Why didn't OUR party fight as hard as the GOP does when it was in the minority?

[Ken Burch]

On tactics and determination(NOT on issues)we need to learn from them.

They are a minority that gives no quarter.

Our minority from 2001 to 2007 did nothing but cave.

They filibustered. We didn't.

They mobilize their base. Our leaders dissed theirs.

Is there any reason why our minority caucuses didn't fight as hard as theirs do?

Did Good ol' W.B. Yeats call it yet again:

"the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity"?

[bonito]

1. K&R for responses

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

50. Because they aren't the lying, whoring, barbaric, immoral assholes the GOP is? nt

[AuntPatsy]

2. Because we once believed in democracy and that it could not be attacked

which is what happened. Do you wish that we when in the majority had displayed the same misuse of power that those in this new administration are quilty of doing?

[jaksavage]

7. yes

I wish we misused our power are turned the tide against evil and toward good and if we had to crack a few heads in the process... so be it. But we didn't and we won't. Fools, idealists.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Because we have only one party in this country

[Cha]

5. Yeah, the CorporateWhore Party.

With politicians like Kennedy, Kucinich, Jan Schakowsky, the Progressive Caucus, et al very much in the minority.

[Cha]

4. Don't even know.

You'd think Dems would fight harder for the truth than recons would fight for lies and death..but you'd be wrong.

[movonne]

6. Listen to the george carlin on the post above yours and you will

know why...

[opihimoimoi]

8. The Pub Party is focused on one thing...CONTROL...if they are, then they DOMINATE

Thats the GOP BOSSES....the Field Pubs are mostly followers..

Our DEM Party is a big tent...fractionalized/fragmented....but our Ideals of doing whats best for the Country holds us together dissing those selfish Pubs...

The Major Issue is TRACK RECORD...the GOP's Record over the past 6 years or so....it sucks...it reveals the GOP is 2 faced...talk of loving Country but does things mostly benefiting the Rich...that gives a CLUE?

All the Dems have to do is reject WEDGE ISSUES as SUCH... and ask of their RECORD...ask the GOP to show what good they did for America...

Never mind the small empty language distractions...lets see them answer Big Solutions for big problems....they would die....cause they ain't got shit cept small moot shit...

[KharmaTrain]

9. Democrats Are Not Droids

Bitch as we may about Blue Dogs...and I'm working to get one un-elected in my area...the Democratic party is truly a big tent. It covers a wide range of people and interests from the inner cities to rural towns. It covers far more diverse constituencies than the Repugnicans and each Representative is allowed to vote their conscience or what they feel best represents their district. It's a big family and getting everyone to agree isn't always easy.

Inversely, Repugnicans are tethered by the pocketbook. Their focus is far narrower and usually favor the rich and powerful as that's who put them there and keep them there. For many years, Democrats failed to contest these people...focusing only on winning national elections while party infrastructure on the local level vanished. It's how the Democrats got themselves in such a hole a couple years ago.

I still fault Reid for not calling Frist's bluff on the nuclear option in the SCOTUS nominations. Yes, that was a definite cave, but the House was another story. Under DeLay, Democrats could barely use the water fountain in the place. Unlike Democrats who believe in representative Democracy, the Repugnicans used all sorts of tricks and tactics that prevented Democrats from offering legislation (unless it was to name a Post Office) or would push bills into committee where it would be deep sixed that way.

One point that is very valid is the ability for them to mobilize their base...but it's easy to do. They have the Mighty Wurlitzer...stenographers, hate radio vermin and sockpuppets who dominated the airwaves and were able to frame the message. Democrats didn't have such a radio platform until AAR came along (and it hasn't really grown) and Olbermann on TV. But then our base is a lot more diverse with many interests...not a white guys club that rewards "party discipline" with large amounts of cash.

[Tesha]

32. Maybe we need a smaller tent full of people who actually stand for something?

A small tent crowded with people woul dbe better than a
bi, spacious, empty tent.

Maybe it's finally time to stand for some democratic
(yes, small "d" democratic) values? And to chuck out
the politicians who'd rather be Republicans so they
can go be Republicans and help confuse the Republican
message (instead of ours) for a few decades?

Tesha

[KharmaTrain]

36. So Who Gets Excluded?

Whose issues are more important than others? Which people do we turn away? Sorry...I appreciate the fact the Democratic Party represents the interests of so many different people and causes. Just because your issues aren't getting priority doesn't mean people who don't agree should be kicked out of the party. Got a problem with a Party representative, that's what the electoral process is for...organize and get candidates to your liking elected.

[Tesha]

37. I think we all know who should get excluded.

I think we all know who should get excluded.

We should exclude:

o Any Democrat who isn't wholeheartedly for racial equality.

o Any Democrat who isn't wholeheartedly for sexual equality.

o Any Democrat who isn't wholeheartedly for religious
equality *COMBINED* with complete support for the
principal of the *COMPLETE* separation of Church
and State.

o Any Democrat who thinks people aren't *ALL* entitled to
food, housing, health care, and education.

o Any Democrat who doesn't think that a fair and honest
electoral process is *THE BEDROCK* of a functioning
democracy.

o Any Democrat who thinks five corporations should
dominate the media

o Any Democrat who supports wars of aggression

o Any Democrat who doesn't think preservation of the
planet's environment is important.

Tesha

[KharmaTrain]

38. Be More Specific Please...

I'd be curious whose on your list. Most Democrats I support stand for those things...a lot closer than any Repugnican. However, when it comes to Congress, in specific, all politics are local. Each candidate runs on issues that mean the most to their constituents and in the more Conservative areas can't run on "Liberal" platforms. The interests of those in Lower Manhattan are different than those in South Central LA are different than those in the Colonia of Texas are different than the heartland of Kansas. So who gets excluded? Do the voices and votes of your chosen faves mean more than those you disagree with? Isn't that what a fair and honest electoral process is about?

[Tesha]

40. All you need to do is cross off the Democrats who don't hold those values.

As a quick guesstimate, I'd guess that that means nearly
every "Democrat" from Dixie; it certainly seems to mean
however few Democratic Senators from Dixie still remain
since they routinely and proudly vote against the party.

And my proposed purge of the party/trimming of the tent
doesn't have anything to do with excluding voices or
changing elections: these clowns can still be elected,
they just can't call themselves Democrats because they
*AREN'T* and by using the term Democrat to describe
themselves, it muddies our message to the rest of the
country, leaving people completely uncertain as to
what Democrats actually stand for. In fact, it leaves
people uncertain that we stand for *ANYTHING*.

Businesses work hard to defend their "brand" all the
time; Democrats ought to do the same.

Tesha

[KharmaTrain]

44. Again...Names Please

Who gets trimmed and where do they and those who vote for them go? So we kick out folks like Mary Landreau and Debbie Wasserman-Shultz?

Sorry...I am not for supporting a one-note, lock-step party. If I felt that way, I'd be a Repugnican.

So whose excluded and who determines who is excluded?

[silverojo]

10. Because they're too pussified nowadays

That, and the fact that half the time, they're just as big of corporatist whores as their Repuke counterparts.

[kath]

17. Uh, could you please change the word "pussified" to "gutless" or "spineless" or

"lily-livered", etc.
As is, your post is pretty damned offensive to half the population...

[Cobalt-60]

20. lily livered is nice

[pnwmom]

11. We have fewer fanatics. Also, they are taking marching orders

from the Decider.

Our guys are less likely to want to take marching orders from anyone.

[Frances]

12. I think the Democrats were in a transition phase.

During the Depression, FDR's message of government helping people resonated with most voters.

After World War II, Congress passed the GI bill that paid almost all college expenses for vets. AS a result, thousands of vets went from the lower class into the middle class.

Also after World War II, the Marshall plan gave money to the Europeans so they could give it back to companies on the U.S. who were producing goods the Europeans needed. This plan helped keep the factories going and gave jobs to returning vets. The unions bargained for good wages, good health plans, and good retirements. More working class people moved into the middle class this way.

Then Reagan came along and convinced enough of these people and their children that they had moved into the middle class all by themselves with no help from the government.

Reagan convinced these middle class people that the government was taking their money and giving it to welfare queens.

I personally couldn't believe that so many people fell for Reagan's lies, but they did.

Reagan also went to Mississippi and made a speech that whites interpreted as making respectable their racist views.

The Democrats were demoralized by the success of REpubs' appeal to greed, respectable racism, and, with Bush, religiousity.

[leftofthedial]

13. "democrats" are not on our side

and most of the members of Congress with a "D" by their names are "democrats"

[ljm2002]

14. Because they threatened us...

...with things like the "nuclear option" (ending the filibuster altogether).

Of course, had that happened, then our hands would not have been so tied this session, since they wouldn't have been able to filibuster.

Weakness, lack of conviction, disunity, and fear. Deadly combination.

[Robbien]

15. Half of our party is working WITH the GOPers

We are the majority in name only. With the DLC/BlueDogs working with GOPers in almost every instance, we are effectively emasculated.

When the GOPers were the majority, they were united. And not only united with themselves, they also got the DLC/BlueDogs to go along with them on most votes.

[Tesha]

33. Bingo.

It's for *THIS REASON* that we have no "Democratic"
message to give to people: half our elected officials
support Republican values such as racism, sexism,
hompophobia, and the value of the completely unbridled,
unregulated market.

Tesha

[Jax]

52. Agree Robbien

DLC/BlueDogs=b*sh democrats to me. Tired of them holding the Democratic Party hostage to the reich wing. Sickening.

Great post.

Alyce

[upi402]

16. 'zactly! The reason why...

is not incompetence. It's something else.

Our Republic has no 4th estate and no opposition party. What are the odds of its survival???

[Tesha]

34. Odds: Poor. (NT)

[OHdem10]

18. Our party has 2 specific wings which creates a situation

in which a one thoughtful position can never be reached.

Whether it is War, Terrorism, Healthcare--no matter the issue
a solid position that is supported by all cannot happen.

Our Party does not apparently believe as the GOP that the
good of the party is to be respected. The GOP believe to be effective
on serious legislation, ie, war etc--the party must vote as one.
The GOP will make their members "feel it " if they do not go
with the Party on Serious Issues. Serious Punishment. If a
Republican believes he or she cannot vote with party, they
GOP try to find Democrats to subsitute. They will try to get
a few Dems to make it appear Bipartisan. If they cannot, and
they have enough Republicans(when they were in charge) they
will push it through along party lines.This enforces their
idology.

The Democrats do not operate this way, is my understanding.
How else can a party be effective. Permitting everyone to vote
as they wish means you never have the votes.

I am not saying what is right or wrong. I am answering the question.

[Froward69]

26. they are

Goose stepping Nazis. arm And arm lockstep. vote and think as one. at least we democrats try to discuss, debate and come to a rational solution. before we march off a cliff. :sarcasm:

[sandnsea]

19. The Clintons lead the party

Why doesn't somebody ask Hillary.

[hisownpetard]

21. Because they are fanatics, and fanatics are focused bec. they allow no room for doubt.n/t

[pitohui]

22. yes basically sociopaths give no quarter and decent people do

therefore we are at an inherent disadvantage

not sure what to do about it

[Disturbed]

23. The majority of Repugs are Fascist Authoritarians.

Most Repugs are Sociopaths that will do whatever it takes to get their way. They do not compromise and they use any underhanded tactic to gain & keep their power. Dems are afraid of them, Anthrax & the NSA. Dems want to appear to be "nice" Repugs do not care how others view them. They believe that fear trumps respect.

[On the Road]

24. I Understand the Belief

that a failed impeachment process would backfire. I can understand (if not agree) the belief that not passing laws guaranteed to be vetoed is useless. I understand the limitations of having a minority who can filibuster. I can understand something of the reason behind almost everything that's gone on.

What has me apoplectic is that as far as I can tell, the Democratic leadership has been able to accomplish absolutely nothing. At all. With a majority in both houses. And moreover, half the party acts like it's scared to take a stand against Bush, who has turned almost every swing group of voters against him.


Republicans are in disarray. And the Democrats are the ones cowering. This is almost worse than having lost last November.

[Exultant Democracy]

25. Too bad we don't have congressional Plan-B.

[Tesha]

35. There's always Plan-G. After all, there's no Electoral College to force a two-party Congressional...

There's always Plan-G ;). After all, there's no Electoral College
standing in the way of a multi-party Congress.

Tesha

[Ghost in the Machine]

27. It's hard to do *anything* without a spine...

[lostnotforgotten]

28. DLC, DLC, DLC - There's Your Answer - More Importantly Though

There Is But One Answer - A Second American Revolution

Put simply, the ruling elite in this country, both Democrats and Republicans, are numb to our protestations.

They are collectively as out of touch and indifferent as the British monarchy was during our first American revolution.

They want us to behave as indifferent serfs allowing them to operate with impunity.

Prove to me that these assertions are untrue by humble observation and I might change my mind.

[jgraz]

29. Pure raw cowardice

That's the best answer I can come up with.

[LSdemocrat]

30. Completely different mentalities of the people in power

The Democrats in power today grew up in an era of center-left consensus politics where there were even under Republican presidents center-left legislation still got passed. It was an era in which bipartisanship was actually necessary since there were still plenty "liberal" and/or reasonable Republicans to overcome the votes of southern, conservative "Democrats". From the 1960's through the 1970's and even to a certain, although much lesser, extent through the 1980's, whenever a pressing need developed, conservatives and liberals would fight fairly and responsibly, but eventually the center-left would broker a grand compromise that would solve the problem to a certain extent.

Today's "conservatives" on the other hand grew up despising the above described consensus politics. First they went after their own party, firing the first shot in 1964 with the Goldwater candidacy and finally winning their own party for good throughout the 1980-90's. Their goal is to dismantle the modest achievements of the consensus era by any means necessary. Ultimately as they discovered through the 1964 election, their bare agenda was remarkably unpopular. At this point they knew that they would have to use any means necessary to reach their goal. They fight by hook and by crook because they have to and, since 1964, have raised a generation of "conservatives" who don't know how to play politics any other way.

Ultimately, until we achieve wholesale generational within the Democratic caucus, the current mindset is unlikely to change.

[Perry Logan]

31. When you start wishing Democrats were more like Republicans, it's time to take a break.

[JohnnyBoots]

39. Too many DLC Hufflepuffs and not enough Gryffindors. n/t

[Tesha]

41. Not Hufflepuffs, Slytherins. They *ACTIVELY ENJOY* working with Voldemort! (NT)

[JohnnyBoots]

42. I'd say it's an even mix of both. n/t

[The Stranger]

43. Ralph Nader was right.

[w4rma]

45. DLCer threats to defect. (nt)

[Raffi Ella]

46. I've been telling myself

it's because Democrats are grown ups but that's getting harder and harder to believe.

I know there aren't enough votes to really get anything done and it's compounded by the republiCON pResident Criminal iDiot but...still.

We gotta get the WhiteHouse back.All of it.That's our only hope.

[dave123williams]

47. In a word, 'spinlessness'.

[Ken Burch]

53. I like that one. And it's true

Our people don't know how to spin worth a damn. They always let the Right control the news narrative.

[Vidar]

48. You haven't read the script. We are the "designated loser" party.

Lots of political posturing & theater, with no real democracy in sight.

[superkia]

49. Most of them are secretly on the same team.

Allot of politicians enjoy the power of doing anything you want, excepting money for favors. The power and the wealth has corrupted the system and when you have someone try to stand up and say and do the right things, they get ignored or ridiculed and the public follows the lead. Dennis Kucinich for example.

[rucky]

51. That's why us "dem bashers" are so pissed! n/t

[BlooInBloo]

54. Like Atrios said - they understand the game far better than our side does...

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_09_30_archive.html#6891318353535280707