Olbermann Tells Dean on His Cordoba House Stance "I Think You're Gravely Mistaken"

[Hissyspit]

Run time: 15:05 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmr02TZITcE   Posted on YouTube: August 20, 2010 By YouTube Member: firedoglake Views on YouTube: 45   Posted on DU: August 20, 2010 By DU Member: Hissyspit Views on DU: 3015

 
firedoglake

MSNBC Countdown w/ KEITH OLBERMANN - 19 Aug. 2010: Keith interviews guest Gov. Howard Dean on Dean's puzzling Cordoba House 'expansion.' Olbermann puts Howard on the Hot Seat.

OLBERMANN: "What makes you think this would stop here ...that this particular issue is somehow in a vacuum and isolated, because... or even that it stops with the subject of Muslim Americans? Because there's a Time magazine poll out thats says that 34% of people in this country oppose an Islamic center or mosque of some sort within two blocks of their own home, but also 24% would oppose a Mormon center of some sort near their home. What if this were a gay rights center near a school today, or an equal civil rights access facility in Selma in 1963?"

DEAN: "Well, first of all, I think to compare the civil rights movement with this, the location of a building, is not appropriate. But, secondly, look, there are zoning disputes all the time... It seems to me that the formula has to be that the people of good faith and good will who want to work it out ought to sit town and work it out... We're going to have to start healing this country and stopping the polarization..."

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[katandmoon]

1. K&R for Keith. Nice try but Dean proved he can talk in circles with the best of the double talkers.

[pinboy3niner]

2. You just nailed it

Dean talks about 'dialogue' and 'compromise' but with a predetermined outcome--moving the center from Park Place. That's capitulation, not compromise. All his verbiage is nothing but lipstick on a pig.

[madinmaryland]

3. I'm sorry, but as hard as Howard Dean tried, he was the one doing the double talking.

He tried really hard, but just did not seem to fully understand that ALL religions have the right to practice their religion.

Arggh.

I misread your post.

[Nite Owl]

4. Dean didn't do any convincing

and by the time Keith was done I'm not sure he believed himself anymore.
He wasn't getting the principle of the argument. It isn't about one side being right and the other wrong, it's about following the Constitution. You can't say it's ok to have some rights and not others because it is distasteful to a a group of people. It's what we as a country live by. He should be there standing up for this and not for compromise.

[idrahaje]

26. thought Keith did more to Dean than the other way round

I do see where Dean is coming from but Dean doesn't understand that at the moment there are no real moderates in the republican party. You would have to be talking to the blue dogs vs the Democrats.

[lumpy]

34. Come on Howard, admit you put your foot in a great big

cowpie.

[Nite Owl]

49. Yeah, you could see some

rethinking going on on Dean's part.
There are cons who can see the light but they won't say anything because the party leaders don't want them too. They were talking about some of the Bush people who disagree and how they are being so quiet. There is no getting through to the republican party at this stage and that is how it has to be handled. He kept saying how they had legitimate positions but really how far can we go in giving up our Constitution because some disagree, they have to see the light, it isn't a matter of bargaining.

[Vincevega]

5. Newt Dean - Wannabe Compromiser in Chief

And the 65% plus of the people who supports AZ papers please or 65% plus who opposed Civil right bill are not racist and bigots. Something tells me Dean is trying to make another attempt for the Presidency and I have to say hes keeping up just fine with the Newt and Palins of the world. Good fucking job Howard

[The Wielding Truth]

6. Dean is being sensitive to the misguided raw feelings of those fearful of a false foreign

mideastern bogeyman. It seems he wants to present a soft hand to the unthinking hurt and frightened. I understand it,but sometimes we should make sure that the principles of this county are held fast and strong. Freedoms must be protected.

[krkaufman]

7. That's unfortunate.

I thought Dean was one of the people who realized that what we need is a stronger Democratic/progressive/liberal opposition to the lunacy of the Republican/Conservative/Libertarian/Wingnut whack-jobs that have taken the country to the precipice.

[Hulk]

8. I tend to agree with Dr. H. Dean

This is so bizarre. We are talking about blocks away...a plan that existed long before 9/11....not even a mosque. Am I missing something here? Was it the Army of Islam that attacked us that day? I just think we are acting f*cking stupid...once again.

[pinboy3niner]

11. Dean wants it moved

He backtracked somewhat yesterday, telling HuffPo he doesn't care if it stays where it is planned, but in calling for dialogue and compromise, he told Keith today that moving it should be "on the table." It's the only thing he identified that should be on the table, and he'd already said in his WABC-AM Radio interview yesterday, "I think another site would be a better idea."

[rainlillie]

32. ITA!

[Devil_Fish]

9. why are the dems even responding to such a non-issue?

Do the "small Government" people really want the government to infringe on some ones private property rights?

on another note, how meny of the victims of 9/11 were muslim?

this whole thing is just stupid, and it should be ignored as such. don't we have more important things to worry about?

[Tx4obama]

10. At the WTC when rebuilt there will be an underground SHOPPING MALL - at ground zero

So, how the hell can anyone say that it is going to be still respected as 'hallowed ground' ?
There is a strip club a block or so away, and there is a place for betting within a couple of blocks.
Let them build the damn 'community center' and SUPPORT FREEDOM OF RELIGION in the USA!

[Blacksheep214]

12. Agree!

I have had quite enough of this "hallowed ground" bullshit! This is truly sad and embarassing that the victims of 9-11 are being used as pawns and tools to sell a political point, in this case, one of unconstitutional hatred and religious persecution.

This is the America our soldiers suffered for?

Stop this!

IT'S NOT A MOSQUE!!!

[lumpy]

36. You and me both. The whole damn world is 'hallowed ground'

if it is based on how many people have been killed by any kind of an enemy.

[Karenina]

21. Should American Muslims be prohibited from running shops there?

What happens if there are Lebanese tourists ambling about the concourse when one of those with "feelings" is there? Will s/he get a panic button so security can clear them out?

Oh, you guys are CHRISTIAN. Funny you don't look... Never mind then, carry on. One of our sensitive people just set off the Arab Alert (TM). We have a sacred duty to check out all complaints. :rofl:

[Rhiannon12866]

13. K&R for KO!

:thumbsup:

[JDPriestly]

14. What don't people understand about this clear language.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Congress shall make no law . . . prohibiting the free exercise . . . if religion. This Amendment also applies to the states.

The only way the Islamic Center can be blocked or closed is if it causes a nuisance or is closed by the police for criminal activity. New York City could make it difficult for the Center to afford to operate. Please, Howard Dean, this is America. We are all free to exercise our religions. If a church, synagogue, temple or mosque is doing something that is in and of itself illegal or creating a nuisance (very, very loud, loud noises in the middle of the night for example), then ordinances and laws governing such conduct apply, but Dean is suggesting that if 70% of Americans think that Muslims should not be able to exercise their religion freely, then they shouldn't be able to. He is simply wrong. He is backtracking a bit on what he said previously. Someone must have reminded him of the First Amendment. But, frankly, further discussion about the location of this Center is not necessary. The Center can be placed where its leaders want to place it. That's the law. Applies to Christians and Muslims and Jews and Buddhists and everyone else all the same.

[wookie72]

15. Never really liked Dean

His stance on the Death Penalty is vile, especially coming from a doctor. He was pro-Death Penalty even when he was governor of Vermont, a state without it.

[liberation]

17. Right...

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2003/06/15/680/53112

I like Dean, but I have no need for creepy cult of personality and I am fairly aware of his stance on this matter being wrong and deal with it accordingly. However, when you have to make up shit to push a tangential red herring bullshit, you gotta start reconsidering where you stand.

Why do so many people in DU feel a need to walk in lockstep with a specific politician? And why can't people just simply say "I don't like so and so" and leave it at that, rather than just push a disingenuous narrative as if that somehow added more gravitas to their own personal choice?

[wookie72]

18. ???

Your link didn't exactly contradict me. yes, he is aware of wrongful convictions, but he still supports it.

[liberation]

20. technically nothing can contradict a red herring, it being a fallacy.

The link simply exposed your blatantly disingenuous statement.

Cheers.

[wookie72]

22. How was it disingenuous?

http://www.counterpunch.org/frank08122003.html

I was merely saying that this was why I don't trust or admire Dean.

[Jakes Progress]

16. I think it is good that Dean is so wrong on this.

It gives some of us a chance to prove that we aren't blind followers of anyone. I complain quite a bit about Obama's choices and lack of action, but I applauded his statement on this. (The original before the "clarification")

There you have it. On this issue Dean is wrong and Obama is (was) right.

[liberation]

19. Independent thinkers are less predictable and harder to corral...

... which is why they are seen as such a threat by the perennial pro system apologists.

I am in the same boat as you, Obama is correct on this issue and Dean just kept digging deeper on this interview.

What I am just baffled is why people are wasting so much time and effort on this issue. It is clear this was just a silly attempt at luring Obama with a honey pot and then allow the GOP to push their bullshit meme of Obama=muslim. And god damned the media for being so utterly complicit with the republicans on this bullshit.

I weep for this nation, I really do. We went from sending a man to play golf on the moon, to basically devolve our national discourse to a level which would make your average 4th grader weep with embarrassment.

[Jakes Progress]

23. Very true. republican = devolution

[RATM435]

24. spineless

dean is a fucking weasel.

[Frisbee]

25. Seriously?

Based on this one issue you consider Dean a "fucking weasel"?

[totodeinhere]

27. So many here are more than willing to throw Dean or anyone else under the bus

just because of a disagreement over one issue. Too many people here are rigid and uncompromising.

[Frisbee]

28. Not unlike...

the knuckleheads on the right who believe abortion or guns are the ONLY thing that matters. Gotcha. It seems to me if I would only vote for someone I NEVER disagreed with, I'd never vote.

[karmkay]

30. disappointment

Dean knows better than this. His incoherent burbling in response to Olbermann suggests he knows he was wrong, but he's too much of a politician to do the necessary 180. What's worse than being wrong for a politician? Flip-flopping. C'mon Howard. Be an adult: change your mind.

[rainlillie]

33. Hand raised, yes I'm willing to throw Dean and anyone else under the bus,

If they are willingly supporting and promoting fear and intolerance. The folks who would like to build that center didn't attack us on 9-11, why should they be punished for actions of others?

[lumpy]

35. I am with you.

v

[totodeinhere]

48. So after all Dean has done for the Democratic Party, this is his reward.

Without Dean's 50 state strategy, the Republicans would probably still control Congress and the White House. But apparently that's not good enough for you. Reasonable people can disagree over this issue. A lot of good people, not just Dean, want to try to craft some sort of compromise on this issue. And IMO we had better come up with something or the demagogues in the GOP will ride this to big gains in November.

[rainlillie]

50. This issue is bigger than any one politician to me. It's about fear, hate and discrimination..

That's the problem with some Democrats they are always ready to compromise instead of standing their ground.

[RATM435]

46. uncompromising please.

uncompromising please the dem's rollover more than my dog begging for treats.

[digidigido]

29. If this is what Gibbs means by the Professional Left, he may have a point

There is no question that there should be a mosque, there is no question that they have a right to do it.
But why in God's name, should anyone be allowed to put anything there until we've rebuilt the place?
The biggest shame isn't the proposed Mosque. The biggest shame is that the first building to be placed
there would be a Mosque. Almost 10 years after it was bombed it hasn't been rebuilt. That is the crime.

[Hissyspit]

45. It's not the "first building to be placed there."

It's yet another use in a building that already existed in a neighborhood of many buildings with many uses.

[rainlillie]

31. I love Keith, but I think Rachel would have cleaned Dean's clock

.

[florida08]

37. I understand Dr. Dean

being philosophical and sane but that just won't work with these people. Look at how crazy they went over health care reform, immigration, acorn..etc.

Now take a look at this: http://sioaonline.com/?p=452

Republicans now own the one-sided debate. The msm will be all over this. I doubt it will be built after this is blasted all over Fox.
Keith is right. Dr Dean is being reasonable but the fringe has already decided what America should think. I read that 52% of New Yorkers are against it. 70% of Americans have already made up their mind. Honestly I just don't see that changing.

[valerief]

38. Sounds like Dean was given an offer he couldn't refuse. Tow the party line or else! nt

[20score]

39. Even if someone disagrees with Dean on this issue, he is still reasoned and

doesn't deserve any derision. He laid out his case with no bigotry and in a calm manner.

Damn people, give him his due!

[sulphurdunn]

40. This is a golden opportunity to abolish

the Constitution and govern the country by corporate generated opinion polls. I mean, who needs laws when you can run a country on the basis of what people think and you control what they think? :smoke:

[florida08]

42. yes..that is the message

the right wingnuttery will tell you this isn't a democracy it's a republic as if there's a difference. What we're not is a direct democracy..but they want it to be when polls favor them.

[Hissyspit]

47. We don't need to abolish it, just rewrite it so that majority rules

when it comes to the Bill of Rights. Wouldn't THAT :smoke: be cool?

[peace13]

41. Dean had to appear controversial to get some air time.

He fears his obsolescence!

[1American]

43. Dr. Dean and the Islamic Center

There are good arguments on both sides of this issue made by honest and well meaning people. The exceptions: Newt the salamader Gingrich, Shallow Sarah Failin Palin, the Fox Noose comedians including Lamebrainbaugh, Flickin Bick Beck, and Vanity Hannity and a whole bunch of tea party enthusiasts who follow the latest gossip about anything anti-Obama.

[mikelgb]

44. Poor Howard Dean, so beholden to an opinion poll