This needs to be posted: The Uniformed Code of Military Justice. For those

[peacebaby3]

that cannot understand that people in the military DO NOT have the same rights as civilians nor can they just quit or resign at any point either. When a person "re-ups" they do so for a certain # of years so they owe that to the military and they cannot just quit. They are property of the United States government, in other words, a GI - government issue. I've seen quite a few threads around here from people who obviously don't understand.

Here is a link to the entire UCMJ:

<http://www.military-network.com/main_ucmj/main_ucmj.htm>

Here are some significant excerpts from the punitive articles of the code:

888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

889. ART. 89 DISRESPECT TOWARD SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER

Any person subject to this chapter who behaves with disrespect toward his superior commissioned officer shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

890. ART. 90. ASSAULTING OR WILLFULLY DISOBEYING SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER.

Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) strikes his superior commissioned officer or draws or lifts up any weapon or offers any violence against him while he is in the execution of his officer; or

(2) willfully disobeys a lawful command of his superior commissioned officer; shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, and if the offense is committed at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION

Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

894. ART. 94. MUTINY OR SEDITION

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuses, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny;

(2) with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition;

(3) fails to do his utmost to prevent and suppress a mutiny or sedition being committed in his presence, or fails to take all reasonable means to inform his superior commissioned officer or commanding officer of a mutiny or sedition which he knows or has reason to believe is taking place, is guilty of a failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition.

(b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

And for those that always say that the soldiers should just refuse to go:

885. ART. 85. DESERTION

(a) Any member of the armed forces who--

(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;

(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or

(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another on of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States; is guilty of desertion.

(b) Any commissioned officer of the armed forces who, after tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away therefrom permanently is guilty of desertion.

(c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, IF THE OFFENSE IS COMMITTED DURING TIME OF WAR, BY DEATH or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

886. ART. 86. ABSENCE WITHOUT LEAVE

Any member of the armed forces who, without authority--

(1) fails to go to his appointed place of duty at the time prescribed;

(2) goes from that place; or

(3) absents himself or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty at which he is required to be at the time prescribed; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

887. ART. 87. MISSING MOVEMENT

Any person subject to this chapter who through neglect or design misses the movement of a ship, aircraft, or unit with which he is required in the course of duty to move shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

****************************************************************************************************
I added the caps and bold for emphasis. By all means, please read the entire document from the link above.

[w8liftinglady]

1. excellent post-recommended

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

2. Kicked/recommended. People on BOTH sides of the aisle need to understand

this a lot better.

[BOSSHOG]

3. Some of those who think the Generals should have spoken up before retiring

have a good point. bush deserted and was never held accountable. A precedent was set. But on the other hand bush was just an anal cyst on the butt of TANG, while the Generals had real jobs and real responsibilities. I'm more familiar with the UCMJ than I'd like to be.

[peacebaby3]

11. This is certainly not directed at you BOSSHOG. I know you've served and

know the UCMJ. I also understand the points made and the fact that * got away with desertion, but you and I both know that most wouldn't get away with what * did and particularly if they were speaking out against the war or about the incompetence of those running it, the administration in general, or the CIC.

I've just run across quite a few people (most of DU is wonderful) that just don't understand. They may not have ever read the UCMJ and I thought it was time that they did so they would understand.

[BOSSHOG]

14. I'm onboard with you 100%

and I appreciate you posting. The Generals would have at the very least gotten a call to the front office. And that's a piss poor shame because bush and his enablers just don't listen to the experts, as Clinton did during his tenure.

[PublicWrath]

4. Yes, it's duct tape across the mouth as long as they are in the military.

Nor can they protest with their feet.

[hobbit709]

5. Officers who have fulfilled

their minimum time can resign. Enlisted personnel are screwed in that regard. You don't have to obey an illegal order-I've used that one myself and it was upheld by my CO's superior.

[BOSSHOG]

8. I think the UCMJ does a good job

of protecting the accused. Dumbass Department Heads can't order Soldiers or Sailors into dangerous situations or unduly jeopardize missions.

[peacebaby3]

15. And who decides what is an illegal order?

The people running our government. Do you honestly believe if my husband, a SFC, had said to his superiors - "I am not going with my unit to Iraq because I think this war is illegal" that they would have, "Oh, ok then, you don't have to go."??? Believe me, I tried to talk him into giving it a shot.

Remember the soldiers that refused to drive the trucks through a dangerous area in Iraq because they didn't have the proper armor? It's been a year or so ago. They were getting court-martialed. Where are they now? Nobody gives a crap and they are just forgotten. What about the guys from the 3rd ID that spoke out to the news back in 2003? Some of them were getting court-martialed as well. What happened to them? At least we know they weren't executed because I guess we would have heard about it. Maybe? What about Leonard Clark that used to have a blog and his friend use to post here about it? He was in big trouble as well. We never hear about him either. Everyone expects these people to take all of this risk that would not only affect them, but their families as well. BUT when it comes down to it, nobody is there for them after they sacrifice their careers, their lives and the lives of their families. Where are the people? Sitting on their asses eating Cheeto's watching American Idol because it really doesn't affect them. You'll hear a lot of cheering when the person speaks out, but then the press doesn't report about it anymore and they are forgotten so they and their families suffer and nobody cares.

Actually, once you hit 20 years, you can agree to stay on, but you agree to stay on for so many years. My husband retires in September and they just sent him a letter stating he had been approved to stay on until 2009 and he should contact the DOD (or DFIS, can't remember which initials right now) to re-up. Of course, my husband started laughing because Sept. cannot get here quick enough!

[hobbit709]

21. When you choose to stand up

1. Be prepared to face the consequences-(see my signature line)
2. Make sure you're right-I was
3. We had a CO that was such an ass that even the lifers hated his guts-the IG during their investigation found out that 90% of our people would have fragged him given the chance.

[lebkuchen]

6. Sift through this. See any "contemptuous" words?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/18/45138/421

[gratuitous]

7. The Bush administration says this is a time of war when it suits them

But according to testimony from AG Alberto Gonzales, the authorization for the use of military force passed by Congress was NOT a formal declaration of war. Which is why the Bush administration is able to skirt so many of its treaty obligations, obligations that kick in ONLY during a time of declared war.

So, someone "deserting" the armed forces would not be liable to a death sentence, because the United States is not at war.

We're always told how brave and honest and true-blue our fightin' men and women are, but there are 86-year-olds going to prison for protesting this administration and its reckless, bloodthirsty policies. Luminaries such as Gandhi and King went to jail for their beliefs, yet our brave military folks don't wish to risk being locked up for refusing to participate in these illegal shenanigans? They could. And what a statement that could make, eh?

[peacebaby3]

16. So, why aren't you in jail right now? I'm sure there are quite a few

things you could do for the cause that would get you thrown in jail. Of course, you would have a lot better chance of getting out sooner depending on what you did. Hopefully, you don't have spouse or kids you need to support.

Let me know when YOU are ready to make that sacrifice!

[gratuitous]

20. There are all sorts of sacrifices to be made

Quite a number of folks are withholding their taxes, or that portion of taxes going to the wehrmacht. Other folks put their bodies on the line for outfits like Christian Peacemaker Teams without taking up arms.

I've made different choices in my life, and thanks to those choices, I haven't yet risked going to jail. But I've made any number of other personal sacrifices that have cost me in time, treasure and talent. For folks who volunteered for military service and find themselves in an untenable position, jail may be the sacrifice they have to make. I can't make that decision for anyone else, and I don't let anyone else make that decision for me.

But to say that there's nothing a person can do once they've joined up isn't accurate.

[peacebaby3]

25. At no place did I say "there's nothing a person can do." I have posted

what would happen to a person who did such things and why there would certainly be a severe punishment for those that do. The consequences are very different for those of us that are civilians and people in the armed forces do not have the save freedom of speech. I think you are very arrogant to be posting on a board asking others to sacrifice their freedom when you aren't willing to do the same.

There are many people within the military that have spoken up and been intimidated and harassed. I know some of them.

Again, let me know when you are ready to go to jail (and in some cases face execution) and allow your spouse and children to suffer and this will be a legitimate conversation. Until then, you have no right to judge.

Have a wonderful afternoon.

[gratuitous]

30. No, but you certainly assume many facts not in evidence

I merely said that a person's choices in life can lead to some unpalatable dead ends. Your original post implied that someone in the military didn't have any choice but to shut up and serve, which you apparently recognize now is not the case. The choices I've made haven't put me at risk of going to jail -- I'm sorry that that seems illegitimate to you. I'm certainly familiar with intimidation and harrassment; unpleasant, but not the end of the world. Persons who joined the military and found that they've betrayed their values need to make a choice every day on an ongoing basis. But since the United States is not in a constitutionally-valid state of war, execution is not an option for any dissenter in the military (the point of my first post).

One of the examples I cited earlier, Dr. King, certainly left his wife and children alone when he served his jail sentences. Fortunately for him, he had a support network that helped his family out when he couldn't provide for them. Similarly, I and thousands of others with me, stand ready to lend the same support -- financial, legal, temporal and spiritual -- to someone faced with the choice of jail or further participation in the military of an outlaw administration.

Try to have a better day.

[peacebaby3]

31. What my OP said is what those in the military would face in comparison to

all of the rest of us as civilians if they are found to violate the UCMJ. As I have said before, if you are such a martyr, why are you not currently in jail for storming the White House or some other form of protest? Did you pay your taxes? If you only had them deducted out of your check and didn't have to pay, I hope you resigned in protest when your employer took out the taxes that support this war.

If I were to ask our government and military establishment if we are at war, what do you think their answer would be? That is what would apply to the soldiers serving right now.

Dr. King was never in jail for years at a time so it doesn't even compare. He spent several short periods of time in jail. He did finally die for his cause but as a free man who made a difference because he wasn't jailed. Yes, he did have strong support, but soldiers really don't. They are considered traitors by many and ignored by basically everyone else.

There are some people in jail right now for desertion. What are you doing for them?

I hope you have a better day as well.

[napi21]

9. Thanks for posting the link! I've been adding the against UCMJ

information to every response I've made here on Du when the discussion was about these guys not saying anything while they were active duty, but nobody seemed to pay any attention!

I just wanat to know why the media isn't adding this info when they get some nut case RWer crying about the fact that these guys didn't have the courage to speak while they were still wearing the uniform!

If you don't mind, I'd like to send this info to Tweety, Dobbs, and Leslie. I'm sure they already know it, but I want them to know that WE KNOW too!

[hfojvt]

10. what about this loophole?

"violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;"

It says "lawful" order. Thus, orders which are in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions, to which the US Government is a signatory (thus making it binding law) are "unlawful". The whole trial, I mean, war, is out of order!!

[peacebaby3]

17. Think about who is in control of this country. You really think that is

going to work? Seriously?

[hfojvt]

22. When you are a hero

like, for example, John Brown. You don't do what works - you do what's right, even if it costs you your life. Not that I have the guts for that :scared:

[peacebaby3]

26. True. If you are willing to go to jail and in some cases face execution,

then you can certainly refuse to follow orders or desert, etc. Of course, most people will never even know about it and many will not care and you will be in jail for a couple of decades or dead.

There are some people who have refused orders or deserted. Where are they now? Does anyone here, even on this board, know their names? Probably not without trying to do some quick google search.

At least you are honest enough to admit it probably wouldn't be you that would take such a risk.

I appreciate your post, but I think it is sometimes very hard for us to know what we would do until we have walked in another man/woman's shoes.

[lpbk2713]

12. I doubt that the application of the UCMJ has changed much over the years.

But just as you point out, those who enlist are indeed government property for the specified number of years.


When I was in the Navy (65 - 69) one specification that was used against us fairly often illustrates just how silly, and at the same time dangerous, it was and how much power they had over us. If we were to get a bad sunburn and if it affected our performance they would bring charges against us for "destruction of government property" and we would be punished by whatever means they felt was appropriate. This is no joke.

[peacebaby3]

19. Oh yea, a guy in my husband's unit got an Article 15 while he was in Iraq

because he got a severe sunburn and was very sick. Of course, it didn't matter that they were working 18 hr. days in the dessert at 135+ degrees.

I had to send a huge box of sunblock over because the military didn't provide it. Of course, back then it took 6-8 weeks for the mail to get there.

[pecwae]

33. So true.

My friend, who was also in my unit in early 80's, mowed my lawn for me one Sunday. At PT Monday morning he made the mistake of complaining that the sunburn he got made situps hard to do. By that afternoon he had a deskdrawer Article 15 and extra duty.

[madrchsod]

13. joe found out when he crossed harry

truman stood as much crap as he could but when truman had to wait for joe to show up that was the final straw. you don`t question the orders of a president publicly in a time of war.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Thanks for posting this .......

.... maybe now others will see what some of us have known all along about why these generals had to hold their mouths till they were out of unifrom.

[July]

23. I just read today that half a million soldiers deserted from the mid-60s

to 1974.

[EVDebs]

24. Remember Lt. Col. Steve Butler by any chance ? Monterey Defense

Language School chief who was forcefully retired for speaking freely.

[NJmaverick]

27. Makes those officers that critized Clinton worse

Than President Clinton. Bill lied about his personal life, the Republican hyprocrites that publicly attacked him should have been Court Marshalled!

[michael_1166]

28. Best solution:

Just don't join them in the first place.

[Tom Joad]

29. We need to encourage disobedience at all levels against Bush's illegal war

And join in the risk ourselves.

http://tomjoad.org/iraqpledge.htm

We stand here today influenced and inspired by the bravery and honor of American soldiers who have taken it upon themselves to refuse deployment to Iraq, at grave risk to their liberty and futures. Our soldiers sign on to go into harm’s way if necessary to defend their country, but instead they have been turned into harm’s ministers in a war that has claimed more then 100,000 Iraqi lives and more than 1,500 of their fellow soldiers. The President and Congress have breached a sacred trust with our soldiers and abused their oath to defend the Constitution by leading young Americans to kill and die in a war based on lies.

Thus influenced and thus inspired by a growing number of soldiers who are refusing orders to Iraq, or otherwise speaking out, we choose to knowingly and willingly break the law — 18 USC Section 2387 — that abrogates our right of free speech and dissent, the law which throws a cloak over the immorality of this war and its oppression of our soldiers.

[northofdenali]

32. Recommended and bookmarked.

:kick:

[Phrogman]

34. There I am Baby, article 112a

Piss test set this sailor free.

FTN, never again!