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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:28 AM Original message |
Homophobia exists independent of Sen. Craig. Homophobia strongly contributed to his behavior... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:30 AM Response to Original message |
1. But gays like Craig who fuel the fires in his public life DO contribute to homophobia. |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:30 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. I actually find him far less reprehenisble than straight bigots. nt. |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:32 AM Response to Reply #2 |
3. FIXED |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:33 AM Response to Reply #3 |
4. That may be your assertion. It is certainly not mine. nt. |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:36 AM Response to Reply #4 |
8. Hmmm |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:40 AM Response to Reply #8 |
10. I'm not suggesting anything. I would be interested to see the... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:41 AM Response to Reply #10 |
12. Of course not -- suggesting something would mean actually being accountable. |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:49 AM Response to Reply #12 |
17. Again with the suggesting. My statement is rather clear... |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 11:28 AM Response to Reply #17 |
61. There Has Always Been A Party Or A Group Of Activists Agitating For Civil Rights |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 11:34 AM Response to Reply #61 |
62. I cannot speak for other countries.... |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 11:41 AM Response to Reply #62 |
64. The Majority |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 11:44 AM Response to Reply #64 |
65. More specifically, I think the majority of this country are.... |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 11:24 AM Response to Reply #10 |
60. I Don't Understand |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:33 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. Why? They grew up in the same society. He actually did something far worse because |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:41 AM Response to Reply #5 |
11. I feel that people can be fundamentally shaped by their environment... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:43 AM Response to Reply #11 |
13. So no one is accountable? They're just shaped? What makes Craig any less |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:47 AM Response to Reply #13 |
16. Were they the actual focus of the hatred? nt. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:49 AM Response to Reply #16 |
18. All the more reason to hold them less accountable. To them it's an abstract. But Craig |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:50 AM Response to Reply #18 |
20. So you do not think that people are shaped from a young age... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:52 AM Response to Reply #20 |
23. Sure. They are also responsible for their own choices. And in the case of Craig, he |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:57 AM Response to Reply #23 |
26. I disagree. A lifetime of hatred can lead to self loathing.... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:00 AM Response to Reply #26 |
27. That's quite insulting to gays. We are just as responsible for our behavior as heteros. |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:05 AM Response to Reply #27 |
28. I don't think the phenomena is limited to gays... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:06 AM Response to Reply #28 |
29. It's still totally insulting. I grew up in a homophobic environment, so somehow that |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:08 AM Response to Reply #29 |
30. Obviously you would seem to be mentally stronger than someone like Craig.... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:10 AM Response to Reply #30 |
32. It makes him a total asshole of a human being. And it makes him a victimizer. |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:14 AM Response to Reply #32 |
34. We obviously disagree. I find it difficult to blame a person that has... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:15 AM Response to Reply #34 |
35. We do. But you may only think that because you've been told to think that, and don't know better. |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:22 AM Response to Reply #35 |
36. I am a member of a minority, and so have seen firsthand the... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:24 AM Response to Reply #36 |
37. I'm sure you think that you think so. This is likely the result of some issue - |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:28 AM Response to Reply #37 |
38. As I am sure that you don't actually believe that someone would choose... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:29 AM Response to Reply #38 |
40. Since you don't feel you're accountable for your choices, it's quite impossible |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:36 AM Response to Reply #40 |
44. Since you feel that environment has no effect on hateful behavior... |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 11:39 AM Response to Reply #34 |
63. You're Conflating |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:57 AM Response to Reply #11 |
52. However, over a period of years one can overcome many prejudices |
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goddess40 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:37 AM Response to Reply #2 |
9. I find them all disgusting |
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hobbit709 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:34 AM Response to Reply #1 |
7. Ditto on that |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:34 AM Response to Original message |
6. Seeing his press conference denials for the umpteenth time this morning on GMA and my local news, |
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soothsayer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:44 AM Response to Reply #6 |
14. Yep, me too. I feel sorry for him and other repressed folks. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:44 AM Response to Original message |
15. Homophobia does not exist independently. It is made and sustained by people, including Craig. |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:53 AM Response to Reply #15 |
24. But I see it as circular hatred. Inculcated self hatred and that hatred |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:55 AM Response to Reply #24 |
25. I'm sure it is hellish - but it's a hell of his own creation, and maintenance. |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:09 AM Response to Reply #25 |
31. I don't know, some gays raised in that culture have been able to get away and come out |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:12 AM Response to Reply #31 |
33. The probleem isn't his self destructive behavior but his destructiveness turned |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:31 AM Response to Reply #33 |
41. that was my point about "circular hatred" projected out and projected |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:50 AM Response to Original message |
19. Actually, I'm willing to bet that the more homophobic someone is, the |
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LostinVA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:34 AM Response to Reply #19 |
43. Yes -- and KKK members are secretly black |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:51 AM Response to Reply #43 |
49. Wow, apples and oranges. |
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LostinVA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:53 AM Response to Reply #49 |
50. How so? |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 10:02 AM Response to Reply #50 |
54. Race vs. behavior. White KKK guys hate blacks for whatever reason |
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LostinVA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 10:05 AM Response to Reply #54 |
56. I can tell it's been awhile since Psych 101 for you |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 10:01 AM Response to Reply #43 |
53. I can't say that I agree with that claim. nt. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 10:12 AM Response to Reply #43 |
59. The unfortunate truth we know is that SOME people who are homosexually oriented |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:37 AM Response to Reply #19 |
45. Your theory is that gays are responsible for the hatred they face. nt. |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:50 AM Response to Reply #45 |
48. Uh, no. I'm not assigning blame. |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:55 AM Response to Reply #48 |
51. what do you base your theory on? how many homophobes are gay themselves? nt. |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 10:06 AM Response to Reply #51 |
57. Just my personal instinct. The more someone does everything he |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:50 AM Original message |
and for the first time, i absolutely agree with you. |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:50 AM Response to Original message |
21. and for the first time, i absolutely agree with you. |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 08:52 AM Response to Reply #21 |
22. not the first time. we only recall the bad times never the good. nt. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:28 AM Response to Original message |
39. Was Craig not the one self-righteously denouncing Bill Clinton? |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:31 AM Response to Reply #39 |
42. It is certainly a case of a man publicly denying who he is in a society that vilifies him |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:39 AM Response to Original message |
46. IA, the majority are probably fundies |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 09:41 AM Response to Reply #46 |
47. the majority of homophobes? nt. |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 10:03 AM Response to Reply #47 |
55. I don't know |
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Major Hogwash (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-29-07 10:10 AM Response to Original message |
58. Perhaps, but Craig was this way clear back in the 70's, before he went to Congress. |
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