By saying what she said about impeachment, Nancy helped get you your majorities...

[Harper_is_Bush]

..no doubt in my mind about that.

If she hadn't stated that she saw it as off the table I have no doubt it would have vaulted to the top as one of the election issues.

Whatever happens, she deserves your thanks.

IF there's enough pressure from her fellow elected Dems and Dem leadership then she can formulate a dignified climb down, and I would applaud that.....
...HOWEVER, THE CONDEMNATION OF THIS WOMAN I SEE HERE BASED UPON THIS ONE ITEM IS UNFAIR AND NARROW-MINDED, AT BEST.

[Madspirit]

1. Yeah...ok...Thanks Nancy for not doing what we elected you fools to do

Let's fund the war and NOT impeach. Thanks Nancy. I just wuv you to bits. Now...off to the Cindy thread so I can demonize her. :rofl: Not.
Lee

[Harper_is_Bush]

3. Two things: this topic is about impeachment...

and my name is not Nancy.

[Madspirit]

6. YOU said, in the OP, she...MEANING Nancy, deserved our thanks.

I was just thanking her...for all she's done. Did you not read your own post, telling us to thank Nancy? :rofl:
Lee

[Harper_is_Bush]

14. Your response to me was directed to Nancy, so I only pointed out I'm not Nancy. Also pointed out...

...that the topic was primarily related to all the fuss about impeachment.

If you want to condemn her and all Dems for not getting your troops out of Iraq yet that's fine, of course. Maybe it was my mistake to point out you're off on a tangent. Carry on.

[U4ikLefty]

41. ...but Madspirit did not "condemn her and all Dems for not getting your troops out of Iraq "

Madspirit thanked her for doing nothing in terms of 1)stopping/slowing the occupation (by denying funding), or 2)brining articles of impeachment.

There was no condemnation of anything by Madspirit. Now if you think those things are condemnable then you have to look inward.

Also, there was no condemnation of "all Dems"...how ridiculous!!!

Thank you for playing.

[Harper_is_Bush]

42. "what we elected you fools...."

That is the condemnation of all Dems I referred to.

Surely you didn't think I was speaking of all Dems, including unelected ones?

[ShaneGR]

17. FALSE, JUST COMPLETELY FALSE

She was elected to help end the war. She led a majority to pass a bill to do just that. It was vetoed by President Bush. And just this week she got the same bill passed AGAIN.. with an earlier withdrawel date.

It's people like you that spread these LIES about what she's done that just really get to me.

[Madspirit]

18. Bullshit...they are all turning into a bunch of centrist sissy-assed cowards...

In my humble opinion and all...
Lee

[ShaneGR]

23. I hear insults... and no facts....

Sorry, your argument is based on emotion and not reality.

[Le Taz Hot]

44. Facts?

Here ya go:

1) We are still in the war with no end in sight (please don't insult our intelligence by the "we don't have the vote" meme. It's been bunked ad infinitum).

2) Impeachment is STILL off the table despite the fact that this junta is guilty of innumerable impeachable offenses.

3) There is not even a HINT of discussion about universal health care.

4) There is not even a HINT of discussion about our jobs being shipped overseas while these same corporations get TAX BREAKS.

5) No discussion about campaign finance reform -- wonder why that is? (Hint: See Nancy's donor list.)

There's some reality for ya.

[wtmusic]

2. No doubt in your mind? You have no doubt?

That's wonderful.

Do you have anything to base it on? I didn't hear any Republican demands to rule out impeachment. She offered it up out of the goodness of her heart.

[rwheeler31]

8. This is such a pile,

why don't you demand something from the republicans?

[wtmusic]

11. OK, I demand the Republicans impeach the president

now THAT'S a pile

[Le Taz Hot]

45. Because the Democrats are in power?

(Was this a trick question?)

[Sanctified]

4. ok I will bite.

She helped get us a majority which basically took over and held a stay the course mentality from the previous majority. Where are all the changes I was promised, not just as far as impeachment but ending this fucking war and holding investigations. And if the motherfucking President is cock blocking everything why are we not impeaching him.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

5. She is an incredible woman. That is all. eom

[ret5hd]

7. You? Your? Your thanks? Well, i guess you ain't one of "us", huh?

[Harper_is_Bush]

16. I'm Canadian. You got a problem with that? Should I shut up?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

9. Do you really think that John Q. Public even knows that she was taking Impeachment off the table?

Give me a break.

[wtmusic]

13. Good point. nt

[WilliamPitt]

10. Be careful what you wish for.

You might get it...and be despised by the base for it.

Sad.

[ShaneGR]

21. So Will, what's your thoughts?

She should get bills passed for withdrawing troops, multiple times, or turn the entire congress into a circus less than a year before primetime election season? By circus I mean impeachment proceedings, which will never to turn into a conviction in the Senate. You know that. You're a smart guy. So pass bills that have real meaning the House, or waste an entire cycle on election... on a President who has less than 18 months left in office. The Senate WILL vote for leaving Iraq before the end of this year. With veto override. As far as my counting goes. They already have 63 votes.

[WilliamPitt]

39. ,,,psssst...

...they *are* passing them multiple times, but not fast enough for the impatient-don't-know-dick-about-our-processes base.

I'm happy to disappoint...in ther short term. The Furious will catch up.

[ellisonz]

36. You don't happen to have 60 Senate votes in your back pocket do you?

Just asking.

[WilliamPitt]

38. Nope

Nor do I have 67 votes to defeat a veto.

Guess I'm a DINO.

Selah.

[rodeodance]

12. Impeachment is tool given to the PEOPLE by the Constitution. I do not

think it was right for to remove it from the table. It could be used to hold
over their heads if nothing else!! But, no, I do not think she should
resign. Having said that, I think now, politically, and the longer she
waits to reconsider her stance, the more difficult it will be for her (the
RW will paint her as weak, someone not to be trusted, a lier, etc etc.).

I once read (can not find it now)---that she thinks impeachment should
come from a groundswell of the people-from the bottom up. She talked
of how the public was NOT behind he impeachment of Clinton and what
it did to the nation. She does not want that to happen again (paraphasing).

SO--she needs to HEAR and SEE the 'groundswell"----Keep her staff
busy with phone calls and keep her fax busy and her snail mail box FULL.

[defendandprotect]

20. I agree; impeaching a penis is much easier than impeaching a dictator -- !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Duer 157099]

15. As heard on Bill Moyers' show last night:

Thank god she didn't take free speach off the table, as long as she was removing Constitutional items.

[Le Taz Hot]

46. LOL!

Literally. Excellent! If we could somehow just drive this point home to the apologists. Those are OUR rights she's taking off the table. That was not and is not her option.

[EFerrari]

19. Nancy had no business telling the American people

what they should want.

So, no, it's not unfair. It's simply standing up.

[onenote]

27. and if you can point to her saying that the american people shouldn't want impeachment

I'll pay $100 to DU. But you can't, cause she didn't. She said, during the campaign, that impeachment wasn't what Democrats were looking to pursue if they regained the majority. She said tha for the very reason pointed out by the OP -- to neutralize the issue. She did and the focus of the Democrats campaign wasn't derailed. Not only was it smart, it was easy. Name the Democrats whose campaigns pledged to pursue impeachment. I'll wait.

[EFerrari]

29. You're waiiting on politicians taking risks?

:)

[EST]

30. What you say has some substance, however,

it looks to me like Nancy's unfortunate discourse about taking impeachment off the table has generated so much anger and teeth grinding that it has, if anything, actually had the opposite effect, giving some republicans, who have gone negative on bush, permission to hate a democrat.
Because they find it ok to bash Nancy, they can now tell the truth about bush and create even more of a crowd figuratively shaking their fists and lifting their pitchforks. For this we can be thankful.

I don't know if she planned it this way, but it has been effective.

[EFerrari]

32. I try not to underestimate what a good strategist she is.

:)

[EST]

40. It's difficult to figure it out,

whether it's the attainment of such enormous goals by herself and the rest of us, or could it be that she has a deeper strategy which yielded to tactics.
Either way, comparing the Nancy pre election and the Nancy now reveals a huge shift in her world.
She used to be a terrible TV image, often haggard, uncertain of her own speech, interrupting herself, losing track of what she was saying and having to start over, stuttering and stammering, whereas now, she is mellow, the smile genuine and her delivery smooth and certain, rarely interrupted by vocal jitters.

To get to where she is and in the time she has is a testament to her abilities.

[EFerrari]

47. I agree. And have begun to wonder lately if the fact of the Clinton

candidacy doesn't have something to do with avoiding the "i" word.

Nancy is a leader -- imho, that's why she's much more comfortable now than when she was always responding to a Republican majority. But, the decision to avoid impeachment is a political decision and we don't even know if she made it, i.e., it could have been made by 2008 campaign strategists in the DLC.

Is that possible?

[EST]

48. I see your point-I think.

If the dems who are much more visible and symbolic of the party make too much stink, it will invite comparison with the Clinton impeachment and damage sen. Clinton's campaign and all the hopes and ambitions of those people who are busy constructing their own future around her.

I'm glad I'm not a politician-If you lead and do what you think is right, you get condemned because you don't respond to the wishes of your constituency and if you listen to the constituency and do what you think the majority of them want, you are consigned to barber's hell because you are no leader.

It's no wonder politicians seem a little shell shocked--they are.

[EFerrari]

50. It must be very difficult to respond for a living.

:)

[Individualist]

22. If awards were given for Orwellian posts, you'd be an undisputed winner.

:crazy:

[Harper_is_Bush]

31. Explain yourself, if you are able.

[Swamp Rat]

24. Ok, now that you've made that point clear, can we move on to impeachment?

Thank you, Nancy, for the "majorities."

I'm all for supporting Nancy putting it back on the table Monday morning. How about you?

[Gman]

25. A lot of further damage to our country has been prevented

by Pelosi and Reid. Not to say the war continuing is not further damage, but if we thought the first 6 years were bad, Bush's last 2 lame duck years would have been the worst of all but for Reed and Pelosi.

Yup, they deserve a break.

[mmonk]

26. Yeah, sure.

[onenote]

28. debating point score for this post - minus gazillion

would've been minus gazillion and one if you'd simply said "so's your old man".

[Fovea]

33. I disagree

I think it had either no effect, or actually worked against us.

I think if it had vaulted to the top as an election issue, and the Dems had spine, we would have *crushed* the pugs.

I think every Dem in congress should have a list on their website of the Bush/Cheney crimes against the constitution.

I think she has done us all a disservice. But then I think the Democratic party 'centrists' as a group should pack it up and leave town.

Apparently a sizable percentage of independents are former Dems who do not believe the party still represents the values of FDR and Truman. We could have them back if we really wanted to win more than we wanted corporatist funny money. Another large segment of voters are concerned about the Republican class war. If we showed them we had their backs, we would get their votes in greater numbers than the puggies could buy, cheat, or steal.

That is what I do not doubt-- YMMV.

[sueh]

34. One item?? ONE item??!!

Bush Co have broken so many laws that impeachment of Cheney & Bush would actually put an end to all the illegal and horrible things they've done. Think of impeachment and removal from office as killing 2 birds with one stone.

[sampsonblk]

35. Hogwash

What on earth makes you think that?

[ecstatic]

37. What good is a majority that won't stop Bush?

What good is a cake that you can't eat?

[Harper_is_Bush]

43. And of course, they haven't tried at all.

right?

[EFerrari]

49. That's hilarious.

No, I won't applaud my representative trying to tell me that she won't uphold the Constitution.

lol