Sea Shepherd's Ady Gil attacked by Japanese Whaling Vessel

[Devil_Fish]

Run time: 02:32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brw6JN0lQXY   Posted on YouTube: January 06, 2010 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: January 07, 2010 By DU Member: Devil_Fish Views on DU: 5897

 
The Japanese vessel clearly turned to starbord and intentionally ramed the Ady Gil. Second camera view at 1:20 proves it.

(Who ever un-rec'ed this: Thanks for killing our planet's oceans and in turn killing us.)

[Shadowwiggs]

1. Rule # 1: Get out of the way of ocean going vessels.

He parked himself in front of a ship that takes football fields to turn a few degrees. No doubt he will use this video to raise money to replace his tri hull and replace his wages.....

[Devil_Fish]

4. I don't know It seems to turn fairly well at 1:20 NT

[slackmaster]

6. The Japanese captain will argue that he was trying to avoid a collision per rule 15

Mark my words.

[niceypoo]

20. Doesnt matter

This video clearly shows he intentionally turned toward the vessel, intentionally rammed it, then turned back the way it was originally heading.

No rule number anything changes that.

[sailor65]

29. The Captain is protected by rule 18

which supercedes 15 anyway because the whaler is defined as RAM, or Restricted in Ability to Maneuver.

The responsibility lands on the trimaran as a result.

[Devil_Fish]

33. He is only Restricted in ability to Maneuver in shallow water. this is open ocean.

and, he in niether fishing or towing eather. this is a collision between two power boats. the Japanese were over taking and as such must stay clear of the vessel being over taken. for some one who's handle is sailor65 I would hope you would know this.

[sailor65]

41. I do know this. You're mistaken.

You have RAM confused with CBD. To be considered RAM, a vessel does not have to be in shallow water. Fishing and towing are also separate exemptions, although both have their own segments for RAM. This set of rules is considered so important it was addressed several times on both my Coast Guard exam and the Master Yachtsman's exam, both of which I passed. So I guess fortunately for me, the Coast Guard and the Maritime Institute both decided I "Know this."

[Devil_Fish]

45. So what is Restricting his ability to manuver? and he dosn't seem to be restricted when he turns to

Starbord and deliberatly rams the Ady Gil.

[sailor65]

50. The whaler doesn't need anything to "Make" her RAM

she is considered that based on her design. This rule protects large vessels from responsibility when small vessels act irresponsibly.

As to the turn and the collision, the viseo is unclear as to the overall path of the whaler although the wakes suggest she had already been in a turn to starbosrd. What I do see though, at about :50, is the trimaran accelerate straight into her bow wake.

If I had to guess at what really happened, I'd say the skipper of the trimaran (And that term is being over-generous considering the competence of the whole SS crew) was trying to force the whaler to slow or stop, got himself too close, realized he had screwed up, and in his panic didn't properly pilot away.

And if it clarifies things for you, I think whaling is despicable and disgusting, and should not be allowed anywhere. But the SS organization has only hurt the cause of whales because of the way it carries out its activities.

[Devil_Fish]

79. So Basically what your saying is I can buy a BIG BOAT and run down small boats with impunity?

And it is totally legal because, well, I have a BIG BOAT and they had small boats.

So, by that logic I can take my 44' Ketch and run down row boats because, well, they got in my way.

[sailor65]

83. Don't be stupid

but, under the same group of rules, if that little boat powers into your bow track then you will be similarly protected.

But between you and me, I'd be terribly surprised if you're successfully piloting a 44' Ketch rig out there, based on your posts. And if you are, take some good advice. Go get some formal training and credentials. You'll be a better seaman, your insurance will drop, and your posts on DU will make more sense. :-)

[Devil_Fish]

84. so what if I hit the row boat with a Sound wepon, water cannon and then he row's into my bow track

as I am turning to aim at him? Am I still protected?

[Devil_Fish]

48. ok so then what is it that makes the Japanese vessel RAM?

[sailor65]

51. Ok, you're tiring my fingers out.......

look up (The thread)! :-)

On edit, in case you didn't get what I meant, the link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=420087&mesg_id=420188

[slackmaster]

64. True enough - Any inquiry will be stopped dead after the first question...

"What were you doing within 1,000 yards of the Japanese vessel?"

There is no good answer to that one. An honest answer, i.e. "We were intentionally harassing it", would end the inquiry right there.

[Shadowwiggs]

8. Of course you considered the changing direction of the vessel FILMING the "turn" right?

Sure you did.....

So let's see now; a 300 foot ocean going vessel attempting to turn to the left while being filmed by a small vessel rapidly going from the left to the right while filming it. What do you think it would look like?

Fact: the tri hull broke EVERY maritime rule published regarding right of way on the ocean.

[DainBramaged]

10. There are NO rules when battling the whalers, don't you get it????

[Shadowwiggs]

11. I see. So save the (multiplying) whales has no rules. I see.... NT

[DainBramaged]

12. So you approve of the japanese poaching?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

36. Why is it poaching...its international waters

The territorial claims by AUS are not accepted regionally or internationally.

[Devil_Fish]

42. Where are the "reaserch" papers? What are they "Reaserching"? NT

[ProgressiveProfessor]

58. There is a slew of them at the ICR site

Whether they need to kill that many to get the data they have and how relevant that data is to population size etc is legitimately under question.

What many do not realize is that the IWC requires that the meat be used and not just discarded.

[DainBramaged]

49. So whaling is OK with you?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

56. Nice try at redirection

That it is not poaching is clear. The asserted territoriality by AUS is the only legal fig leaf Watson has.

My stand on whaling is that I would like it to stop. Watson and his SSCS is not going to have a positive impact in doing that. Greenpeace, IWC, social pressure and education will. The showboating and endangerment of others is clearly a negative. I hope that Watson gets beached before someone dies, but I believe it will take that kind of incident before his supporters see him for what he is.

[Devil_Fish]

13. Did you even watch the video? the filming is not being done from the Ady Gil.

The Ady Gil was not moving, Thus the Japaneese were over taking. the Maritime rules state that an overtaking vessel has the obligation to stay clear of the vessel being over taken.

Plese look it up, or atleast back up you "Fact" with a link.

[DainBramaged]

15. me thinks he could be expecting a pizza......he thinks bob Barker is a nut

and some other things left for us in other threads. They are so bad at playing nice.....

[Devil_Fish]

17. I was refraining from name calling, but ya, one Pizza coming up. NT

[MercutioATC]

21. Wrong on three counts:

1) The Ady Gil had been harassing the Shonan Maru and then "parked" itself in her path.

2) The Ady Gil was NOT stationary, but slowly moving forward until a moment before impact, when she accelerated rapidly under the bow of the Shonan Maru.

3) The Shonan Maru was not "overtaking". She was under power and the Ady Gil approached from the front and side and then intentionally made herself an obstacle. If you want to quote maritime law, this is a blatant violation.

[Devil_Fish]

35. Even if both were moving the vessel on the port must give way, the Starbord vessel must stand on.

in this situation even if both were moving the Ady Gil was the Stand-on vessel and the Japanese were the Give way vessel. Failing that COLREGS says that both vessels have the responsibility to take any action to avoid a collision and the Japanese clearly turned to starbord and intentionally ramed the Aby Gil.

If your going to quote maritime law, please try to know what your talking about.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

37. That is not universal

anymore that power must always give way to sail. AG was playing chicken and did a stop and squat. Even Watson confirmed that. Game set and nautical board of inquiry to the whalers.

Just dumb....

[Devil_Fish]

39. The Japanese Capitan didn't have to turn to Starbord. The Ady Gil wasn't directly in his path. NT

[ProgressiveProfessor]

47. How much a turn is not clear since relative motion has not been addressed

They were also in 4 ft seas with visibility issues. Its not been determined if the bridge could even see the Ady Gil.

While I despair ever getting a truly complete board of inquiry over this incident, that is what it will take to collate all the data and produce good analyitical models. Without it, most of what all of us are saying is conjecture. Its not rocket science, but will take cooperation that I believe we will never see.

[sailor65]

30. No, the rules are clear

here, the whaler qualifies as what we call "RAM," or Restricted in Ability to Maneuver. Although you're wrong about the overtake because that's not the attitude the two vessels were in, it's moot because the Captain of the trimaran bears responsibilty for avoidance because of "Responsibilities Between Vessels."

Also, the trimaran accelerates rapidly at about :50 without putting her helm over as one would expect, essentially throwing herself into the whaler's bow wake.

This was a sympathy op that could have gotten the trimaran crew killed, but if you watch the SS show and know anything at all about seamanship, you know it's a miracle Watson hasn't gotten his crew killed yet.

[Devil_Fish]

34. There is no Restricted Ability to Maneuver in open Ocean Only in shallows.

[sailor65]

44. No point in my typing it all again

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=420087&mesg_id=420174

[Devil_Fish]

46. ok so then what is it that makes the Japanese vessel RAM?

[sailor65]

52. Ok, now you're just playing!

LOOK UP (THE THREAD)!!

peace


On edit, in case you didn't get what I meant, the link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=420087&mesg_id=420188

[Oerdin]

54. The Bob Barker

The film is being shot from the Bob Barker and the Bob Barker is moving it's camera angle from left to right which makes the Japanese ship appear to turn (from it's perspective) right (which is to the camera's perspective left) when in fact the relative motion is entirely due to the Bob Barker (which has the camera on it) moving right. This is cinematography 101 dealing with camera angles.

I highly doubt these camera angles were an accident too because it is just so damn convenient for the whale whores. They've lied so often and been caught lying so often that they're guilty until proven other wise as far as I'm concerned. Liars are always suspect.

[Oerdin]

53. Yep

The camera's angle changes but that only tells you the relative change between the item being viewed, namely the Japanese ship, and the camera. If the camera moves right then it makes the camera angle change but that does not mean the object viewed, I.E. the ship actually changed directions. In short, a group with a long history of lying, which has repeatedly been caught red handed lying, seems to be lying yet again. Compare it to the other video of the incident which clearly shows the Japanese ship going straight and not altering heading. It was a deliberate camera trick and that means the whale whores set the whole damn thing up as a publicity stunt.

[slackmaster]

67. I think Oredin's analysis of the camera angeles and vessel motions is spot on

It's propaganda, and most people are ignorant enough about navigation to suck it right up.

[rbixby]

71. Agree 100%

These folks give the anti-whaling movement a bad name with their constant publicity stunts and their putting people's lives in danger, whether it be with the collision or trying to fowl the prop/rudder of another vessel on the open sea. I find the japanese whaling to be repugnant, and probably illegal according to the spirit of the law, but if they want to have any credibility they need to respect the other laws which both parties are supposed to comply with.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

73. I agree that the camera angles and motion are critical, I am not willing to call it a setup

at this point. While I think Watson is a dangerous buffoon and a pathological liar and spinner, I don't think this could have been a setup. Timing etc would be just too hard.

Today in a restaurant I heard some people making the claim of an intentional turn. I pointed out relative motion, which is a tricky concept to understand unless you have done advanced movies, moving accident investigations etc. Was able to explain it with the salt/pepper shakers and a bottle of hot sauce.

I am sure there are groups of people trying to build an analytic model based on the released footage. Without the data from the vessels it will have too much uncertainty, but even an early cut would reduce the cries of "intentional ramming".

[DainBramaged]

9. Uh, that ship doesn't need football fields to turn a few degrees,

and Gil doesn't take a 'salary'......... I guess you don't understand animal rights, or how close we are to the marine mammals......

[wial]

26. nonsense

the Maru turned towards the Ady while stunning all aboard with sound and water cannons, tried to hit her cockpit, and nearly succeeded.

Anyway, they're monsters from the get go. Yakuza funded goons posing as scientists to slaughter intelligent beings for money, too patriarchal and proud to back down. I know the type.

To be sure, a far better tactic would be to educate the younger generation of Japanese about the wonderful nature of whales, and some whale researchers are doing just that, and they're very frustrated with the way the Sea Shepherds are putting up the backs of the Japanese who feel collectively offended about this, but I'm not going to pooh pooh the brave Sea Shepherds. They are saving the lives of whales every day, using aggressive but non-violent tactics. The world is lucky it still has people willing to die for beauty instead of oil.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

38. SSCS is non-volent? Pull the other finger.

Until relative motion is factored in, your faith in the video is touching but ill founded

[wial]

63. I put my faith more in common sense

why would they intentionally destroy their best tool for stopping the slaughter?

I'm also referring to the published first person accounts of the victims, who were subjected to water cannons while trying to hold onto their damaged ship after the impact.

if you support the yakuza butchers you don't belong on the left.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slackmaster]

2. The damage to the Ady Gil is minor

It should buff right out.

[FreakinDJ]

3. Some one explain why they are not using a "Steel Hull Vessel"

It just strikes me funny as to why anyone would develop and deploy composite hull vessel for operation in Antarctic oceans where composite becomes "Brittle" in the extreme cold waters.

[slackmaster]

5. At least a big bronze ram on the prow, like the ancient Greeks used

I think a trireme would be perfect for harrassing motorized vessels on the high seas.

[Devil_Fish]

7. Composite it brittle at any temp. also light. for the lbs, composite is 4 times stronger then steel.

just not as flexible.

[slackmaster]

14. A poor choice for a vessel to be used for ramming and being rammed

They should take my advice and go with triremes.

[Devil_Fish]

16. I don't think the Ady Gil was intended to be used as a Raming vessel.

or a ramed vessel for that mater.

I thought it would be used as a spy vessel to simply keep track of the Japanese fleet. It has the speed and agility. the bigest mistake the captain made was to stop moving.

[time_has_come]

24. This is no different than the last time Sea Shephard complained they were rammed...video showed they

lied then also.

[slackmaster]

66. If Sea Shepherd wants to engage in contact watersports on the high seas there is a very green choice

It doesn't even burn fossil fuels.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. The Ady Gil is about as ill suited as it comes to operations in those lattitudes

I had doubts it would survive the season, even with out going hull to hull with a whaler.

[time_has_come]

18. Why did the Ady Gil propel forward at the last moments???????

AND WHY IS SEA SHEPHERD LYING ABOUT THIS DETAIL???

(oh yeah, they always lie)

[niceypoo]

23. Matters not, the ship was 1/2 second away from hitting them

squarely dead center. There was nothing they could do to avoid getting hit.

[AtheistCrusader]

62. That ship has reverse.

Sitting still would have been a close call. Maybe scrape, maybe not. Put it in reverse, no collision. Instead, they throw it into full ahead.

And the captain of the Irwin just lied about it. Watch the video from the deck of the Japanese ship. Watch BEHIND the Gil. If it was in reverse, there would be no plume of prop wash BEHIND the ship. It was in forward gear, probably maximum power. Possibly a mistake on the pilots part, but the ship was NOT in reverse. Not until well after the collision, and the broken 'Gil is abeam of the japanese ship.

[Devil_Fish]

25. Where do you see them going forward. at 1:20 they look fairly stationary the whole time. NT

[time_has_come]

28. The SS boat clearly has a forward motion/prop wake in the seconds before the impact. n/t

[sailor65]

31. Yes it does

and at bout 1:40 we have Watson claiming that they had "Just got the engines started and were backing...." which is a lie as seen on the tape. The trimaran is accelerating hard forward with her helm held true, into the whaler's bow wake.

[sailor65]

32. Watch at about :50.

The trimaran accelerates hard and straight, even as Watson's voice claims (At 1:40) that the trimaran was backing away.

[Oerdin]

59. Exactly.

The Ady Gil's wake shows that it is moving forward, hard forward, deliberately trying to get the boat hit by the 500 ton Japanese ship they know can't change course or stop. It was a set up. A completely set up publicity stunt like the previous half dozen lies from the whale whores.

[FreakinDJ]

19. The "Burning Question" - Who paid for that vessel

[wial]

22. uh, Ady Gil?

that's why his name's on it?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. Just like all the big football stadiums...big money talks and gets its name on things

[snake in the grass]

27. k/r

[Turborama]

55. K&R I'm surprised how many defenders of the whale slaughterers there are here.

They are poaching for a hedonistic luxury meat and I fully support the work the Sea Shepherds are doing to defend one the most intelligent/sentient mammals on this planet.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

57. Much of it is not so much pro whaler but anti Watson

I share those sentiments.

Legally its not poaching. You might want to read up on the IWC treaty, starting with section eight

[DainBramaged]

60. Anything to make the Japanese happy......................

:puke:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

61. I am surprised you would take that postion...

I for one don't give a damn about them

[Turborama]

70. OK, why is there so much hate for Watson here? Is it a personality thing?

It also seems like for some this hate for Watson is a cover for defending the Japanese whale slaughterers' actions.

Re "poaching". Humans make up their own 'laws' mostly to suite themselves, http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/animal-extinction--the-greatest-threat-to-mankind-397939.html">look at how successful human laws have been with regards to looking after our planet's ecosystems and the protection of our fellow species. Ethically and morally it is poaching, anyone who thinks that the Japanese are only doing it for "research" are either, whale meat eaters themselves and/or just lacking common sense.

Whale meat on sale at Tsukiji fish market in Tokyo, Japan

New Scientist: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227136.100-why-japans-whaling-activities-are-not-research.html?haasFormId=4755e0cc-f51b-4173-80d7-021bf157cf4a&haasPage=0">Why Japan's whaling activities are not research

Greepeace: http://archive.greenpeace.org/whales/iceland/Scientific.htm">The Truth behind 'scientific whaling'

[ProgressiveProfessor]

75. I'll speak for myself on this one

Watson and SSCS (they are virtually indistinguishable) are actually slowing any progress to ending whaling. He is a nautical fraud who ignores basic safety rules in one of the dangerous parts of the world. He also lies through his teeth. The man has no honor. Its all Watson all the time.

His TV show makes for great ratings and some sympathy, but that has no sway whatsoever in the sphere of international relations. In fact is pisses off enough nations, that even the IWC and Greenpeace have complained he is hurt the process. Ramming and playing chicken in the southern oceans while flying a pirate flag is not going to help things along.

The eating of whale meat is more widespread than many realize. It includes Europe, the US, not just Japan. SSCS is clearly encouraging racism and stereotypes, not a good thing in the long run. His ends justify the means approach is not ethical in many way.

There was a great illustration of just how two faced Watson is. During the last season of whale wars, the whalers turned the tables somewhat on Watson. They used his tactics and at one point used his own prop fouler against him. He melted down. It was unthinkable that he would be subject to the same tactics he used. The video was just priceless.

There is a process, and it will not be instantaneous. Whaling nations can leave the IWC at any time and then there would be NO RESTRICTIONS on them whaling where they choose. The IWC process is effective in limiting quantity and species. It will be the vehicle that over time will end whaling, unless egocentric idiots like Watson screw it up.

I actually agree in the most part that scientific whaling is a fraud. While the ICR does put out reams of data and a number of papers, that they need to take so many whales is highly questionable. Those kinds of questions are one of the tools to reduce and later eliminate whaling. If you were not aware of it, the IWC requires that any usable meat from the whales be used. Its a long term disincentive to whaling if you think about it.

[Larkspur]

80. I think you are jealous of Captain Watson and Sea Shepherd

Unlike Greepeace, Watson is going something to stop the illegal Japanese whale hunts.

And whale meat is full of toxic substances. The only good coming from the hunt is that the whalers are poisoning their own people.

[Devil_Fish]

81. I am jealous of Capitan Watson. If I didn't have a job and family to support I would join up.

people on this board day they belive in the methods of Green Peace, But I have to say that thouse methods don't seem verry effective.

[slackmaster]

65. Nobody on this forum is defending the practice of whaling

:eyes:

[Turborama]

68. There's a lot of defence of the whale slaughterers on this and other related threads

:thumbsdown:

[slackmaster]

69. That's nonsense - This thread is about a single incident in which two vessels collided at sea

It's interesting to discuss how that happened, who is at fault, etc., and none of those issues have anything to do with whaling or whalers per se.

It's all about improper operation of one or both vessels, nothing more. The opinion of either vessel's master regarding the practice of whaling doesn't make any difference in the question of who is at fault for the collision.

[sailor65]

77. Well said......n/t

[rbixby]

72. Its not a matter of supporting the whalers

Its a matter of putting people's lives at risk as a publicity stunt.

[sailor65]

76. Nonsense

I can't find a single example of support for the whalers here. I certainly have no affection for whaling. Like many others here, though, I also have no sympathy for Watson, a borderline criminally negligent "Captain" who runs roughshod over the safety of his young and inexperienced "Crew," constantly putting them at risk for a cause (And a TV show that makes anti-whalers look like idiots) he claims to champion yet has hurt more than anyone else could have.

Honestly, I think he wants one or some of his crew to die out there because his public support is waning due to his antics. There is no other reason he would have ordered that trimaran so close to the whaler's line.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

78. "borderline criminally negligent" you are too kind to Watson

Southern oceans are a dangerous place and he only makes it worse.

[sailor65]

82. I think you got me there

I should have dropped the "Borderline" part........