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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-29-08 09:27 PM
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Dr. Albert Bartlett: Arithmetic, Population and Energy
Edited on Sun Jun-29-08 09:29 PM by JohnyCanuck
 
Run time: 09:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY
 
Posted on YouTube: June 17, 2007
By YouTube Member:
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Posted on DU: June 30, 2008
By DU Member: JohnyCanuck
Views on DU: 642
 
Professor Albert Bartlett, using very basic mathematics, explains how even small rates of continuous exponential growth in consumption of any resource can lead to an extremely large, cumulative consumption of that resource in relatively short periods of time.

Using an example of microbes in a bottle, he shows how the problems inherent in exponential growth do not become readily apparent until it is almost too late to take any corrective action. He also discusses exponential growth in the context of US coal consumption and US and global oil consumption. He uses examples from business publications, magazines and newspapers to show how economists, politicians and business people lack a very basic understanding of the implications of unchecked exponential growth.

This is the first video in a series of 8 videos of approximately 9 min each. Each video has a link to the next part in the series at the bottom of the video (when viewed directly on Youtube).
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-29-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't agree with his views
Edited on Sun Jun-29-08 10:05 PM by Juche
Even if energy grows exponentially, according to people like Kurzweil our technology and science also grow exponentionally. Within the last 30 years we have seen wind power and solar decrease in cost by over 90%. In the 1980s the biggest windmills cost 50 cents a kwh and were 50 KW. The biggest windmills now cost 3-6 cents a kwh and are 5 MW. I don't see why this trend can't continue. Even when energy demand goes up, so does innovation to make the production and consumption of energy more efficient and effective.

The numbers I've seen show a 50-100% increase by 2030, which is closer to a 2-3% annual growth rate in energy consumption.

There is enough potential energy on earth in solar, nuclear fission, geothermal, wind and biomass from algae to power a dozen earths easily. By the time we reach the point where we need 10x more energy than we are needing now (the 22nd century I'd assume) we will likely have perfected nuclear fusion. Once we perfect nuclear fusion, which we will within 100 years, the chances are we will not be bothered by energy demands anytime soon.



There are several things I don't agree with

1. The numbers I've seen show a slower growth in energy consumption with consumption only going up 50-100% by 2030 when they should go up 400% if they are growing at a 7% annual rate.



http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/highlights.html

"World marketed energy consumption is projected to increase by 57 percent
from 2004 to 2030. Total energy demand in the non-OECD countries increases
by 95 percent, compared with an increase of 24 percent in the OECD countries"

That is only about a 3% annual growth rate in the developing world and a 1% growth in OECD countries. Also when you figure that the developing world will not be developing forever, they will be wealthy eventually, the long term growth rates will slow down.



2. Even as energy demands grow, so does efficiency in consumption as well as production because technological growth also follows an exponential curve. In 2030 we may need 50% more energy, but air conditioners will use 5% as much electricity and windmills or solar will probably produce electricity for 0.1 cents a kwh. There will be more cars in 2030, but many of them will get 80 mpg. So the curve isn't a flat 7% annual growth as demand lowers due to higher efficiency.

3. Once we start understanding novel energy sources such as fusion or whatever other sources we may come up with in the future, energy predictions become hard to make.

4. Population growth is set to stabalize at about 10 billion in the 2030s. Once a nation obtains halfway decent healthcare the total fertility rate (number of kids an average woman has) drops to less than 3.0, with 2.1 being the reproduction rate needed. So as the world gets wealthier the population drops. So either the world population will stabalize at 10 billion, or if we discover the medicine behind dramatically expanded lifespans (500+ years) the population will grow in a linear fashion of an extra 3 billion every 25 years or so. Human population will not grow exponentially or dramatically they way it did in the 20th century.

This sounds like a Malthusian argument based on 18th century technology and civilization combined with a higher than average growth rate. Malthus had no idea that the world could fee 6.6 billion people because it couldn't with 18th century technology and agricultural science.

Personally I am not worried about energy in the form of grid energy (oil is different) because there is enough potential in wind, biomass, solar, geothermal and nuclear to get us by for a long time.

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-29-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The world could feed 6.6 billion people thanks to a onetime gift of oil and natural gas.
Our current system of industrial agriculture is based on the principle of using land to turn oil into food. Oil and natural gas (used as the feedstock for fertilizers) are both becoming very expensive and increasingly scarce, and it is unlikely an adequate replacement will be found in time to allow us to continue the hydrocarbon based, factory farming that has been feeding us and much of the rest of the world for the last 60 years.


Eating Fossil Fuels
by Dale Allen Pfeiffer

SNIP

The Green Revolution

In the 1950s and 1960s, agriculture underwent a drastic transformation commonly referred to as the Green Revolution. The Green Revolution resulted in the industrialization of agriculture. Part of the advance resulted from new hybrid food plants, leading to more productive food crops. Between 1950 and 1984, as the Green Revolution transformed agriculture around the globe, world grain production increased by 250%.4 That is a tremendous increase in the amount of food energy available for human consumption. This additional energy did not come from an increase in incipient sunlight, nor did it result from introducing agriculture to new vistas of land. The energy for the Green Revolution was provided by fossil fuels in the form of fertilizers (natural gas), pesticides (oil), and hydrocarbon fueled irrigation.

The Green Revolution increased the energy flow to agriculture by an average of 50 times the energy input of traditional agriculture.5 In the most extreme cases, energy consumption by agriculture has increased 100 fold or more.6

In the United States, 400 gallons of oil equivalents are expended annually to feed each American (as of data provided in 1994).7 Agricultural energy consumption is broken down as follows:

· 31% for the manufacture of inorganic fertilizer

· 19% for the operation of field machinery

· 16% for transportation

· 13% for irrigation

· 08% for raising livestock (not including livestock feed)

· 05% for crop drying

· 05% for pesticide production

· 08% miscellaneous8

Energy costs for packaging, refrigeration, transportation to retail outlets, and household cooking are not considered in these figures.

To give the reader an idea of the energy intensiveness of modern agriculture, production of one kilogram of nitrogen for fertilizer requires the energy equivalent of from 1.4 to 1.8 liters of diesel fuel. This is not considering the natural gas feedstock.9 According to The Fertilizer Institute (http://www.tfi.org), in the year from June 30 2001 until June 30 2002 the United States used 12,009,300 short tons of nitrogen fertilizer.10 Using the low figure of 1.4 liters diesel equivalent per kilogram of nitrogen, this equates to the energy content of 15.3 billion liters of diesel fuel, or 96.2 million barrels.

Of course, this is only a rough comparison to aid comprehension of the energy requirements for modern agriculture.

In a very real sense, we are literally eating fossil fuels. However, due to the laws of thermodynamics, there is not a direct correspondence between energy inflow and outflow in agriculture. Along the way, there is a marked energy loss. Between 1945 and 1994, energy input to agriculture increased 4-fold while crop yields only increased 3-fold.11 Since then, energy input has continued to increase without a corresponding increase in crop yield. We have reached the point of marginal returns. Yet, due to soil degradation, increased demands of pest management and increasing energy costs for irrigation (all of which is examined below), modern agriculture must continue increasing its energy expenditures simply to maintain current crop yields. The Green Revolution is becoming bankrupt.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html



Mother Earth's Triple Whammy
Why North Korea Was a Global Crisis Canary

By John Feffer

SNIP

In the 1990s, North Korea was the world's canary. The famine that killed as much as 10% of the North Korean population in those years was, it turns out, a harbinger of the crisis that now grips the globe -- though few saw it that way at the time.

That small Northeast Asian land, one of the last putatively communist countries on the planet, faced the same three converging factors as we do now -- escalating energy prices, a reduction in food supplies, and impending environmental catastrophe. At the time, of course, all the knowing analysts and pundits dismissed what was happening in that country as the inevitable breakdown of an archaic economic system presided over by a crackpot dictator.

They were wrong. The collapse of North Korean agriculture in the 1990s was not the result of backwardness. In fact, North Korea boasted one of the most mechanized agricultures in Asia. Despite claims of self-sufficiency, the North Koreans were actually heavily dependent on cheap fuel imports. (Does that already ring a bell?) In their case, the heavily subsidized energy came from Russia and China, and it helped keep North Korea's battalion of tractors operating. It also meant that North Korea was able to go through fertilizer, a petroleum product, at one of the world's highest rates. When the Soviets and Chinese stopped subsidizing those energy imports in the late 1980s and international energy rates became the norm for them, too, the North Koreans had a rude awakening.

Like the globe as a whole, North Korea does not have a great deal of arable land -- it can grow food on only about 14% of its territory. (The comparable global figure for arable land is about 13%.) With heavy applications of fertilizer and pesticides, North Koreans coaxed a lot of food out of a little land. By the 1980s, however, the soil was exhausted, and agricultural production was declining. So spiking energy prices hit an economy already in crisis. Desperate to grow more food, the North Korean government instructed farmers to cut down trees, stripping hillsides to bring more land into cultivation.

SNIP

As with the North Koreans, our dependency on relatively cheap energy to run our industrialized agriculture and our smokestack industries is now mixing lethally with food shortages and the beginnings of climate overload, pushing us all toward the precipice. In the short term, we face a food crisis and an energy crisis. Over the longer term, this is certain to expand into a much larger climate crisis. No magic wand, whether biofuels, genetically modified organisms (GMO), or geoengineering, can make the ogres disappear.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174945/john_feffer_are_we_all_north_koreans_now_



"Once we start understanding novel energy sources such as fusion or whatever other sources we may come up with in the future, energy predictions become hard to make."

Right now fusion energy is still pie in the sky. There's no guarantees that just because we want it to be so we will find a replacement for hydrocarbons that allows us to carry on the lifestyles we have grown to know and love so much. Maybe we will learn to harness fusion and other more or less exotic sources of energy, but maybe we won't. To me, its looking increasingly unlikely that the alternative energy sources proposed to replace hydrocarbons will be available in the quantity needed and in time to prevent severe economic dislocation as oil production peaks and goes into decline. Even if these future, unproved energy sources could pan out, if Peak Oil hits before there is an infrastructure in place to utilize these new energy sources we could very well find ourselves behind the 8 ball so that we simply don't have the resources to put in a new energy infrastructure.


The Paradox of Production
By John Michael Greer

SNIP


It’s crucial to understand that the problem with our society’s reliance on petroleum is not simply that petroleum will become scarce in the future, and will have to be replaced by less concentrated or less abundant fuels. It’s that a huge proportion of industrial society’s capital plant – the collection of tools, artifacts, trained personnel, social structures, information resources, and human geography that provide the productive basis for society – was designed and built to use petroleum-derived fuels, and only petroleum-derived fuels. Converting that capital plant to anything else involves much more than just providing another energy source.

Consider the difficulties that would be involved in building the sort of hydrogen economy so often touted as the solution to our approaching energy crisis. We’ll grant for the moment that the massive amounts of electricity needed to turn seawater into hydrogen gas in sufficient volume to matter turn out to be available somehow, despite the severe challenges facing every option proposed so far. Getting the electricity to make the hydrogen, though, is only the first of a series of tasks with huge price tags in money, energy, raw materials, labor, and time.

Hydrogen, after all, can’t be poured into the gas tank of a gasoline-powered car. For that matter, it can’t be dispensed from today’s gas pumps, or stored in the tanks at today’s filling stations, or shipped there by the pipelines and tanker trucks currently used to get gasoline and diesel fuel to the point of sale. Every motor vehicle on the roads, along with the vast infrastructure built up over a century to fuel them with petroleum products, would have to be replaced in order to use hydrogen as a transport fuel.

The same challenge, in one form or another, faces nearly every other energy source proposed as a replacement for petroleum. It’s not enough to come up with a new source of energy. Unless that new source can be used just like petroleum, the petroleum-powered machines we use today will have to be replaced by machines using the new energy source. Furthermore, unless the new energy source can be distributed through existing channels – whether that amounts to the pipelines and tanker trucks used to transport petroleum fuels today, or some other established infrastructure, such as the electric power grid – a new distribution infrastructure will have to be built. Either task would add massive costs to the price tag for a new energy source; put both of them together – as in the case of hydrogen – and the costs of the new infrastructure could easily dwarf the cost of bringing the new energy source online in the first place.

Factor the impact of declining oil production into this equation and the true scale of the challenge before us becomes a little clearer. Building a hydrogen infrastructure – from power plants and hydrogen generation facilities, through pipelines and distribution systems, to hydrogen filling stations and hundreds of millions of hydrogen-powered cars and trucks – will, among many other things, take a very large amount of oil. Some of the oil will be used directly, by construction equipment, trucks hauling parts to the new plants, and the like; much more will be used indirectly, since nearly every commodity and service for sale in the industrial world today relies on petroleum in one way or another. Until a substantial portion of the hydrogen system is in place, it won’t be possible to use hydrogen to supplement dwindling petroleum production, which is already coming under worldwide strain as demand pushes up against the limits of supply. Instead, the fuel costs of building the hydrogen economy add an additional source of demand, pushing fuel prices higher and making scarce fuel even less available for other uses.

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html



Peak Everything

By Richard Heinberg

Petroleum is not the only important resource quickly depleting. Readers already acquainted with the Peak Oil literature know that regional production peaks for natural gas have already occurred, and that, over the short term, the economic consequences of gas shortages are likely to be even worse for Europeans and North Americans than those for oil. And while coal is often referred to as being an abundant fossil fuel, with reserves capable of supplying the world at current rates of usage for two hundred years into the future, a recent study updating global reserves and production forecasts concludes that global coal production will peak and begin to decline in ten to twenty years.4 Because fossil fuels supply about 85 percent of the world's total energy, peaks in these fuels virtually ensure that the world's energy supply will begin to shrink within a few years regardless of any efforts that are made to develop other energy sources.

Nor does the matter end with natural gas and coal. Once one lifts one's eyes from the narrow path of daily survival activities and starts scanning the horizon, a frightening array of peaks comes into view. In the course of the present century we will see an end to growth and a commencement of decline in all of these parameters:

* Population
* Grain production (total and per capita)
* Uranium production
* Climate stability
* Fresh water availability per capita
* Arable land in agricultural production
* Wild fish harvests
* Yearly extraction of some metals and minerals (including copper, platinum, silver, gold, and zinc)

The point of this book is not systematically to go through these peak-and-decline scenarios one by one, offering evidence and pointing out the consequences - though that is a worthwhile exercise. Some of these peaks are more speculative than others: fish harvests are already in decline, so this one is hardly arguable; however, projecting extraction peaks and declines for some metals requires extrapolating current rising rates of usage many decades into the future.5 The problem of uranium supply beyond mid-century is well attested by studies, but has not received sufficient public attention.6

Nevertheless, the general picture is inescapable; it is one of mutually interacting instances of over-consumption and emerging scarcity.

Our starting point, then, is the realization that we are today living at the end of the period of greatest material abundance in human history - an abundance based on temporary sources of cheap energy that made all else possible. Now that the most important of those sources are entering their inevitable sunset phase, we are at the beginning of a period of overall societal contraction.

This realization is strengthened as we come to understand that it is no happenstance that so many peaks are occurring together. All are causally related by way of the historic reality that, for the past 200 years, cheap, abundant energy from fossil fuels has driven technological invention, increases in total and per-capita resource extraction and consumption (including food production), and population growth. We are enmeshed in a classic self-reinforcing feedback loop:

Fossil fuel extraction

--> more available energy

----> increased extraction of other resources, and production of food and other goods

------> population growth

--------> higher energy demand

----------> more fossil fuel extraction (and so on)

Self-reinforcing feedback loops sometimes occur in nature (population blooms are always evidence of some sort of reinforcing feedback loop), but they rarely continue for long. They usually lead to population crashes and die-offs. The simple fact is that growth in population and consumption cannot continue unabated on a finite planet.

http://globalpublicmedia.com/richard_heinbergs_museletter_peak_everything


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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-29-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Then again,
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/sachs142

. . .

Many free-market ideologues ridicule the idea that natural resource constraints will now cause a significant slowdown in global growth. They say that fears of “running out of resources,” notably food and energy, have been with us for 200 years, and we never succumbed. Indeed, output has continued to rise much faster than population.

This view has some truth. Better technologies have allowed the world economy to continue to grow despite tough resource constraints in the past. But simplistic free-market optimism is misplaced for at least four reasons.

First, history has already shown how resource constraints can hinder global economic growth. After the upward jump in energy prices in 1973, annual global growth fell from roughly 5% between 1960 and 1973 to around 3% between 1973 and 1989.

Second, the world economy is vastly larger than in the past, so that demand for key commodities and energy inputs is also vastly larger.

Third, we have already used up many of the low-cost options that were once available. Low-cost oil is rapidly being depleted. The same is true for ground water. Land is also increasingly scarce.

Finally, our past technological triumphs did not actually conserve natural resources, but instead enabled humanity to mine and use these resources at a lower overall cost, thereby hastening their depletion.

Looking ahead, the world economy will need to introduce alternative technologies that conserve energy, water, and land, or that enable us to use new forms of renewable energy (such as solar and wind power) at much lower cost than today. Many such technologies exist, and even better technologies can be developed. One key problem is that the alternative technologies are often more expensive than the resource-depleting technologies now in use.

. . .
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