfearn.com/index_files/page0001.htm


SPIKE ® ALL-PURPOSE SEASONING
A delicious blend of 39 exotic herbs, vegetables and spices with the perfect amount of sea and earth salt crystals.

[daninthemoon]

62. Cool, thanks guys. Just one more question: Is it a health food store

item, or regional, or mainly online?

[scarletwoman]

70. Should be able to find it in any "health food" or "whole food" kind of store. (nt)

[mzmolly]

216. I bought spike at my regular supermarket.

:hi:

[John Q. Citizen]

48. Spike is good. So's yeast. Never tried dill weed on popcorn, i'll have to do that.

What I used to like to do is to toss in some serrano or jalapeno pepper seeds into the hot oil just before you add the popping corn , and the whole batch comes out spicy hot.

[scarletwoman]

66. The dill weed idea came from a long ago experiment. Back in the 60's I had some hippie friends who

had "gone back to the land". A whole bunch of us city hippies used to drive out to their farm and camp out and party and stuff...

Anyway, one autumn they had a massive surplus of popping corn. Also many guests with the munchies. So we rigged up several big kettles over an open fire (outdoors) and popped gigantic batches of popcorn, experimenting with every different kind of seasoning we could think of. Dill weed ended up being the biggest taste test winner.

:hippie:
sw

[CoffeeCat]

61. I like to put taco seasoning on my popcorn...

...it's very salty and very bad for you--but so yummy.

[Blackhatjack]

128. I bet Cajun seasoning would work....

[Prophet 451]

161. Mild chilli powder's good too n/t

[jgraz]

212. pop it in coconut oil and add hot curry powder

Best shit evah.

[Whisp]

163. you know what I find great with theatre popcorn?

those little sour mooshy candies, throw some in the bag and makes a nice tasty contrast combo.

[PassingFair]

6. Kick!

:shrug:

[BeHereNow]

7. Crickets...

hard to defend the indefensible I guess...
:popcorn:
BHN

[Fredda Weinberg]

8. War is an issue, but when I started, the point was peace

I don't stand in the street handing out fliers for fun - but HRC was positioning herself for a term after Bill and NY state is a traditional launching point.

Since then she's charmed upstate and calmed local fears that she would be a polarizing figure. Her stance on Iraq, Iran and other foreign policy issues is shaped by this state's public opinion, which is decidedly conservative outside of my metropolitan area.

The way I see it, she's making a careful, considered transition w/o announcing her intentions. She hasn't disappointment me yet and she's earned my trust until she has the authority to make pronouncements of her own.

[BeHereNow]

10. Would you mind translating that for me?

What, exactly, did you just say?
In simple terms, please?
:wtf:

[Fredda Weinberg]

30. Simply put, HRC was my candidate long before we invaded Iraq

and we could use more strategic thinkers. As far as her vague public pronouncements, I remember the delicate dance a presidential candidate must negotiate on the way to gaining authority. The less said, the better.

Leadership is whether we follow. I choose to because of HRC's track record in my state.

[BeHereNow]

35. So...she advocated your state bombing the fuck out of who, Wisconsin?

If I'm not mistaken, the OP was asking her supporters about her
stance on war mongering?
So I guess my question would be, regarding your state,
what is your feeling about her stand on Iraq and Iran
and bombing Iran, if she feels it necessary, in particular?
What states has NY bombed again?
Sorry, I am not familiar with the NY versus other US states history.
Also, where ARE your other Hill-Billie supporters on this thread?
WE are all waiting SO patiently!
BHN

[Fredda Weinberg]

56. When you are rude, you don't deserve civil discourse. Good day n/t

[BeHereNow]

58. When you are vague, there IS no discourse...

BHN

[Laurab]

218. I'm in the same state but haven't seen anything in HRC's track record

that impresses me all that much.

It's interesting, the reasoning above reminds me of Stephen Colbert's line from the WH Correspondent's dinner - something along the lines of "I stand by this man, he believes the same thing on Wednesday as he did on Sunday, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENED ON TUESDAY". To not address the two awful votes in the response, and to say someone has been your candidate since long ago, just reminded me of that, and the "loyal Bushies". It's kind of scary.

[hedgehog]

73. That track record would be using NYS to make tracks from the Senate

back to the White House?

[Fredda Weinberg]

101. It was good enuf for Bobby Kennedy. Remember? n/t

[hedgehog]

110. I remember Bobby. Bobby was a hero of mine. Believe me,

Hillary ain't no Bobby.

[Fredda Weinberg]

113. I respectfully disagree. I remember RFK as well n/t

[Mme. Defarge]

182. Touché!

[Atman]

144. That is...uh...I'm just speechless.

You support her because she's been masterful at NOT TELLING YOU what she'd do if you elect her?

:crazy:

Yikes. Really, was that parody? Well, yours was the first response even attempting to respond to the OP's question, I give you that much.

.

[blm]

160. Biggest problem for me is that HRC WAS a candidate, Hillary2008, the last 7 years

and undermined other Dems who were sticking their necks out to oppose Bush during that entire time as part of her 2008 strategy.

[leftchick]

145. triangulation

:crazy:

[Blackhatjack]

12. How do you feel about her votes so far, and the positions she has taken thus far?

She does have a record to run on, and she has made some positions known on these two issues I raised.

[Fredda Weinberg]

33. I have listened to her explanations, but at the time, I found her votes

infuriating.

[JeffR]

13. If I read you right

you're talking about her responsibility to NY residents, as opposed to being the nominee?

[Fredda Weinberg]

32. That's how I ultimately judged her. Not on her capacity as a

private attorney or even First Lady. She had to run, win and produce her own track record.

[JeffR]

74. OK

Thanks for the clarification.

[hedgehog]

57. Are you suggesting that if she very, very slowly transisitons to an

anti-war stance without announcing her intentions, that we folks upstate won't notice? Look, we may live in the cities with the heaviest snow fall in the country, but that doesn't mean we're THAT stupid!

[Fredda Weinberg]

67. I lived in Rochester for a while ... upstaters ain't stupid, but relatively

conservative, even in Susan B Anthony's old stomping grounds. But you gotta give HRC credit - she did well in her re-election, even upstate.

[FREEWILL56]

162. Huh? Where's my shovel to dig my way outa this bull crap?

[rucky]

171. Is she running for president of New York?

or just trying to keep a somewhat consistent record?

I think this may be why Senators don't get elected president that often. Sometimes interests of the state supercede the interests of the nation, which make a voting record look inconsistent. (see Biden's vote on the Bankrupcy Bill).

I really do trust her to do the right thing, but with so many other candidates willing and able to be upfront about their Iraq policy - and keep it consistent - I'm wondering how long she'll be able to stay out of that box.

[Blackhatjack]

9. Everyone deserves the opportunity to make their case & persuade others to their candidate's view...

Having heard over and over how Hillary is bashed unmercifullly here at DU on her votes and positions regarding the Iraq War and Iran, I thought I would give those same Hillary backers the opportunity to make their case and maybe persuade the rest of us to their point of view.

But when you no longer have to respond to bashing, that means you have to provide positive evidence why Hillary was right on her votes and positions.

Here is the opportunity, and we will listen....

[BeHereNow]

11. Yes, I'm listening. Please use english.

Cryptic rhetoric sort of goes over my head.
BHN
:popcorn:

[Ewellian]

14. shhhhhh,

be vewy vewy quiet!

[daninthemoon]

17. Oh no! Now you scared the timid forest creature. Now we'll never

get an answer. Oh wait! Is that an answer over there? Nope, none over there. Is one under here? Nope. Gotta be here somewhere.

[AmBlue]

130. ROTFLMAO!!!

stop that!! I can't listen when I'm laughing so hard.....
:rofl:
sorry.... back to poker face....
listening hard...

[AmBlue]

131. and Welcome to DU!!

:hi:

[Blackhatjack]

15. Oh come on now, Where are the Hillary Backers? This thread is for them....

This is very disappointing. WHere could they be????

[BeHereNow]

18. Where, oh where, have the Hill-Billies gone? Where, oh where, can they be?

With their lies cut short
and their "truth" shown wrong,
Oh where, oh where can they be?

Maybe at an emergency CFR/Trilateral Conmmission meeting
to figure out how to deal with the (us) usless eaters standing in the
way of the NWO?

BHN

[leftynyc]

154. Can't imagine why they wouldn't want to converse

with you. I mean, I just can't imagine.

[Blackhatjack]

16. Could we get a few Recs & Kicks To Keep It Page One To Give People A Chance To Respond?

Thanks.

[BeHereNow]

20. Yes, my darling! I'm simply on pins and needles!

I can't WAIT to be enlightened!
My world is so dark and dreary as an informed citizen...
or in the words of Blanche Dubois...
"I dont want realism, I WAHNT illusion!!!!!!!"
Now where'd I put that damned papah lanteurrrn....
The light, the light...it huuuuhrts mah eyes...

BHN

[gateley]

42. OT -- Is your screen name because of the title of Ram Das's book? nt

[BeHereNow]

53. The one and only...n/t

bhn

[Mme. Defarge]

183. Still reading, but

here's a K & R!

[senseandsensibility]

19. seriously I think most of them hang out in GDP

you might want to cross post it there.

[Blackhatjack]

22. I am surprised because when Hillary takes a bashing here, they all arrive on schedule it seems...

[RufusTFirefly]

44. I think there's a special alarm that notifies them in those particular cases...

Think of Rufus T. Firefly at the beginning of Duck Soup, the greatest anti-war film ever made.

[Blackhatjack]

72. There is so much truth in Duck Soup, just like in all great comedy...

[RufusTFirefly]

98. Unlike so-called "anti war" films that often wind up glorifying it...

... Duck Soup shows war for what it really is: pointless, needless, and stupid.

[Blackhatjack]

118. The dialogue is so cutting, and so appropriate for today...

Of course Bush would not get the message. It would go right over his head.

[RufusTFirefly]

125. "Run out and find me a four-year-old child." n/t

[Blashyrkh]

92. "Oh, I was just thinking about all the years I've wasted collecting stamps". Great movie.

And it's 49 years older than me.

[MyNameGoesHere]

158. I think even a politely worded flamebait

just doesn't cut it anymore. Thanks for playing though, please accept these lovely parting gifts.

[LostInAnomie]

21. Kicking

:popcorn:

[Blackhatjack]

23. Thanks!

[BeHereNow]

26. Number 6, as I wait, and wait, and wait....

For heaven's sake!
Where have they all gone?
BHN

[Blackhatjack]

27. You hang out an open mic for Hillary Backers and....where are they?????

[Hoof Hearted]

119. It's more like an open noose. I haven't picked anyone yet but if I had

I wouldn't reply here.

Why? None of the bashers are interested. It would be a total waste of time.

I'm pretty disheartened by all the Hillary, Edwards and Obama bashers. I like all three of them. I'd be damn proud to see any of them as President.

[leftynyc]

155. I'm in total agreement with you

Any of the leading three would proudly get my vote. As for whey Hillary supporters aren't flocking here to this thread - perhaps they are smart enough not to waste their time.

[Mme. Defarge]

186. So,

What is your answer to the O.P. question?

[Islander Expat]

28. Any moment now one of Hills supporters will be here to explain everything to us

how wrong we all must be...

[Blackhatjack]

29. 239 Page Views .... And Not A One A Hillary Backer???

[Islander Expat]

38. Well they like her but they really can't tell you why....

it has something to do with her being so "electable"

[CoffeeCat]

68. Yup...

If you're willing to look past the warmongering, the lack of opinion
on our Constitution being shredded to hell, her votes that pave the
way for further neocon crimes and the fact that she votes like Joe Lieberman---
she's quite the catch!

[Islander Expat]

81. Not to mention its so trendy to have former first ladies run for office

Imelda started that rage. Does Hill collect shoes too?


(edited to dot "T's" and cross "I's")

[Richard Steele]

31. K&R

[creeksneakers2]

34. Part 1 - Iran

Europe and the US have tried to negotiate a solution for the problems with Iran for years. Nothing worked without diplomatic pressure. Putting some lower intensity heat on Iran, like sanctions, could bring about a peaceful resolution.

I know that there's no evidence that Iran is developing nuclear weapons but they are not at the stage yet where that would start and evidence would be created. There are plenty of reasons to suspect that's their aim. The best solution would be a negotiated compromise that would allow Iran to continue to develop nuclear power with adequate checks to make sure they aren't developing nukes. That's the same thing other countries that develop nuclear power have to do.

Kyl-Lieberman did not authorize war with Iran. Nothing in it did. Condi Rice said yesterday that Kyl-Lieberman doesn't authorize war. There is no way after that that Bush could ever claim Kyl-Lieberman authorizes war. There is no way Condi would say that if their was any possibility Bush might want to use Kyl-Lieberman later.

It was a tough vote for her and she took a gutsy path that she knew would make her unpopular. She must have known her vote was the better choice, as its turned out to be.

[OzarkDem]

41. If Kyl Lieberman didn't authorize war

then what did Hillary think it did and why was it even necessary to pass it?

[creeksneakers2]

59. Put diplomatic pressure on Iran n/t

[OzarkDem]

76. No law was needed for that

you don't have to offically label someone a terrorist to justify diplomatic pressure.

[creeksneakers2]

82. Validates cutting them off from financial networks, etc.

Sends a message to Iran that the US means business.

[EFerrari]

105. For what? The IAEA says no nuke threat.

On the contrary, WE are sending special ops and foreign fighters INTO Iran to provoke them.

[creeksneakers2]

153. That's not what the IAEA says

The IAEA says no evidence of an existing effort to develop a nuclear weapon. It doesn't rule out Iran trying later. They'd have to wait for later anyway until they can process uranium to a sufficient purity.

Last I read, the IAEA was still negotiating with Iran for more inspection ability. El Baradei does not trust Iran.

[EFerrari]

175. It can't rule out Iran trying later -- they are weapons inspectors

not Ms. Clio. El Baradei's job isn't to trust anyone.

[leftchick]

202. You really need to watch this

http://www.therealnews.com/web/index.php?thisdataswitch=0&thisid=597&thisview=item

seriously

[Atman]

146. Except for that under the Patriot Act, it absolutely DID authorize war

The definition of the guard as a terrorist organization is tacit authorization for war under the PA. The PA give Bush the authority to do anything he needs to do to protect and defend America when he discovers known terrorists. That is what so many seem to not get. The K-L didn't have to expressly say "This bill gives The President the authority to launch a war against Iran." That was done through the terrorist designation. Period. There really isn't any wiggle room on that one. It's just a fact.

.

[creeksneakers2]

152. That isn't true

There was a bill that passed shortly after 9/11 that authorized Bush to go after terrorist groups BUT ONLY those involved in 9/11.

[Blackhatjack]

45. 'She must have known her vote was the better choice, as its turned out to be.' WHY???

Why was her vote on Kyl/Leiberman 'the better choice'??

What were the positive results from her voting that way?

[creeksneakers2]

60. Because the alleged risks weren't there

We'll see if the diplomatic pressure works. At least we have a strategy now, and one that doesn't just include war as a solution.

[fenriswolf]

169. we have been

putting diplomatic pressure on iran for quite awhile and have also embargoed them for quite awhile too.

[YankmeCrankme]

178. That really isn't diplomatic pressure.

Basically, we gave them an ultimatum and as they resist the ultimatum we use economic pressures (sanctions) that we have basically been doing to them since the shah was disposed. What we are doing, in reality, is pressuring every other country that does business with Iran to stop doing business with them. Some give in, some don't.

[John Q. Citizen]

100. You know what I don't understand about Kly/Lieberman why they are designating

the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as terrrorists.

What civilians are they claiming they purposely targeted with death and injury for political gain?

It says nothing about that at all in the amendment.

I really hate when they start messing around with the language like that.

[Blackhatjack]

120. I want a Hillary Backer to explain her thinking why designating the IRG as terrorists helps?

The Iranian Revolutionary Guard is part of the Iranian Government.

We have declared war on terrorists. How can be we at war with 'a part of the Iranian Government?"

[CoffeeCat]

46. Kyl/Lieberman gives the President...

the authority to do whatever he damn well pleases to Iran.

Kyl/Lieberman officially defined an arm of the Iranian government a "terrorist organization."

Kyl/Lieberman gave Bush the open door that he wants and needs--in order to
go to war whenever he so chooses.

Kyl/Lieberman doesn't specifically mandate war---but neither did the Iraq war vote!

Clearly, Kyl/Lieberman was a step toward war.

[creeksneakers2]

63. No. Kyl-Lieberman doesn't do that

Rice's statements prove it.

[Lucinda]

75. It's a wasted argument. Even with Rice on the record they'll still scream.

I have no objections to her K/L vote. I don't want congress to sit and do nothing because of what junior may or may not try to do.

[Blackhatjack]

78. I'm confused. What does Condi Rice's statements have to do with a Sense of Senate Resolution?

Rice has been cut out of the loop on most matters you would expect her to be leading on.

The Senate passed this resolution --does it not mean what the Senate determined it meant?

I don't read it the same way you do, but maybe that is one of the reasons we do not agree that Hillary has made the best choices in regard to the Iraq War and Iran.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blackhatjack]

87. I was asking a legitimate question. Do you have an answer?

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blackhatjack]

102. I would really like to understand what Hillary backers think about the OP Questions I raised.

I may not agree with you, but I would like to know what you think.

Hillary could end up the Dem Nominee. If I am going to vote for her in the General Election against the Republican Nominee, help me out here. Give me some convincing arguments supporting her votes and positions on the Iraq War and Iran.

[creeksneakers2]

106. Yeah. Post # 99

[Blackhatjack]

117. So you believe that Condi Rice 'made a statement against interest' on behalf of Bush?

I will grant you that if Condi Rice occupied the position of Sec of State as that office has traditionally been held, with traditional powers, that could be some evidence of a statement of against interest that could be implied against the President.

But Condi has been nothing but a figurehead. She has had no authority, and generally ignored on all issues related to conducting diplomacy.

I don't see her statements on the Kyl/Leiberman Resolution passed by the Senate to be much of a restraint on this Administration if they decide to attack Iran.

[CoffeeCat]

80. Because Condi said so??

Oh my.

Honey, you need a nice cup of cocoa, warm blanket and someone
who can gently explain to you that you're living in a dreamland
festooned with prancing ponies, flowery cupcakes and neocon Secretaries
of State who tell the truth when it comes to matters of war.

[creeksneakers2]

99. I'll try to make this as simple as possible for you while I enjoy

my cocoa.

Suppose you occupied a dwelling and the most dishonest person in town came over for a visit. He asks you for a drink and you go to the kitchen. When you come back with the drink you notice that your purse is missing. You ask the most dishonest person in town if he took your purse and he replies, "Yes. I did."

Would you believe the dishonest person? Would you think that since they are dishonest they might be lying and they actually didn't take your purse? Of course not. The dishonest person made a statement in conflict with his own interests. He has no motive to give a false confession.

Likewise with Rice and the Kyl-Lieberman amendment. If the Bush cabal had any desire to use Kyl-Lieberman as a pretext for war, they'd remain silent about its power or claim that it actually is an authorization. They wouldn't admit its not an authorization because they never would be able to come back later and say it was.

Condi's admission was made against the Bush cabal's interest. She has no motive to admit the resolution has no force unless that's her true opinion.

[CoffeeCat]

111. Do you actually think they need "authorization"?

You need to really listen to what Condi is saying.

She said K/L is not an authorization for war (...and I never
said it was authorization for war--it's part of the build up just like
they did with Iraq).

Are you forgetting something? These bastards don't need "authorization" to
go to war with Iran! They'll make that decision when they're ripe for
another round--but they most certainly aren't waiting on something as
prosaic as "authorization".

Of course she can say that, because it's true! That doesn't mean that
they aren't planning on going to war with Iran.

When they go to war with Iran, they will use K/L as a punchline. Bush
will give a speech and the mention of K/L will be only a line or two, "As
we make this most serious of decisions to go to war with Iran, we must
remember that Congress declared the military arm of the Iran government
a terrorist nation. Even Congress understands that terrorists must
not evade responsibility."

It's a stepping stone toward war with Iran.

[creeksneakers2]

157. Bush does those things whether Hillary votes for the resolution

or not.

[FREEWILL56]

168. Now that the self patting on the back has paused,

this causes me to raise some questions then.
You say bush will do as he pleases anyway so:
1> Why doesn't hillary support their impeachment for acting on their own?
2> Why was it so important that K/LIE be brought before the senate in a hurried manor that she needed to vote on it if so much of an insignificant thing?
>3 Why did she feel it necessary to agree with bush war policies by giving her yea vote and in agreeing with him, thus letting bush know he has her support and approval for going on 'his own' with war plans against Iran? This seems to mean that if it doesn't give him permission for war with Iran because he already has it that she has given her approval and she does have to answer for it.
edit to add:
Everyone that voted yea to that K/LIE crap needs to answer to us, the people, for it whether they be Democrats or republicans. This violates international laws to make these plans of war she gave the war president the thumbs up on. I'd say it violates our laws to, but they change or reinterpret our laws to suit with hillary's apparent approvals.

[CoffeeCat]

174. Yes, BUT

...and this is a big BUT---Bush uses those votes
as building blocks in marketing campaigns that sell
war to the American.

Voting to identify Iran as a "terrorist organization"
bolsters the neocon rationales for going to war with Iran.

Furthermore, failing to speak out and call these neocons
on the carpet is irresponsible and unpatriotic. Every member
of Congress understands very well what the PNAC/neocon agenda
is and what these bastards are doing to our country and its
citizens. The know it's all a lie--and their silence is
destroying America.

Hillary Clinton knew damn well when Bush went to
war with IRAQ that Bush's reasons were lies. She
knew it better than anyone, because the neocons
wrote her husband a letter--begging for war with
Iraq. President Clinton denied them. The neocons
returned after 9/11--wanting the same war. Hillary
Clinton--who knew exactly what was happening, stood
on the Senate floor and leveraged the idea of war
with Iraq. Not only did she add fuel to the neocon
fire---she said absolutely nothing to the American
people about the neocons and how they'd been shopping
around this war for years.

Hillary is an abomination.

[YankmeCrankme]

165. Unfortunately, Ms Rice's opinion on what that bill authorizes

isn't the final word for a unitary executive. Bush has all final determinations of what the bill authorizes. Do you think her opinion will supersede Bush's?

[Mme. Defarge]

188. Took the words

right outa my mouth!

[daninthemoon]

89. The way I undertand it, they already gave him authority to chase

terrorists and state sponsors of terror. Kyl-LIEberman labels Iran's revolutionary guard as terrorists. Seems like a straight line to me, no matter what rice says. Besides, this bunch has quite a habit of changing their stories, often in spite of filmed/taped evidence of previous statements.

[Blashyrkh]

97. How can you use the words of a proven liar to justfiy anything?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[creeksneakers2]

64. Anybody who has nukes is a threat. n/t

[BeHereNow]

69. Ummm...so Israel and the US are a threat?

so how does that justify the invasion and occupation of Iraq
or the pre-emptive strike supported by MS Hillary against Iran?
Seems to me, using logic considering your statement, that the
US and Israel are the threat...
Care to clarify?
BHN

[creeksneakers2]

103. The US and Israel are threats

Just not to us. Iran views both as terrible threats.

Israel could wind up under different hands some day and they then might be a threat to us too. The fewer countries that have nukes, the better off we are.

[Mme. Defarge]

189. Like Pakistan?

[YankmeCrankme]

164. Good explanations, but Iran is already a signatory of NPT

Therefore, all checks are already in place to monitor them developing nuclear weapons. The only countries that developed nuclear weapons recently have been non signatories of the NPT; Israel, Pakistan and India. Iran doesn't need US approval to develop nuclear power.

You believe what Ms Rice has to say about what the amendment authorizes or doesn't authorize? Considering Bush doesn't abide by any such restraints, in fact his whole presidency is an antithesis of abiding by restraints, why would you believe he wouldn't use this to justify an Iranian attack?

It wasn't a gutsy path she took, it was actually the easier of the two. I disagree that the amendment was a good piece of legislation. Diplomacy isn't about making non negotiable demands, it's about give and take. Declaring another country's military terrorists doesn't advance diplomacy in the least.

[creeksneakers2]

207. ElBaradei and Iran have made good progress toward an

inspection agreement, but they aren't done yet.

"On the issue of nuclear verification, Dr. ElBaradei said that Iran´s "active cooperation and transparency" are key factors in resolving outstanding issues over the country´s nuclear ambitions. He added that he intends to report on the implementation of the work plan agreed in August between the IAEA and Iran to the Agency´s Board of Governors meeting in November."

ElBaradei before the United Nations - 10/30/07

http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/News/2007/ungasupport.html

[YankmeCrankme]

221. To me that shows the system is working.

Of course, we want cooperation and transparency and that is what should be what they work towards. Iran has their own issues about that too. Ones we have no ideas about, I'm sure. I think trust is a major one. When you have such a belligerent US threatening you there might be doubt about the sincerity of the UN and IAEA. That is something that needs to be reconciled to both parties satisfaction. Working within that framework seems the best chance.

I'm more concerned about the NPT nations that have nuclear weapons, that there is no oversight for, and NPT nations that are continuing the research and development of more nuclear weapons than I am about Iran.

[CoffeeCat]

36. As Judge Smails from "Caddyshack" once said...

[creeksneakers2]

52. Part 2 - Iraq

While the parties have been fighting over what to do next in Iraq, Iraq has wandered off and done what it wanted to do. Violence is down. I didn't believe it for a long time but lots of journalists are over there and somebody would have spoken up by now if that wasn't the case.

I don't think its the surge that's cooling off the violence. Wars can end just by people getting tired of killing each other. Those who lived by the sword probably died by the sword by now, or they soon will. Neighborhoods are cleansed. The war is settling itself.

The Bush cabal approached the peace from the wrong end since the beginning. They tried to build a government from the top down. It had no base of support. Since then, the central government has been allowed to decline in influence. Local leaders and local militias now control large areas. The tribal leaders, religious leaders that Iraqis respect at the local level are the ones who can keep the peace, especially with the help of their militias.

That's why violence is down.

Bush promised to take the first 30,000 troops out of Iraq next year. I believe him because the pressure from the rest of the GOP to do it will be incredible. They won't go through another election cycle without claiming some progress on the war.

If 30,000 come out and the violence stays down, and I think it will, it would be very popular for them to remove more troops.

By the time Hillary takes office there will only be residual problems in Iraq. Leaving some troops behind to tidy up might make it possible for us to get out of there without leaving a disaster.

I know its religious doctrine here that only bad outcomes can happen in Iraq but I regard certainty of the future as an error no matter which future is predicted. The Bush cabal made the mistake of believing they knew for sure what would happen next and everything would turn out great. Its equally naive to be certain that only bad outcomes can arrive.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[creeksneakers2]

65. That's a good explanation too

but the destination of it is the same. If the war ends on its own, we can leave.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emilyg]

115. You are rude.

[BeHereNow]

126. Wanna relate your statement to the content of my post?

The truth is a bitch, eh?
BHN

[OzarkDem]

79. You * believe * Bush? About Iraq?

about anything?

Astounding.

[creeksneakers2]

209. I don't trust Bush

What Bush says he'll do takes a small role in my opinion about what Bush will actually do in the future. I'm relying mostly on my own political analysis, which says the GOP is going to do anything possible to claim some success in Iraq next year.

I think they pulled out a brigade today.

[Blackhatjack]

86. How does all this opinion and prognosticating relate to votes and positions taken by Hillary?

In all honesty, she does have positions she has pronounced. She does have a voting record.

Why are her positions the best ones? Why were her votes right?

[BeHereNow]

88. Damn you! How dare you repeat the ORIGINAL question...

which NO ONE has yet to answer!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :popcorn:
BHN

[CoffeeCat]

96. You won't get an answer....

I've asked this over and over again.

Not one of them has an answer.

Usually, when someone picks a candidate--they're able to defend their
candidates' votes and express a cogent understanding of their candidates'
votes and views.

You rarely hear that from a Hillary supporter.

I see them posting poll after poll after poll...and this just smacks of
marketing via posting. Obviously, part of Hillary's strategy is to
propagate the notion that she's the inevitable nominee--the frontrunner.
People vote for a winner.

I see many people propping up "electability" and posting these polls,
but I never see them defending her positions or her votes.

[John Q. Citizen]

109. "Its equally naive to be certain that only bad outcomes can arrive." Unless of

course you are one of the one million dead people or the many more injured, or a member of their family.

Otherwise, just the US leaving would be a completely wonderful outcome that we could really celebrate.

In fact, we should invade another country so that eventually, if we are lucky, we can leave and have another really good outcome.

That and the two trillion dollars we owe. That is a certainly good out come as well.

What were we gonna do with all that money anyway, except to blow it up, it might as well have been in Iraq, right?

Yes, that would be a great outcome, all right. I can see why you think that.

Do you have a link to where bush promised to take 30,000 troops out next year?

[creeksneakers2]

156. A good outcome as opposed to a blood bath

I never said the war was worth it or a good idea.

Google Bush 30,000 troops.

[FREEWILL56]

213. Take office?

Yes it would have to be a case of stealing as nobody elected her. If it's so nice, by the time you say her highness does her own coup, then no troops or combat missions will be necessary. That's not what her highness has said and your attempt to twist some fantasy with her as the queen into a reality doesn't fly with the majority of Democrats let alone get her the pResidency.
Also posing her as a choice between her and bush is idiotic as bush isn't running and she has no merits to run on that you have shown us as of yet.

[youthere]

54. *snicker*

[Stuckinthebush]

77. My god! I can't believe this thread

It is very enlightening.

Where are the Hillary folks?

[BeHereNow]

83. Sometimes...

The question IS the answer.
BHN

[Stuckinthebush]

90. Dude

You're getting all Zen on me!

:D

[BeHereNow]

95. Make that "dude-ette"

:hi:
BHN

[Stuckinthebush]

148. Oops!

Dudette! :D

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stuckinthebush]

94. It's the college football mentality

Team Hillary! Yay!

[Mojorabbit]

141. My worst fear

is that she gets the nomination. * then decides to do shock and awe part 2. He then can say she voted to designate the guard as a terrorist group. Isn't she against terrorists? Hasn't she said Iran needs to be prevented from having the bomb? We lose the election.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WillyT]

104. Oh... I Dunno... I Got Some Great Popcorn Recipes Out Of This Thread !!!

:evilgrin:

[emilyg]

116. So did I. Go Hillary.

[Blackhatjack]

127. If you feel comfortable, could you answer the questions I posed in the OP and I will listen...

You support Hillary. How do you view her positions on these issues? THanks.

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeHereNow]

132. Other than your jingo-ism "Go Hillary" what exactly IS your response to the OP?

What ARE your views on the original question posed on this thread,
besides your "Go Hillary" Faux news rhetoric?
Eh???
Eh???

You've been asked more than once now and STILL have yet to elicit an intelligible reply
to a very direct query.
Are you being "rude" and simply ignoring the question?
BHN

[hedgehog]

114. I think the OP was a fair question.

Now as for the bulk of commnets on the thread.......

[Blackhatjack]

124. I really am trying to discern the Hillary Backers' arguments on these two issues...

I do not think any of us can make our best arguments either for or against Hillary without understanding the other side.

[AmBlue]

135. It's not peculiar at all...

Americans SHOULD be offended by anyone that tosses their hat in the ring and wants to be our President, yet has indefensible positions on matters that are vital to the welfare of this country, which is already deep in the weeds.

"All hat, no cattle" is what they call it, I think.... Now where have I heard that before??? hmmmmm.....

[BeHereNow]

137. Not only does the candidate have indefensible views, apparently her supporters share them

As witnessed by the asinine repies on this thread by them-
who ever the hell "they" are.
BHN

[Stephanie]

121. They're off the clock.

Punched out and went home for dinner.

[BeHereNow]

140. What ARE you suggesting!!! I'm SHOCKED!

Shocked I tell you!!!!
:evilgrin: :sarcasm: :applause:
BHN

[Captain Hilts]

107. Iraq: She understands the war has to end the sooner the better, but the US...

needs to leave a trip wire of troops to discourage other countries from coming in - as we did in Germany during the Cold War. We have to remove the troops methodically to avoid leaving a state of chaos greater than we have now. Ironic, I know.

She's not my candidate. I'm supporting Biden or Richardson at this point.

[Blackhatjack]

112. I've never heard her say we need to leave troops to discourage other countries from coming in...

I have heard her say we need to leave troops in place to conduct combat missions against Al Qaeda. But Al Qaeda is not a country, and does not have an army.

[YankmeCrankme]

166. Not only that, but we still have troops in Germany, 60 years after the war ended

and almost twenty after the fall of the USSR. So, her vision is one of occupation for another half century?

[FREEWILL56]

172. I say no to that being her vision because it is occupation with ongoing

combat missions. Simply, she is saying the war must go on.

[John Q. Citizen]

122. No, we are going to stay and keep the bases and the oil. Otherwise, what was the point?

Why the mega giant embassy?

We will be in Iraq for 50 years, or until the oil runs out.

You read it here first.

[Blackhatjack]

108. Was HRC's Vote on IWR Correct? Was HRC's Vote on Kyl/Leiberman Correct? Why?

These are two well know votes on the record. If you back Hillary as your candidate, why were her votes correct?

If she did not vote correctly on one or both, what did she do to rectify those votes?

I am looking for positive comments here.

[AmBlue]

136. Maybe they need more time....

You should post this again tomorrow night, just to be sure they have adequate chance to respond. Maybe they didn't see your post.

[JVS]

123. I like that she'll kick their ass and take their gas!

:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blackhatjack]

138. I must say I am disappointed that none of the Hillary Backers addressed the OP Questions...

And I really do not understand why.

On other threads I thought the Hillary Backers were complaining that the opportunity to discuss issues had been drowned out by the 'Hillary Bashing.'

Maybe this thread will survive til tomorrow and we can find some Hillary Backers who are willing to share their positive thoughts here.

[BeHereNow]

139. Uh-huh...

Can't wait for more mindless rhetoric that avoids the actual
question you posed.

BHN

[Perry Logan]

142. Why waste time debating losers?

[Froward69]

143. Having been to a hillary "leadership conference"

I can tell ya honestly they have been instructed to ignore debate... to the hillary lemmings you are crazy for asking an honest question. she is inevitable. they are not concentrating on honest open debate. They are focused upon getting a "Team Hillary Leader" to every precinct in America (regardless of residency) to intimidate everyone into voting for her and her delegates.

I enjoyed this post... and i will have to try some of the popcorn recipes. Thank you

oh and vote Joe Biden. I am a free thinker and will engage and enjoy any debate. again Thank you.

[redqueen]

159. Oh I really hope that that "leadership conference" was an anomaly.

That doesn't sound good at all.

[FREEWILL56]

173. Is this for real?

Somehow I believe you as we've seen nothing but avoidance and verbal strongarming from them. I say GO HILLARY and DON'T COME BACK.

[Froward69]

223. Yes it is real...

unethical and immoral, but not illegal. really just sad.

[leftchick]

147. it is like someone farted in an elevator

Every time I prove Hillary is a warmonger, just like bush and cheney, the Hillbots disappear. Check this out for lack of response to FACTS....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2169139

[MissDeeds]

149. How do you defend the indefensible?

It would have been interesting to read why some support her. As it is, the more I learn about HRC, the less I like her.

[CrispyQ]

150. Exactly!

How do you defend: "We can't be fighting the last war. We have to be preparing to fight the new war."

Welcome to DU, MissDeeds!

[Lucinda]

151. I have a question for those of you who DONT support K/L....

What is your solution?

From everything that I have read, no one in a leadership position has said that a wing of the Iranian military is NOT actively aiding and abetting, IN IRAQ, those forces who are killing our military men and women. That seems to be accepted as true. The differences are what to do about it.

So one faction of the Senate supported a modified version of K/L - a sense of the Senate - non-binding resolution - which publicly identifies what Iran is doing, tells them it will not be tolerated on the ground in IRAQ, and moves to place financial sanctions against Iran, all in an effort to make them back off. Make them stop helping to kill American soldiers on the ground in Iraq. Which is what is happening.

And the other portion of the senate is doing...well...what?

So....we cannot yet stop the war, but you don't want to call out Iran and put pressure on them to stop their actions in Iraq. What's your solution to keep them from helping to murder American forces in IRAQ?

[YankmeCrankme]

167. You make it sound like we have a legitimate reason to be in Iraq

You do realize that our actions in Iraq are helping to get US soldiers killed. Shouldn't Ms Clinton be doing something about that? Who are we to tell Iranians that they can't use their position to have influence in their sphere of interest. We, routinely, throughout history have done the same as have other countries.

Maybe Iran is doing what they are doing to put pressure on the US to stop their actions in Iraq. Why is it so hard to see the other sides position? Why do you assume ours is the better of the two? Maybe Iran has legitimate complaints about what the US is doing in the region that affects Iran's stability and security?

We don't really know what our forces are doing there, are they actively going into Iran, are they trying to destabilize the region? Are they spying on Iran's territory or infrastructure? Are they agitating the locals to spread unrest? My assumption is yes, we are doing these things, so maybe Iran is reacting to our belligerence.

[Lucinda]

170. So you really think that Iran has a right to surreptitiously disrupt Iraqi stability and help to

attack Iraqi and US forces IN IRAQ? I couldn't disagree with you more. Iran has a vested interest Iraq instability.

As for our meddling in the Middle East, we do have some common ground. I believe we have created huge problems. I believe we have responsibility in creating Bin Laden. But we are not responsible for the way in which these factions choose to respond.

We need to help rebuild Iraq, get out, and stop trying to play God. And part of that, is protecting the Iraquis and the American forces from outside groups which are making that process more difficult.

[YankmeCrankme]

176. Iraq was unstable before Iran did anything.

Yes, Iran wants a stable Iraq, which is probably why they would like the US to exit there, since we are the major catalyst for instability and chaos.

Calling their military terrorists did not advance a solution to the Iraq problem one iota. It probably makes Iran more intransigent and makes real diplomacy more difficult to do, which was never the goal of this administration or Congress.

[Lucinda]

edit dupe

[Lucinda]

180. Iraq and Iran have been at odds for a long ,long time

and have both tried to gain wider influence in the region. These are long standing, deeply held differences.

The Iranian people would, no doubt like stability. The government however, has placed a section of their military, in another country, working against the efforts of the Iraqis to form a stable government. Aiding and abetting those attacking the Iraqis and Americans.

I'll ask again, what is your proposition? If calling attention to the actions of the Iranian military, and imposing sanctions isn't acceptable to protect our troops and the Iraqis, what is? I'm not trying to be snarky. I really would like to hear other options.

[YankmeCrankme]

194. First, I would suggest we admit it was a mistake invading and

occupying Iraq. Second, I would immediately announce our intention of withdrawing our troops and forgoing any further presence in Iraq. Third, I would ask for a UN and Arab commitment to stabilizing and rebuilding Iraqi government and infrastructure and work with those two groups by supporting it financially and materially. Then we would say that by the NPT, of which Iran is a signatory, they have the right to pursue nuclear power and that we extend an open invitation to their people and government to work with them to address our concerns and differences to help establish two way communication for resolving the issues between our countries. Recognizing the fact that Iran has legitimate concerns and they have the right to self-determination and sovereignty without outside interference.

[Lucinda]

197. I think that's a great way to extricate ourselfs from the mess

and I agree with you about Iran, but what can be done now to stop the assistance Iran is giving to anti-Iraqi and US forces in Iraq today?

Are you saying that Iran might cease if we were to respect NTP and stop pushing them into positions where they are feeling threatened?

[YankmeCrankme]

219. It's all interrelated.

Iran is a repressive nation, how repressive is a matter of degree and perspective. Is it more repressive than Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Hussein's Iraq, Pinochet's Chile? Probably not. More repressive than England, France, Canada? Certainly. Is it something they can live with? It's up to them. The Iranian people will decide, should decide what to do about the repression they live with. The US has no right to interfere with their internal affairs. We don't decide how other countries should live, what economic system they must have, how they conduct trade, diplomacy, etc.

The Iranian people are just as smart, creative, hardworking, care as much for their families as any one else. They overthrew the Shah's repressive regime, which the US supported and they remember that. If it gets as bad as that and they decide to change it they will. Without our help. The thing is, like every other nation, they take umbrage at being bullied. Iranians are proud and will resent anyone from the outside trying to coerce them or telling them what to do in their own country. The US needs to drop that attitude, that we are right and everyone needs to do things our way for our benefit or the benefit of our corporations.

Calling them terrorists and trying to get other countries to impose sanctions on them is definitely not the way to resolve a problem of our making. Begin engaging Iran in dialog and diplomacy. That will require the end of demonization and a recognition of Iran as a sovereign nation with national interests that might not match up to ours, but are as equally as important to them as ours are to us.

But, I don't believe that is what our government wants. Mores the pity.

Thanks for listening! :)

[FREEWILL56]

177. Just as much right as we have I would think.

We really have no legitimate reason for being there and hillary has supported george bush in this and not our troops that don't belong there.
From you, "We need to help rebuild Iraq, get out, and stop trying to play God."
I see nothing that suggests that's what hillary has in mind or wants to do. If that's how she feels then why did she keep supporting bush's wishes for going there in the first place? There wouldn't be any discussions on what to do now if she and others did not give the war pResident approval for this kind of crap and I see nothing different coming from her now.

[Lucinda]

181. So...what's your suggestion for dealing with WHAT IS happening?

The troops arent leaving, at the moment anyway. Americans and Iraqis are being attacked. Part of the Iranian military is helping that attack, on the ground, in Iraq. What do we do about it?


I vote for sanctions, and diplomatic pressure. You prefer....?

[fenriswolf]

187. immediate withdrawl

plead with the international community for help and support. We cannot create peace in iraq

metaphor: one man tortures another man for years, disrupts his life, causes him and his family harm, kills relitives and causes a rapid decline in health. after a couple of years of this the man see's what he has done and wants to help the man he was torturing.....will the person who was tortured ever heal at the hands of the torturer?

that is americas position, we cannot heal iraq, we need the international community to do it.

also our soldiors are being attacked solely because they are their and iraq and iran does not want them to be their, so get them out. if iran trys to do something after we leave we will have the international community their to stop them. ( i dont think iran would do anyhting anyways.)

[Lucinda]

191. I agree. The assistance of international community is the best way

We absolutely should get help, get out, and get Iraq rebuilt.

Junior has no intention of doing this though. Congress has made no efforts to make this happen.

So, for me, sanctions and diplomatic pressure are at least a means to put pressure on Iran to stop assisting. Is K/L the best solution, even as a stop-gap? Most likely not. But I don't think we can afford to not try.

And I cant think of a single thing that's going to make the WH or congress do anything really substantive before the next election.

[YankmeCrankme]

195. What pressures on US would be acceptable to you to have us stop assisting?

Who do you think should be putting this pressure on us and what pressures would that be?

[Lucinda]

198. To stop us assisting the rebuilding of Iraq? None. It's our mess and

I think we have an obligation to do what is necessary to rebuild the country, with the international communities help. We shouldn't have gone in the first place, but we are obligated to solve the problems since we did.

I'm horrified that we have spent a bazillion dollars on the stupid embassy, yet we cannot provide basic services, and the Iraqis are now exposed to health problems, in addition to everything else they have been through.

To stop a US push to attack Iran? I am glad to hear the noises coming from the rest of the world warning junior against an Iranian attack. We have no grounds to do so. Our population should be more vocal. And hopefully we will speak loudly in the next election as well.

But that still doesn't mean I think we should allow a faction of Iran's military to assist anti-Iraqi and anti-American forces in Iraq.

[YankmeCrankme]

215. Rebuilding Iraq? Is that what we're doing? Could of fooled me.

I don't see any evidence that we are rebuilding Iraq, quite the opposite.

[Lucinda]

217. You asked a question. I was asking what you referred to. And you still havent answered the question.

What should we be doing right now, that can be done under Bush, regarding the problem on the ground in Iraq?

[YankmeCrankme]

220. I've generously answered your questions.

My point with the post you responded to was; we aren't rebuilding Iraq! So using that as an argument for why we are in Iraq is irrelevant. The fact that we are in Iraq is what drives Iraqi and Iranian cooperation.

What can be done? Quit supporting Bush and Republican proposals or proposals by democrats that are essentially the same that do nothing but exacerbate the problem, that does nothing substantial to resolve the issues and problems we created in Iraq by our invasion and occupation.

[Lucinda]

222. Which Iraqis do you think are cooperating WITH the Iranians, aiding attaks against Iraqis?

So basically you're saying the Iraqis and US soldiers being attacked, with the assistance of the Iranians in Iraq, are on their own?

I'm pretty sure we're done here. I don't think we have any common ground on this at all.

[icnorth]

185. Could you provide credible sources for your hypothesis or...

is this more of Cheney's one percent doctrine??

"Even if there's just a 1 percent chance of the unimaginable coming due, act as if it is a certainty. It's not about 'our analysis,' as Cheney said. It's about 'our response.' … Justified or not, fact-based or not, 'our response' is what matters. As to 'evidence,' the bar was set so low that the word itself almost didn't apply."

Ron Suskind - The One Percent Doctrine

[Lucinda]

192. Credible sources for what? That a faction of the Iranian military

is assisting those attacking Iraqis and Americans? That the US has created a lot of the problems that exist? or That we should help rebuild Iraq?

Iranian involvement was documented and is discussed in K/L. I havn't seen anyone who voted against it dispute the details, only that it was unwise to vote for it because of the possibility that Bush would use it to invade. If you have other information I'd love to see it.

[FREEWILL56]

179. I've also not seen anything from anybody saying that there is not a Santa Claus

either let alone a Grinch. So what does she intend to do to help Santa against that terrorism of the Grinch? Does she support sending troops to the north pole because there's a possibility the Grinch might go nuclear as he claims he needs the electricity?
Both are concocked animated reasons for supporting or suggesting more illegal military war actions.

[Lucinda]

184. Good grief. Are you kidding me?

The Grinch has no interest in Santa's turf. He's an isolationist.
He only hits Whooville when he's tanked up during the Holidays, trying to spoil people's fun.

[Mme. Defarge]

190. Wow!

Double wow! The results here are just stunning.

Really curious about all of those moderator-deleted threads.

Unfortunately, the Hillary propagandists believe that the majority of voters don't vote on issues, but on likeability and/or the desire to vote for a winner.

[Javaman]

193. So after reading through all the responses on this thread...

not a single person has stated clearly what her platform is.

And this has always been my reason not to support her.

She likes to continue the very American political tradition of blowing smoke where it shouldn't go.

Kucinich is still my first choice.

[Blackhatjack]

199. Sadly I have to agree with you, not a single person clearlystated her platform on these issues...

I don't understand how you can support a candidate, any candidate, when you know nothing about that candidate's platform on these two very important, essential issues.

Is it blind allegiance? Is it an emotional response?

I really am stunned that not a single person decided to take me up on the offer to describe her votes and her positions in positive terms.

Does it mean they can't? I don't know.

As sure as the sun comes up, you will never persuade another party to adopt your candidate if you do not talk about your candidate in positive terms.

[Mme. Defarge]

201. Self-Delete

[AntiFascist]

196. Let's talk about nation-building, shall we?

Could it be that the DLC feels that no one can "drain the swamp of the Middle East" <bring about regime change> better than aggressive <preemptive> Democrats?

[dsc]

203. Barney Frank isn't a member of the DLC

[AntiFascist]

205. Hahaha....

you really want to make this about Barney Frank and why he supports Hillary, don't you?

Ok, let's open up another can of worms...I can certainly understand why the Gay community (being a member myself) opposes the Iranian government which routinely executes people just for being gay. Should this lend further support for the US preemptively bringing about regime-change in Iran, possibly killing thousands of innocents in the process ourselves?

Comments, suggestions....crickets?

[cynatnite]

200. So, you're assuming that those who support Hillary support...

the Iraq war and her position on Iran? Is that what I'm reading here?

[Blackhatjack]

204. I really never considered someone would oppose her on these and still support her candidacy...

Interesting question. I said her votes and positions on the Iraq War and Iran. Not that her backers support the Iraq War.

How likely is it that a Hillary Backer would oppose her votes and positions on these two issues and still support her candidacy for the President?

If you fall in this group, please explain.

[cynatnite]

210. I may fall in that group if I choose to support her...

One of the factors I take into consideration when it comes to a candidate is who has the best chance of winning. I'm pretty pragmatic when it comes to elections and I don't expect all my views to be in line with a candidate. In fact, I'm betting on the fact that I'll have to disregard her Iran vote if I think she has a real chance at winning the WH. I think she does, but I'm not convinced enough at this point to set that in stone. Her support has slipped some in the polls.

Thing is if she gets the nomination her backers will increase substantially and they'll have to deal with it in their own way if they disagree with her on those issues.

Best explanation I can offer at this point. It's still early in the race. :)

[FREEWILL56]

206. That's not what I'm reading of the OP.

It is asking why hillary supporters support hillary and why in lite of how she votes and what she says. Are you attempted to answer with a non-answer question?

[Mme. Defarge]

208. Reread the OP

[FREEWILL56]

214. I did and it asks what you like/dislike about her positions in Iraq/Iran.

Nowhere did it say you are pro war if pro hillary.
YOU REREAD.

[Stinky The Clown]

211. Congratulations on the stupidest, most shameless self promotion of one's own thread ......

... maybe in the history of DU.

Keep poking sticks into bee hives and eventually you get stung.

For the record, I could care less about her positions on anything ...... she's not my favorite candidate by a long shot. If she wins the nomination, I will vote for her, but quite likely work **only** for local and down-ballot candidates.