14 US troops die in copter crash in Iraq - and it's MECHANICAL - right away!

[Bluebear]

"The military said initial indications showed the aircraft experienced a mechanical problem and was not brought down by hostile fire, but the cause of the crash was still under investigation."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070822/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

==

My ass. How come when there is a civilian jet crash we hear "it may be weeks or months before a cause can be determined..." But dammit, when something like this happens to our men and women in Iraq en masse , by George, it's mechanical. These are mighty unreliable helicopters, then.

Surge, shmurge, 3243, 3318, 3820, 4890, 6293, 9818, how many will be enough, Congress? SHUT THIS WAR DOWN.

[B Calm]

1. What, no Black Hawk Down movies?

[Bluebear]

2. I saw The Jessica Lynch Story, and I do mean story.

That was enough for me.

[skip fox]

3. Will 14 be added to the data if they maintan it's mechanical? I'm building a list of useful links.

Please send useful data links to me: [email protected] and I'll add prior to report.

This is primarily a list of hot links DUers can use to put the "surge" in perspective by giving valuable data on the war, it costs in lives, blood, and treasure for both the Americans as well as the Iraqis and contractors. PLEASE SEND MORE LINKS AND I WILL ADD THEM and periodically repost this document in expand form. It sould be easy to use.

Prelminary important data from http://icasualties.org/oif / (see below).

Deaths: | US/UK | Iraqi

9/06   | 75   | 3539
10/06  | 108 | 1539
11/06  |  76  | 1864
12/06  | 113 | 1752
1/07   |  86  | 1802
2/07   |  84  | 3014
3/07   |  84  | 2977
4/07   | 116  | 1821
5/07   | 129  | 1980
6/07   | 108  | 1345
7/07   |  88  | 1690
8/07   | 53+ | 1194+

(Iraqi deaths are civilians and soldiers.)

NOTE: Whereas American deaths in July declined by nearly 21 deaths from the average of the previous two months (128 & 108), the Iraqi deaths increased by almost 20 in July from the average of the previous two months (1,345 & 1,690), which makes the overall killing pretty level from May to the present.




LIST OF LINKS TO STATISTICS


CAUSUALITY STATS:



Iraq Coalition Casualty Count provided the list at the top of this page and is a great first place to go for reliable data

http://icasualties.org/oif /


It has a number of tables charting such things as numbers of deaths (by time and country) medical evacuations (by service), wounded (by week), and so forth. A Great site for collecting initial stats. It also contains links to fatalities and injuries by state, services, etc., and one to contractor causalities.



Military Deaths in the Conquest of Iraq

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html

Provides two fine graphs showing number of US deaths since March 2003. One is a bar graph giving a month-by-month number of killed. The top one shows the total number of deaths which notes several relevant historical occurrences.



US Causalities in Iraq

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

Provides a table for a month-by-month list of the numbers of US dead and wounded and two bar graphs below it which the some information in visual form. (Herein you can note that some of the summer months have had the fewest causalities. It's probably has hard to kill in 114 degree heat as it is to do anything else.)





OVERALL STATS:


From the Saban Center for Middle East Policy, Brookings' The Iraq Index
http://www.brookings.edu/iraqindex
attempts to provide "a statistical compilation of economic, public opinion, and security data. . . . updated information on various criteria, including crime, telephone and water service, troop fatalities, unemployment, Iraqi security forces, oil production, and coalition troop strength." It has hundreds of graphs in a month-by-month statistical assement of the war in pdf. format which provide very nuanced (and valuable for someone willing to dig) including such things as numbers of Iraqis and foreign nationals kidnapped, reporters killed, deaths from multiple-causality bombs, estimated strength of insurgency, etc. Extremely valuable!


Asia Times on Line's article ("Dispaches from America: Escalation in Iraq by the Numbers") by Tom Engelhardt
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IH15Ak03.html
Provides a list of numbers of troops, attacks, contractors, companies, prisoners, electrical blackouts as well as such things as projected costs, temperatures, availability and cost of water, Iraqi government stats and amount of oil, etc. In short, although is not presented in tables or graphs, it provides data to help determine the total context of the war. A very valuable collection of information that will aid to see the full picture.






STATS ON IRAQI RESOURCES:

The Oxfam Report on Resources Iraqi resources
http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/policy/conflict_disasters/bp105_iraq.html
provides a list of list of percentages related to the current conditions for Iraqi citizens concentrating on the availability of food, water, sanatation, shelter and so forth as well as their employment figures.




Thanks to all who have provided links. Please send more. I'll annotate (as above) and add. Think of the value of the following types of information:
# of Iraqi refugees leaving country
# of Iraqi refugees internally displaced
# of IED attacks on American/Coalition Forces
# of Iraqis kidnapped and tortured, found dumped

DU's gratuitous intelligently realizes the value of "numbers for things like reliable electricity, schools and hospitals that an American would recognize as open for business. . . ."

[Benhurst]

10. When I was in High School, we had to read Arthur Miller's ALL MY SONS.

Given the stranglehold the military/industrial complex has on this society, perhaps it should be made required reading for all our young people. The adults could use a refresher course as well.

[skids]

4. You know what...

...I think if they declare something a mechanical malfunction, they should immediately mention what subcontractor was doing the maintenance.

[Tesha]

5. Actually, helicopters, badly maintained in rugged conditions, *ARE* mighty unreliable.

> These are mighty unreliable helicopters, then.

Actually, helicopters, badly maintained and operating in
very rugged conditions, *ARE* mighty unreliable. Grit gets
places where it doesn't belong, it isn't removed, and
delicate mechanisms stop working, at which point the
helicopters fall out of the air.

It's entirely possible that the military is telling
the truth here, but it doesn't make much difference.
Their war planning seems to have never included fighting
a hot war for so long so they never planned the sort
of maintenance and equipment (and troop!) rotations
that would be needed to sustain the effort for so long.

So troops die, and it doesn't really matter much whether
the immediate cause was a well-placed bullet or a badly-
placed grain of sand; the effects on our forces are just
the same.

Tesha

[Bluebear]

7. You're right, dead is dead, and it may well be mechanical.

Desert flying with sand hither and thither is not great for engines. It just astounds me that they always "indicate" a mechanical in the very first press release.

[peacebird]

8. exactly - our troops are scrounging to keep equipment running in the desert.

The only thing about mechanical failure that suprises me is that it isn't happening more often.

But for the families the end result is still the same. A nicely folded triangle flag instead of their loved one to hold...

[Tesha]

9. (I suspect that there are some mechanics making *HEROIC* efforts)

> The only thing about mechanical failure that suprises me is that
> it isn't happening more often.

I agree. I suspect that there are some mechanics making truly
HEROIC* efforts to support their soldiers flying in the birds.

But the odds are that we'll never hear about these guys and gals
since they're not doing a daily Rambo imitation.

Tesha

[peacebird]

11. Agree - if not for the heroic efforts of the mechanics more soldiers would die for certain

our troops used good old ingenuity and scrap heaps to uparmour their trucks and humvees, they salvage and cannibalize from "dead" equipment to find parts to keep the rest running.

These folks truly are unsung heroes. Their efforts have doubtless saved many troops lives.
:toast: to the troops, may they all come home safe and SOON.

:hi:
Thanks Tesha, for pointing that out!

[Cooley Hurd]

6. CNN's Barbara Starr (aka the Pentagon's Leni Reifenstahl) said there were 2 helos...

...and the 2nd helicopter "didn't see any instances of ground fire."

Of course, it made me think of that scene in the movie Thirteen Days when Ken O'Donnell (Kevin Costner) called the navy pilot (Christopher Lawford) and told him that, even if he's fired upon, he shouldn't admit it to his superiors. Not the best analogy I could come up with, but you know what I mean...;)