Suspect in multiple execution is undocumented with record

[NYVet]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/10/schoolyard.killings/index.html?iref=newssearch

A suspect who surrendered to the mayor of Newark, New Jersey, pleaded not guilty Friday to murder and related charges in the execution-style slayings of three college students in a schoolyard.

<snip>

Carranza is an undocumented immigrant from Peru, his lawyer acknowledged in court. Carranza had been using a bogus Social Security number, Sheriff Armando Fontoura said.

<snip>

Carranza had been scheduled to appear in court Monday to answer two previous indictments. One accuses him of sexually assaulting and threatening to kill a 13-year-old, a girlfriend's child. Another charges him with an array of assault and weapons offenses.

<End>

Now my question is this. Why was he let free when he has shown that he is a scumbag?

[MichaelHarris]

1. Don't know

but I do know one thing, the color of his skin or the country of his origin had NOTHING to do with the murders. Think of the older job applications where you had to put your race down. Did that one check box indicate if you would be a good employee or a bad employee?

[napi21]

2. I didn't know they removed that question from job apps, but

I believe the reason the question was even there was because employment/unemployment is tracked by race. Even if the question is not on the app anymore, you can be sure the information gets recorded somehow. You know we hear reports of unemployment % in the black community etc.

[MichaelHarris]

4. it's a

voluntary answer now. The OP's post will surly be O'Reilys's lead in tonight. For some reason he equates violent crime with illegal immigrants. The people most likely to stay out of trouble is undocumented workers, they don't want trouble, just a job.

[Wcross]

5. The fact he was here illegally had everything to do with it.

He should have been held in jail on the previous charges until he could be deported. If the government did its job these three young people would still be alive today.

[MichaelHarris]

8. all

illegals kill? I get it, lets lock up husbands. They just as likely to kill their wives. If we had locked up Scott Peterson then Lacey would be alive.

[jojo54]

19. Why are you on Wcross' ass?

This person may have physically done the deed, but it was the government who allowed it to happen because of their own ineptitude. Let's put the blame where it belongs, not on another DUer.

[MichaelHarris]

24. I'm not on

anyone's ass. I just want to know why his ethnic background is important to the story?

[Wcross]

34. You are making it an "ethnic background" issue.

I am merely stating the fact that he was not supposed to be in the country. He had been arrested on previous charges yet the government did not address his legal status before he was released. It just so happens this guy is from Peru. I would feel the same way if he was here illegally from ANY country no matter WHAT his ethnic background was.
If you want to play the "ethnic" game that's fine. Do you value the lives of three young promising black youths less than any other? Would you feel the same way if he was suspected of killing three white kids?

[MichaelHarris]

36. NO

the OP made it an ethnic issue when HE made it central to his post. A murderer is a murderer not matter what skin color.

[Wcross]

51. He mentioned his country of origin, not his race.

"Carranza is an undocumented immigrant from Peru". Maybe you would feel better if he had said "The suspect is an undocumented immigrant from an undisclosed country"?

You are also assuming he is Hispanic. I just checked out the demographics of Peru.

""""Peru is a multiethnic nation formed by the combination of different groups over five centuries. Amerindians inhabited Peruvian territory for several millennia before Spanish Conquest in the 16th century; infectious diseases, famine, war and exploitation decreased their population from an estimated 9 million in the 1520s to around 600,000 in 1620.<68> Spaniards and Africans arrived in large numbers under colonial rule, mixing widely with each other and with indigenous peoples. After independence, there has been gradual immigration from England, France, Germany, Italy, and Spain.<69> Chinese arrived in the 1850s as a replacement for slave workers and have since become a major influence in Peruvian society.<70> Other immigrant groups include Arabs and Japanese.""""

So what is Mr. Carranza's ethnic background? I sure don't know but I DO KNOW he wasn't in our country legally.

[MichaelHarris]

55. that's

the argument you're going with?

[Wcross]

65. Better than trying to make it a racial issue when it is clearly not.

One more fucking time. This person was not in the country legally. He should not have been here regardless of his race. I WISH he was Irish so you wouldn't be able to claim some kind of racial bias. Unfortunately I can not change the facts.

[MichaelHarris]

68. no

you actually like the debate right where it's at. ANY illegal will seem to bolster your argument, truth is, it's not the illegal, it's the system.

[acmavm]

72. Here's one for you. HE WAS A FUCKING VIOLENT CRIMINAL

Will that work????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[H2O Man]

84. It works. n/t

[Wcross]

21. Did I say that all illegals kill?

I said he had been arrested for other charges. He was also in the country illegally. He should have been held in jail on the original charges until the cases was resolved. He should have then been deported.
It isn't the fact that he was here illegally, its the fact that he had been arrested for sexually assaulting a 13 year old previously and was released. Released to go on and kill the three teens.

[MichaelHarris]

26. then

why does the OP feel the need to only mention his illegal status in the original post and not the other crimes bebore he callecd him a scumbag?

Re-read the original post, it says nothing about the other crimes he was charged (not convicted yet of). It only mentions the recent crime and his illegal status. Do you think the OP has a mission?

[NYVet]

61. For the record

I stated that he was accused of other crimes, and included those crimes.

[MichaelHarris]

63. does his

scumbag label come from his illegal status or the crimes he's charged with?

[NYVet]

83. The crimes he is charged with are what makes him a scumbag NT

I said NT

[alarimer]

95. Has he been convicted of those other things or not?

Simply being accused is evidence of nothing. Police make false arrests all the time. They get the wrong person, they "round up the usual suspects" etc.

[Richard Steele]

3. I'm sorry- where was it "shown that he was a scumbag"?

:shrug:

[MichaelHarris]

7. I think the OP

wants us to believe since he's an alien he has to be a scumbag. Right out of Bill Oreily's playbook.

[Richard Steele]

31. Well, we all know that people are never ACCUSED unless they're guilty.

Especially BROWN people. :eyes:

I'll tell ya something that makes no sense to me about this:
if I was a child-molesting illegal immigrant who just committed
three murders, no way in HELL would I be TURNING MYSELF IN VOLUNTARILY.

If I was able to sneak INTO the USA, I could sure as hell
sneak back out!

[MichaelHarris]

33. LOL

"Especially BROWN people. :eyes:" That's what they want us to believe for sure. I'm about to start photo essay on migrant farm workers in Washington. I've met hundreds so far, not one wanted to kill me.

[leftynyc]

58. He was fingered in a photo lineup by

a fourth victim - a black woman who is under police protection at the hospital she is recovering in. Race has nothing to do with the fact the alleged perp was ILLEGAL.

[MichaelHarris]

71. weren't

the Duke LaCrosse players also identified in a line-up?

[Richard Steele]

76. Oh, well that's all the proof we need then.

People in hospitals recovering from major emergency surgeries
NEVER make mistakes when they ID people from polaroids.
And police NEVER pressure them to pick the photo of a guy they
already suspect, either.

THAT just doesn't happen.

[Wcross]

9. Nah, he is a fine individual.......

"Carranza had been scheduled to appear in court Monday to answer two previous indictments. One accuses him of sexually assaulting and threatening to kill a 13-year-old, a girlfriend's child. Another charges him with an array of assault and weapons offenses."

Nothing wrong with sexually assaulting a 13 year old now is there? The "array" of assault and weapons charges are probably just normal things people do.

[MrCoffee]

11. there's something wrong with not being able to defend yourself against charges

he was going to answer an indictment. he wasn't convicted, he wasn't even tried.

[IndianaJones]

12. these things will be ignored. you will be flamed. nt.

[MichaelHarris]

15. never said that

he was a fine individual. I just said the color of skin had nothing to do with the crime. If you think the country of his origin has something to do with his crimes I'd like to know why, enlighten us.

[Richard Steele]

23. And he was found guilty of that in a court of law, was he?

Or has he simply been ACCUSED of these things,
just like the three murders you've already assumed
he committed?

[Wcross]

30. He shouldn't have been released from custody.

He should have been held until the issue was resolved in a court of law. He should not have been eligible for bail due to the seriousness of the charges. Sexual assault is a fairly serious charge. He should have also faced deportation hearings before being released.

[MichaelHarris]

35. that's

all fine and dandy but the judge granted bail. Are you saying he should have been held indefinitely because of his skin color? Do you mean to say because he's illegal he shouldn't bail on ANY crime he maybe accuse of?

[Wcross]

37. You seem obsessed with skin color.

You never seem to get the fact he wasn't supposed to be in the country in the first place.

[MichaelHarris]

39. Why was

he not allowed? Could he have immigrated legally and still kill?

[Richard Steele]

38. What custody?

Nothing at that link says he was ever in any custody to be
released from.

Are you reading some other story? If so, could you share it
with the rest of us?

[Wcross]

46. Wake up.

"Carranza had been scheduled to appear in court Monday to answer two previous indictments. One accuses him of sexually assaulting and threatening to kill a 13-year-old, a girlfriend's child. Another charges him with an array of assault and weapons offenses."

How do you get indicted without being arrested at some point?

[MichaelHarris]

50. So

before Monday what should he have been locked up for? A judge set bail, he made it. I'm handing you this argument on a silver platter. The issue is the Justice system and the low bail, not his immigration status. Come on, run with it. You can win.

[Wcross]

60. Why wasn't he also held for his immigration status?

You don't think he should have answered for his breaking our immigration laws? The first time it is only a misdemeanor, if a suspect is deported once and is in the country again illegally it is a felony.
I agree the judge should not have set bail. The suspect should have been transferred to federal custody to face immigration charges.
In Nashville, near where I live, any illegal that is booked into jail is turned over to the feds for possible deportation.
HIS IMMIGRATION STATUS was not addressed by the court as it should have been. I realize we can't and shouldn't deport all illegal aliens. We SHOULD deport all that break our laws.

[MichaelHarris]

67. and

you'll vote for a candidate that says, "Look, we have to triple your income tax to pay for these detention centers"?

Should we put illegals in big-time prisons until we deport them thus creating more violent offenders? You seem to have a solution now lets discuss it's implementation.

[RaleighNCDUer]

81. The point is, bail is a guarantee to return to court at an appointed time -

it is granted for several reasons, among which is to relieve crowding in city jails. It used to be that if a person had no ties to the community, such as family or property, he would not get bail because he was an obvious flight risk. If a person is an illegal immigrant, he is by definition lacking those ties to the community - he has more to gain by running than he has to lose by staying, particularly if facing serious charges like sexual assault and weapons violations.

Back in the days before the war on drugs, he'd have never been granted bail, but they need all the jail space they have for the potheads being shuttled through the system.

It is not his ethnicity that is the problem, it is his transient status which, in saner times, would have prevented him getting bail.

[Sequoia]

16. sexually assaulting and threatening to kill a 13-year-old, a girlfriend's child

That answer your question !!!!

[MichaelHarris]

17. did his

being an illegal alien have anything to do with that? Do illegal molest children more? Do people from Peru murder at a higher rate? Then why does if have to be a central point in the original post?

[Sequoia]

40. No, but you can bet that will be used against him and

all illegial aliens. We can't even throw legal citizens in jail for assulting children.

[MichaelHarris]

45. Bill-O

will be all over. Not for the right reason, only for the skin color reason. The people I'm debating here on this have a case, they just don't see it. They can win the argument just by asking why a judge posted a low bail for a violent criminal? Skin color doesn't even matter, a failed justice system does.

The OP here and all his defenders, even Bill-O fall into the same gaping hole of immigration when reporting these types of crimes. They just don't realize it's a broken justice system releasing violent criminals. They would rather make it an illegal alien issue.

[Sequoia]

57. It's easier that way..join the band wagon and point fingers

instead of adressing the real problem.

[acmavm]

94. This thread is so fucked up for so many reasons. And of course, the

'race' card comes out again.

[Wcross]

69. What utter BULLSHIT.

"We can't even throw legal citizens in jail for assulting children." We can't throw people in jail for sexually assaulting children? That's news to me, around here they do incarcerate people for doing that. I guess things are different in New Jersey? It must be pedophile heaven up there!


BTW- I didn't bother correcting your misspelled word.

[Sequoia]

77. Salinas child molester avoids prison, gets probation

A former Little League coach who pleaded no contest to child molestation charges avoided a prison sentence and was placed on probation, outraging the family of one of the victims.

Superior Court Judge Richard Curtis said Thursday he believed David Martin, 42, was truly remorseful and could be rehabilitated with therapy. He gave Martin credit for time served and placed him on five years' probation.

Curtis had imposed an eight-year prison sentence but suspended it pending successful completion of probation. The judge warned Martin he would be sent to prison if he violated probation.

The father of a 9-year-old girl Martin molested was stunned.

"The sentence he got was a slap on the hand. I don't know what I'm going to tell my kids," said the man, whose name was withheld to protect his daughter.

Defense attorney James Dozier said it was the right decision, and he believed Martin was truly remorseful.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/08/10/state/n064656D65.DTL&tsp=1

You're white, you're right, and that's all folks!

BTW: Thanks for not correcting my spelling, I must be a moran.

[MrCoffee]

18. once again...never tried, never convicted, only indicted

[Richard Steele]

20. And he was found guilty of that in a court of law, was he?

[DS1]

52. Oh come the fuck ON

Tell that to Bob Allen

Vitter

Michael Vick

George W. Bush for that matter.

[MrCoffee]

6. assphinchter says what now?

thanks for playing, we really liked having you here.

[MichaelHarris]

10. Bill Oreily's

radio show just end? Seems they are out in force.

[Squatch]

13. Git your popcorn! Git your popcorn, here!

:popcorn:

[MrCoffee]

14. i'll buy that for a dollar

:popcorn:

[MichaelHarris]

22. man you can debate these

people till both heart valves fail, they'll never understand this story could have been reported without even mentioning skin color, country of origin, or hair style. Being illegal didn't make him a violent criminal like O'Reily will have them believe.

[Richard Steele]

25. Good call, Squatch! Scoot over a bit, will ya?

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[slackmaster]

74. I'm in!

:popcorn:

[judaspriestess]

27. damn Mexcuns

:sarcasm: (just in case)

[MichaelHarris]

28. LOL

killing all our white women and taking our jobs.

[seemslikeadream]

29. sexually assaulting and threatening to kill a 13-year-old, a girlfriend's child.

It's just not taken seriously, citizen or not

[MichaelHarris]

32. and that

should be the central point in the OPs post. That is the point that would be very important, not the suspect's country of origin. I truly believe the OP has a mission with this post.

[Robson]

56. The point he was making

The point the OP was making is our government should enforcing our laws and should have long ago deported his ass.

[MichaelHarris]

59. then

America will have millions of jobs, picking fruit is fun and the benefits rock.

[Blaze Diem]

41. I couldn't get OUT of this country with a criminal record like that..

Nor could I get into a country "legally" with a record like that..and I'm white..so what does any of this have to do with his race..or country of origin..?

Fact is:He's a suspect in a brutal muder of innocent people..he has a violent criminal record, and the fact that he is illegay in the USA, only makes the need for tighter border security absolutely necessary.

Gotta admit, lots of nasty shit is coming across the southern border because of the ease of entry.
Doesn't make the claim for "poor oppressed people just looking to make a better life for their family and sending money home to mama.." easier to sell, when this happens.

If terrorists wanted to enter this country they could use the southern border. Not like its a big secret, anyone and everyone from anywhere can have access via this route.

Who in the world doesn't know about this..

[MichaelHarris]

44. the question

and main point of the original post should have been about just that, why was a violent criminal not held on a higher bail? The justice system and it's flaws is the important thing, not the nationality of the suspect.

Now if you fall into the "round them up and deport them" crowd then I have no answer for you except teach your kids how to pick apples, someone has to do it. The "round-em up" crowd would want them arrested for even the pettiest offense, held until deported. How much more do you want to spend in taxes for detention centers?

[Blaze Diem]

66. Got some mixed feelings on this my friend..

.."taxes for detention centers"? Start with rehab centers for 10 yr olds, complete with teddy bears and jammies from home.
The centers in Dallas are full, and the blame goes to the drug smugglers who bring this shit called 'Cheese" a mix of heroine and Tylenol, from the southern border into playgrounds and anywhere they can dump it for profit.

Sorry buddy but it aint coming from Canada..or Ireland or any other country..South AMerica via the Mexican border is being seen as the gateway for all things evil and threatening.
You can defend the "Brown Ones" (as you like to say, often), but when this stuff keeps happening and its correleation to the Southern border is the road that brings it to our Nation, you will be continually subject to such scrutiny.
defend the well intentions of those who seek a better life, but when you sound like you are defending a suspected murder just because of his race, then expect a fight.

That's just a fact.

have a great day..

[MichaelHarris]

70. not defending

a suspected murderer because of his race. I'm arguing against a failed justice system that granted a low bail for a violent offender no matter what his skin color is.

[Robson]

97. Why do some like to put their head in sand?

I agree....the drugs that corrupt the minds of hundreds of thousands of young Americans come from south of the border. Most of these young people that get hooked become a lost cause to their families, their non-using friends and become a lifelong burden on society. That should be enough to seal the southern border as though it were a bank vault. No one should be able to cross the Rio Grande unless they are authorized.

Unless you've had experience with drug users you do not understand what this stuff does to society.

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. I have no doubt that people who come here looking for work....

... are predominantly people just struggling to improve their lives.

However, I don't think it should be controversial to observe that people who risk arrest to sneak across a border are self-selecting as more likely to be desperate and less likely to be respectful of the law than the general population.

Unregulated immigration is primarily an economic issue but there's also a criminal issue to consider.

[MrCoffee]

43. Anyone seen the OP lately?

mysterious silence from our good friend NYVet...hmmmm

[seemslikeadream]

47. I did not realize

Thanks for pointing that out :hi:

[MrCoffee]

53. he/she got their 58 posts and rode off into the sunset, apparently.

[MichaelHarris]

48. naww

he tossed out his chunk of stink bait and moved on. Thing is, his bait wasn't even that good.

[NYVet]

79. Actually, I was away from the computer for a bit.

I do have a job that only allows me to check in about 3 or 4 times a day.

[Robson]

96. Welcome to DU

We're a really big tent here and do appreciate diverse opinions and we don't ever sip the cherry kool aid.

BTW I agree with your post.

[seemslikeadream]

49. Perfect timing for a story like this

[Robson]

54. Suspect is not undocumented....he is an ILLEGAL ALIEN

He is in this country illegally thanks to our greedy corporate masters and political leaders in both parties, and the do gooders that believe they are righteous in harboring illegals ( but ignore the harm they do to Americans that have a right to live and work here unimpeded by cheap illegal labor), and a media.

I'd like to see a report on how much gang activity, how many incarcerations, and how many crimes against citizens and other illegals are perpetrated by illegals versus legal residents or citizens. When one subscribes to illegal behavior as either the alien or the employer it is a slippery slope from there.

[MichaelHarris]

62. The harm

he did to Americans has nothing to do with his illegal status. Americans harm each other more than any nation on earth, we'll "pop a cap" in someone's ass in a heartbeat.

Wanna know the prison numbers? 100% Americans.

[ComerPerro]

75. Bill OReiley, is that you?

what a wonderfully vile and racist piece of trash you have written. Maybe you are in the wrong place.

[Robson]

78. LOL...Since when is opposing illegal behavior "vile and racist"?

No where in my post did I mention race. Race has nothing to do with it. He was here illegally and based upon his record was dirt bag who killed some innocent achieving young human beings. He likely is a worthless gangsta.

[ComerPerro]

82. gangs, criminal activity, your words imply race

"illegal" has become a convenient word to allow people to embrace their racist feelings

[THUNDER HANDS]

64. well, it could be

that when he was originally arrested, it was within the state of New York and categorized as a state-level offense, which differs from a federal offense whereupon INS and Homeland Security would get involved.

I just did a parole hearing with a guy who came from the Dominican Republic here illegally, got caught selling and laundering $70,000 worth of cocaine. He's serving a six-year sentence in a Federal prison upon which he'll be deported once he serves his six years.

I'm not sure the state can do that if he wasn't arrested on federal charges.

[ComerPerro]

73. Oh good. Does this mean another round of scapegoating from supposed progressives?

[Robson]

80. My friend, I didn't know being progressive meant accepting illegal behavior

Does (or should) being "progressive" mean that we in the USA should accept criminal thugs who enter our country illegally with open arms? :shrug:

[TahitiNut]

87. Doesn't everyone know that "progressive" is synonymous with "agrees with ME"??

After all, it's obvious that "disagrees with ME" is synonymous with "racist" and/or "sexist," right?

:eyes:

FWIW... anyone who makes any reference to "illegal aliens" is immediately pegged as a xenophobic racist who hates immigrants. It's so mush easier that way. It eliminates all that bothersome reading and writing ... and the burdens of civility.

:sarcasm:

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[H2O Man]

89. I do not

even see the DUer "Me" participating on this thread; hence, we do not know what he/she thinks about it.

I think that we should use Martin's measure: that we judge people not on the color of their skin, but rather, upon the content of their character.

More, if the accused is an illegal alien or not, our legal system should be providing the same basic safeguards. I recognize the system is not perfect, but I assume we all agree that the court system should treat everyone as innocent until proven guilty.

Still, there are questions about how people facing serious legal charges should be treated, which includes assessing their potential risk for things like flight and/or posing a danger to the community. Differences of opinion do not equal racism, etc.

More, people outside of the legal system have no obligation to hold no opinion on an accused person's possible guilt. The vast majority of DUers aren't going to serve on a jury hearing this case.

[TahitiNut]

91. Agreed.

Of course.

[H2O Man]

93. Hopefully

"Me" will post here so, so that we can be sure.

[Catherine Vincent]

85. I hope whoever did this terrible crime is found and locked up forever.

:(

[devilgrrl]

86. No white American-born asshole would ever do such a thing!

:eyes:

[ecstatic]

88. I dunno. This doesn't pass the smell test

Why would an illegal alien run around town executing kids for no reason? I'm just shocked that the MSM is even covering this story, but I guess now that the suspect is "illegal" they have found a gem they can run with. I know Lou Dobbs will be all over this tonight!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

90. Because he's an asshole and an idiot?

:shrug:

A lot of people think they can get away with things, illegal alien or not......

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

92. Uh oh......

A few days ago some DU'ers were saying the story would be forgotten about by the MSM because of the victims. Now the complaint will be they are covering it too much.

What's also sad is the 15 year old boy involved in the shooting.......damn.