Is The "American Dream" Dead? What Is Your Experience?

[The Cleaner]

With so many issues bombarding the Middle Class at present, I'd like to know what everyone at DU thinks about the "American Dream."

Is it still alive? Or is it on a fast track to a certain and violent death? If so, what will replace it?

[blues90]

1. It's dead .

I don't know how it can be revived at the rate things are going , sorry to say .

I don't even know what middle class means anymore .

I fear there will be never ending wars and mass murder for profit and all will become a surreal version of the book 1984 .

We have been lulled by fiction and lies and those who have fallen off the ride have no way or desire to write a book about their experience of loss .

[asjr]

8. You nailed it Blues! Dreams

can keep one going for a while, but eventually those dreams become nightmares and all bets are off.

[msongs]

2. if the "dream" means building a successful and happy life, it is not dead

despite the moans of the victim class one can still have a happy and successful life if one knows what one wants and takes the necessary ACTION to achieve it.

are there institutional and cultural road blocks? certainly

For every alleged reason a person thinks is responsible for his/her lack of success one can find people who overcame those "reasons".

Msongs
www.youtube/videos/msongs

[Lars39]

5. "Victim class"? Like those in the 70% increase needing food stamps

in Ohio?

[amandabeech]

17. How long have you been on this planet?

What was your family like?

And why are you a Democrat?

[Doremus]

24. Victim class? With that sort of attitude I'm surprised you call yourself a Democrat

"Victim class," "take responsibility," "I did it, ergo everyone should be able to do it," these are all code words for "get the stinking welfare queens off the dole."

But you knew that already, didn't you?

[whistle]

3. The American Dream is in palliative care and at the moment is comfortable

...but it is terminal

[kineneb]

if a family member has a chronic illness, certainly

My choice is between getting a part-time job (no benefits), and having Hubby lose his Medicaid (and coverage for his many meds), or staying at home, caring for him and working odd jobs for cash under the table. And we are stuck in this situation until he dies.

In the current Amerika, do not get sick.

[rucky]

4. I was just laid off by a charter school...

who thought they could save more money by eliminating a teacher and growing the size of the other 5th grade classes to 36. Privitization sure can do the government's job more efficiently, can't it?

[seabeyond]

6. i think it is easily still doable depending on what the "dream" is.

i think looking at the "dream" is a whole other issue. in the past the dream was through work would be able to buy a home, feed the kids and sav e to retirement. today i think it is more we "deserve" and not so much effort to attain these things. and the deserve seems to be beyond what i conclude the dream to be. so the whole dream issue needs to be clarified.

yes i think it is still there. but... that being said i think there are forces thru out society that is making it scary about whether the dream is truly possible. like our health insurance. even fulfilling the contract of what society expects, health insurance is in crisis and makes it undoable (not there yet, getting there) leaving the possibility of one illness taking a family down

retirement. in the past people were able to work in an industry for a lifetime and have the packages that allowed retirement and i think that opportunity is shrinking.

[pitohui]

19. say what?

so if we are totally wild dreamers who dream of, say, having children AND being able to retire, then we are SOL

agree if you define dream as being able to afford cat food, the dream is still alive

most people define the american dream as to being able to afford home ownership, a car for each adult in the family, college for the children, and retirement for the old people

if that is too greedy a dream, then fuck america, because that is pretty damn modest

[seabeyond]

42. say what back acha

"in the past the dream was through work would be able to buy a home, feed the kids and save to retirement. "

sorry i left out car ownership for all driving members and college.

no where did i define american dream as afford cat food. i am thinking you totally made a bogus argument here

[Tyo]

7. What is the American Dream anyway?

Is it basically about money and things?

My partner is Japanese. He has asked me more than once to explain the American Dream to him and I can't seem to come up with a good definition. I get the feeling that there might be more than one.

[pitohui]

20. the american dream was popularly understood to be the dream of being able to own your own home

this is the one thing we were taught was the difference between us and other countries, that in america even middle class people could own a home

this dream is now out of the question for the middle class in wide areas of california, vegas, the usa northeast

[razors edge]

27. And even if you think you do own your home

there is still eminent domain to take it away and give it to Wall of China Mart.

[Nikia]

33. Many working class people own their own homes around here

There are a great number of houses for sale under $100,000. Some are even under $50,000. This is rural Wisconsin.
I have heard that things are completely different in other parts of the country though.

[catzies]

38. I thought it was that ,plus your children would have a life better than yours

So, by those measures I guess I'm better off than my parents, inasmuch as I did get to buy a house(and in California even!). My daughter probably won't get to buy her own house but she gets mine.

But we're both worse off than my parents because of the collapse of the social safety net. Secure retirement? I don't think I'll ever *get* to retire.

And of course one single medical emergency would wreck either of us financially and probably permanently.

[Vincardog]

9. I am one of the victims of the American Dream. I worked my way thru

college. I earned a BS and got into IT in the 1980's. I worked for 20 years and never quite caught up with where I would have been if I had kept working on the River Boats.

Then the H1Bs showed up and started driving our wage rates down.

Then the parasitic corporations started to get tax breaks to send our jobs to India.

Now there are no IT jobs left and no body wants to hire a 50+ YO person.

Where are those high paying new jobs of the future?

Oh yeah they are going to slave labor in the Chinese prisons.

I am so sorry I can't take the appropriate action to change the corrupt playing field upon which we are forced to compete.

[Bonhomme Richard]

10. I don't think so.

If by american dream you mean being somewhat in control of your destiny then I don't think it is dead.
In my own life I got tired of working for other people and started my own business in my late 40's. I gambled what retirement money I had, took a huge risk believing that I could succeed and maybe it's about to pay off. I'm in my 7th year and I finally have moved the business well into the black.
Maybe it will last and maybe it won't but I will ride the wave as long as I can stay on it.

[heidler1]

15. I quit a good job with IBM Corp. in 1978 to build houses. It worked for me,

but many went broke. I was 52 at the time and IMO if you have the ability to adjust your approach when the economy shifts, tax laws change, interest rates change, peoples desires change and any other thing that effects net profit changes it is still doable. What prompted me into taking the gamble was I designed and built a weekend place about 100 miles north of Los Angeles. It turned out quite nice and I received compliments so I saw it as an life style escape from working for others and L. A. By the way I never went to college. My decision made it possible for me to retire way more comfortable than I would have if I'd stayed with IBM which was considered a middle class job.

[pitohui]

22. as the talking heads say, it's not yesterday any more

we can't go back to 1978, i'm sure all of us would if we could

everybody who buys a lottery ticket won't win, in fact, most lose, so anecdotes from those who won the lottery are less compelling than the winners believe

[MasonJar]

11. Maybe the American dream was the wrong dream, Everyone

scurrying everywhere all the time, denigrating others who prefer a different lifestyle, never rest, never time to "smell the roses," never time for real closeness with family and friends, never enough money, etcs. does not seem a dream worth fighting for. In the school where I teach the most educated student is a young lady who just arrived a year ago from Monrovia, the second an exchange student from Turkmanstan.(sp?) Last year the top students that I had were exchange students also, one from Japan and the other Germany. This is not an indictment of public education, but rather of our provincial, sophomoric indoctrination of our young people. We do NOT demand that they take the trouble to really expand their minds; we do not demand that they suffer consequences for their lack of effort.

[originalpckelly]

12. They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.

:eyes:

[manic expression]

13. It never existed

it was always a myth (a sadistic one at that).

[pinto]

14. I think it remains a defining factor of American life. For better or worse,

as frayed as it may seem at times, as unfairly represented across the country it may be, the "American Dream" still holds a place in our sense of identity, imo. And it seems to mean different things for different people. The poster above hits a good point, I think, saying it's a hard one to define to someone born in another country and culture.

We are unabashedly self centered in our views in many ways, and it probably has been so for much of our history. And we have a sense of what it means to be an American that is hard to pin down in concrete terms.

Like all dreams, I guess, it is a mix of myth and reality.

Walt Whitman touched on our national myth:

"The genius of the United States is not best or most in its executives or legislatures, nor in its ambassadors or authors or colleges, or churches, or parlors, nor even in its newspapers or inventors, but always most in the common people."

I've always appreciated that quote.

(Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. It's an interesting question. Thanks for the post.)

[Rosemary2205]

16. I'm living it, so it definately isn't dead.

I am doing slightly better than my parents. I live in the little house I grew up in. My husband and I could not have kids so we became surrogate parents, working with the foster system and child services. We had a dream of building a camp for at risk kids on our land and after 15 years of both of us working hard we managed to do it.

We had a nearly fatal car accident about 5 years ago and had to reinvent our lives. It was bad times but we survived, we even thrived. No life is not perfect but it's pretty damn good. My being paralyzed, my husband memory problems and a bankruptcy are a pain in the ass. But overall we are grateful and happy to have the opportunity still to love, to laugh, and to be productive people.

[pitohui]

25. "my being paralyzed, my husband's memory problems, a bankruptcy"

sweet jesus, rosemary, if that is the dream, what is the nightmare?

i admire your attitude but if that is all we have to dream of and to hope for, shoot me now, you must realize that this wasn't what you dreamed of for your life when you were younger, it is what you've settled for because there is nothing achievable you can hope for

[Rosemary2205]

28. to love, to laugh, to participate is the dream.

once you get the right support and a routine to deal with it, the rest is just a nuisance.

We were given the incredible opportunity to reinvent our lives. IMHO reinventing ourselves is what America is all about.

[blues90]

44. reinvent into what ?

How many people have the resources to re-invent themselves and just what thrilling careers are out there that would inspire one to go for the gold ?

I keep hearing that now people my be changing careers every 5 years or less just to keep working , as the job market shrinks as it is doing soon there is little left to become especially when you are well past 50 .

Man may have been able to adapt to slow changes years ago but the fast pace of man trying to keep up with the never ending driving force of technology and constant schooling and training many people just can't keep up with this sort of surreal in-human american nightmare .

[Rosemary2205]

45. life isn't about money.

I currently live well below the "median" income and have always been below median. If I thought the value in life was all about having as much money as I thought I wanted I'd be a suicide victim.

I don't need money to push the government to make obtaining healthcare easier and punishments for drunk drivers much worse - I need passion.

[blues90]

47. I agree it's not about money

But you do need a job to have a life at all and this is what I am facing right now .

[pitohui]

18. it's dead

working hard will just get you another day older and deeper in debt, wages/benefits have not come even close to keeping up w. increased costs

the dream continues to be sold because people selling expensive educations profit by lying to us -- they are selling women on the big lie that if they just get a master's or a doctorate one day they too will be allowed to get a "real" job -- and just enough are allowed to succeed to keep other young women fooled but, look around you, we women spend more on education and get way way way less back in dollars on the job

the dream ends up torturing the dreamer, who has very little chance of success and in the end loses her youth to striving after what can't be achieved, esp. if she doesn't start out in upper middle class to begin with

it's probably always been a lie except for the 1950s-1970s but now it's a totally cruel joke with home ownership actually out of reach of regular people in entire areas of the country

[jakem]

21. the dream is not dead...

but what is different is the reality of what it takes to succeed in america.

working for a company to guarantee your future is dead.

getting an education, with the assumption that a job waits for you at the end, and it is a job that will pay for the education and then some- dead.

american success stories, with the possible exceptions of brief blips of financial plenty where everyone gains, has always been one of building a better life through craft, guile, wits, guts, and brains (not in any order there..)

no one has, or will ever hand this success to you or anyone else.

working for other people trades the likelihood for success in exchange for a promise of some security (questionable these days).

----

having said that, there is a social obligation that needs to be met to assist those without the basic neccesities of life so that they may also have the luxury to dream bigger dreams. it is hard to build success when you are just trying to feed your family.

[pitohui]

23. then what on earth do you suggest? a life of crime?

it is no longer possible to be self-employed or take a flyer on your own business because the cost of providing health insurance/health care outside of a large group plan is simply not do-able any longer in most states

the only responsible option that exists at all is to get a job at a large company where you can be sure of having health insurance/care available to your family

the person who gambles his family's health on a dream is a cold-hearted SOB indeed

[jakem]

30. you dont have to remind me of insurance costs...

I live in massachusetts. trust me, i know the cost of insurance.

insurance reform is a not unrelated topic, but it is not so much more expensive to buy into an insurance plan for self employed people in many places than what you pay out of your employer issues paycheck.

you still need to figure out how to make a living being self employed, and insurance is a part of that. If the main concern is family coverage (and again, i get it, i am living this scenario), then maybe one spouse is employed with a plan. maybe the business is started during off hours from employment until it is viable.

there is risk to the american dream. there always has been.

i agree that health insurance is a major impediment, thus yet another reason for a new way of looking at universal care-

our society is geared toward generating good worker drones, from elementary school onward- ironically, the 'american dream' involves escaping the american reality...

[jakem]

31. and besides...

a life of crime does not provide insurance anyway-

unless it is a government position!

[applegrove]

26. It isn't dead. Just dormant till these middle class haters are out of office.

[Annces]

29. We should be boycotting China

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

[The Cleaner]

32. Joe vs. the Volcano?

n/t

[Annces]

40. Merle Travis 1947

Written about working in a coal mine. A lot of artists have done covers on it including Johnny Cash.

[sweetheart]

34. Yes, a dream requires a dreamer

The dreamer is alive, the dreamer will die. Many dreamers have died.

What is the dream? I would contend that the dream is not 'american dream(TM)',
but the desire to get off the wheel of this militarist fast race to nowhere.

What kind of dream does the government get away with demolishing 2 towers out from under the citizens?
What has replaced it is poverty of staggering proportions, social poverty of being asset stripped
by wankers for 50 years, wankers for imperial adventures and a dollar collapse.

The dream be just to survive the cataclism of stupidity without getting wet.

[Nikia]

35. A 4 year degree isn't worth what it was in the past

I see jobs wanting a 4 year degree and sometimes experience with it that pay under $12/hour. There are a number of college graduates that don't get jobs that require degrees either.
A 4 year degree no longer means that when you graduate that you will automatically be middle class.

[blues90]

36. For many it is a dream just to get through the month

I was doing pretty well during the years of 2003 and 2004 until the bottom fell out of the auto industry .

If one has the support of other family members such as used to be the case they may be in case you fall .

My parents did well but by the time they retired they spent all their money saved on medical expenses . By the time my mother passed away she had nothing .

I worked many sorts of jobs through the years , all some sort of trade . Now at 57 forget the hell about working in any trade because the competition is too difficult and the pay is too low .

When I started out you could train on the job and work your way up which I did . Now these jobs are all changed and the rules have changed .

Now any sort of replacement job pays little and requires computer experience even for low pay , experience a high school grad has already .

How would one know the world would change so fast and you would find yourself left far behind .

I am not looking for a dream , just stability that is no longer there .

People are entering the work force much faster than jobs can ever keep up with .

I can forget a home of my own or that new car , all I fight for is basic necessity like a roof and food and utilities .

If you happened to pick a career that still lives today and you can work the job at an older age I consider this luck or good choices made in the past years . If not , you are basically screwed even if healthy .

Employers don;t give a shit other than to do things on the cheap and the back break .

[shadowknows69]

37. Let's see. Just a personal list

I'm highly trained in radio and media production and used to be a local celebrity on the radio now I drive taxi for a living. I'm more than likely going to die very young due to the fact I've had no health insurance most of my life and problems are excalating and my wife works two jobs and we barely net 18k a year. Yep, dead over here.

[MedleyMisty]

39. So everyone has lots of money to start with?

I mean, if everyone can just go and start their own business and be successful and rich, everyone must therefore have the money to start the business, right?

I take pictures for a property management company. I'm not involved in anything outside the pictures, but I do notice quite a lot of late notices going out every month and quite a few padlocks later in the month. I'm sure those people could easily just go out and start their own business if they really wanted to, right? They're just too lazy to go and pick the money off the money trees in their apartment complex/slum.

[hfojvt]

41. my experience is not likely to be as valid as a statistical analysis

We all tend to know people in our own group. Most of the factory workers I have known were doing alright. My siblings are upper middle class, and my co-workers generally have good jobs like I do. I do not see, nor have I gotten to know very many of the street people. I am doing okay now, but in my experience it was very hard for me to find a job, any job at all, after I graduated from college, much less any job that utilized at all my degrees in either math, physics, statistics or economics.

[HeeBGBz]

43. Dead as the proverbial doornail

For me anyway.

[Odin2005]

46. It never really existed in the first place.

The "American Dream" is right-wing Social Darwinist propaganda.

[PLF]

49. The "American Dream" is right-wing Social Darwinist propaganda.

exactly

[Jim Warren]

48. dreams and nightmares

How completely without conscience this phrase is, an empty hollow hypnotist lullaby perpetrated by a ruling class to keep the peasants entranced.

Though probably around in various manipulative forms from earlier in our history (move west-settle territories-kill indians)it's modern version arose after WWII with the demise of the world manufacturing base after we bombed the shit out of the factories in Europe and East Asia.

The US had the means, IE the factories, and the market to rebuild the world, and all that was needed was cheap resources. Much to the loss of course to those places that were exploited to obtain them.

We, the workers, supplied the labor in exchange for The American Dream.

To add insult to injury, the WTO/New World Order capital brokers have abandoned the American worker and their precious dream yet some are still sycophantic enough
to still be chanting the last stanzas of the free trade trance.

The fucking american dream, don't ya see, is one of if not the major causes of so-called terrorism today.

People the world over have gotten wise to what is going on.

[PLF]

50. And people wonder how the "third world" came to be.

[Jim Warren]

54. Gunboats, police squads and

cia planted oligarchs.

Not, as often insinuated, because they lack ambition.

[PLF]

57. exactly

[mattclearing]

51. It's alive and well...in Canada and Australia.

:)

[GirlinContempt]

52. Was it ever alive?

[Midlodemocrat]

53. I don't think it's dead.

I have a lot of neighbors here who are just making ends meet, but they seem really, really happy.

I also have a lot of neighbors who apparently shit money. Some of them seem really, really happy as well.

Let's not forget the issue of middle class entitlement either. If you are born white, middle class, you, at birth, have a leg up on those who weren't. Denying this won't make it not so.

[Pavulon]

55. No

I had the chance to go to college with tuition assistance from the government (gi bill) and have a job I enjoy. My wife enjoys her work in medicine. I have seen the free fall systems in place in other countries. I have seen countries that do a better job of taking care of the unemployed, disabled, or those who need help.

But all in all America provides a place for people to excel. It is a great country.

[Geek_Girl]

56. I think I'm living it for now

But I worry about my future.

I had a really good government job in IT. I left that for a corporate job. Holly crap was that a mistake. I'm hoping to get back to my old job soon. I own my house and I live a middle class lifestyle. I guess I'm living the dream. But It's like walking a type rope. I feel vulnerable to layoffs and cut backs. Forget about getting a decent raise or promotion and the work place is very competitive. I recently started my own ebay business selling metaphysical and wiccan items. I'm hopping that will be successful.