Full Horror of Waterboarding to Be Demonstrated in DC on Monday

[babylonsister]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/28371

Full Horror of Waterboarding to Be Demonstrated
Submitted by davidswanson on Sun, 2007-11-04 11:24. Activism

Monday, November 5, 12 noon, at 10th & Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Washington, DC

On the eve of the Senate Judiciary Committee vote on the nomination of Judge Michael B. Mukasey, a group of human rights activists will demonstrate waterboarding at the Justice Department, 10th & Pennsylvania, NW.

The volunteer torture victim will demonstrate what victims of U.S. government torture experience -- with one important exception. In this demonstration, the victim can stop the procedure at any time. In U.S. government torture, the victim is not afforded this luxury.

An invitation is being extended to persons with special difficulty understanding that waterboarding is torture: Judge Michael Mukasey, presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani, and members of the Office of Legal Counsel.

Also invited are Senators Schumer and Feinstein and any others, who feel that the best we can do is accept an Attorney General willing to turn a blind eye to torture.

For more information: 917-204-0927.

[wtmusic]

1. That...is awesome

and I'm sure it will receive the media exposure it deserves. Or not. :eyes:

[Quantess]

19. I'm sure Britney Spears will have run over someone's foot that day. (EOM)

[rabies1]

60. It BETTER be picked up by the media. ALSO of importance is..

the fact that many die of pneumonia later because of how the waterboarding damaged their lungs.

(See any of the You Tube videos.)

[Blue Fire]

2. I nominate * as a 'volunteer' torture victim!

Only, give him the full boat treatment. No luxury of stopping the procedure, until he tells the truth about everything - election fraud, the lies leading to war, all of it!

[City Lights]

11. I second that! Send The Dick, too!

:thumbsup:

[Joanne98]

45. I nominate Condi!

[Tom Joad]

49. I nominate Ms. Di and Mr. S of NY.. or i would, if i believed in torturing political

opponents.

I just want to end their political careers and live long happy lives doing other work.

McDonald's is hiring!

[SammyWinstonJack]

61. ...

:yoiks:

[dkofos]

3. Will they waterboard Mukasey??

[Amonester]

8. mockassey is a nobody without schumer and feinstein ...

maybe they should volunteer to test it and see for themselves...

[Mira]

36. I suggest after treatment he will have AN OPINION

[Hubert Flottz]

4. That volunteer is a true patriot...

K&R this to the front page...

[panader0]

5. I have always maintained that Mukasey should try it first

and then decide if he thinks it's torture. The US condemned it as torture when used by the Viet Cong in Vietnam.

[tekisui]

6. Do you think that they will actually attend?

I should hope they would, but will they?

[soothsayer]

9. i bet not

[toadzilla]

23. no way in hell.

[radfringe]

7. how about sending an invite to participate

to bush and cheney... one to Gonzo too since he has stated that the Geneva conventions are 'quaint'

might as well add oxy Rush Old LIE-ly and the entire faux news crew to the invite list

[williesgirl]

10. Wow! Great idea. Hope Keith covers in full. rec'd

[reprehensor]

12. Sweet. n/t

[lonestarnot]

13. Will he wear an American flag?

[donsu]

14. so anytime soon now some kids are going to try out waterboarding themselves

you know they will

[Guaranteed]

15. Yup. It's becoming a fad.

Gonna check out youtube for some sweet waterboarding videos.

[Solly Mack]

17. Yeah. That's what bothers me about all this

Water-boarding is torture. It's not something people should just blithely wish on another just to prove a point and it's not something you can just say *let me show you how bad it is* just to prove a point, because then it looks as if people are happily volunteering to be tortured, so it must not be so bad...naturally the conditions for those attempting to demonstrate water-boarding are controlled - so the picture people are left with is one where the victim hasn't really been harmed...so water-boarding can't be all that bad....so it isn't torture.

It's reducing the horror of torture to a side show

and then there will be the copycats like you mention, and sooner or later, some kid is going to kill another kid this way...

[Tom Joad]

50. I agree. what makes waterboarding torture is that the victim is

very unsure if he/she is going to survive, at least that is a key part of it. In a sample demonstration this would not be the case, if you trust those people who are doing it.

and no, we should not wish torture on anyone. Even our worst enemies, including Bush and his enablers in Congress.

[Solly Mack]

52. The psychological build-up of not knowing what to expect is

a huge part of it. Just think of what sheer terror does to your mind even before the physical torture begins. Doctors who have worked with torture victim survivors say they suffer from PTSD and for years afterword, wake up screaming from nightmares about drowning.

It's not a game. It's not a gotcha. It's not a point to prove.

It's torture.


The other day Cheney was telling people that the "enhanced interrogation techniques" were carefully controlled and monitored...so when you stage an actual carefully controlled and monitored demonstration where no real danger exist for the victim, all Bush Inc has to say is, *But that's what we do* and *see! - no real harm*

When it's not the same at all.

The volunteer wasn't snatched from his home or the street, his/her face covered with a hood and then put on a plane to some strange place. The volunteer knows the people in the demonstration. The true victim doesn't.

Yes, I know anyone experiencing water-boarding will experience some of the same things..the feeling of drowning and all the physical changes that comes with it(heart rate increase, panic, etc)....but they have the benefit of knowing it's still a secure environment...it's still a safe environment.

They weren't terrorized prior to water-boarding and they won't be terrorized after it's over either.

Those things matter for the full impact of what torture is...

[derby378]

16. I think Feinosaur and Schmuckmer should be chained to front-row seats for this one

They can cheer on the waterboarding with their little bags of popcorn in their hands while cameras zoom in on their faces.

:mad:

[bdamomma]

62. yea, not be able to leave or turn away to see THAT WATERBOARDING IS TORTURE.

when it happens to our soldiers watch the fur fly, and by then it will be to late, whatever happened to the Geneva Convention??? fucking idiots.

[slowry]

18. How about a non-volunteer? It's just a swimming lesson right? n/t

[R_M]

20. And Fox "News" will dismiss it as a stunt.

[wtmusic]

24. If Fox even covers it I will be amazed. nt

[populistdriven]

21. waterboard *!

[bdamomma]

63. I second that, but remember he is afraid of horses too.

[baseballhead]

22. The flip side

is that people will see how non tortuous waterboarding CAN APPEAR and will think it no big deal. There is no blood, no broken bones, no fingernails ripped out, and relatively little screaming of the victim (primarily because they are struggling to breathe). Most red state people think torture is what they see on "24". They might think "hey, what's the big friggin deal with waterboarding?" Isn't the torture the mental pain the victim goes thru thinking they are going to drown? How can they effectively demonstrate that?

[Sugar Smack]

25. Hey, welcome to DU, hon. You have a point but

I think other people's excruciating pain, psychological or not, strikes a chord with humans, even republicans. I know what you mean by relatively little screaming, but I don't underestimate the power of this demonstration.

[Sugar Smack]

26. And stop dismissing "red staters". If we're on this board, we voted blue, OK?

[Benhurst]

31. It sure worked out that way in ancient Rome, a civilization we seem determined

to emulate.

I hope this elicits the planned response, but I fear the mob will miss the point.

[B Calm]

27. Hey... I live in a so called red state. Torture is torture, republicans

will believe whatever their leaders tell them to believe! They are kiss ass, suck ups in life, so they can't help themselves..

[bonito]

28. K&R

[Gregorian]

29. But waterboarding is only a fraction of what is being done.

What happens to those who are rendered to other countries? Come on! This isn't just about waterboarding.

And any waterboarding that is done in situ is going to be BULLSHIT. There is no way they are going to completely duplicate the conditions. Because when these people are in their locations, they are under duress, and uncertainty, and cruelty. They have no guarantees. But this "demonstration" guarantees a survival.

I say it's bullshit. But better than nothing.

[lligrd]

30. Should Be Mandatory Viewing

and participation for Congressional members.

[Sam Ervin jret]

32. Does a video Of Levin"s water boarding exist? They don't believe their own. Without....

forcing them to view a video (they will never turn up to see this) or forcing the public to see a video and to force the issue this will fall on deaf (and dumb, double meaning intended) ears. Mukasey KNOWS water boarding is torture. I cannot say the same for Giuliani or even Bush. The former Mayor is a THUG and the president is a MORON. But Mukasey is a LAWYER (better?) and is playing with WORDS so as to protect those who may (please don't make me laugh) have used the technique under the present administration. He may want to stop future water boarding. People on the committee may be happy to have that "small" concession to humanity and to law. I am not. I want law breakers held accountable even if or rather especially if they where breaking the law under orders from the administration. Let them do what other law breakers do. Make a deal with prosecutors to get the real TOP BAD guys. The PRESIDENT, THE VICE PRESIDENT and the lawyers (addington) who told them this was legal to do. We cannot only

IMPEACH

anymore

PROSECUTION

for crimes by those, for those under the authority of those in this administration is essential to regaining the Constitution and the rule of LAW in this land.

WE THE PEOPLE must be satisfied.

[sss1977]

33. waterboard Mukasey!

I mean it's not torture, right? Heck we should use it on our kids instead of spanking. It's practically harmless.

[BREMPRO]

37. why not bush and cheney? since it's not torture, they shouldn't object...

..to a taste of their own immoral brutality...

[Miss_Underestimated]

34. Just in case Senator UnFeinstein isn't there, I hope someone will video it and

put it on youtube so she can visit the link :hurts:

[AuntPatsy]

35. Every single person who deems torture acceptable should be forced to attend.

and what would make my day is if the media actually covers the event and gives it the time it so desperately deserves and not the usual one second blips concerning issues someone higher up deems appropriate to the lowly mouth piece so called journalists.

[w4rma]

38. A doctor needs to be on standby for this. (nt)

[bjobotts]

39. Feinstein is not a democrat...she's Trent Lott's bitch.

[bjobotts]

40. Waterboarding does not have to be demonstrated. They know it's torture

I'm glad they don't feel the need to demonstrate that the guillotine kills people. Do they think a demonstration will make any difference...what goober thought that was a good idea instead of just a spectacle?

[bjobotts]

41. How stupid. Open to ridicule. Mukasey knows already.

Others will say you're just not doing it right and then it becomes a matter of control and A BIG DISTRACTION FROM THE POINT.
The point being that Mukasey will not do anything that might incriminate the Bush regime or its practices. Good Luck trying to make a point...which is what??

[valerief]

42. A waterboarding demo is just a live sex show to these horrid warlords. nt

[Stalwart]

59. Ultra Violence

Reminds me of a scene from Clockwork Orange. In an attempt to reform a violent character, they show him scenes of repulsive violence. He loves it. Forced his eyelids open to assure that he watched it. Like chaining to the chair to watch this demonstration. Maybe they will need crowd control for all the authoritarians that show up to watch and enjoy.

Been a long time since I have seen the movie but that is how I remember that part.

In the hands of a video editor there are some great cross cutting opportunities here.

[Heywood J]

43. Video this. Find a news crew if you can,

that would be ideal for it to be reported on the six and eleven o'clock news, but anyone there should have a video camera or at least several cell-phone cameras.

[ToolTex]

44. K&R. Where can we watch? Has anybody invited CSPAN or CNN or FAUX?

[stlsaxman]

46. I recall that at one VietNam war protest someone announced the would napalm a dog...

to prove how horrible the stuff Baskin-Robbins was making and there was such an uproar. The press came around and everyone was telling him to stop and he said- "This kind of things happen to Vietnamese children all the time these days- and you're raising a stink about A DOG?!?!?!"

Of course he never did it but the point was made.

[flyarm]

47. i watched the Making of the Film "RENDITION" on HBO tonight..

they said they tried to show the most authentic story they could about Rendition and they said Rendition started under Bill Clinton..i was very surprised by that statement..i had not heard that before ..has anyone else?

fly

[fooj]

51. Here ya go...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Usage_by_the_Clinton_Administration

The ACLU has something on it, too.

[flyarm]

64. thanks ..all the more reason i can not support Hillary!! eom

[Swamp Rat]

48. Waterboard Mukasey and EVERYONE IN CONGRESS!

[democrank]

53. Sickening to know

there are some who still want to debate this issue.

[krj44]

54. there seems to be a lot of

discussion on torture and waterboarding,etc.during my 3 year tour in nam i decided that as distasteful as torture is the soldier in the field has to use by whatever means necessary to get info from captured personnel.there was an incident that had 4 vc captured and arguing going back and forth with the interrogator,a sarge stepped in and put a bullit in the had of one vc the other vc immediately began talking they showed where arms and tunnels etc. were,now as grotesque as this may seem in the field methods are necessary,it would be ludicrous to think that our enemies will ever show mercy for they place no value on human life.the geneva convention is a worthless bag of crap,its politicians crap to argue back and forth and another wedge issue to help ignore our real problems.since our astute leaders mainly rethugs have gotten us into this bag of crap we must defend ourselves,since the balless democrats refuse to bring the curtain down on this neo-facist government of ours the troops must fend for themselves,there was this time 37 years ago that a 12 yr. was running at me with a grenade in his hand,there was never any doubt that i would pull the trigger,the guilty are the ones that send us there,troops must accomplish their mission by whatever means necessary,if we don't allow this than don't put us there,bring the troops home today and think twice,thrice etc. about war.

[deacon]

55. This congress is nearing how bad the last congress was. And they may have arrived on this one.

Refusing To Say Waterboarding Is Torture, Justice Nominee Puts the Ball In Congress' Court

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/04/opinion/courtwatch/main3450456.shtml

[Dox]

56. My Question Is ...

... is it going to be all that shocking to the casual observer? Granted it might be, to a certain extent.

After all, it's all about the person experiencing the ... let's just call it what it is ... CONTROLLED DROWNING ... who experiences the horrific effects of the practice.

[Wisconsin Larry]

57. Water Boarding instructions can be found on YouTube at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GcXl1y_mQw

This includes a demonstration which is pretty horrific.

As is the concluding statement by the "instructor", "we have this saying, the smell of victory is the smell of excrement".

Allowing anyone who is unsure if this is torture to become AG is tantamount to being complicit in the crime.

[bdamomma]

58. this practice is probably among many torture techinques

they are practicing that we don't even know about. These people are criminals and I hope to see the day when this regime will pay for their sick crimes.

[Freddie Stubbs]

65. Is it really torture if it is voluntary?

Or is it just S&M? :shrug: