I find it funny that anti-abortionists cry the loss of life yet PRAISE the killing of innocent Iraqi

[greenbriar]

in this Rich mans War Poor Mans BLOOD


either they are for the sanctity of life and that means ALL life or they are hypocrites

[dsc]

1. actually Catholics, who are largely anti abortion are also largely anti Iraq War

[mitchtv]

3. Anti Iraq war but pro republican?

I'm puzzled

[dsc]

7. Repubican candidates got 48 percent of the vote in Novemeber

while only 30% of the country favored the war. Clearly there are a substantial number of people who hold that position. It should also be noted that Catholics broke about 52/48 in our favor in 2004.

[terisan]

8. Previous Pope was against Iraq invasion; can't find strong anti-war statement by Benedict

[RB TexLa]

17. Here you go

All I can do is invite you to read the Catechism,’ Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger replied with a mischievous grin, ‘and the conclusion seems obvious to me’ For the guardian of Catholic orthodoxy, the obvious conclusion is that the military intervention that is taking shape ‘has no moral justification'. The Catechism, Ratzinger explained, does not embrace a pacifist position a priori; indeed, it admits the possibility of a ‘just war’ for reasons of defense. But it sets a number of very strict and reasonable conditions: there must be a proper proportion between the evil to be rooted out and the means employed. In short, if in order to defend a value (in this case, national security) greater damage is caused (civilian victims, destabilization of the Middle East, with its accompanying risks of increased terrorism), then recourse to force is no longer justified. In light of these criteria, Ratzinger refuses to grant the moral status of just war to the military operation against Saddam Hussein. The Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith added another consideration: ‘Decisions like this should be made by the community of nations, by the UN, and not by an individual power.’”


http://www.comunione-liberazione.org/articoli/eng/1/nowar.html

[terisan]

25. Has he spoken out against the War as Pope; or told Catholics that the war is murder?

[RB TexLa]

15. There is a group of folks at my parish who very much fit that

One little old lady that helps organize both anti-abortion and anti-death penalty stuff. She's protested the war saying she doesn't try to have children be born to go and die in a war.

[greenbriar]

18. at least she is true to her convictions

no matter what

[Horse with no Name]

2. Well we know they are hypocrites

and Pro-Life is such a misnomer--a perpetual myth.
They are NOT Pro-Life, they are anti-abortion. Pro-Fetus at very best.
But it is a label that we haven't challenged hard enough.

[EFerrari]

4. They're "pro-life" until a baby is actually born, then it's

every life for itself -- and for how it can be exploited.

[hfojvt]

11. they are anti-euthanasia too

like Schiavo. They will insist on keeping you alive, even if you don't wanna be, and don't really have any brain function or hope of recovery.

[Horse with no Name]

12. Yet they support repubican ideals that don't give insurance to those that are salvageable

but support millions being spent on one person without any possibility of recovery.

[JTFrog]

20. They are pro-life yet they

all line up at the fertility clinic and don't balk when hundreds of thousands of embryo's are destroyed in the process. They even turn around and bitch about stem cell research.

[RandomKoolzip]

5. THEY think it's funny when we protest the death penalty but support abortion rights.

Read George Lakoff's "Moral Politics" for some interesting insights into why.

[greenbriar]

9. I am not against the death penalty in some cases. BTK--the Carr brothers

cases like that they should cut the appeals and fry em in the county square


http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/A618_0_2_0_C/



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader


Rader served on both the Sedgwick County's Board of Zoning Appeals and the Animal Control Advisory Board (appointed in 1996 and resigned in 1998). He was also a member of Christ Lutheran Church, a Lutheran congregation of about 200 people. He had been a member for about 30 years and had been elected president of the Congregation Council.


He was a registered member of the Republican Party. <2>.

[gollygee]

13. I'm not against the death penalty because of any "sanctity of life" thing

I'm against it because innocent people get convicted of crimes.

[greenbriar]

14. I agree, but when it is cut and dried...fry the fuckers

Charles Manson...die
Dennis Radar.....die
Carr brothers....die


when there is no doubt..they need to just do it

[rug]

30. Why?

[PDJane]

6. I've been watching someone trying to justify this

On another board. I think this person is in the complete grip of religious fervor......or something. And yes, the justification for the war goes something like, if I understand the gist (I'm by no means sure): The country's leaders called for the war, and obedience to the ruler is A Very Good Thing, so God will forgive the killers of innocents because the men and women doing so will forgive them.

I think.

[Horse with no Name]

10. They seem to forget the little ditty that says

"Thou shalt not kill"...as hard as I look, there isn't any justification for killing in the Bible.

[mema42]

16. probably right

I don't think either are right. The Iraq war is just plain wrong. If war ever has to be fought it should only be a last measure and only because it is the lesser of two evils. I don't want women to be forced to have a child, I do want birth control freely available and abortion should be an option at least in some cases. But abortion freely given in every case is sad to me also.

My daughter was diagnosed infertile, she had always wanted a child. She can't afford the other options. Not long after she found out she could not get pregnant she came home from work very upset. She cried even when she talked about it. One of the woman she works with had talked about taking a day off of work to go get her third abortion. I tried not to join the two but when you see your daughter crying that Mom instinct comes in.

The happy ending is that she DID get pregnant. I guess the tests they do sometimes clear the tubes for long enough to get pregnant. So we just hope it all works out for the best. Its one of those hard things to decide on.

[cgrindley]

19. So should all anti-war people also be anti-abortion?

Your logic doesn't actually make sense.

By the way... I'm not even religious and yet I'm anti-abortion and anti-Iraq war.

Abortion is murder as is war. You don't need a god or gods to argue scientifically for either point. However, the situation is never entirely cut and dried. As far as abortion goes, I would probably refrain from outlawing abortion entirely and support full access in the first trimester, less access in the second (with doctor's approval), and access in the third limited only to those situations where the fetus is handicapped or where carrying the fetus would be a direct threat to the mother's life. War? Is it always bad? No. It is murder, but sometimes necessary. WWII was necessary. Killing Nazis was necessary. The Civil War was necessary, too. Other wars? I dont' think of any that really rise to that sort of standard.

[greenbriar]

21. each case is an individual basis but the repukes all or nothing mentality strikes me as hypocritical

if they view life so valuable, they should not be fighting this immoral illegal war.


Abortion is something that should be private between a woman and those around her on a need to know basis and NOT ONE PERSON ELSE

[cgrindley]

23. Disagree

They probably view a fetus as inherently "innocent"--although the more religious of them should be attacked for that belief as all humans (according to most X'ian theologies) are somehow stained with sin. Whereas they probably view people fighting in wars as not as innocent, or indeed as guilty.

EG fetus is innocent (so no abortion) whereas felon is guilty (therefore capital punishment)

As far as abortion goes. Nope. It's a private matter between a woman and her conscience for the first trimester. After that, more and more people become involved. Finally, when a fetus is viable, it's no longer her call at all. EG Roe v Wade.

[KingFlorez]

22. That's because it's not about life, it's about control

Anti-abortionists aren't worried about life, they just want to control people.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. Some do some don't. You've managed a broad-brush fallacy there.

Some anti-choice folks are all in favor of killing folks once they are out of the womb, and some aren't. Some are hypocrits, and some are actually consistent in their beliefs.

[DemBones DemBones]

28. War on stupidity is one I can support. nt

[jimshoes]

26. Fundies are the kind of people

who believe that 2+2 can equal 3, 4 or 5 depending on who says it. Very wierd people.

[DemBones DemBones]

27. I call bullshit on your assertion.

I am pro-life. That means I am against all killing since killing takes innocent lives as well as guilty ones.

I am opposed to war, capital punishment, euthanasia, and abortion.

You may indeed find some people who oppose abortion and support the war, but it is not the majority position of pro-life people.

DU is full of people who oppose the war, proclaim their grief over all the dead in Iraq, oppose the killing of animals, and grieve over dead pets, yet support the killing of unborn babies at any time during pregnancy and for any reason.

I find that tragic.

[mitchtv]

29. You may indeed find some people who oppose abortion and support the war,

I would say many, many Red state Xians fit that mold, not just some. Majority, who knows?