HEADLINE: Gunmen kill 3 illegal immigrants in Arizona

[Bluebear]

TUCSON, Ariz. - Gunmen stopped a pickup truck full of illegal immigrants, shot some and took the rest captive Thursday in an attack that left at least three men dead and two people wounded, authorities said.

Authorities were trying to determine who the gunmen were and said some of the immigrants remained missing.

The men shot three people, one fatally, along a known smuggling corridor near Tucson, then forced several other immigrants in the group to leave with them, Pima County sheriff's officials said.

The bodies of two of those immigrants were found about 10 miles north in the cab of the pickup truck that had been carrying the group.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070208/ap_on_re_us/immigrants_slain

[Warren DeMontague]

1. Wow. Who could have predicted this sort of thing would start happening.

:eyes:

[Colobo]

2. Minutemen?

White Supremacists are hiding behind the Border issue... here are the results.

[slackmaster]

22. Probably not

Time will tell. I will be very surprised if this turns out to be anything other than border bandits.

[slackmaster]

10. It didn't just "start happening"

There has been border crime as long as there has been a border.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. I was thinking it was related to the minuteman phenomenon, too.

But it sounds like you know more about the situation than I do. :hi:

[Bobbieo]

13. This situation has been building up for years with the vigilante

situation.
Damn it!! I blame the US employers who hire the illegals for the whole bloody mess. On my way to the grocery today I saw a Border Patrol agent talking with a man - probably the contractor - on a single family home construction site that has been in progress for more than 2 months, now.

On my way home from the store saw that the construction site was shut down. Be interesting to see how long before they are back to work again. Also see if the incident makes the news.

[slackmaster]

15. If you live in Yuma you should be well aware of the problem with Bandidos

It hasn't been "building up". It's been running at full steam for DECADES.

[Bobbieo]

34. Actually , here in Yuma we don't have many problems with the

bandidos or the vigilantes. Most of the violence takes place on the Tohono O'odham rez or on the Eastern AZ borders.

[slackmaster]

41. There are plenty of problems in San Diego and Imperial Counties, CA

I've lived in border states since 1962, mostly in California. I'm stunned at the naive eagerness of some people, mostly living outside of our region, to jump to the conclusion that this kind of attack is A) something new and B) a result of the apparent increase in anti-illegal immigrant sentiment in the country and directly attributable to racism.

The real irony is that most of the crime committed against people whose only crime is trespassing in our country, is perpetrated by Mexican criminals who are also in the country illegally.

If the Minutemen and other movements have served to get people like Bluebear to finally start paying attention to our long-standing intenable border situation, then they will probably in the long run have done more good than harm. Their stated goal of physically closing down the border is a silly pipedream, which like most pipedreams would probably work if it was physically possible. But instead our federal government has given us only lip service and delivered half-measures like the border fences created in the '90s that resulted only in more deaths by funneling the illegals through dangerous mountain and desert areas - Every year dozens of people die of heat exhaustion, dehydration, or hypothermia since the border has been partly shut down in the more temperate coastal region.

IMO the only thing that could possibly stop the problem is the economic development of Mexico and Central American countries like Guatemala and El Salvador. Those are terrible places to be poor and unskilled. The rich and powerful few keep a choke-hold on most of the money and power, making it more attractive to make the dangerous passage to the USA where they can find work. The more people who come through, the more target opportunities for the subhuman predators who rob them of their cash and regard killing some of them as a minor annoyance.

The other culprit in this is of course the whole War On (some) Drugs and the role of US consumers of imported illegal substances. If US consumers were permitted to grow their own weed or get it from nice countries like Canada, and people would eschew hard drugs like cocaine and heroin, the smugglers wouldn't have a market and they'd be out of the picture.

It's amusing but sad to see knee-jerk reactions like Bluebear's, but at least the awareness that we really have a problem down here will put more people on the path to doing what is needed: Tell your Senators and members of Congress to get on the stick and do their job. They have let the problems on our international border fester far too long.

[raccoon]

42. Ding, ding! We have a winner!

"IMO the only thing that could possibly stop the problem is the economic development of Mexico and Central American countries like Guatemala and El Salvador. Those are terrible places to be poor and unskilled. The rich and powerful few keep a choke-hold on most of the money and power, making it more attractive to make the dangerous passage to the USA where they can find work. "

[Lost-in-FL]

3. They are fighting them there

so they don't have to fight them over here. :eyes:

[Cleita]

4. I hope the law goes after them because if they don't, it will

be open season on these immigrants. I hope no one thinks it's okay because they crossed the border illegally. Murder is not okay. Being policeman, jury and judge is not okay.

[Oeditpus Rex]

8. That's in the rational world

In the Freeper world, however, those would be listed under "Favorite pastimes."

[babylonsister]

5. Ugh. They better put the kibosh on this real quick. nt

[Justitia]

6. Holy Shit. This is insanity. -eom

[Kagemusha]

7. This sounds like Iraq, not Arizona.

I'd add more but it'd be a long string of expletives at present, I fear.

[slackmaster]

9. Link to duplicate topic in LBN

And I would like to once again caution people against making unfounded assumptions about who is responsible for this heinous crime. Illegal immigrants have for decades been frequent victims of drug smuggling gangs, and plain old "border bandits" as we call them down here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2723159

[Bluebear]

11. Just FWIW it is not a duplicate topic if it is in another forum

which people here might not go to.

[slackmaster]

17. Point taken - So WHY the rush to judgement when no arrest has been made?

My bet would be that this crime was done with robbery as a motive.

Bandidos know that illegal immigrants are defenseless, and carrying all that they own on their bodies.

[Bluebear]

19. Fact that no arrests have been made doesn't minimize the dangerous anti-immigrant wave

which is now sweeping our land.

[slackmaster]

21. No evidence has been presented that THIS CRIME...

...Has anything at all ot do with the anti-immigrant wave.

People have been victimized along the border for decades. One of the responsibilities of the Border Patrol is capturing and arresting border bandits who prey on innocent people.

[Bluebear]

23. The Minutemen are not Border Patrol agents

[slackmaster]

24. No evidence has been presented that THIS CRIME...

Had anything to do with the Minutemen.

At risk of being obligated to admit error, I hereby predict the Minutemen had nothing to do with it.

Feel free to tag this thread and publicly flog me if I am wrong. This is not the Minutemen's style.

[Bluebear]

25. OK sorry you are so concerned about the Minutemen there dude

[slackmaster]

27. You're the one accusing them without any facts to back it up

I'm just saying that historically, most border crimes are done by ordinary robbers. Mostly Mexicans, but not always.

I don't like the knee-jerk reactions here.

[Bluebear]

28. I did NOT accuse them. The photos are juxtaposed to highlight the antiimmigrant atmosphere

Do you deny that exists? Do you think Minutemen who read this story would say anything but "Good! Three less illegals!"

[slackmaster]

29. It doesn't matter what anyone would say

The problem of border crime has been around for generations.

The egg will be on YOUR face if this turns out to be just another border robbery turned violent.

[Bluebear]

31. We're destroying the planet with global warming and THIS is what you think about?

Familiar?

[slackmaster]

32. People who try to mold everything into a political issue often lack senses of humor

Have you ever noticed that?

[Missy M]

12. I am so ashamed of this country....

never thought I would say that. Hope they catch the murderers and punish them to the full extent of the law.

[slackmaster]

14. You and I are NOT RESPONSIBLE for whoever committed the crime

It's got nothing to do with the country.

[Missy M]

18. I don't want to argue over this but yes it does.

[slackmaster]

20. I'd agree only to the extent that we do a poor job of controlling violent criminals

:shrug:

[sweetheart]

16. the new iron curtain

There is an iron curtain around the evil empire,
a no mans land of wasted countries and blasted urban ganglands,
filled with new republicans waiting to be converted by bullets,
in to martyrs for the insane god of a hell planet.

[blonndee]

26. This fucking sounds like what happens in Iraq.

I know the comparison doesn't really work, but does this not sound like the horror stories we read about mysterious "gunmen" kidnapping and murdering people in Iraq?

***
Gunmen stopped a pickup truck full of illegal immigrants, shot some and took the rest captive Thursday in an attack that left at least three men dead and two people wounded, authorities said.

Authorities were trying to determine who the gunmen were and said some of the immigrants remained missing.

The men shot three people, one fatally, along a known smuggling corridor near Tucson, then forced several other immigrants in the group to leave with them, Pima County sheriff's officials said.

The bodies of two of those immigrants were found about 10 miles north in the cab of the pickup truck that had been carrying the group.

[LanternWaste]

30. I'm saddened, but not surpised...

As long as there are people who value imaginary red and bue lines on a map over fellow humans, this will continue. As long as there are bigots and racists sitting in front of microphones or getting elected, this will get worse.

[PsN2Wind]

33. All the added window dressing makes a better story

but, chances are, this was one group of "coyotes" trying to hijack these people from others coyotes. Happens with some regularity in Southern Arizona. That and the banditos, usually illegal themselves that prey on others.

[porphyrian]

35. Everyone welcome back the Klan! - n/t

[Bluebear]

36. For you:

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Extremism_72/4973_72.htm

Ku Klux Klan Rebounds With New Focus On Immigration, ADL Reports

New York, NY, February 6, 2007 … The Ku Klux Klan, which just a few years ago seemed static or even moribund compared to other white supremacist movements such as neo-Nazis, experienced "a surprising and troubling resurgence" during the past year due to the successful exploitation of hot-button issues including immigration, gay marriage and urban crime, according to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL).

The League, which monitors the activities of racist hate groups and reports its findings to law enforcement and policymakers, has documented a noticeable spike in activity by Klan chapters across the country. The KKK believes that the U.S. is "drowning" in a tide of non-white immigration, controlled and orchestrated by Jews, and is vigorously trying to bring this message to Americans concerned or fearful about immigration.

"If any one single issue or trend can be credited with re-energizing the Klan, it is the debate over immigration in America," said Deborah M. Lauter, ADL Civil Rights Director. "Klan groups have witnessed a surprising and troubling resurgence by exploiting fears of an immigration explosion, and the debate over immigration has, in turn, helped to fuel an increase in Klan activity, with new groups sprouting in parts of the country that have not seen much activity."

The full ADL report includes a slide show of recent Klan meetings and rallies and a state-by-state listing of active Klan chapters, or "Klaverns," across the country.

ADL has identified the following states as being notable for active or growing Klan chapters:

SOUTH: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas

MIDWEST: Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan and Ohio

GREAT PLAINS: Iowa and Nebraska

MID-ATLANTIC: Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and West Virginia

The troubling Klan resurgence has manifested itself in a number of ways:

* Longstanding groups have increased their activity and experienced a rapid expansion in size.
* New groups have appeared, causing racial tensions in communities previously untroubled by racial issues. They hold anti-immigration rallies and recruitment drives and distribute racist literature with a new emphasis on the immigration issue, and Hispanics.
* Klan groups have become more active in parts of the country that had not seen much activity in recent years, including the Great Plains States such as Iowa and Nebraska, and Mid-Atlantic states such as Maryland, Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
* Klan groups increasingly are cooperating with neo-Nazi groups, especially the Minnesota-based National Socialist Movement.
* The Klan has adopted new publicity tricks, such as sending racist fliers to school teachers during Black History Month, and has embraced the Internet as a means to spread anti-Semitism and racism. One group, the Empire Knights of the KKK, runs an Internet-based radio station, dubbed "KKK Radio," which broadcasts white power music and racist and anti-Semitic propaganda.

Reinventing the Klan

"Although some Klansmen may still hold cross-burnings dressed in robes and hoods, today's young Klansmen are more likely to look virtually indistinguishable from racist skinheads or neo-Nazis," said Ms. Lauter. "Today's Klansmen may be as likely to gather at white power music concerts or socialize at so-called 'unity rallies' with other white supremacists, as to participate in ritualistic cross burnings in the rural wilderness."

Since the early 1990s, Klan groups have become increasingly "nazified," with members embracing and immersing themselves in neo-Nazi and racist skinhead subcultures, adopting the music, dress, tattoos and imagery of neo-Nazis, according to ADL. Another trend has been "the collusion and cross-fertilization" of Klan chapters and other major American racist groups.

In March 2006, for example, about 80 members of the National Socialist Movement and various Klan groups met in Laurens, South Carolina, to discuss ways to increase cooperation. Groups on hand for the event included the National Socialist Movement, Aryan Nations, the Griffin Knights of the KKK, the Teutonic Knights of the KKK and the Yahweh Knights of the KKK.

The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world's leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry.

[porphyrian]

37. Yeah, I caught that in a thread the other day.

It seems like we've been here before...

[pnorman]

38. Here's a relatd article,

as well as an appropriate picture: http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/news/10937240/detail.html

here's the picture:

pnorman

[RB TexLa]

39. Doesn't help when you have idiots on TV telling gullible people that they are at WAR

with them. I'm sure there are more ready to fire bullets in the . . .

[DeaconBlues]

43. Nice use of pictures

to smear the anti-illegal immigration movement with these murders, even though there is absolutely no evidence that anybody but border bandits had a hand in this.


Goebbels would be proud.

[ck4829]

45. Might not be Minutemen, but...

In one of the recent attacks, the 4 attackers wore uniforms, berets, three of them looked white and the other one looked hispanic and they spoke limited spanish.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/40586.php

Probably not the Minutemen, but not even law enforcement have ruled out the possibility of some sort of militia.

[ck4829]

44. Change some names and it sounds like Baghdad on a normal day