A pox on christians.

[flamin lib]

There’s a war on Halloween. At least for kids. I decorated my house, lighted the walkway with pumpkin lights, put out jack-o-lanterns and dressed up. Two trick or treaters showed up. Meanwhile on every corner there are signs for “Fall Festivals” to be held at local churches and being in the buckle of the bible belt there’s a church on every corner to go with those signs.

A pox on all the Christians, but just a small pox . . .

[BOSSHOG]

1. I agree with your sentiment although I had better luck

We had 49 "visitors" last night. I had the yard lit up and gave away large portions. Still got some crap left over. I know many of the kids (or more correctly I know their parents) and the fundie kids have quite the little attitude when they are away from mommy and daddy.

[flamin lib]

7. The number of kids out has dwindled every year as the churches

have promoted their "fall festivals" more and more. Holloween is still a big thing for adults throwing parties and such, but the little kids are being kept home or trucked into the church parking lots.

Harry Potter and Halloween, enemies of Christ!

[regnaD kciN]

47. Personally, I think your analysis is full of it...

I would tend to guess that it has more to do with the demographics of your neighborhood. When there are a lot of young kids in a neighborhood, there will be lots of trick-or-treaters. As they get older (and it does strike me that sub-developments tend to a large bloc of kids of a certain age, and fewer outside that group), they want to hang out with each other more on Halloween, but are "too old" for hitting people up for candy.

Another phenomenon that I've noticed around here is the sudden prevalence of trick-or-treating at shopping malls. When you live in places where rain is common in late October, lots more parents want to take their kids to the nearest mall, where it will be warm and dry as well as safer -- plus, there are other Halloween activities for the kids there, while the grown-ups can do a little shopping or grab a meal at the food court and make it a night out for the whole family. The last couple of years, we took Lizzie to one or another of the malls -- the first one was packed to the gills (to the point that everyone ran out of candy well before the evening was over), and the second, smaller center was well-attended and a lot of fun.

[Midlodemocrat]

2. Gee, thanks for that.

:eyes:

[Chovexani]

4. Here you go.

[gatorboy]

3. Maybe you're too scary.

[Midlodemocrat]

6. Or maybe the neighborhood has 'aged out' of trick or treating.

That's what happened here.

[gatorboy]

8. We took our kids to one of those wicked “Fall Festivals” last night.

Are littlest one had a great time! And they were giving out handfuls of candy. The good stuff! Plus we left with 2 dozen cup cakes from the cake walk. The sugar high could've powered a small county.

[Midlodemocrat]

11. They are a lot of fun. Especially when you have kids of

different ages who want to trick or treat with their friends and there's only one of you.

Kids get all the candy they want, Mom doesn't pull her hair out trying to keep track of them.

[Eric J in MN]

21. What was it like? Did the kids wear costumes?

Do they say, "Trick of Treat?"

[gatorboy]

22. Well...Yeah!

Maybe that's what I'm not quite getting from the OP. All the kids wore costumes. Even the church members that were there helping out were in costume (Jack Sparrows as far as the eye could see). I would've worn my Stormtrooper armor but it's a bitch to put on/take off and it's not very comfortable.

[Eric J in MN]

26. It's just like Halloween but indoors...

...with kids going to tables instead of houses?

[gatorboy]

28. Everything was outdoors.

It's set up like a carnival. With inflatable moonwalks, game booths set up to win candy (You always win candy though.) Cake walks, Soda pop walks... And I'm not kidding about the candy. We came home with pounds of stuff. Snicker's, M&M's, etc. I was actually surprised that they were handing out the good stuff and just how much they handed out to each kid.

[flamin lib]

9. The subdivision is into it's second generation of home owners and

has more kids under 15 than ever. I'm right across the street from an elementary school so there's lots of kiddie traffic.

Our local brand of Christianity isn't very Christian when it comes to tolerance.

[Midlodemocrat]

12. Tolerance for what?

Fall Festivals have been around forever. Some people LIKE them. If you don't LIKE them, don't go.

:eyes:

[flamin lib]

52. Yeah, but say "Happy Holidays" in December and you're attacking

Christmas.

[LittleClarkie]

5. Pffffft.

Thanks alot

[niyad]

10. around here, the kids are taken on the "mall crawls"== the merchants in the malls, and the

various shopowners in areas away from the malls, organize the candy thing for the safety of the kids. I go just to see them all in their costumes.

I do agree about the war on halloween, or Samhain, in my tradition, as it is our New Year, our most sacred holy day--and that REALLY is what drives the fundies nuttier than usual.

(my contribution this year was going through a parking lot, removing all the window flyers advertizing one of the fundie "hell houses"

[Aristus]

13. We're not all like that, honest.

Personally, I think it's idiotic to propose a "Christian" substitute for Halloween, since it is, after all, a Christian holiday. The idea was to replace a pagan celebration (Samhain) with a high Holy Day. Now what you have some lamebrains doing is proposing "Harvest Festivals" and whatnot to replace what they see is a Satanic Holiday. Trouble is, I can't think of anything that sounds more pagan than "Harvest Festival".

And I hate those "War On Christmas" assholes, too.

NOT ALL CHRISTIANS ARE HATEFUL IDIOTS! :grr::mad:

[ginnyinWI]

19. yeah the War on Christmas is just around the corner.

It seems to me that certain groups have found a psychological ploy: get people banded together against a common enemy and they will be more loyal. They've taken their cue from the GOP I guess.

[Chovexani]

35. Harvest Festivals are closer to what Samhain actually is

Samhain was the last harvest festival in the Celtic calendar. In the olden days it was when the animals were culled that couldn't survive the winter.

Wiccans and Pagans still observe it as a harvest type day.

[BoneDaddy]

14. Wow

most of the Christians I know celebrated Halloween... I see your pox and raise you another.

[wicket]

43. This one does

:(

[BoneDaddy]

67. Cool

I think that is a good thing )

[wicket]

69. Thanks

:hi:

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. Don't look at me. I took my kids to the local haunted house. And anyway, I've already had

the "chikin pops", so I am all good.

[ElizabethDC]

16. This Christian loves Halloween

I've always loved celebrating Halloween. I also grew up going to a Christian (Episcopalian, specifically) school, and they encouraged Halloweenn - everyone dressed up for Halloween at school, and we had costume contests and an assembly with performances (the little kids did "Monster Mash," the slightly older kids did "Thriller"). It wasn't until I was a teenager that I found out that some Christians were against Halloween.

[Alcibiades]

32. Many don't consider Episcopalians Christian

"Christian" today is a code word for certain brands of Baptists and Evangelicals.

[gatorboy]

39. Only if you let them.

[ElizabethDC]

41. Only among those who don't know what they're talking about, n/t

[regnaD kciN]

48. By which standard...

...the only "Muslims" are those Islam-o-fascists. :eyes: Nice to see people here adopting the same sort of bigotry as David Horowitz and Michael Medved.

:grr:

[Rockholm]

70. Luckily, we Episcopalians were around before they were.

And we will be around long after they are gone.

[Squatch]

17. I guess you didn't read this thread

Link

Posted by yours truly

[flamin lib]

58. I'm really happy for you. The Xtians down here are killing a

uniquely American tradition by replacing neighborhood participation with scripted and promoted carnivals.

[gatorboy]

61. You seriously think this is all a huge conspiracy?

:rofl: C'mon! Parents simply don't trust taking their kids neighborhood to neighborhood to pick up candy from strangers. They'd rather go to a carnival or even a mall.

[flamin lib]

65. No, it isn't a "conspiracy" but the outcome is the same. Halloween

has been a unique tradition in that it involved the community on a voluntary basis.

Even if the "Harvest Festivals" give good candy and are fun and convenient, it's different from going from house to house and being welcomed by the community.

It's not the same to pack the kids up and take them to some pre-arranged party.

Trust? In modern history there has been one, count 'em, ONE incident of a Halloween crime against a child. In the '70s (?) a guy in Houston poisoned his own kids to get the insurance. For years after that candy was X-rayed, inspected, injected, detected and nothing was ever found.

[gatorboy]

66. The "Harvest Festivals" didn't kill the house to house tradition.

I'm not sure why you think that. Parents did this on their own.

And look, it doesn't matter how many actual Halloween crimes there have been. There could've been twenty or none. TV, internet, it's all made us more aware of the world around us and parents simply would rather not take their kids to stanger's houses anymore.

Where do you take your kids?

[flamin lib]

71. Sorry for the late reply. I take my grandchildren, 5 & 2 door to door

in their neighborhood and in mine.

[proud patriot]

18. Very Sad

I get lots of kids here . But when I first started decorating
10 years ago there were very few .

Now we get carloads of kids dropped in our neighborhood .

Does the rest of your neighborhood decorate ?

Sometimes people find places where lots participate.

[flamin lib]

57. Two or three other houses have decorations out. I've really enjoyed

the kids in past years. Get dressed up and do magic at the door. This year I made half dozen Harry Potter sytle magic wands to give away.

I have a divided "magic" bag. I put three pieces of candy in the hidden side and ask the little ones to put one piece in the other. Wave the wand and then dump out the three pieces! Teach them that what they give comes back three fold.

[CreekDog]

20. I'm not fighting Halloween, don't lump us all together

tsk, tsk.

[MissB]

23. You need to move to my neighborhood.

I was given two glasses of wine and a hot toddy last night while trick or treating with my kids. If nothing else, *I* was happy last night.

[Arugula Latte]

62. We carry wine around (well, the grown ups do)

Lots of festivities and haunted houses around here -- big groups of revelers. I LOVE Halloween.

Christmas, on the other hand, bites it.

[silverlib]

24. From a spiritual view...

What other holiday gives a neighborhood an opportunity to give away something and ask nothing in return? I think the fall festivals take away this opportunity. But, then, that's just my opinion. I love Halloween and I am a Christian, though a very liberal and progressive one, but I've never met two Christians that agreed on everything about their religion.

[Warpy]

25. There weren't as many in my neighborhood this year

and most of them came around in a huge group. There was a white kid in blackface and a black kid in whiteface and they were trick or treating together.

I was pleased not to see a single Freddy Kreuger this year.

[Megahurtz]

27. Fundamentalist Christians Just

make shit up, pull it out of their Ass, and People follow them. Unbelievable.

Don't you know? Halloween is Evil! Satan made it up! You're worshipping Satan! :sarcasm:

:eyes:

Sometimes I wish they would just all go away. Halloween was a lot more fun before they came around.

There were some Deadbeats in my neighborhood exept for the annual Haunted House down the street! Cool! :thumbsup: There were plenty of Trick-Or-Treaters and people dressed up! I heard other neighborhoods nearby were all stuck-up though.

I think People are soon going to get sick and tired of the Fundamentalist Scourge and just be
themselves and celebrate more. I am seeing it here because this year was better than the last!:7

[regnaD kciN]

50. And then other people...

...decree that fundamentalism = Christianity, and post threads like "A Pox on all Christians."

It seems like non-thinking prejudice goes both ways... :eyes:

[flamin lib]

59. Point taken and aplogy offered. Still it was only a small pox . . .

[LanternWaste]

29. They're actually kind of fun....

You realize of course it's part of our nefarious plan to co-opt every holiday, empty them of their heathen values, and ever so slowly fill them up with God-fearing, American values right?

Halloween is merely the most recent one. Next on our list is National Boss Day-- with slogans like, "My Boss is a Jewish Account Representative" and "only He can endorse your paycheck", I figure it's a no-miss idea!

But our primary goal is Canada Day! Being that Canada is nothing but heathens and apostates with the occasional Northern Lights Druid roaming around, we figure there won't be much resistance to Total Holiday Dominance!!!!

(because if you can't laugh at Canadians, who can you laugh at...?)

[earth mom]

30. Our kid got a REALLY creepy pencil that read:

Earth
Water
His Blood
Darkness
Purity
Light

:puke:

Needless to say that piece o crap is in the trash.


Follow whatever religion you want-just leave me & my family alone-got it?! :grr:



p.s. BTW-There weren't as many trick or treaters out this year...

[Zywiec]

31. Aren't all our Democratic candidates Christian? n/t

[earth mom]

68. Yeah and maybe that's why this country is in trouble.

I'd like to see an atheist or agnostic in office.

Maybe then we'd see some fairness & accountability & integrity in this country.

You know, The Golden Rule.

That's why I picked my user name. Because that's what EVERYONE should adhere to before any god.

[LostinVA]

33. Yes -- because ALL Christians are the same

:eyes:

[Alcibiades]

34. "Christian" has been rebranded

Part of the problem in wishing a pox on Christians is that Evangelical Christians now use the term to refer only to themselves. Mainline and Catholic Churches, perhaps in a spirit of happy ecumenicism, have let them do it, and have not seen it for what it is, as a form of intolerance against other Christians.

Evangelicals today go about shouting loudly about Christianity and how they are the only Christians. This is a big part of the problem, as it makes other sorts of Christians look bad, and makes folks apt to use a broad brush.

[gatorboy]

40. And, unfortunately, causes members here to paint Christians with a very broad brush.

[regnaD kciN]

51. They can only be "rebranded" if the general public goes along...

...and declares "Yes! Yes! They're right! The only Christianity is evangelical fundamentalism." All the while ignoring the vast majority of Christians in America who are neither affiliated with fundamentalists nor hold fundamentalist beliefs.

Nice to see that the "liberals" on DU are ready and willing to join in the rebranding. :eyes:

[sarcasmo]

36. Halloween is this Atheists favorite holiday.

[Az]

37. We had a ton of kids

We haunt the house up something fierce every year. This year we won a neighborhood award (yay us!). We don't do it for the reward of course but to see the faces of the kids (and the parents) whether they are saying "aw cool man!" or "oh my god oh my god!!!!!". This year many kids were frightened and many kids laughed. It was a very good Halloween this year.

[niyad]

38. by the way, my dearest friend, who died of cancer two years ago, was, in her words,

"scary, because I am a LIBERAL evangelical christian". I happen to be wiccan--and we celebrated many a holiday (holy day) toegether.

some of us do understand ecumenical concepts.

[Romulox]

42. More bigotry...nt

[flamin lib]

60. If making fun of people who practice ritualized cannibalism and worship

multiple gods is bigotry, count me in.

[Initech]

44. Yeah, really, at my house there were maybe 4 trick-or-treaters last night.

Meanwhile the local church down the street, there were cars going around the block for their annual "Halloween alternative". :eyes:

[noel711]

45. Sadly, there are "*!!~christians~!!*" and then there's those of us....

who follow Jesus and try to live the way of peace.

It's those "*!!~christians~!!*" who get all the
great press with their showy protests of the funerals
of service people, and their ransack of the Terry Schiavo
debacle...

And so those of us who try to take Jesus' words seriously get
painted with the broad brush of those small minded
pharisees.... of which Jesus constantly conflicted.

And anyone with a brain knows that every single Christian HOly Day
parallels every natural solstice, and natural event (i.e. a pagan
holy day). Big whoop. It doesn't mean we are going to hell.

But it's much easier to be judgmental and to assume they known what
is in God's mind, and to threaten, bully, intimidate and harrass,
then to allow people to live their own lives. Sounds like what's
going on in Washington, eh?

Yes, I follow Jesus, but I shudder when people ask if I am
christian. I do not want to be associated with that cult.

[bighart]

49. Thank you for saying exactly

what I was thinking. Being a true disciple of Christ is not about opposing this or that, it is about walking the same way that Christ walked. He stood up to the religious establishment on so many occasions it was what got him killed. His compassion and inclusiveness are what true Christians should be trying to model.

[regnaD kciN]

54. I used to make a point of drawing the distinction between fundies and Christians...

...when this sort of thing came up on DU threads, going on at great length to show that fundamentalists were only a narrow group with out-of-the-mainstream theological ideas and screwy politics, and to point out that the essence of Christianity is far more in line with liberalism than conservatism.

However, I've come to realize that these efforts are futile because, like it or not, there are a lot of people here fully invested in the notion that Christianity = fundamentalism, because it allows them to dismiss the former out-of-hand. They don't want to recognize that only a narrow band of Christianity is of the Robertson/Falwell/Bauer stripe, because they then would have to give Christianity a modicum of respect that they don't want to have to do. So, being able to paint all Christians as fundamentalists serves their purpose just as much as does the fundamentalist tendency to paint all homosexuals as the promiscuous S&M types and/or the handful of pedophiles.

Now, I've ceased "defending Christianity" to those for whom, in the immortal words of religious philosopher Rod Stewart, "there ain't no point in talkin' 'cause there's nobody listening," and, instead, call them on their bigotry so that others can see how they're acting from prejudice just as much as are those frothing at the mouth about "Islamofascists" or "illegals."

[gatorboy]

56. Amen...

And Halleluja!

[AspenRose]

72. Well said

I don't bother anymore either. What's the point when a mind is already made up? :shrug:

[Igel]

46. Non-street-level trick-or-treating

goes back a ways.

In Eugene in the '80s they encouraged parents to get together Halloween parties to keep the kids off the street. Same in Los Angeles when I was there: Get the kids together, have lots of candy and fun, have them dress up. No chance of getting bum candy, getting attacked or in fights (since a lot of kids otherwise aren't watched well), and no chance of getting hit by a car.

Works for me. Haven't had more than 2-3 trick-or-treaters in any given year since, oh, '85 maybe?

Thing is, it's regional, and probably spreading. If we kept Halloween (I'm one of those Christians that simply sees no point in it), we'd take our kid to some central spot. Then the kids could all form a pack, the adults could all form a pack, and we'd all be happier and (presumably) safer.

[Arugula Latte]

64. I think that's sad. To me, there's nothing like house-to-house trick or treating.

Some of my fondest memories as a kid are of trick or treating all the hell over the neighborhood (I don't really recall the parties, although I know I went to a few). My kids have had an absolute ball on Halloween. Yesterday we went to a little village area in Portland where the merchants were giving out candy, and then later on we did some hardcore neighborhood trick or treating. It's so much fun, and I hope that tradition only gets stronger.

[Sal Minella]

53. ....pox chickana?

[regnaD kciN]

55. Oh my gods! It's the War On Halloween...!!!!

Start the boycotts now!!!

:sarcasm:

[stirlingsliver]

63. Agreed!

It's time to stop the war against Halloween.

Hardly any trick or treaters showed up at my place last night.

Kids nowadays need more sugary treats.