Didnt Bill Clinton sign NAFTA into law????

[az chela]

[EFerrari]

1. Is this a trick question?

:hi:

[az chela]

2. NO I remember reading in a book that he signed the Nafta intolaw

Just wondered if i read this wrong???

[EFerrari]

3. It's right as far as I know. n/t

[az chela]

4. Just wondered as Hillary was saying today how she would cancel

it and how it took so many jobs out of this country

[EFerrari]

6. And I'm the Queen of England.

I haven't been watching the debates -- can't stand them for being so produced.

There's local stuff I need to attend to this week, anyway. :)

[MonkeyFunk]

27. You must not have been paying attention

Hillary Clinton said no such thing.

[B Calm]

73. Yes he did sign the republican introduced NAFTA Bill into law, after

it was passed by a REPUBLICAN MAJORITY!

[BeHereNow]

75. A government OF the corporations, BY the corporations, FOR the corporations

I think that about sums it up.
BHN

[RufusTFirefly]

5. Yeah. I don't get it. Of course he did

Clinton signed a lot of shitty laws.

NAFTA, which hosed American labor.

TCA (Telecommunications Act), which has dramatically sped up democracy-threatening media consolidation

DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act), a masterpiece of fundie homophobia

Welfare Reform, which sends a big "fuck you" to thousands in need.

The guy is brilliant, charismatic, and empathetic, but he was a big-time triangulator, just like his wife, who shares much of his brilliance but lacks his charisma and empathy.

[Trisket-Bisket]

12. Here is how to get it.

Bill Clinton won two elections.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

16. I don't get it either

Why would anyone want more of the same?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. Because He Gave Us Breyer And Ginsburg

Not Scailito and Roberts...

Thanks for playing...

[cyclezealot]

58. unless they sway their positions more towards Kucinich's

the above is about the only reason, I'd vote for the likes of Hillary or Biden come election day.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

26. Yep he did.

Although I love Bill for his brilliance and charisma, Michael Moore said Bill was "the best Republican president we've ever had."

I remember the soundbite "That giant suckin' sound is your jobs goin' south" from Ross Perot in '92. He was right.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. Bill Clinton> Michael Moore

I am a devotee of Mr. Moore's films and have put money in his coffers by seeing Fahrenheit 9-11 and Sicko twice but it's easier to knock down a barn than to build one...


Clinton ended twelve years of Republican tyranny, destroyed the notion the Republicans had a lock on the Electoral College, and had to deal with a Republican Congress that loathed him to the point of impeaching him over a blow job because he took away their lock on power...

Clinton was possibly the most deft leader of my lifetime...

[Elwood P Dowd]

7. He signed the implementing legislation

Bush and Carla Hills negotiated the original agreement that was signed in 1992, but it took a vote of Congress on the implementing legislation to make it law.

[az chela]

8. Just wondered why he supported it and Hillary said she would

get rid of the law

[ElizabethDC]

10. I don't think she said she'd get rid of it

she said she'd change the way it was being enforced.

[Elwood P Dowd]

11. Clinton jumped in bed with the money boys and supported NAFTA.

This was before the American people realized what a disaster it would later become. If Hillary, or any other candidate went around bragging about NAFTA today, they would get their ass kicked at the polls.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

18. Bingo! Right on the money!

:kick:

[RufusTFirefly]

9. Oh come on!

Don't you remember the big NAFTA debate?
Gore on one side. Big-eared Ross Perot and his "giant suckin' sound" on the other? Or perhaps you're too young.
The Clinton Admin pushed hard for NAFTA. Don't make it sound as though they just reluctantly inherited it.

[Elwood P Dowd]

13. You're reading my post wrong.

Try it again.

[RufusTFirefly]

14. I did try again. But it didn't help. Your subsequent post did though.

Apparently your original post was a bit too abstruse for my tastes. It is the end of the day though, so I'm not at my sharpest.

[Elwood P Dowd]

15. Old man Bush and his cronies cooked up NAFTA in the late 1980s.

He signed the agreement, but it had to have Congressional approval before it went into effect. That happened in November of 1993 thanks to Clinton.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. I Liked When Gore Gave Perot The Picture Of Smoot-Hawley

Gore fucking owned him...

[Elwood P Dowd]

64. And Gore was fucking wrong.

Smoot-Hawley had minuscule effect on the Depression. I can't believe anyone on this board would still be bragging about Gore winning a debate that helped lead to a disaster such as NAFTA.

[Uncle Joe]

69. I believe the part where Gore shut Perot down, was exposing Perot's own private NAFTA Monopoly

on national television, Perot believed it was good enough for him, just not the rest of the nation, Perot was never the same after that debate. If this had been a fight, they would have called it in the first round.

People that want to blame their circumstances solely on NAFTA act as if Bush/Cheney haven't been in charge for the past six+ years.

[Wiley50]

17. He was throwing Elk steaks Trying To Get the Republiwolves off his ass

Same story with the telecom act, Welfare Reform act

An eskimo hunter went out and killed an elk
just as he finished tying the elk onto his dogsled
a huge ugly pack of wolves attacked him
He, His dogs and the sled took off running for their lives

The wolves were gaining on him so he cut an elk steak from the carcass
and threw it behind to the wolves chasing him
A couple of the wolves stopped in their tracks and began fighting over the elk steak

The rest kept coming more determined and ferocious than before

So he kept throwing elk steaks until he had thrown the wolves the entire elk carcass

The wolves finally overtook him and ate him and his dogs

Moral of the story:

Don't throw elk steaks

[BeHereNow]

19. All part of the Trlateral Commission plan-

NAFTA was cooked up by the TC-
look it up.
BHN

[az chela]

20. OK I will thanks

I was just curious why Bill outsourced half the jobs in this country and now his wife is saying how she would end it

[BeHereNow]

21. She is well aware of the next plan- read about it for yourself:

http://www.trilateral.org/nagp/regmtgs/pdf_folder/pastor02.pdf
and here, where the evolution of NAFTA is proposed, as it pertains to North America:
http://www.trilateral.org/nagp/regmtgs/pdf_folder/rubio02.pdf

The TC is often dismissed as "conspiracy theory."
Trouble is, the don't hide their plans- people just
don't know where to look.
If it isn't hidden, it isn't a conspiracy.
The TC would rather you not know their agenda which is
why they are never brought up in the media, though they are
the ones exercising their agenda- the same that you see unfolding now
before our very eyes.

BHN

[MonkeyFunk]

29. She said no such thing

what the hell are you talking about?

[BeHereNow]

31. Why don't you take the time to read the Trilateral Commission links I posted?

http://www.trilateral.org/nagp/regmtgs/pdf_folder/rubio02.pdf
Not that I expect you to understand the big picture as it relates to
the Clintons and the op.

BHN

[MonkeyFunk]

32. Why don't you read my post again?

Hillary Clinton never said she'd cancel NAFTA. I'm trying to figure out how the OP got that notion.

[BeHereNow]

33. READ the TC links.

I read your post, now follow up by reading the links I posted.
What ever Clinton said, I assure you it is related to the
TC stand on NAFTA.
BHN

[MonkeyFunk]

34. why should I read your

stupid links?

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said.

I'm merely stating that Clinton never said she would cancel NAFTA, as the OP claimed, and I'm trying to figure out where that idea came from.

I couldn't give less of a shit about your links.

[BeHereNow]

35. As usual, your grace, decorum and Internet etiquette leave me speechless.

Why indeed- you are clearly an ignorant and arrogant individual.
Sorry I attempted to enlighten such a fine fellow as you.
What was I thinking?

BHN

[MonkeyFunk]

36. you were thinking

you were arguing with someone else, as far as I can tell.

I made one very simple assertion - that Hillary Clinton never said she'd cancel NAFTA. Why you thought that entitled you to boss me around and order me to read links about the trilateral commission is beyond me.

[BeHereNow]

37. Heaven forbid you educate yourself about the Clintons and their association with the TC.

Order you around?
Please.
If you do not possess the same knowledge as I, than there
is really no reason to think we can disuss the topic, eh?
Good night MF.
BTW-
I can think of another name that suits you much better, based on your
abbreviated name "MF" ...just occured to me as I saw it in black and white
on my screen! Can you guess it?
LOL
BHN

[MonkeyFunk]

38. what are you going on about?

It's not your job to educate me.

Again, your links don't interest me. I didn't ask about the trilateral commission. I asked only why the OP believed Clinton said she'd cancel NAFTA. What don't you understand about that?

[BeHereNow]

39. Because I am a patient person, I will explain this to you-

You can not separate the NAFTA, Clintons and Trilateral Commission
in a discussion about NAFTA.
I know I'm wasting my time telling you this, but at least
I will now go to sleep knowing I did my best to try to bring you
into the light.
BHN

[MonkeyFunk]

40. how arrogant

Do you walk up to strangers on the street and lecture them about things?

I wasn't even having a discussion about NAFTA - I was trying to figure out why the OP thought clinton would cancel it. That's it - end of story.

Go preach to somebody else.

[BeHereNow]

41. No MF, it is you who are arrogant- refusing to learn is the ultimate mark of arrogance.

Not to mention ignorance.

The OP asked, "Didn't Clinton sign NAFTA"
If you were not so clinically brick headed, you might take the time
to learn about the background of NAFTA and how it relates
to the TC and the Clinton association with the same.

BHN

[MonkeyFunk]

44. you assume

I don't already know the history of NAFTA.

I've never said anything about NAFTA, per se, and it's arrogant for you to think you need to school me on the subject.

Again, I wondered why the OP claimed that Hillary Clinton said she'd cancel it, when she said no such thing. That's the extent of my questions in this thread.

People who think they need to educate everybody else are tiresome and boorish.

[BlooInBloo]

47. Wow - what a dense person you're dealing with.

[LBJDemocrat]

60. I'm not sure, but

I think Clinton has hinted at how NAFTA didn't turn out as well as planned. She may have said that she'd cancel NAFTA, and this could be possible, given that she would replace NAFTA with the Trilateral Commission or a North American Union.

[MonkeyFunk]

61. sorry

she never said anything of the sort. I wish the OP would reply to my repeated request for an explanation.

[Elwood P Dowd]

22. David Rockefeller's bunch was pushing it years before Clinton was elected.

I never thought it would pass after Clinton was elected, but then he and Gore turned up the heat. They acted more like republicans than democrats. Bill Richardson, Bill Bradley, Robert Matsui, Tom Foley, and a few other dems tilted the balance in favor of NAFTA when it appeared dead in the water.

[az chela]

23. Well this makes me think Hillary is not looking out for the

best interests of this country and also who bill and poppa bush are such good friends

[BeHereNow]

25. The Trilaterals and the Council on Foreign Relations do not see the world as we do.

Please do take time to research their philosophy.
It will make things so much clearer to you, as far
as what we are witnessing.
I can't tell you it will make you sleep better,
but at least you will be far more informed than
the average sheep.

BHN

[az chela]

28. I read about the trilateral commision years ago but have forgotten

All about it.I will now do a search on it.Thanks for the info

[BeHereNow]

30. Read the links I posted concerning their latest on NAFTA-

Also, you might want to read some of Antony Sutton's work.
He is one of the best scholars on the TC.
Also Stephen Gill and Holly Sklar.

BHN

[BeHereNow]

24. Elwood, please do read the two TC documents I posted links to above.

Especially the second link to the Trilateral Commission document which discusses
the evolution of NAFTA in regard to the North Americas.
BHN

[dysfunctional press]

42. of course he did- he's a dlc corporatist dino.

and so's his old lady.

[az chela]

43. My point exactly

[MonkeyFunk]

45. will

you please explain why you think Hillary Clinton said she'd cancel NAFTA?

[Maine-ah]

52. wow. It's like talking to a brick wall.

Maybe they have you on ignore? Or maybe the whole op is just flamebait?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. I Like Clinton...

The Clinton years rocked...

Peace and prosperity...

[dysfunctional press]

68. nafta, wto, telecom act of '94, defense of marriage act...

yeah...those things really "rock"...:eyes:

[NotGivingUp]

72. his old lady would be his mother. n/t

[dysfunctional press]

76. when you get married, the 'old lady' title is legally transferred as well.

and that's valid in every state except utah.

[robcon]

46. One of Clinton's finest moments.

His ability to get NAFTA through Congress was one of his finest actions as president. NAFTA will pay dividends to the U.S., Canada and Mexico for decades.

We need a new, improved NAFTA to eliminate the subsidies and protected industries that are still allowed by the current NAFTA.

[Elidor]

63. Umm...

NAFTA will pay dividends to the U.S., Canada and Mexico corporations for decades, at the cost of US jobs.

Fixed that for you.

[Elwood P Dowd]

65. I see RobConservative is back celebrating fake free trade deals

that have cost us millions of jobs and driven down the standard of living for working Americans. NAFTA is an outsourcing/investment scam and not free trade.

[robcon]

77. We can always read into someone who tries to make a pun on a DU name

What I read is: out of ammo.

[Enrique]

53. Clinton fought for it against great opposition in his own party

you seem to be implying that this is some sort of secret, which it's not.

[mdmc]

54. Big Dog is a free trader

:kick:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

55. Bush 41 authored NAFTA and had it waiting on Bill's desk on his inauguration day

it had already passed both houses and 41 didn't want the repukes to be labeled with this nightmares act ...wanted people to be able to blame the dems for it.

just saying

[onenote]

57. Wrong. It was signed before Clinton took office, but wasn't approved by Congress

until November 1993.

You know these things can be looked up. Why misstate facts?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

59. NAFTA was a Cconservative iniation....bush 41......

The agreement was initially pursued by conservative governments in the United States and Canada supportive of free trade, led by Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, U.S. President George H. W. Bush, and the Mexican President Carlos Salinas de Gortari. The three-nation NAFTA was signed on 17 December 1992, pending its ratification by the legislatures of the three countries. There was considerable opposition in all three countries, but in the United States it was able to secure passage after Bill Clinton made its passage a major legislative initiative in 1993. During his presidential campaign he had promised to review the agreement, which he considered inadequate. Since the agreement had been signed by Bush under his fast-track prerogative, Clinton did not alter the original agreement, but complemented it with the aforementioned NAAEC and NAALC. After intense political debate and the negotiation of these side agreements, the U.S. House passed NAFTA by 234-200 (132 Republicans and 102 Democrats voting in favor, 156 Democrats, 43 Republicans, and 1 independent against).<4> and the U.S. Senate passed it by 61-38<5> Finally, Clinton sanctioned the ratification in November of 1993.

[onenote]

62. I take this as an admission that I'm correct.

You said that it already had passed both houses when Clinton took office. In fact, as I stated, it was signed by Bush I before Clinton took office, but wasn't approved by Congress until November 1993, 11 months after Clinton took office. Specifically, the House of Representatives approved NAFTA, by a vote of 234 to 200 on November 17, 1993, and the Senate voted 60 to 38 for approval on November 20. It was signed into law by Clinton on December 8, 1993, and took effect on January 1, 1994.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

67. yes............you are correct

[onenote]

56. yes he did. And Al Gore's defense of NAFTA played a major part

in ensuring its passage (Gore crushed Perot in a televised "debate" on Larry King).

So what?

[yurbud]

66. official spin of penitents: "we didn't realize the negative effects it would have" translation:

we didn't think you were smart enough to catch us.

[BeHereNow]

71. Amen- you speak the truth.

BHN

[B Calm]

70. NAFTA was a REPUBLICAN BILL, passed by a REPUBLICAN MAJORITY

and signed into law by a Democratic President! Anymore stupid questions you need answered?

[BeHereNow]

74. Monkeyfunk is insisting on someone answering his/her stupid question- can you help?

MF keeps insisting that the op explain how they got the
impression that Hillary Let's-Walmart-America Clinton said she would
end the NAFTA.
Hillary did not say that- true, but what Monkeyfunk
does not comprehend is that her comments about "changes"
are directly related to the next part of the Trilateral Commission's
agenda.

Instead, like a willful child, Monkeyfunk wants to
reduce the discussion to pinning the poster on a misinterpretation
of what Ms. Walmart said.

There are far bigger issues at hand where the future of NAFTA
is concerned.

Heaven forbid Monkeyfunk find out what they are-
NO, it is much more important to badger the OP and others
about a misunderstanding.

BHN