Cops shoot protester filming them with camera (rubber bullet?)

[Courtesy Flush]

Run time: 00:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0pX9LeE-g8   Posted on YouTube: November 05, 2011 By YouTube Member: antiprocon Views on YouTube: 303   Posted on DU: November 07, 2011 By DU Member: Courtesy Flush Views on DU: 12881

 

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Dragonbreathp9d]

5. NO! We must learn the lessons of peaceful protesting in the past

It is unfortunate- but it is better for the movement for 30 peaceful protesters to die than 1 corrupt fascist cop. It take restraint, and a completely relearning of human emotion, but it is imperative to remain nonviolent. MLK, Ghandi, etc. Even the Nazis were thwarted in Poland by a city who turned out in mass to practice positive, active nonviolence- and was the only, sovereign city during Nazi occupation of Poland. As much as I myself would like to fight back with molotovs at such unwarranted aggression- it would only cripple the movement.

[PatrynXX]

12. don't need weather under ground part 2

other than the actual wunderground :P which actually deals with the weather...

[icymist]

20. Without a strong leadership personality I see OWS being taken over by, really, Anybody!

If you want to claim that you are doing non-violent as Ghandi did, then you need somebody like Ghandi to stand up when those within the movement want violence and claim, like Ghandi did that if the movement gets violent then to count him out! That's not happening so the comparison is moot. OWS is in danger of being usurped by an extreme group, not of their liking.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

21. Not having formal leadership and someone that others look up to for guidance

Are two different things. If you look at what others have done with "Black Bloc", they confronted them in a nonviolent manner. And this is a truly new kind of movement, if everyone agrees on nonviolence, and everyone strives for it, than everyone is the symbol you are looking for

[icymist]

22. Okay, so who are we looking to for guidance here?

Nobody wants to step up to the plate here? I'm sorry, this movement is still in danger of being usurped by some group that does not have the values of OWS at heart. I don't make this necessarily a 'black bloc' thing, but ANY group that can pretend it's way into leadership.

[provis99]

23. what nonsense. The Nazis killed 6 million Poles.

they absolutely crushed all opposition to their regime in Poland. Take some time to read up on the Dirlewanger and Kaminski brigades, to find out how the Nazis dealt with Polish protesters.

You post is the most foolish one I've read all year.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

48. I know all of what you stated

And I will admit it has been years since I took the positive nonviolence class in which I learned of this so I may have my facts mixed up- but this stood out in my mind. Consulting texts, will be back with quote fully cited when I find it

[Dawson Leery]

2. God Damn Police! Quote that!

The God Damn Police had NO problem with the teaklan waving guns around in public, yet they have a problem with photographers.

The teaklan supports the 1%, which is why the God Damn police did nothing to them. OWS is opposed to the oligarchy of the 1%, which is why they are being attacked by the coppers. As stated before, the uniform serves to protect the powerful.

[PatrynXX]

13. they musta been friends with Osama

:(

hello 18 hours on the jail floor. oh we don't do torture. but on americans we do now.

fuck you can see that come straight for him...

can't hug in grade school but cops can shoot people ..

[robinlynne]

3. This made me remember the Chilean filmmaker who filmed his own death

during the roundup right after the coup, although this is nowhere near that reality.

[formercia]

4. Two wrongs don't make a right.

The Police did themselves a great disservice in shooting the photographer without provocation.

[davidwparker]

16. +1

[Dennis Donovan]

61. Two wrongs? What was the second wrong?

:shrug:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. And people wonder why I wear armor at the encampments

Its high quality motorcycle armor built into the jacket and pants, its not full coverage, but its better than nothing. I also keep my helmet with me and not on the bike.

[EnviroBat]

31. That's what I've been telling people for months!

You have every god damn right to wear protective gear, including a HELMET and a FACE SHIELD! Motocross gear is extremely protective and light weight. You can take a pretty good hit and not suffer too much discomfort. Police love to hit people in the head, shins, ribs and arms. MX gear covers these areas pretty well. These fascists are declaring war against us, and feel-good guitar songs are not going to get the point across.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

33. I was a bit concerned about being taken for Black Block

but my gear is not black and its not leather. No need for it so far, lets hope it stays that way

[Tx4obama]

7. K&R n/t

[ooglymoogly]

8. Peaceful protesters...meet your enemy...The 1% and their

fascist forces, trained to protect them and only them, while we pick up the tab for their brutalizing us.

Its just the way pigs and bullies work. To win there must be no violence on our side and they (the 1%) know it....that is why they try so hard to provoke us. Gandhi and MLK's methods are paramount to success.

If someone acts violently, they are not one of us. MM.

[ooglymoogly]

9. Sorry meant for OP.

[Balderdash]

41. Right on! nt

[ooglymoogly]

10. Does anyone know if this kid was hurt. kr nt

[Fire Walk With Me]

68. Keith O interviews him here, with a big ugly picture of his injury.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x632879

[MADem]

11. I advocate wearing cameras covertly.

Avoid the risk of drawing attention to oneself. They make good quality cameras that are hidden in hats, in ties, in brooches, as fake buttons--all sorts of neat applications. The police are less likely to target people who aren't seen as targeting them. https://www.dynaspy.com/hidden-cameras/wearable-cameras

[The Wielding Truth]

60. Did he pass the camera off ? Someone should have been there to take it

and keep recording.

[RoccoR5955]

14. These damn cops are getting out of hand.

They are going to force violence to be used against them. They keep escalating the violence, and it keeps making them look bad, but they never have to pay for their crimes. People are going to get tired of this crap and start shooting back before long. Wait and see.

[valerief]

15. As long as men with guns protect the 1%, there'll be no justice. nt

[gtar100]

17. That was completely unprovoked. In a normal world, the cop would be arrested.

Seriously, was anything done about the cop who pulled the trigger? Was he ordered to do it?

This is just plain lawlessness on the part of the police.

[micraphone]

18. Let me understand this..

Forgive me, I do not live in the US and have never been there (and sure don't intend to any time soon).

So, no screaming protesters, no undercurrent of violence (from the protesters), no threats, no warnings from the police (none needed, at least to start with), no instructions to "Go away" or "Stop filming"...

It's very quiet and dark and you can't make out the cops faces, badge numbers or anyth-

*BANG*

Ahhh, now I get it...

[Hissyspit]

19. I was watching the live stream that night.

Spencer (@OakFoSho) was doing the camera for the live stream and was real close by. He heard the shot and came running over and filmed this guy. The guy who was shot was surrounded by people who were holding him and he was screaming in pain. It is much more clear to me what happened.

He needs to sue their asses.

[CoffeeCat]

37. I say start suing the police...

...because I don't understand the grounds on which these police shot him.

You can't just shoot someone, can you?

What justifications are these thug cops using to justifying shooting someone who is doing
nothing wrong?

I hardly doubt that a jury would side with these sick bastards. Seriously.

The ACLU or some other local organization, should help these citizens sue in civil court. They
would most likely win. The videotape speaks for itself. This man was doing nothing wrong.

I would argue that the police are violating our Constitutional rights to peacefully assemble.

This makes me so mad.

And I'm glad everyone gets to see what being shot by a rubber bullet does. This is not some
little plastic thing being gently thrown into the air. That thing blasted from the gun, like
a real bullet. Very violent--and they damn well know it. Those things should be illegal.

[go west young man]

45. Could be worse. Could be Bahrain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqOEyjfBzIQ&feature=related

We are pretty similar if you compare this video with the OP's.

Here's a video of what the damage is from rubber bullets. Please excuse the bad music and idiots in the video. It's the only one I could dig up that showed the wound created.
Graphic warning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP2uNILlUkw

[Aaria]

46. AS the Cities see what the cops are costing them in court, they will temper their activities..

[kag]

49. I hope you're right, Aaria.

But for it to cost the cities, people MUST sue.

It is astonishing that this video isn't causing outrage anywhere but DU and maybe some other "preaching to the choir" websites. As others in this thread have said, they can't JUST SHOOT PEOPLE. Not even with rubber bullets. And if you think rubber bullets are consistently non-lethal, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Whoever fired that shot needs to be in prison, not parading around dressed as a "peace" officer firing his weapon at innocent people.

:mad: :wtf:

[rhett o rick]

55. I think you are missing something very important here. The people that will be affected by the cost

are not the people making the decisions. The mayors and the police chiefs dont care what the cost is.

[Aaria]

57. It will get someones attention.

[rhett o rick]

59. Like who? It hasnt happened so far and I doubt it will. There is no expense too great when you are

fighting against freedom.

[RC]

66. What will happen is if the costs get too high, they will appeal to the federal government for help.

Then they will have more money and equipment and maybe even more trained, armored bodies.
The want things to escalate, to have an excuse to crush the demonstrators.

[osteenq]

24. It's going to get worse...

...before it gets better.

Provided that the movement doesn't eventually fizzle out on its own, that is.

I'm not a great font of historical knowledge (so forgive me if I'm wrong), but I don't remember a lot of peaceful protests that actually accomplished much of anything (on the grand scale) before the antagonists in the scenario went too far and actually killed some of the protestors.

[chervilant]

27. hmm...

Do I detect a whiff of Eau de Troll?

You ARE wrong. You can find ample historical evidence of non-violent social movements resulting in significant change.

And, don't expect Occupy to 'fizzle out' AT ALL, since we've only begun to see the devastation and havoc wreaked by the global economic disaster threatening our entire species, to whit:

Consider Brooksley Born, the 'uppity female' who challenged the primacy of Uncle Miltie and his minions. They berated, then 'negated' her, largely because she knew whereof she spoke.

Here's what should be of concern to everyone watching with bated breath as the global economy teeters on the brink of catastrophic reordering:

{Born} once again warned about the danger of Dark Markets, now grown to $680 trillion of notional value, according to the Bank for International Settlements -- "more than 10 times the amount of the gross national product of all the countries in the world."

(emphasis mine)

Does anyone out there TRULY believe that our global economy has the combined resources to cover this ginormous financial Black Hole?! Even the most math-challenged average human being can see that these 'derivatives' are literally worthless...

Furthermore, recall that when Gandhi's followers were met with relentless, shocking violence from the British, they (like Occupy) refused to retaliate in kind. The photo-journalists who documented the non-violent protesters being beaten bloody by the British soldiers drew back the curtain and helped expose the British as the thugs they were. India won her independence with non-violence and Satyagraha.

I don't recall ever intimating that ours will be a bloodless coup. On the contrary, I and many like me fully anticipate madness and mayhem--and death--at the hands of angry cops.

However, I've consistently expressed the fervent hope that we will advocate for change using non-violence and Satyagraha (and, look at our brave Occupy protesters across the nation), that we will work together for the greater good (something the corporatists have tried to subvert by succoring racism, ageism, and all manner of other isms), and that we will use our astonishing intellects to create a heretofore unimagined economic paradigm (need I observe that the uber wealthy hedonists have long under-estimated the brain power of the Hoi Polloi?).

I am more hopeful than I have been since St. Ronnie ran our ship of state onto the razor-sharp rocks of corporate hedonism.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.

Margaret Mead, (1901 - 1978)

[cui bono]

40. I believe the poster you were responding to was calling the cops the antagonists.

That a peaceful movement gained momentum from the cops' violence, not that the movement had to become violent.

[chervilant]

53. Thanks for your input.

I didn't interpret her post that way, though.

My main concerns are: 1) her supposition that, historically, non-violent protests have resulted in protesters' deaths before they effect significant social change; and 2) her rather negative statement "Provided that the movement doesn't eventually fizzle out on its own, that is."

I certainly do hope that DUer intended to emphasize that the cops' violent responses will only serve to encourage the Occupy movement.

[cui bono]

67. Ah, okay. I completely agree. n/t

[osteenq]

50. "You ARE wrong."

"You ARE wrong. You can find ample historical evidence of non-violent social movements resulting in significant change."

I didn't say that there hadn't been any, so kindly spare me the attitude.

I said I couldn't recall any that had achieved results on a grand scale WITHOUT SOME OF THE PEOPLE PROTESTING DYING AT THE HANDS OF THOSE OPPOSING THEM.

Please work on your reading comprehension.

[chervilant]

52. And you on yours...

I don't recall ever intimating that ours will be a bloodless coup. On the contrary, I and many like me fully anticipate madness and mayhem--and death--at the hands of angry cops.

(Just FYI, I suspect I get a whiff of trollness whenever I see a post that denigrates the Occupy movement or suggests that it will be short lived.)

[osteenq]

51. I'm sorry...how am I a troll?

"You ARE wrong. You can find ample historical evidence of non-violent social movements resulting in significant change."

I didn't say that there hadn't been any, so kindly spare me the attitude.

I said I couldn't recall any that had achieved results on a grand scale WITHOUT SOME OF THE PEOPLE PROTESTING DYING AT THE HANDS OF THOSE OPPOSING THEM.

Please work on your reading comprehension.

[chervilant]

54. hmph

I didn't say you are a troll. I wondered if I detected trollness, based on my initial reading of your post.

[stonecutter357]

28. get the money out of politics.

get the money out of politics.

[midnight]

29. I believe the precursor to that would be to allow only elections that have a verifiable receipt per

vote, and not allow private entities to own the software that counts our votes...

[Aaria]

47. First and easiest, get the voting machines out of politics. :-}

[paparush]

25. I'm sure this will be the topic of the day on CNN, right...right?

Yeah..right.

[Whisp]

26. holy shit wtf!!

unbelievable.

jeeze! I'm overwhelmed.

[Madmiddle]

30. Leadership

is within all at OWS. We are all in this together. One person cannot stand for the millions that are out there using there own body as a backstop to a bigger crime, ignorance from the elite, and our public servants. If OWS chooses a leader, the powers that be will castigate the one. We stand as a complete entity for strength.

[crunch60]

35. We have a General Assembly and that is what we need, no

specific leader, no primary target for the goon squad.

[dotymed]

32. This is sickening and will happen many times.

It is the way of the non-violent. They (we) stand for our principles and those principles include sanity and compassion. We are not "hard-wired" to accept brutality without retaliation but it is the only proven path to overcome a military (police)apparatus that has the capability to kill us all.

Besides the hostile and protective response I feel for this person recording this historic event, I was saddened by the graffiti that I saw in the clip. We must get these provocateurs out of our movement and any violent responders off our side. I am human, I have spent a life time in some of the worst (most violent) areas of our country. It was a war-zone when I was in N.O. trying to help, post Katrina. I was a child in the middle of the Birmingham riots, I watched my Father defend us from the protestors. I have protected myself and others many times. This is different. It is a movement that is, by necessity, having to confront the armed protectors of our oppressors. Our only hope is non-violence. We have no other chance to change things. People must see that the protectors of the 1% are using heinous violent measures to maintain the status quo. As long as we d not respond with violence and destruction, we will have the increasing support of the people. With this, the politicians will eventually be forced to renounce the violence of the 1% and hopefully protect us and at least negotiate with us.

[L0oniX]

34. Rubber bullets can be deadly if hit in the eye. This happened in Miami during a WTO protest.

Cops morals if any go out the door when it comes to making money from over time doing crowd control or working for our owners. I will never trust a cop so long as I live.

[liberal from boston]

38. Rubber Bullets can be deadly

Exactly, When Boston Red Sox won the World Series in 2004 a young female college student was hit in the eye with a rubber bullet and died. This tragedy was so sad because she was just a bystander & she was caught in the crossfire when police shot other college students who I believe were climbing fences to get into Fenway Park. The Red Sox set up a College Scholarship Fund in her memory. I have vivid memories of photos of the wounds caused by these rubber bullets & yes, they can kill!!!!

[ooglymoogly]

43. If rubber bullets have killed...it is no longer that "they can kill" as noted by many posters

but that rubber bullets are deadly...rubber bullets are lethal...rubber bullets kill.

Framing is 50% of winning a battle both on the barricades and on the internet.

Rubber bullets are deadly force and must be banned; rather than rubber bullets can kill.

There is too much wiggle room in "can kill".

The headline for police using rubber bullets should read....Police using deadly force against protesters.

[Rozlee]

63. In other countries like Israel and Northern Ireland....

they've caused severe injury and death by shattering the trachea, the C-spine, the face, and internal bleeding from ruptured spleens, livers and broken ribs that then pierced lungs or other internal organs as well. As we saw with Scott Olsen, they can cause brain trauma as well. They have no place among peaceful protestors.

[L0oniX]

36. Expect them to shoot more people if we don't take them to court everytime they do this.

[CoffeeCat]

39. Absolutely...sue the offending cops...

Take them to civil court. The videotape is great evidence, demonstrating
that this protester did nothing wrong.

I can't believe that a cop can do this to a person who is peacefully assembling!

We had the Constitutional right to do this--and the person who was violenting shot
was not violating any law.

How in the hell can this happen? It's disgusting.

To not be outraged about this--is to be asleep.

[cui bono]

42. Holy shit! Completely unprovoked police brutality.

Was that a rubber bullet? Hope KO talks about this tonight, I'm pretty sure he will.

So glad to have a found a way to watch his show. Getting tired of the disproportionate amount of GOP horse race fluff on TRMS and LOD's show.

[Lenomsky]

44. Brilliant MORE PLEASE ..

How good will it get if the Police continue with unprovoked attacks on the public and mini-media.

I'd hate anybody to be killed, maimed or seriously injured but the Police are feeding a fire that may just backfire!

Revolution a tiny step closer!

[rhett o rick]

56. I think it's very important to note that the policeman that fired that bullet was not following any

specific procedure, in my opinion. I doubt if he was ordered to fire. He wasnt in danger. He just took it on himself to harm someone. And that seems to be ok with the mayors and the chiefs of police.

[Flatulo]

58. This is an outrage. Rubber bullets are absolutely lethal. Anything

travelling at 2000 ft/sec is lethal. We lost a lovely young lady here in Boston a few years ago, a mere bystander, at a slightly rowdy Red Sox world series party. Rubber bullet hit her in the eye and blew her brains out.

I hope to hell whoever fired that projectile can be identified and charged with attempted murder, but I'm not hopeful. Cops protect each other to the exclusion of all else.

[Swede Atlanta]

62. Do we have the whole picture?

From what we see this was totally unprovoked. The image quality of the video would make it nearly impossible to identify any individual brutality officer but of course any incident could indict all of them which this incident did. The powerful are getting very nervous that this movement could spread. Unfortunately for us the U.S. has no recent history of general strikes which would shut down the entire country for from a few hours to a few days. That is what is needed - to show the rich and powerful they aren't so rich and powerful, that it takes all of us for this society to function.

[Devil_Fish]

64. I don't understand how they can get away with this. K&R NT

[Hissyspit]

65. Heads up. Scott Campbell, who filmed this, is on Olbermann tonight.