DUers getting calls from military recruiters: Post dirty tricks here

[EFerrari]

so DU parents can help their kids prepare for them.

Here is the thread that inspired this one -- where a young woman posed as a friend to get around a parent and to the kid:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1379601

[Squatch]

1. Why "dirty tricks"?

Teach your kids to stand up on their own to calmly, succinctly, and maturely deliver the message that they are not interested now nor will they be interested in serving in the armed forces.

[EFerrari]

2. Did you check out the thread in the OP, Squatch?

I agree with you but knowing what's coming at them can't hurt. :shrug:

[Zywiec]

12. I'm with you.

Also, I just don't see how asking for someone by name on the phone is a dirty trick. What should you say when you call someone's house?

[EFerrari]

41. Trying to pass yourself off as a friend or even a peer

is a dirty trick. It's dishonest and more, it's an abuse of power. If someone did that to my kid, I'd file a complaint in a heartbeat.

You wanna get my kids killed, you're going to have to fight me for them.

[LeftyMom]

81. Exactly. It's a business call, so you introduce yourself and say why you're calling.

I do it where I work, all morning long "Hi this is (my name) calling from (where I work) can I please speak to (whoever my contact is)?" and last I heard the military was rather bigger on formality than my workplace. I mean, even the kids in basic know how to use the phone appropriately, so if they're skipping that they're doing it intentionally to deceive.

[yardwork]

60. I think that you misunderstand. The "dirty tricks" are being done by the recruiters.

This thread is to keep track of the lies and tricks that some recruiters are using to get at kids.

[EFerrari]

72. Thanks for clarifying, yardwork!

:hi:

[EFerrari]

3. kick

[Bjornsdotter]

4. Yep

...same here. The Marine that showed up at my door acted as if he knew my daughter from school. However, he never got past me.

Cheers

[Zywiec]

7. He wasn't in uniform? n/t

[Bjornsdotter]

18. He was

...but my daughter has an unusual name for the US, it's Swedish and most people pronounce it wrong. He pronounced it correct and the way he introduced himself "Hi I'm Brad, is ------ home?"

When I asked how he knew my daughter, he said from ------ High School. I pushed farther and asked what year he graduated and exactly how he knew my daughter. That's when he said he never met her, but he was visiting to talk to her about the Marines.

Odd thing, when I opened the door I thought he was there to talk to my son, so I was a bit shocked when he asked for my daughter.

Cheers

[YOY]

32. Heftig!

Myket heftig!

[Bjornsdotter]

33. Tack så mycket! n/t

[EFerrari]

8. Well done, Bjornsdotter! I'm sure your daughter will eventually

appreciate your effort to save her life.

:bounce:

[coffeenap]

29. Trust me, my friend, she already does! Bjornsdotter is a good

friend of mine and her kids are lucky to have her!

[Beelzebud]

5. When I was 18, I told a recruiter I'd rather be a Canadian than a Marine.

Needless to say they stopped calling after that.

Although I imagine that was probably also the day my FBI file was created. :D

[EFerrari]

6. LOL! 'Way to go!

:applause:

[alfredo]

28. A file is a badge of honor.

[CoffeeCat]

35. LOL!!

Wow, that was hilarious.

You made me wheeze...I sounded like Hong Kong Phooey for a second.

Thanks for the laughs!

:rofl:

[DarkTirade]

44. Your comment gives me a strong urge

to quote a good portion of 'Alice's Restaurant'. :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. My son talked to them at school and told them he was a musician

So they listed all these rap stars who were supposedly in the military or were veterans. We checked it out. They were lying. One of them had even been in prison.

[EFerrari]

10. That's so creepy. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. I told this story the other day - or the rest of this story

After the recruiter listed all these musicians who supposedly had military roots, my kid started arguing with him and ended up in the vice principal's office. The VP suggested "Let's call your mom to tell her you were being rude to a recruiter" and my kid told the VP that he must not know me very well because I would probably be proud of him for what he said to the recruiter. And no, he didn't call me. LOL

[EFerrari]

15. LOL!

:rofl:

[AllegroRondo]

59. Im surprized they didnt try to get him into the Army Band

but I guess they're hurting more for infantry than musicians.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

11. If you tell them you're gay, they'll never call you again

I was sick of being harassed by them; they'd call my house pretty much every day during the summer after my junior -- maybe senior -- year of high school.

Mysteriously, the calls stopped after I told them that...

Use their bigotry against them!

[EFerrari]

13. I think that's a great idea.

:)

[CoffeeCat]

36. If they show up at my doorstep...

I'll dress my son in a pink tu tu and force him to sing "I enjoy being a girl" until
they leave.

That's my plan. And I'm sticking to it.

[kineneb]

39. Corp. Klinger would be proud

(from the M.A.S.H. tv show, for you young folks)...but perhaps the dress would look better with a smaller print fabric...
:evilgrin:

[blondeatlast]

16. Wow, I just read that thread. It isn't perfect, but it's a good time to mention

"Leave My Child Alone."

http://themmob.org/lmca/

Parents: NCLB allows the military access to personal information about your child (name, addres, phone, school records) unless you opt-out. See the link above (as I'm writing, they are doing maintenance, but check later).

[EFerrari]

17. Welcome reminder!

Thanks! :loveya:

[EFerrari]

19. kick

[DFW]

20. My daughters are dual nationals

Even if they manage to find them, they will just speak German until
the jerk gives up.

[EFerrari]

21. Sounds like a plan.

:)

[DFW]

26. It sure worked with Jehovah's Witnesses!!

[EFerrari]

22. kick

[NV Whino]

23. May I suggest

providing recruiters with numbers from the DC Madam's list for more possible recruits.

[Rosemary2205]

24. Here they hire cutie teen girls to hand out flyers.

They are paid about $7 an hour to hang around all the places teenage boys might be without their parents and talk up the military. I've seen them mostly at the mall but a neighbor tells me they have been seen at the skating rink, outside the favorite electronic/gaming/dvd stores and at a local fast food joint that attracts teenage car nutz.

[mainer]

30. The teen girls were mentioned in the NYT yesterday

in an article about a young soldier's death. 15-year-old girls are hired to work for military recruiting offices. So now the Army's using jail bait to lure in young men!

[CoffeeCat]

37. Ok , that is really sickening...

...Where does the miliary find 15-year old girls to act as bait, like this????

That's really sickening!

[cutlassmama]

25. My son was literally stalked by recruiters at his high school and

at home. Every time they came to the door I would tell them he wasn't home. He would literally hide behind the door of his room. Thankfully, we moved shortly thereafter.

[EFerrari]

27. Welcome to DU, cutlassmama.

:)

[cutlassmama]

63. A big thank you for the welcome!

[JacquesMolay]

31. Ask 'em if they pay by the kill....

...n/t

[Madspirit]

34. k&r...n/t

[Control-Z]

38. My son turned 16 in April

I live in a red county, actually, The OC. (orange is the new red, dontcha know.)

If anyone even dreams of approaching my son (which I expect will be happening soon), it won't be pretty. Seriously. I should probably study up on how to be respectfully (and legally) disrespectful.

They are not getting their hands near my son.

[EFerrari]

42. Have you opted him out at his school ? Good luck, dancingalone.

As if sixteen isn't already hard enough. :mad:

[Control-Z]

64. Is that something I can do?

I guess I should know.

Actually, the forms I fill out at the beginning of each school year have a card with yes/no choices. Been filling them out for 17 years without much thought. There are some questions re: military/recruiters - I'd never really paid attention, my oldest is a girl and quite a few years older than her brother, but I've always answered "NO" for all three kids. Is this the opt out you're referring to? If not, do you know how I would go about it?

Thanks, sfexpat2000.:)

[City67]

40. Im proud of what my family has done

I am an Air Force vet, my dad was Army and wounded 3 times in Korea (3 purple hearts, 1 silver star and 1 bronze star). I have one son that was also in the Army and another son that is active duty Navy. Recruiters are "salesmen" like any other and as long as that is kept in mind I think people will do ok. Theres nothing at all wrong with a career in the military as long as you go in with eyes open, for reasons that are good for you and not for some phony emotion of the moment reason. I was a fuck up in high school and didnt have the grades (or money as my family was dirt poor)for college. I got some very high powered electronics and mainframe computer training that has paid off well for over 26 years since I got out. I went in just as Vietnam was winding down so it worked out very well for me. I hope for the best for the kids going in now.

[EFerrari]

43. Welcome to DU, City67, and thank you for your service.

Recruiters have a job to do. So do parents. :)

[City67]

78. Thanks for the welcome

But I have actually been here about a year and a half. I just tend to read more than post. :)

[Ikonoklast]

45. My Dad is a Korean War vet

He told me that he would disown me if I ever joined the service.

He was at Chosin Reservoir. 1st Marines. He still has nightmares.

[City67]

79. I remember my dads nightmares too

He always had pretty much the same dream of incoming mortar rounds. I remember waking up missle of the night to him yelling "incoming!" in his sleep.

Its sorta funny how growing up he always told me how military service would straighten me out. But when i actually started talking about joining he did his best to talk me out of it.

[Marrah_G]

50. Welcome to DU

I have no issue with recruiters. My brother is in the Navy and I am proud of him. I do have a problem with the current batch out-right lying to the kids. They tell them won't get sent to Iraq and that they can get training in whatever they want, blah blah blah. They don't tell the kids as soon as they sign they are no longer calling the shots.

Anyway, in another time and another place I would have stood behind my sons wanting to join the military. Right now though, that recruiter would get an earful from me, not directed at him, but rather an explanation in detail why I will never allow one of my boys to be under the control of King George.

[City67]

80. Thanks for the welcome but...

I have been here a year and a half. :) I tend to just read most of the time.

I have one son thats active duty Navy right now and I worry constantly about him. Hes stationed in the Caribbean but is still part of the southern command. Another son was Army Intelligence but was discharged due to med issues. It was a hell of a relief when I heard that to be honest. With the meat grinder that is Iraq going on right now I would not encourage my other 2 sons to consider the military. :-(

[blogslut]

46. Basic phone etiquette

When a strange person calls for my child and I answer the phone, I ask: "Who's calling please?" That usually befuddles those crafty recruiters.

Actually, the last time a recruiter called was the last time a recruiter called.

I asked who they were and they told me they were from the Army. I told them my child is not interested. The guy got huffy and said, "Why don't you let your child make that decision?"

So I yell out; "Hey? Do you want to talk to a recruiter?" The kids yells back: "No!"

I told the recruiter to never call us gain. And they didn't.

As for the junk mail from the armed services...I treat just like any other garbage.

EDIT TO ADD: IIRC, truly proper phone etiquette dictates that caller is supposed to identify themself after the person answering says "hello". As In: "This is Mary, my I speak to Joseph?"

[piesRsquare]

48. Now that's my kind of response!

Talk about being smart-assy to the recruiter--I love it! :rofl:

When I was in high school, we were all supposed to take the ASVAB, the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (I can't believe I actually remember that!)

Funny, y'know, I just *happened* to not be feeling too well that day, and had to stay home from school (aww, shucks)!

Those of us who missed it were told we still had to take it, and a make-up test date was scheduled. I even got a notice doo-dad thing telling me I was expected to be there.

But oh my gosh, wouldn't ya know...I came down with a *bug* once again!

My high school administration was cool...they didn't bother going after me. They knew I wasn't going to cooperate, so they spared themselves--and me, and my parents--the hassle of trying to get me to take that stupid thing.

I was pretty impressed with myself, in my "civil disobedience"!

[blogslut]

49. I got a story on that too!

We had to take those tests in both my sophomore and senior years of high school. When I took the test the first time, I was a good little girl. I got the results back and the Army said I would make an excellent teacher or nurse or secretary! Sadly (not) the Army didn't send a recruiter over or even give me so much as a call. Those bastids.

In my senior year, I wasn't so nice anymore. I didn't want to take that damned test and I decided to get devious with something given to me by my parents: My unisex first name. I filled out the personal info and when it came to the box that asked my sex, I checked MALE. Needless to say, I took the same damned test, with the same damned intelligence and skills I had two years previous. I got the results back and wouldn't you know? This time the ARMY said I could be a pilot, doctor, engineer! I was a friggin genius! The ARMY wanted me bad! That was until they actually called me and found out I was a girl. Then then never called again. Those bastids.

[EFerrari]

75. OMFG

:rofl:

[blondeatlast]

51. Good point--is the ASVAB still required? I have a story about that, too.

For many years, up until this February, I ordered the "core" book collection for my local very large public library system.

The ASVAB helpers prior to 2002 were very hot, we would order about 150 copies per year (for 13 libraries)--and they had "legs," meaning very few would get returned. Right after 9/11, we simply could not keep enough coming and publishers were unprepared for the demand. We continued to have enormous demand for them until late 2004. After December of that year, we stopped not only having demand for them, they also got returned. The change was dramatic.

I talked to my ex-supervisor the other day and she says they have cut back orders to about TWENTY percent of what we orderd BEFORE 9/11.

That's a HUGE drop. The military used to be a great opportunity for young men and women to go to college. It appears they no longer see it that way.

I can' imagine why...

Bless our soldiers--and bring them home safely. :cry:

[NeedleCast]

58. ASVAB

Still required, but standards have been going lower and lower.

I joined the army in 1997 and remember the day I was shipping out (a mix of nerves and excitement) I was sitting next to a kid who leaned over to me and said "I finally got in!" I said "Finally?" and he told me that, after six attempts and a congressional waiver, he had finally scored the minimum to get into the Marines. I went through a moment of shock at this, because I think I could have aced the ASVAB by the time I was in 9th grade. Here's a guy who can barely spell his own name, and he's going to be sharing a foxhole with someone who might be looking to him to make good decisions.

The standard is now lower from what it was in 1997 from what I've read and I know that in the Army, the requirements to pass many MOS based standards is VERY much lower.

When I went through the basic imagery intelligence course to get my MOS, the class was HARD. It had a 40% fail rate. You essentially spent ten weeks going to classes and there were a total of 12 section tests. Fail a test, you get one chance to re-take it. Fail it a 2nd time, you have to drop back to the next class (which results in more time spent in a training/drill sergeant environment, which no one wants). Fail anything after that, and they re-class you to a different job.

When I got re-called in 2002, I had to go back through a "refresher" class at the imagery school. The standard now is that you can fail a test twice before they re-class you, and if you fail it a third time you can get permission from your battalion commander to re-take it again. Fail it again, and you can get permission from the brigade commander to take it again. Because so much pressure was being put on these commanders to produce "trained" imagery analysts, they almost always gave permission.

That's what the standard has become to produce "trained" troops ready to go do thier job.

[blondeatlast]

61. Do you know if reservists are required to take it?

Since so many of our active duty are reservists and NG--on the front lines--I'm just curious if they had to take it.

I have heard that they've lowered the standards considerably.

:patriot:

[conspirator]

47. Recruiters will use all the tactics used by corporate marketing: lie, deceit, etc. n/t

[seemunkee]

52. I only got one call about my son

Maybe because he wrote "Conscientious Objector" in marker on his Selective Service registration. The one time a recruiter called I told them my son was away at school and besides did they want an anarchist in the Marines.

Haven't received any calls asking for my daughter.

[PA Democrat]

53. I don't think most parents realize how much access the military has to your kid

not counting recruiting by phone.

If your school uses Channel One News, a cable TV "news" show geared for kids, they are being recruited on a daily basis. My school district uses this in classrooms K through 12. The programming is loaded with commercials, and military recruiting ads are a daily staple. My son told me about this several years ago. He said that there are at least one or two ads for the military shown every day.

http://www.counterpunch.org/whitehurst02212005.html

Every time, I've been in my kids' high school, I've seen military recruiters. They don't even have to sign in at the school office like I do. They are free to talk to students in the halls, in the cafeterias, etc. As a parent, I am not permitted to roam the halls of my kids' schools.

Check out the video games your child is playing on-line. The military is using free military video games to recruit your child. Read the articles below.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/26/AR2005052601505.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/30/eveningnews/main609489.shtml

Be aware that anywhere your child goes, they may be approached by a recruiter. My son and I have seen them at the local mall. A recruiter that has signed up one of my son's friends, now regularly "hangs out" with this kid, trying to make contact with this kid's friends to lure in more possible recruits. A friend told me her son has been approached at the local swimming pool.

Also be warned that even if you "opt out" of military recruiting calls, you may still get calls, even after the recruiter has been told repeatedly not to call again. It's been going on at my house all summer.

I'm sick of hearing that the "recruiters are just doing their jobs." Because based upon what I've seen, that "job" apparently includes the freedom to lie, to violate your privacy, and to use a whole host of psychological techniques that many teens are not prepared to deal with. Yes, as a parent, I am trying to do my job to prepare my kids to deal with the pressures of life. But not all kids have parents who are doing the same. I don't think it's too much to ask that military recruiters be forced to respect some basic guidelines and to be honest in their dealings with our children. I'm sure that there are ethical recruiters out there, but there are way too many who aren't.

[AwakeAtLast]

55. Problems are popping up for recruiters in Indiana

A local news station just completed a story about some National Guard recruiters who not only harassed, but physically assaulted some potential female recruits. One guy even fathered a child with one high school student. The girl's father tried to have him prosecuted, but then found out that the age of consent in IN is 16 and he isn't a teacher, so he had not committed any crime! I believe that will be changing soon.

Recuiters are allowed into schools, given carte blanche, and not held to the same standards as teachers when it comes to professional behavior. The whole story left me cringing!

These links are worth a look:

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?s=6771079

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?s=6771020

[EFerrari]

66. We kicked recruiters out of our schools and got roundly trashed

for that decision by O'Loofa, remember?

They shouldn't be allowed on campuses with minor children. That's an abuse of power.

[PA Democrat]

68. Hey sfexpat, my complaint to Senator Bob Casey's office about recruiters

yielded a FAST response. My husband told me that the Marines called earlier today to let us know that they will be making no further phone calls to our home. I am assuming that the Army has also been contacted by Senator Casey's office.

And as a note to anyone who says that kids need to learn how to say no to recruiters, I would remind them that recruiters still have plenty of access to our kids. My son has told them he's not interested numerous times when they have approached him at school. Recruiters are already in our kids schools. Shouldn't I have the ability to prevent them from calling my home? I signed up for the Do Not Call List to prevent phone solicitation by sales people/ lenders, etc., why shouldn't I have the right to do the same with the military?

[EFerrari]

70. It's unreasonable to expect children to assert themselves with

UNIFORMED adults!

Good for you, PA Democrat!

Maybe your kid should send a registered letter to these mofos. Lay down a papertrail!

[PA Democrat]

76. I missed the Marine's call today because my son and I were

making a college visit. For him, college is a choice because of our financial circumstances. He has a very good friend who comes from a poor family and has signed some type of early enlistment deal with the Army. He told us he will be sent to basic training when he graduates in June. I know they have fed this kid a lot of lies, saying they promise he will be given a non-combat job (as if there is such a thing in Iraq) and have told him that they'll pay for his education to become a psychologist.

My son asked me if I thought we could go back to visit the same college and take this friend along and try to convince him to find a way to go to college rather than go into the military. He is so worried about his friend who is a gentle and trusting soul.

Gee, I wonder why the Republicans have done NOTHING to make college affordable? Could it be that they wouldn't have as many desperate kids to entice into serving in their illegal war?

[EFerrari]

77. OMFG.

:mad:

They prey on the idealism of children. You can't get lower than that. :nuke:

[Dragonbreathp9d]

54. The following is completely true, all of it:

Me to the recruiter:

"Well sir, you see, my father is retired Lt. Col. ________, Marines - so as you can guess, if I were to enlist, it wouldn't be in the army. But more than that, Bush is president. I come from a very military family, Grampa in WWII, Uncle in the Battle of the Bulge, my father, Vietnam. I wanted to go to officer's training and become a jet pilot for the MArine Corps. But due to the idiocy and bloodthirst of our so called Cammander-in-Cheif, you will not be getting my 1390 SAT and 32 ACT ass.-"

"We-"

"Let me finish. I also don't appreciate my high school records being given to you guys to call me, especially when my parents have already told you I ain't goin. I would never go to Iraq. EVER. Even if I were in the military. Fuck that shit. The military is to protect our country, not promote the will of moron. Go ahead down your list, I'm sure there are plenty of dropouts you can lie to to get them to enlist."

"Thank you sir."

"Vote Democrat."


-hung up

[blogslut]

56. Good on ya

:)

[EFerrari]

74. Good for you!

:applause:

[Midlodemocrat]

57. When they called for TeenMidlo last year (or so?) I told the recruiter to call back when the Bush

twins enlisted.

Dead silence.

[Horse with no Name]

62. The recruiters here have sports cars that they allow potential recruits to

"take for a spin"...then on the test drives tell them that if they sign up, in no time at all they will be able to buy one of these kinds of cars.
There is NO DOUBT that they are attempting to TARGET youths (just like having a sexy girl call for a young man).
Not many kids in poor rural areas have the opportunities to drive a car like that when the only jobs are at Walmart and McDonalds.
Then to be told that it's "only a signature away"...
By the way, in our small town, I know of 6 kids that have enlisted in the last couple of months.
It's marketing that works.

[LanternWaste]

65. Maybe we could ask the fine, fabulous fellas over at FR

Maybe we could ask the fine, fabulous fellas over at FR for their phone numbers-- I imagine they'd be all atwitter at getting a call from a man in uniform; and might even join up, seeing as they blindly support this conflict. I'm sure they would love to lose an arm or a leg in sacrifice to their tin-gods.

Or we could ask RimJob to allow us to post a pdf copy of an enlistment application on their site. Seeing as how the recruitment age is now 42, and seeing as how most FR posters are males between (I'm guessing) the ages of 27 and 38, it's one giant win-win situation (and, it may allow a lot of them to finally move out of their parents houses and start their own lives...).

:sarcasm: (because I know they have "other" prior ties)

[conspirator]

67. "Don't waste your time sir. This is a liberal, hippie anarchist house.We dont fight imperial wars"nt

[EFerrari]

69. The thing is, if you're a mom and think one of you kids' girlfriends

is calling, you wouldn't say that. That's what's so stinky about that tactic, anyway.

[rucky]

71. This guy named Kurovski keeps calling for my co-ed daughter.

and I don't even have one.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

73. Ack! The campaign will issue a response forthwith!

:rofl: