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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 12:38 AM
Original message
Group that advocated Bush become "President-for-Life" linked to Bush Administration itself
You can't find the story now, they removed it after DU'ers, and other people possibly, exposed the story a little group called Family Security Matters was running.

But, just because they removed it, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore.

"President Bush is reviled; he has become another victim of Democracy.

By elevating popular fancy over truth, Democracy is clearly an enemy of not just truth, but duty and justice, which makes it the worst form of government. President Bush must overcome not just the situation in Iraq, but democratic government.

However, President Bush has a valuable historical example that he could choose to follow.

When the ancient Roman general Julius Caesar was struggling to conquer ancient Gaul, he not only had to defeat the Gauls, but he also had to defeat his political enemies in Rome who would destroy him the moment his tenure as consul (president) ended.

Caesar pacified Gaul by mass slaughter; he then used his successful army to crush all political opposition at home and establish himself as permanent ruler of ancient Rome. This brilliant action not only ended the personal threat to Caesar, but ended the civil chaos that was threatening anarchy in ancient Rome thus marking the start of the ancient Roman Empire that gave peace and prosperity to the known world.

If President Bush copied Julius Caesar by ordering his army to empty Iraq of Arabs and repopulate the country with Americans, he would achieve immediate results: popularity with his military; enrichment of America by converting an Arabian Iraq into an American Iraq (therefore turning it from a liability to an asset); and boost American prestiege while terrifying American enemies.

He could then follow Caesar's example and use his newfound popularity with the military to wield military power to become the first permanent president of America, and end the civil chaos caused by the continually squabbling Congress and the out-of-control Supreme Court.

President Bush can fail in his duty to himself, his country, and his God, by becoming ex-president Bush or he can become President-for-Life Bush: the conqueror of Iraq, who brings sense to the Congress and sanity to the Supreme Court. Then who would be able to stop Bush from emulating Augustus Caesar and becoming ruler of the world? For only an America united under one ruler has the power to save humanity from the threat of a new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons."

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:cnnnSRimWmcJ:www.familysecuritymatters.org/index.php%3Fid%3D1208571+%22president+for+life+bush%22+site:familysecuritymatters.org&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Google's Caching Service, don't you love it?

Here is the link to the original BTW:

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/index.php?id=1208571

But, what about Family Security Matters?

Well, it turns out that "Family Security Matters (FSM) is a front group for the Center for Security Policy (CSP), a conservative Washington think tank "committed to the time-tested philosophy of promoting international peace through American strength." (The phone number listed on the FSM website is answered by the CSP.)

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Family_Security_Matters

So now we are led to the Center for Security Policy, and who's connected to that group?

Dick Cheney, Vice President of the U.S. under George W. Bush, was an early member of Center's Board of Advisors (which is now called the National Security Advisory Council).

Twenty-two CSP advisers -- including additional Reagan-era remnants like Elliott Abrams, Ken deGraffenreid, Paula Dobriansky, Sven Kraemer, Robert Joseph, Robert Andrews and J.D. Crouch -- have reoccupied key positions in the national security establishment, as have other true believers of more recent vintage."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Center_for_Security_Policy#Personnel
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh come on - that isn't intended to be serious.
Edited on Mon Aug-13-07 12:44 AM by Stephanie

It can't possibly be a serious article. It's a parody, or it's written by a fruitcake.



Exclusive: Conquering the Drawbacks of Democracy
Author: Philip Atkinson
Source: The Family Security Foundation, Inc.
Date: August 3, 2007

<excerpt>

Caesar pacified Gaul by mass slaughter; he then used his successful army to crush all political opposition at home and establish himself as permanent ruler of ancient Rome. This brilliant action not only ended the personal threat to Caesar, but ended the civil chaos that was threatening anarchy in ancient Rome thus marking the start of the ancient Roman Empire that gave peace and prosperity to the known world.

If President Bush copied Julius Caesar by ordering his army to empty Iraq of Arabs and repopulate the country with Americans, he would achieve immediate results: popularity with his military; enrichment of America by converting an Arabian Iraq into an American Iraq (therefore turning it from a liability to an asset); and boost American prestiege while terrifying American enemies.

He could then follow Caesar's example and use his newfound popularity with the military to wield military power to become the first permanent president of America, and end the civil chaos caused by the continually squabbling Congress and the out-of-control Supreme Court.

President Bush can fail in his duty to himself, his country, and his God, by becoming ex-president Bush or he can become President-for-Life Bush: the conqueror of Iraq, who brings sense to the Congress and sanity to the Supreme Court. Then who would be able to stop Bush from emulating Augustus Caesar and becoming ruler of the world? For only an America united under one ruler has the power to save humanity from the threat of a new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons.

# #

FamilySecurityMatters.org Contributing Editor Philip Atkinson is the British born founder of ourcivilisation.com and author of A Study of Our Decline. He is a philosopher specializing in issues concerning the preservation of Western civilization. Mr. Atkinson receives mail at [email protected]

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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. "fruitcake"? You mean like, oh...anybody in *'s administration?
Watch and see if Fux Noise starts hinting at this. Then you'll know the fix is in.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Someone should remind Mr. Atkinson
that Julius Caesar was assassinated by members of the Senate and that the Roman Empire collapsed not when it was first established but when it had grown gargantuan and could no longer defend itself, when it had to hire barbarian mercenaries to do its imperial fighting.

The early American presidents who pushed the borders of the original thirteen states westward to the Pacific Ocean and slaughtered the native peoples with the ruthlessness of Caesar might offer a more valid comparison, but boooosh is more like Hadrian, building walls to keep the barbarians out.


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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. Assassinated by members of the Senate.
I can see it now.

E tu Lieberman?

:rofl:
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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
55. Barbarian mecenaries?
As in Blackwater?
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momster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. Reality? Check Please
""If President Bush copied Julius Caesar by ordering his army to empty Iraq of Arabs and repopulate the country with Americans...""

Frankly, I can't think of anybody who'd want to move there --- except a few loonies who say things like 'at least it's a dry heat'. Oh, wait. Is this nutcase suggesting the army *forcibly* repopulate the country? What does he hope to see -- press gangs? One out of ten people at a soccer game rounded up and sent over to Iraq to live? And folks won't be shanghaied anymore -- they'll be Iraqacized? "What happened to Phil?" "Oh, he was Iraqacized...I hear his wife's really lonely and looking to repopulate her household." ]

Sheesh.
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Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. Oh I'm sure the neighbors wouldn't mind
Hey, we've exterminated you neighbors and take their place!
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
71. Yeah, send the republcans there after it's been nuked.
They won't be able to give birth to anything that will susrvive more than a few hours for the next millenia. I guess tha's one way to limit their growth.
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DieboldMustDie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
76. The top tax rate is 15%
Cons should love it.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. Oh its serious alright...
...check out some of the guys other paranoid writings...

http://ourcivilisation.com/

He fits right into the PNAC neocon mold...
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. This guy is seriously nuts. nt
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nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. Oh, yeah, bored, delusions of grandeur, a worshipper at the feet of power,
lover of the "distinctive" Boer community in ZA, etc. etc.. Plus, he pre-invented the internet, but was derided by the Australian govt.

Some of the most interesting ramblings I have seen of late, much like a schizophrenic's notebook complete with complicated diagrams, patterns no one else can discern, etc., strangely alluring, but of no real value except for its novelty.

This guy says that civilization went downhill at the triumph of the French Revolution. . .
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dickbearton Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. Don't underestimate...
The stupidity and insanity of the Criminal Bush and those
around him.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. sort of like Scalia
in his infamous speech "God's Justice and Ours"

...In my view, the major impetus behind modern aversion to the death penalty is the equation of private morality with governmental morality. This is a predictable (though I believe erroneous and regrettable) reaction to modern, democratic self-government.

...Few doubted the morality of the death penalty in the age that believed in the divine right of kings. Or even in earlier times. St. Paul had this to say (I am quoting, as you might expect, the King James version):

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil."

...These passages from Romans represent the consensus of Western thought until very recent times. Not just of Christian or religious thought, but of secular thought regarding the powers of the state. That consensus has been upset, I think, by the emergence of democracy. It is easy to see the hand of the Almighty behind rulers whose forebears, in the dim mists of history, were supposedly anointed by God, or who at least obtained their thrones in awful and unpredictable battles whose outcome was determined by the Lord of Hosts, that is, the Lord of Armies. It is much more difficult to see the hand of God - or any higher moral authority - behind the fools and rogues (as the losers would have it) whom we ourselves elect to do our own will. How can their power to avenge - to vindicate the "public order" - be any greater than our own?

The mistaken tendency to believe that a democratic government, being nothing more than the composite will of its individual citizens, has no more moral power or authority than they do as individuals has adverse effects in other areas as well. It fosters civil disobedience, for example, which proceeds on the assumption that what the individual citizen considers an unjust law - even if it does not compel him to act unjustly - need not be obeyed. St. Paul would not agree. "Ye must needs be subject," he said, "not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake." For conscience sake. The reaction of people of faith to this tendency of democracy to obscure the divine authority behind government should not be resignation to it, but the resolution to combat it as effectively as possible.


This is an argument for theocracy, for a "divine right" of a ruler to dispense law as he sees fit. This is a supreme court justice of the U.S. govt. who is arguing that democracy is a problem in the assertion of authority. He cites St. Paul, not the bill of rights, as his source of authority about what the U.S. govt. should do.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. He should be impeached and dragged off the bench based on
that speech alone. A jurist whose purview is the defense of American democracy should not express this disdain for our way of government. You will not protect what you despise.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. These people think Jesus wants them to start WWIII. They think the Earth is 6,000 years old.
They think people rode dinosaurs onto Noah's Ark. Literally.

"Not Serious"? "Fruitcake"?

No offense, but who do you think has been running this country for the past 6 years, if not a bunch of bat-shit crazy Fruitcakes?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. okay yeah
you are right. but i can't believe anyone in the WH is nutty enough to believe anything like this. and seriously, george has already done about ten years of work in this life, he is ready for retirement. it's hard work.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #50
58. I agree. Worst Case Scenario, this is an extremely idiotic trial balloon, like that "cancel the
election" thing Condi floated in 2004. Nice to see the level of respect they accord the Constitution, Freedom, elections and Democracy, isn't it? :eyes:

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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. If this site is not a parody, it's truly sickening. n/t
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I have a spy email account that gets email from them
They're extremely right wing, so much so that it is ridiculous, but I think they're deadly serious with their politics.
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. Phew.... there's an article on there that says ALL Iraqis should have been "slaughtered."
These people are monstrous.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I wonder
what are their plans for those who stand in their way here at home?
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PerceptionManagement Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
75. If it's parody, it's extremely poorly done.
There is no way anyone could take that as a 'joke'. I bet Ann Coulter has masturbated to it already.
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az chela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. If this is true,may he have a very short life!!!!
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. So, how did that whole "Caesar" thing work out, anyway? ROME lived happily ever after, right?
We should definitely follow Rome's shining example,
and ignore all those ivory-tower Liberals who want
to tear down our great and unquestionable Homeland
with their over-educated "lessons of history" gibberish.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Hey, I just visited Rome the other day
All the people say that Julius Caesar was a wonderful mayor.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
36. History is quaint, don't you know... eom
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. Oh brother
These are the kinds of phony think tanks where Republican staffers, Cabinet members and ex-Congresspersons go when they are out of power. While there, they draw a nice paycheck for basically doing nothing, save the occasional speech or appearance on Fox News. They publish phony academic papers and books expounding upon all of their neoconservative drivel, and sit around on their fat asses waiting for their old bosses to come back into power in Washington.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Sounds like you'r referring to "Nuke" ginGrinch.
All the buzzing around the "seats" of power reminds me of "corpse" flys, the ultimate janitors, which are ever in waiting to invade a deceased creature, infect it, and raise millions of little carbon copies of themselves.

We'll never eliminate it, but there sure needs to be some way of reducing it to the point where it quits invading critters who are still breathing and trying to stay alive, like democratic representative republics and such.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Gotta launder their filthy money somewhere. And the loonier the better, easier to manipulate. nt
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. Oy!
When faced with the possible threat that the Iraqis might be amassing terrible weapons that could be used to slay millions of citizens of Western Civilization, President Bush took the only action prudence demanded and the electorate allowed: he conquered Iraq with an army.

This dangerous and expensive act did destroy the Iraqi regime, but left an American army without any clear purpose in a hostile country and subject to attack. If the Army merely returns to its home, then the threat it ended would simply return.

The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead. Then there would be little risk or expense and no American army would be left exposed. But if he did this, his cowardly electorate would have instantly ended his term of office, if not his freedom or his life.



http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:cnnnSRimWmcJ:www.familysecuritymatters.org/index.php%3Fid%3D1208571+%22president+for+life+bush%22+site:familysecuritymatters.org&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a


Insane. Simply insane.

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iamahaingttta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
59. Don't these people know...
...that "we" just went into Iraq to steal the oil?

"But if he did this, his cowardly electorate would have instantly ended his term of office, if not his freedom or his life..."

That part sounds good to me!
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. I Wonder If The "Good Germans", at First said," These guys are just Whackos, They're just a Joke"
Then, later, they grew to find nothing at all funny about them
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. I think they did, if I remember "They Thought They Were Free" correctly. nt
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
11. From what I've been reading,
Edited on Mon Aug-13-07 01:44 AM by EST
four percent of the population is suffering from active psychosis and one in every hundred is a functioning psychopath.
The figure that I heard a couple weeks ago was that, at any one time, there are thirty to fifty serial murderers plying their horrid trade throughout the US.

These figures, not all of which were footnoted to proven studies, were from respectable law enforcement types, assumed to be fairly accurate.
That tells me that there are, right now, in three hundred million population, three million people sunk so deeply into psychosis that they find it impossible to separate reality from nightmare and another nine million who are nearly as unfortunate. Anti-social behavior, for them, is normal and mostly beyond the reach of introspection.

Twelve million home grown Americans, "normal" adults, perhaps--almost none of whom is named "Hussein" or al-Anything, boy or girl next door types, replete with "unfulfilled promise." People to whom your death or torture is of no moment, at best, and quite possibly a source of glee and gratification.

It's hardly surprising that some of them would inevitably get together and compare notes, deriving the benefits of cooperation.

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vanlassie Donating Member (826 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. And Bush IS a functioning psychopath.
Great. Just great.

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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Sure keeps my a**hole puckering and unpuckering.
Seems like nearly every system on which we thought we could depend has broken down all at once.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. The Number of Psychopaths Is Much Higher Than That
or I've had a very unlucky life. The psycho-magnet, that's me!
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. Excellent post. nt
Edited on Mon Aug-13-07 12:33 PM by glitch
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
49. What a disgusting slur against people with mental illness.
Active psychosis DOES NOT EQUAL "People to whom your death or torture is of no moment, at best, and quite possibly a source of glee and gratification."

People with psychosis are more often than not loving, intelligent people. That they are intermittently or wholly not in touch with reality does not justify you lumping them in with sociopaths and serial killers. Shame on you.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #49
57. (Sigh)
Please re-direct your outrage toward a source who's actually being offensive or trying to be, rather than mis-interpret my remarks to feed your private prejudices.

There are more appropriate targets.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. You equated people with mental illness with serial killers and sociopaths.
If that's not what you meant then you ought to choose your words more carefully.
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BrainGlutton Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
12. Who is this Philip Atkinson?
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
17. marking...
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
18. Frank Gaffney has his hands all over this
WARNING: This post contains links to wacky wingnut websites!

After all, besides being a writer for right-wing sites like WorldNetDaily, the Washington Times and the National Review, he's the president and founder of the Center for Security Policy. One can find Gaffney pimping FSM and its founder, "security mom", Carol Taber here:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/FrankJGaffneyJr/2004/09/27/president-making_security_moms

Ironically, Ms. Taber was once the publisher of Working Woman Magazine as you can read about in this piece in the NY Sun, covering her launch of FSM:

December 4, 2003

Carol Taber spent the 1960's protesting against the Vietnam War and the 1980's as publisher of Working Woman magazine.

Gay Bryant was editor of Working Woman, and also served as editor-in-chief- of two other women's glossies - Mirabella and Family Circle.

Now they are working with a Reagan-era Pentagon official to raise $2.6 million to start a nonprofit monthly newsletter called "Family Security Matters," aiming to help get women as allies for a hawkish stance in the war on terrorism. How to explain the transformation? Ms. Taber said she was inspired by a talk that she heard the president of the Center for Security Policy, Frank Gaffney, give a year ago in New York. Ms. Bryant said she was moved by the attack on New York on September 11, 2001...


link: http://www.fatnetwork.net/~familyse/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=9

And of course, if one rides the wild Google, one can find all sorts of other neocon sites, publications and radio shows that gave host to Ms. Taber and her rantings. From Ear-plugging Janet Parshall, to frowny Brit Hume to hatey Michelle Malkin.

As I've said before, these wingnuts are an incestuous bunch. If you really want to see an especially nasty site, check out Gaffney and the CSP's little domain, divestterror.org. Oh, it's a happy little website and look at the members on the advisory council! Alan Keyes! William Bennett! Kay Baily Hutchison! James Inhofe! Richard Perle! Curt Weldon! James Webb? (how did he get in there?) Philip Merrill! (oops, he committed suicide) ...

link: http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/Home.aspx?SID=47&SubCategoryID=50

And check out the kind of guests they get for their fancy Regent's dinners:



Busy. Busy.
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spirald Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. Sedition is a serious crime
"He could then follow Caesar's example and use his newfound popularity with the military to wield military power to become the first permanent president of America, and end the civil chaos caused by the continually squabbling Congress and the out-of-control Supreme Court."

Wow. Just wow. How does this statement -not- advocate the violent overthrow of the U.S. government? If it is true that this group is affiliated with people that hold high positions in the U.S. government, that this group has published these comments, and the people with whom this group is affiliated have taken actions or advocated positions along these lines, especially in light of recent executive branch activities to curtail civil liberties in favor of increasing the power of the executive branch, as well as the infiltration of the military by those of whos allegiance may favor their religious order over our constitution, it would seem reasonable that there may in fact exist a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER to our constitution, which demands an immediate and thorough investigation by Congress into the activities spawned by this abominable and dangerous suggestion.

From http://law.jrank.org/pages/10113/Sedition.html

"Sedition is the crime of revolting or inciting revolt against government. However, because of the broad protection of free speech under the FIRST AMENDMENT, prosecutions for sedition are rare. Nevertheless, sedition remains a crime in the United States under 18 U.S.C.A. 2384 (2000), a federal statute that punishes seditious conspiracy, and 18 U.S.C.A. 2385 (2000), which outlaws advocating the overthrow of the federal government by force. Generally, a person may be punished for sedition only when he or she makes statements that create a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER to rights that the government may lawfully protect (SCHENCK V. UNITED STATES, 249 U.S. 47, 39 S. Ct. 247, 63 L. Ed. 470 <1919>)."

"The crime of seditious conspiracy is committed when two or more persons in any state or U.S. territory conspire to levy war against the U.S. government. A person commits the crime of advocating the violent overthrow of the federal government when she willfully advocates or teaches the overthrow of the government by force, publishes material that advocates the overthrow of the government by force, or organizes persons to overthrow the government by force. A person found guilty of seditious conspiracy or advocating the overthrow of the government may be fined and sentenced to up to 20 years in prison. States also maintain laws that punish similar advocacy and conspiracy against the state government."
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
38. Good point.
But who's going to be around to prosecute them? They have the shards of the DOJ under the direct control of Gonzo and he ain't going anywhere.

And when this apocryphal "national emergency" comes, all those Executive orders and Presidential dirctives kick in.

And hey, whaddya know, a bloodless coup.

Welcome to DU, spirald.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
25. Right..the worst sick president(sic)
in the history of the world should become president for life. Only in bush sicko mind and some neonazi winos.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
26. K&R
:kick:
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djp2 Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
27. Let him be president of IRaq
He can be "President-for-Life' of Iraq. I don't think the "for life" who last very long.
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
31. Why wait for hime to conquer Iraq lets just send him over there and let him be permanet leader there
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losthills Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
32. C'mon....
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
37. At least Ceaser wasn't an idiot n/t
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
39. President Dumbya, you're no Julius Caesar.
For one thing Caesar was a populist and for another, he was immensely popular.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #39
60. And he paid his troops part of the fruits of his conquest.
Under Roman law of the time period, Caesar personally Raised the legions serving under him and paid them (Out of his own pocket). Thus the Legions of his time, should be viewed more like Black-water than the present US Army (Who are paid by the US Government, NOT Bush personally).

On top of this Caesar was "Chief Priest of Rome" i.e. he controlled ALL of the temples of Rome and as such the ability to send messages to the people (Which is why he wrote his "Commentaries"). Prior to the invention of the modern Newspaper in the early 1800s (and that was the result of the invention of Cheap Pulp paper) the way to get news to people was via the pulpit. Caesar lived in that period and used his control of the pulpit for all it was worth.

Since Caesar was the nephew of Maius. Maius supporters naturally followed him (Through he was NOT as radical as Marius who as NOT as radical as the Gracchi). Thus Caesar had to the Support of the People, the Largest part of the Roman Legions (do to his Conquest of Gaul and the fear the Romans had of the Gauls). His opponents had money behind them and even more Legions, who were in their pay.

People forget that Caesar was Popular and the leader of the poor in Rome. His assassination was do to fear of the Rich that he would do what the Graschi had proposed almost 100 years before. Augustus took over from Caesar but was even more caution about reforms. Augustus continued and made it the duty of the Emperor to provide Food and games to the masses. Augustus made all of the Legions personally loyal to him alone, Augustus was also Chief Priest of Rome, First Senator of the Senate and Tribune of the People. This provide Augustus Complete Control of Rome. No basic Reforms, the rich retained their large estates, but the poor was bought off with free food and games all based on the overwhelming power of Rome of the time period. This was NOT sustainable, for sooner or later people would get together and challenge Rome. The Persians and Goths did this in the 200s and Rome had to build up its Army to face these challengers. The Ruling Elite wanted NOT to be taxes but tax the poor instead. This provided even further decay within the Empire, but that is where Caesar's polios went, not the direct result.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
41. FSM also shares their initials with the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. All hail His noodly appendage.
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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #47
56. Ramen! n/t
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
42. Board of Advisors
Edited on Mon Aug-13-07 09:13 PM by RainDog
I had a hard time believing this could be any sort of organization with "legitimate" connections too...but amazingly, they are real. They are the "secular" wing of the Christian Reconstructionist fascism.

Here's the board of directors.

Barbara Comstock, Principal, Blank Rome Government Relations; former Director of Public Affairs for the United States Justice Department, overseeing all communications for the Attorney General, the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Bureau of Prisons, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; and the U.S. Marshals Service.

Dr. Monica Crowley, WABC Radio Talk Show Host; former Foreign Policy Assistant to President Richard Nixon; doctorate in International Relations, Columbia University.

Susan Davis, President and CEO, Susan Davis International, recognized as one of the nations premier full-service communications and public affairs firms; named one of the "Top 5 Public Affairs Agencies" in the country.

James T. DeGraffenreid, Pres/COO of The United States Naval Institute; a former President at Phillips Publishing International, a key information supplier to the consumer market and to the Defense, Aviation, Telecommunication and Energy industries; Chairman of the Board, The Center for Security Policy.

Terrence A. Elkes, Principal, Apollo Partners, LLC, acquirer of media, communications, entertainment and broadcast companies; former member of the Board of Directors, President and (former) Chief Executive Office of Viacom International, Inc.; Chairman of the Board of Regents, Center for Security Policy.

Frank J. Gaffney, Jr., Founder and President, Center for Security Policy, a non-profit, non-partisan organization committed to promoting international peace through American strength; former Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy; Chairman of the High Level Group, NATOs senior politico-military committee; representative for the Secretary of Defense in key U.S.-Soviet negotiations.

Laura Ingraham, Author, Columnist, Political Commentator, Host of Nationally Syndicated Radio Show.

Dale W. Lang, retired media entrepreneur, former Chairman of Lang Communications, Inc., and senior executive at the 3M Corporation; owner and manager of national magazines, local television stations and major outdoor advertising enterprises; has served on the boards of directors of various large public companies and nonprofit organizations.

The Honorable John LeBoutillier, former Member of Congress, Author, Columnist.

Maria Estela Lopez de Rios, Executive Vice President, Orion International Technologies, provider of engineering and scientific support to government agencies in the areas of Test & Evaluation, Advanced Technologies, Engineering & Technical Services, and Information Technologies.

Shirley Lord - Author and Journalist.

Heather MacDonald, John M. Olin Fellow, Manhattan Institute; Contributing Editor, City Journal; former appointee to Mayor Rudolph Giulianis task force, City University of New York.

Abby S. Moffat, Executive Director, The Shelby Cullom Davis Foundation.

Roger W. Robinson, Jr., President and CEO, Conflict Securities Advisory Group; Vice Chairman of the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission; former Senior Director of International Economic Affairs at the White House National Security Council under President Reagan.

W. Thomas Smith Jr., author, columnist, and former U.S. Marine infantry leader

Dr. Latanya Sweeney, Director, Laboratory for International Data Privacy, Carnegie Mellon University; Bio-Terrorism Surveillance Project, Department of Defense and Johns Hopkins University

Frank S. Swain, Partner, Baker and Daniels; Trustee and Secretary, Margaret Thatcher Foundation; Director, Research Institute for Small and Emerging Business

Paul E. Vallely, Major General, US Army (ret), Senior Military Analyst, Fox News.

Dr. Arthur Waldron, Lauder Professor of International Relations, University of Pennsylvania; formerly Princeton University; professor of strategy and policy at the U.S. Naval War College; adjunct professor of East Asian Studies at Brown University; member of the Council on Foreign Relations; research associate at the Olin Institute for Strategic Studies, Harvard University.

Dr. Cheryl Willman, Director and CEO, University of New Mexico, Cancer Research and Treatment Center; Professor, Pathology and Medicine, UNM; Science and Technology Scientific Advisory Board, Sandia National Laboratories; National Board of Medical Examiners; former Board of Directors, National Center for Genome Resources.

Dr. Joan Woodard, Executive Vice President and Deputy Director, Sandia National Laboratories; serves on the Intelligence Science Board and the Congressional Commission to assess the vulnerabilities of U.S. Infrastructure to Electromagnetic Pulse; served on the Defense Policy Board study on Homeland Security; and on the National Academy Study on S&T for Countering Terrorism, resulting in the publication of "Making the Nation Safer."

R. James Woolsey, former Director of Central Intelligence in 1993-95; former Ambassador to the Negotiation on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe (CFE), Vienna; Under Secretary of the Navy; and General Counsel to the U.S. Senate Committee on Armed Services. Appointed by the President as Delegate at Large to the U.S.-Soviet Strategic Arms Reduction Talks (START) and Nuclear and Space Arms Talks (NST); adviser on the U.S. Delegation to the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks (SALT I), Helsinki and Vienna. (read more)

Board of Directors:

Carol A. Taber, President, Family Security Foundation, Inc., publisher of familysecuritymatters.org; former Executive Vice President, Group Publisher, Lang Communications, Inc.

Amanda C. Bowman, President of the Coalition for a Secure Drivers License; New York Director of Washington, D.C.-based Center for Security Policy.

Linda Cohen, Member of the Leadership Santa Fe program, appointed to the Santa Fe Planning Commission, serves as trustee on the New Mexico Board of the Anti-Defamation League, member of the International Womens Forum and the Santa Fe Community College Foundation Board.

Dale W. Lang, Former Chairman of Lang Communications, Inc., senior executive at the 3M Corporation; owner and manager of national magazines, local television stations and major outdoor advertising enterprises.

Edward A. Taber, III, Executive Vice President, Legg Mason/Institutional Asset Management; former President, Prime Reserve Fund, T. Rowe Price.

Rick Senninger, Managing partner of Hero Radio Network and 30 year veteran of the radio and television industry as Executive Producer for television, Owner and managing partner of radio stations, and Marketing Director/Syndicator for numerous media programs. Currently, Senninger creates and distributes the first inter-active radio show that provides the public direct two way communication with service men and women who are in theatre.
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
44. I'll give this a K&R because I just had some issues
My e-mail took forever to download and the pics I scanned yesterday are gone from my "My Pictures" folder.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
48. Surely, this group of totally gone insane jocks and jockettes...
beat the group of war criminals at the PNAC by a light year!

For a tiny short moment, I thought I was reading a sketch from the Onion...
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
51. Here's Mr. Atkinson calling for NUCLEAR GENOCIDE - Family Security Matters calls it "powerful...."

Now that Mr. Atkinson's call for Bush to be "President for Life" has caused Family Security Matters to suddenly scrub him from their website, it's interesting to look at another of Mr. Atkinson's articles.

"America's Choice" was published by Family Security Matters on May 30, 2007. Like his current rant, it is oonly available in Google cache:
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:6FSguz_U_Q0J:www.familysecuritymatters.org/challenges.php%3Fid%3D1013609+america%27s+choice+-+by+Phillp+Atkinson&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


Here is some of what Family Security Matters has had to say since May 30

"FSM Contributing Editor Philip Atkinson explains how the imposition of one civilizations belief systems upon others has marked global conflict throughout the millennia. How is Americas current dilemma similar to that which caused the fall of Rome? Read his powerful analysis."




America's Choice
(only available in Google cache http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:6FSguz_U_Q0J:www.familysecuritymatters.org/challenges.php%3Fid%3D1013609+america%27s+choice+-+by+Phillp+Atkinson&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us )

......The collapse of Pax Romana and the Roman Empire started when the ancient Romans recoiled from violence and refused to countenance the mass slaughter of their enemies. Trapped between the advance of the Huns and the river Danube, a natural boundary of the Roman Empire, the Gothic nation faced extinction. Their attempts to force entry into the empire had already been repulsed with heavy losses, so they begged for, and received, from the Emperor Valens, permission to enter the Roman world. This act of mercy, the admission of a huge number of unconquered tribes of barbarians into the precincts of the Roman empire, lead inevitably to the destruction of the empire and the fall of Rome. After the Goths crossed the river they changed from refugees to invaders, killed the Emperor and sacked the Empire.

Hence a civilization can exist only as long as it dominates by violence all other communities, and the moment a dominant community recoils from violence, its rule is challenged. That is, it becomes attacked by all the other communities, in one way or another, as they attempt to assert their beliefs upon the faltering civilization.

Technology has now sped up the nature of war. Once it required massive human effort to conquer a nation by use of arms, now it does not: it requires just resolve and an advantage in technology.

The power of modern weapons means that an unknown attacker can destroy a city in a flash, which means that an undeclared enemy can destroy a group of cities, which is a community, in a flash. Technology has not only dramatically sped up the clash of communities, but it has introduced uncertainty as to the identity of the aggressor.

Now to wage war successfully a community must be ruthless, merciless, resolute and unhesitating: the moment it believes it can smite its enemies is the moment it must act. Otherwise, it will only discover that its enemies have acted when its own cities are incinerated.

Israel, an American ally, has been warned that it will be wiped off the face of the earth by its Iranian neighbor. This means that unless Israel razes Iran, Iran will make good its threat. The choice now facing Israel is the choice now facing all nuclear armed communities: inflict genocide or commit suicide.

American military efforts are now undermined by the timidity of the American nation for Americans fear to employ modern weapons. When General Douglas MacArthur made it clear that victory in Korea could be obtained only by using nuclear weapons, he was hastily removed from command: but he was right. The Korean War was not won, but concluded by a truce that has allowed the enemies of America to improve their weapons and become a much more dangerous threat to the USA than they were in 1953.

There was no need for the Americans to repel with tanks and troops the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait; the Iraqis could have been compelled to withdraw merely by the use, or threat, of a few nuclear missiles.

There is no need for the current (2007) presence of American troops in Iraq. By judicious use of nuclear weapons, either the Iraqis would all be dead, or the survivors would be obedient to American demands.

The once all-powerful Americans, who ruthlessly incinerated Nagasaki and Hiroshima, have declined into a people who believe nuclear war is 'unthinkable'. This is the opposite view of their enemies who publicly demonstrated their glee at the announcement of 911; imagine their joy at the news that New York had been vaporized: these people dream of wiping out America.

Americans can now easily crush their enemies, but every hour the USA does not use its present superiority in nuclear weapons to dominate other communities, is another hour given to its enemies to develop and use their nuclear weapons to eradicate the American community.

Americans have a choice: use nuclear weapons on their enemies or have their enemies use them on Americans; ruthlessly uphold 'Pax America' or blindly follow 'Pax Romana' into oblivion.


FamilySecurityMatters.org Contributing Editor Philip Atkinson is the British born founder of ourcivilisation.com and author of A Study of Our Decline. He is a philosopher specializing in issues concerning the preservation of Western civilization. Mr. Atkinson receives mail at [email protected]





Interesting that this collection of Bushbots at Family Security Matters has endorsed this explicit call for nuclear genocide as "powerful analysis" for 3 months, and only now scrubs it from their site when they judge his current article to be too much of an embarrassment.






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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Calling Keith Olbermann!
Worse Worst and Worser all in one!

really. Laura Ingram is on their board of directors... James Woolsey...

someone needs to bring this group to the attention of the general public so they can understand who is providing "commentary" as talking heads.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
54. ...


- K&R
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
62. Conquering the Drawbacks of Democracy ?!?
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MasterDarkNinja Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
63. And I'm sure no one would mind us killing 95+% of the Iraqi population
No they'd all just sit back and go "oh well, not my problem".

Thank god this guy isn't a dictator, he'd make Adolf Hitler look like a big soft lovable teddy bear after killing millions for crimes like 'being Arabs' and 'living in land I want to take over'.
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goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
64. couldn't be more unamerican if they tried
what a sick group of people
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
65. How on earth did I miss this thread?
Thankfully Thom Hartmann directed his listeners to this thread. Bookmarking.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
66. This thread just featured on Thom Hartmann's show on
Edited on Wed Aug-15-07 11:53 AM by Texas Explorer
Air America Radio! Congratulations ck4829 and Raindog! Your works were recognized on-air.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. LOL
kick. I'll have to find the transcript. Don't get Air Am here. waaah.
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #72
78. LOL, I don't get Air America either
Nice job RainDog.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
67. Kick for Hartmann Listeners n/t
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
68. Oh dear Gods
What madness is this?
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
69. kicking for Thom Hartmann who mentioned this thread today
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thegreatcause2 Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
70. What about Neil Bush?
Under this scenario, could Neil have his turn after Jeb?
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
73. Not particularly surprising.
This is an astonishing warping of Roman history.

Caesar undertook the destruction of Gaul after a political misfortune left him exile in a sense. The Gallic Wars allowed him to generate massive propaganda that made him a darling amongst the commons for defending against the Evil Barbarians, while at the same time, he generated massive wealth from looting and pillaging the Gauls. Caesar used the campaign against the Gauls to put himself in charge, he did not, as the article implies, fight them as the Roman leader.

The slaughter of the Gauls was the opening act of the destruction of Classical civilization, so in that sense, the analogy holds true.

I hate the stupid, but there are no words for my loathing of the intentionally stupid.


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The Night Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
74. The weenies at Stormfront certainly like FSM and Philip Atkinson...
Edited on Wed Aug-15-07 04:35 PM by The Night Owl
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waterdancer Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
77. when the google cache link expires
due to a spider update, one can still find an archive of a (Yahoo) cached version of the page @ http://www.webcitation.org/5R9ikXAUH
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. thanks for the cache....and kick
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