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Know your BFEE: The Stench of Moussaoui Permeates the Octopus

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:29 AM
Original message
Know your BFEE: The Stench of Moussaoui Permeates the Octopus
The joke goes: Doctors bury their mistakes.

The same can be said for the Bush Crime Syndicate. Except, the Bushies use the Intelligence Community to cover up their mistakes and law-breaking.



In this particular example, Bush and his henchmen are blaming self-confessed 20th hijacker Zacarias Moussaoui for failing to inform FBI investigators of the terror plot. Perhaps Bush and Co. hope to pin the blame for what happened on one man and silence him permanently.

Should the Bushies succeed in blaming Moussaoui, they will be letting off the hook the many more who are criminally negligent. That would be unfortunate for America.

The official record revealed last week in Federal Court shows blame for failing to pursue the leads, connect the dots, build the puzzle and generally do the competent leadership thing doesnt fall solely on the terrorist pawn Moussaoui.

Failing to prevent 9-11 falls squarely on many shoulders in the administration of George W Bush. These names are on the record: Michael Rolince, David Frasca, and Michael Maltbie.

My source? Special Agent Harry Samit. Heres what else Samit and some more of the best and the brightest in the government of the United States have to say:



FBI Agent Slams Bosses at Moussaoui Trial

ALEXANDRIA, Va., Mar. 21, 2006

(CBS, AP) The FBI agent who arrested Zacarias Moussaoui in August 2001 testified Monday he spent almost four weeks trying to warn U.S. officials about the radical Islamic student pilot but "criminal negligence" by superiors in Washington thwarted a chance to stop the 9/11 attacks.

FBI agent Harry Samit of Minneapolis originally testified as a government witness, on March 9, but his daylong cross examination by defense attorney Edward MacMahon was the strongest moment so far for the court-appointed lawyers defending Moussaoui. The 37-year-old Frenchman of Moroccan descent is the only person charged in this country in connection with al-Qaida's Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

MacMahon displayed a communication addressed to Samit and FBI headquarters agent Mike Maltbie from a bureau agent in Paris relaying word from French intelligence that Moussaoui was "very dangerous," had been indoctrinated in radical Islamic Fundamentalism at London's Finnsbury Park mosque, was "completely devoted" to a variety of radical fundamentalism that Osama bin Laden espoused, and had been to Afghanistan.

SNIP

But Samit told MacMahon he couldn't persuade FBI headquarters or the Justice Department to take his fears seriously. No one from Washington called Samit to say this intelligence altered the picture the agent had been painting since Aug. 18 in a running battle with Maltbie and Maltbie's boss, David Frasca, chief of the (R)adical (F)undamentalist (U)nit (RFU) at headquarters.

They fought over Samit's desire for a warrant to search Moussaoui's computer and belongings. Maltbie and Frasca said Samit had not established a link between Moussaoui and terrorists.

CONTINUED

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/21/ap/national/mainD8GFLTIGA.shtml







FBI Witness in Moussaoui Trial Faults Superiors

By Richard Serrano
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
4:43 PM PST, March 20, 2006

ALEXANDRIA, Va. The FBI agent who arrested Zacarias Moussaoui weeks before the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks described with great regret today how his superiors in Washington repeatedly blocked his attempts to find out whether Moussaoui was part of a widespread terrorist cell intent on attacking the United States.

Special Agent Harry Samit also said his superiors did not share other critical counterterrorism intelligence with him, such as a memo from the FBI's Phoenix office about suspected terrorists taking flight lessons and a briefing for President Bush citing intelligence that planes might be hijacked.

Samit said his superiors told him right after the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon that it was "just a coincidence" unrelated to the case he was trying to make against Moussaoui.


Testifying during cross-examination by defense lawyers in Moussaoui's death penalty trial, Samit said he now believed his FBI superiors were guilty of "criminal negligence and obstruction" and that they thwarted his efforts in the interest of protecting their own careers. He called their actions a "calculated" management decision "that cost us the opportunity to stop the attacks."

CONTINUED

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-moussa21mar21,0,4983416.story?coll=la-home-headlines





Uh. Whats a terrorist got to do to get investigated around here?




Al-Qaeda trial lands FBI in dock for criminal ineptitude

From Tim Reid in Alexandria, Virginia
The Times (London) March 25, 2006

EXCERPT

Into the witness box stepped Harry Samit, the FBI agent who arrested Moussaoui. He was called by the prosecution but became the star witness of the defence.

He said that he warned his supervisors more than 70 times that Moussaoui was an al-Qaeda operative who might be plotting to hijack an airplane and fly it into a building. He said that he was regularly thwarted by two superiors, David Frasca and Michael Maltbie, from obtaining a warrant to search Moussaouis flat. He accused the men of being criminally negligent.

Mr Maltbie told him that getting a warrant, which could be troublesome, might harm his Maltbies career prospects. Mr Maltbie has since been promoted.

On Tuesday Ed MacMahon, Moussaouis defence laywer, cross-examined Michael Rolince, of the FBI. He was there to defend the bureau, but his answers brought down the house.

Mr Rolince was forced to concede that he had never seen an April 2001 intelligence briefing paper warning that bin Laden was preparing to mount an attack, even though he had signed it. Mr MacMahon then introduced an April 13, 2001, FBI communication, approved by Mr Rolince, giving warning about bin Ladens threat inside the US. Mr Rolince said that he had not approved it.

CONTINUED

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2102266,00.html







Unwelcome Attention From Moussaoui Trial

By NEIL A. LEWIS and DAVID JOHNSTON
NYT March 25, 2006
News Analysis

WASHINGTON, March 24 The sentencing trial of Zacarias Moussaoui was supposed to have been the government's best opportunity to hold someone accountable for the deaths on Sept. 11, 2001.

But after federal prosecutors finished laying out their case this week, even those who strongly supported an aggressive prosecution may wonder whether the trial has shed as much light on Mr. Moussaoui's culpability as it has on the missteps and mistakes by law enforcement agencies.

SNIP

Mr. Samit was followed to the witness stand by Michael Rolince, a retired F.B.I. counterterrorism supervisor who similarly recited a list of actions that the bureau could have taken if Mr. Moussaoui had told them about Qaeda plans to take over planes with knives and fly into buildings.

But when Mr. MacMahon began reading from a document detailing many suspicions about Mr. Moussaoui's intentions, Mr. Rolince interrupted, "Can I ask what document that's coming from?"

Mr. MacMahon obliged, noting that it was an urgent memorandum written by Mr. Samit on Aug. 18, 2001, hoping to attract the attention of headquarters. Mr. Rolince had inadvertently underlined that the agent's suspicions had never risen to his attention.

CONTINUED

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/25/politics/25moussaoui.html?_r=1&oref=slogin





Minnesota FBI then asked 70 times (SEVENTY times!) for a FISA warrant.



FBI Was Warned About Moussaoui

Agent Tells Court Of Repeated Efforts Before 9/11 Attacks


By Jerry Markon and Timothy Dwyer
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, March 21, 2006; A01

An FBI agent who interrogated Zacarias Moussaoui before Sept. 11, 2001, warned his supervisors more than 70 times that Moussaoui was a terrorist and spelled out his suspicions that the al-Qaeda operative was plotting to hijack an airplane, according to federal court testimony yesterday.

Agent Harry Samit told jurors at Moussaoui's death penalty trial that his efforts to secure a warrant to search Moussaoui's belongings were frustrated at every turn by FBI officials he accused of "criminal negligence." Samit said he had sought help from a colleague, writing that he was "so desperate to get into Moussaoui's computer I'll take anything."

SNIP

Samit said he also sent an e-mail to the FBI's bin Laden unit but did not receive a response before Sept. 11, 2001. By late August, the agent had concluded that Maltbie and other FBI officials were no longer interested in investigating Moussaoui. Samit acknowledged that he told the Justice Department's inspector general's office that his supervisors engaged in "criminal negligence" and were trying to "run out the clock" because they wanted to deport Moussaoui rather than prosecute him.

Most portions of the inspector general's report dealing with Moussaoui have never been made public.


CONTINUED

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/20/AR2006032000240.html



Hmm. What could be in that report?



Gee. Maybe someone would bring up how the FBI originally refused to investigate or arrest Moussaoui. When the local FBI office told the Minneapolis flight school instructors not to worry about Moussaoui, they contacted their DEMOCRATIC Congressmen in Washington, Oberstar and Sabo, who had to intervene.



Eagan flight trainer wouldn't let unease about Moussaoui rest

Greg Gordon, Star Tribune
Published December 21, 2001 FLIT21

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- When a Twin Cities flight instructor phoned the FBI last August to alert the agency that a terrorist might be taking lessons to fly a jumbo jet, he did it in a dramatic way:

"Do you realize how serious this is?" the instructor asked an FBI agent. "This man wants training on a 747. A 747 fully loaded with fuel could be used as a weapon!"

SNIP

The still-unidentified flight instructor became wary of Moussaoui immediately, according to Minnesota Rep. Jim Oberstar and others with direct knowledge of the briefings.

SNIP

Besides alerting the FBI about Moussaoui, the school's Phoenix office called the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) early this year about another student Hani Hanjour, who was believed to be the pilot of the plane that flew into the Pentagon on Sept. 11. The school had raised questions about Hanjour's limited ability to speak English, the universal language of aviation.

An FAA representative sat in on a class to observe Hanjour, who was from Saudi Arabia, and discussed with school officials finding an Arabic-speaking person to help him with his English, said Oberstar and others with direct knowledge of the school's briefings.
Oberstar and Minnesota Rep. Martin Sabo, who also was briefed by the school, praised Pan Am for its efforts to safeguard the skies and for passing federal authorities clues to possible terrorist activities before Sept. 11.

CONTINUED

http://www.startribune.com/stories/843/913687.html



If FBI wanted to do its job, they would arrest everyone in the government who had information on the terrorists taking flying lessons and then sat on the Intel.



It would begin atoning for their own negligence.
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Current CNN poll on 911 Cover-up
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/showbiz.tonight/--QUICKVOTE

Do you agree with Charlie Sheen that the U.S. government covered up the real events of the 9/11 attacks?

Yes 84% 38649 votes

No 16% 7314 vote
----

Great gathering of information Octafish, still going over it, be sure to put it in your journal!!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Al-Qaeda trial lands FBI in dock for criminal ineptitude
Here's what The Times of London reported on trial...



Al-Qaeda trial lands FBI in dock for criminal ineptitude

From Tim Reid in Alexandria, Virginia
The Times (London) March 25, 2006

EXCERPT...

Into the witness box stepped Harry Samit, the FBI agent who arrested Moussaoui. He was called by the prosecution but became the star witness of the defence.

He said that he warned his supervisors more than 70 times that Moussaoui was an al-Qaeda operative who might be plotting to hijack an airplane and fly it into a building. He said that he was regularly thwarted by two superiors, David Frasca and Michael Maltbie, from obtaining a warrant to search Moussaouis flat. He accused the men of being criminally negligent.

Mr Maltbie told him that getting a warrant, which could be troublesome, might harm his Maltbies career prospects. Mr Maltbie has since been promoted.

On Tuesday Ed MacMahon, Moussaouis defence laywer, cross-examined Michael Rolince, of the FBI. He was there to defend the bureau, but his answers brought down the house.

Mr Rolince was forced to concede that he had never seen an April 2001 intelligence briefing paper warning that bin Laden was preparing to mount an attack, even though he had signed it. Mr MacMahon then introduced an April 13, 2001, FBI communication, approved by Mr Rolince, giving warning about bin Ladens threat inside the US. Mr Rolince said that he had not approved it.

CONTINUED...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2102266,00.html



Thanks for the kind words, Trevelyan. Thanks also for giving a damn.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. It is now a poll on global warming.
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PegDAC Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
84. Kewl!!
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. that trial is a farce
How can any other country respect us for our pathetic justice system and incompetent FBI.

Thanks Octafish for reporting on this, so this matter gets to see some sunlight.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. FBI Agent Slams Bosses at Moussaoui Trial
The French warned the FBI in Paris that Moussaoui was a terrorist.

That's why Samit was bugging the heck out of Washington HQ.

Why they sat on their hands is anyone's guess.



FBI Agent Slams Bosses at Moussaoui Trial

ALEXANDRIA, Va., Mar. 21, 2006

CBS (AP) The FBI agent who arrested Zacarias Moussaoui in August 2001 testified Monday he spent almost four weeks trying to warn U.S. officials about the radical Islamic student pilot but "criminal negligence" by superiors in Washington thwarted a chance to stop the 9/11 attacks.

FBI agent Harry Samit of Minneapolis originally testified as a government witness, on March 9, but his daylong cross examination by defense attorney Edward MacMahon was the strongest moment so far for the court-appointed lawyers defending Moussaoui. The 37-year-old Frenchman of Moroccan descent is the only person charged in this country in connection with al-Qaida's Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

MacMahon displayed a communication addressed to Samit and FBI headquarters agent Mike Maltbie from a bureau agent in Paris relaying word from French intelligence that Moussaoui was "very dangerous," had been indoctrinated in radical Islamic Fundamentalism at London's Finnsbury Park mosque, was "completely devoted" to a variety of radical fundamentalism that Osama bin Laden espoused, and had been to Afghanistan.

Based on what he already knew, Samit suspected that meant Moussaoui had been to training camps there, although the communication did not say that.

The communication arrived Aug. 30, 2001. The Sept. 11 Commission reported that British intelligence told U.S. officials on Sept 13, 2001, that Moussaoui had attended an al-Qaida training camp in Afghanistan. "Had this information been available in late August 2001, the Moussaoui case would almost certainly have received intense, high-level attention," the commission concluded.

CONTINUED...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/21/terror/main1424701.shtml



Thank you for the kind words, annces8. Much appreciate you give a damn.
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. I know the important stuff happens at these
higher levels that you gather together in your essays. I don't see them reporting on these things in newspapers generally or on TV, except when there is a great tragedy, and then they will focus on it.

If I had the time, I would try to do a Octafish for political lightweights - your essays contain some dense material. (I consider myself a political lightweight, just the way I am built).

And if I had lots of money, I would fund you to do some documentaries.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
94. Moussaoui is their chosen scapegoat --
In the immortal words of Lee Harvey Oswald "I'm just a patsy".

A patsy, a fall guy, someone brought in on one pretext or another for the purpose of taking the heat for the real culprits.

With all the AlQueda that have been picked up over the last four years, none of them were the out-of-country contacts for the hijackers? We know about the Hamburg cell -- how do we know about them if we haven't busted them? If we have busted them, why don't we have statements from them about who was involved in the hijackings, and if Moussaoui was one of them?

It would help considerably if we were to actually look for the truth.

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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #94
109. Moussaoui does deflect attention AWAY FROM Bush Sr. and his
close relationship with the ruling Saudi family.

One never reads any news stories that refer to the fact that Bush Sr. was supposedly in a business meeting with this family when the 911 attack on the WTC took place. Almost as though they were watching the SuperBowl.

So why not throw a French blackman into the mix and blame him for everything? And then say, "Case Closed?"

Just like, how many people remember that Bush Sr was also in Dallas on the day JFK was assassinated but according to reports, he cannot remember exactly where he was? So poor dupe Oswald was thrown into the mix to muddy the water.
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
98. "demonstration of gratitude" at the studios of CNN
New Yorkers to Gather at CNN Studios Wednesday FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - MON 3/26/2006

New York friends of 9/11 truth and justice are calling for an unusual "demonstration of gratitude" at the studios of CNN this Wednesday at Noon (Time-Warner Center, Columbus Circle). Last week the network saw fit to air long segments giving fair coverage to Charlie Sheen's comments about September 11th. :thumbsup: On three nights running, CNN's "Showbiz Tonight" became the first corporate US mass-broadcast news program to actually allow 9/11 skeptics - including Alex Jones and 911Truth.org spokesperson Mike Berger - to speak for themselves in a balanced debate. While one could lament that this took four and a half years, the action Wednesday is a chance to encourage CNN to go further, and to actually start covering the facts that make millions of people doubt the official story. It is also a chance to inform everyone at the Time-Warner Center about the issues. The coming weeks bring unprecedented opportunities for waking people up to the news they may have missed, and breaking open the 9/11 cover-up. We urge all readers in the New York area to attend ... http://3c.911truth.org/



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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is a Massive Cover Up
or they wouldn't have stalled everything to do with "9/11." Their consistent behavior of never firing anyone no matter who agregious the deed in their own White House shows a pattern.

The worst is...I believe that many in Congress know, and keep the Cover Up going. Because it led to WAR....
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. FBI Agent Kenneth Williams sent a detailed memo that HQ ignored
It looks like more than a few people warned headquarters of a plot to hijack airliners.

Why they didn't do anything about it is something I'd like to see them under oath to answer.



FBI Pigeonholed Agents Request Canvassing of Flight Schools For Al Qaeda Was Rejected

By Dan Eggen

Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 22, 2002; Page A01

A Phoenix FBI agent's request for a canvass of U.S. flight schools for al Qaeda terrorists was formally rejected within several weeks of his July 10 memo, after mid-level officials at FBI headquarters determined they did not have the manpower to carry out the task, sources familiar with the memo said yesterday.

The request was forwarded to counterterrorism chiefs at FBI headquarters and the New York field office, but one of the terrorism units in Washington decided by early August that the document's suggestions were largely unworkable in the midst of more immediate cases, sources said.

Officials had previously been unclear about when and how the suggestion was abandoned. But officials now acknowledge that the request was quickly marked "closed," and plans to pursue it were postponed indefinitely.

The abrupt halt underscores the low priority that FBI officials assigned to thefive-page memo from Phoenix agent Kenneth Williams, which was not distributed beyond FBI middle management prior to the Sept. 11 terror attacks and was viewed as largely speculative by those who reviewed it.

The Phoenix memo is now at the center of heated debate on Capitol Hill about whether the government misread warning signs about the intentions of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network.

CONTINUED...

http://foi.missouri.edu/terrorismfoi/fbipigeonholed.html



Thanks for giving a damn, KoKo01. I think you are correct as to the "Why."
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. Bush and cheney were never questioned in public under oath - WHY?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why was Weldon subpoenaed to testify and why is he fighting it
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/02/weldon.supboena/

BUDDY BUDDY
http://www.gsnmagazine.com.nyud.net:8090/images/aug_05/atta.jpg
DO THE MATH

24 MINUTES

THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A MILITARY ORDER
WATCH THIS VIDEO

http://www.bushflash.com/buddy.html


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/24/124834/678


DIA Agents were ordered to put yellow Post-its over Atta's face and the face's of 3 other 9/11 terrorists

"We were directed to take those 3M yellow stickers and place them over the faces of Atta and the other terrorists and pretend they didn't exist," the intelligence officer told GSN."

Intel agents Michael Shaffer and Scott Philpott have confirmed Rep. Weldon's claims that a chart with Atta's face, soon the photos of 3 other members of the 9-11 terror team, were known to DIA team Able Danger by early 2000.

This diary will show that Pete Schoomaker and Philip Zelikow are two of the main Perpetraitors in this scandal, that they deliberately withheld information from the President of the United States that would have prevented 9/11, that they and their neo-con rulers Let It Happen On Purpose.

Of this there can no longer be any doubt.



MUST READ - RE: ABLE DANGER INFO
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4447706

Hopsicker: Able Danger Intel Exposed "Protected" Heroin Trafficking
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x149481


Able Danger: Short Time-line
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4441903

Was Able Danger Shut Down After It Detected Condi-PRC Spy Ring?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4494524



Senate May Hold Hearings on Able Danger, Info Sharing
Thursday, August 25, 2005


Able Danger (search) is the code name for a military-intelligence unit that apparently learned a year before the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks that lead hijacker Mohamed Atta (search) and other terrorists were already in the United States.

One of the central Able Danger claims that military lawyers blocked the sharing of the Atta information from the FBI in the late summer and early fall of 2000 will be a focus of the committee's if a hearing takes place, FOX News has confirmed.

Some analysts involved with Able Danger have recently gone public with their findings, saying they were discouraged from looking further into Atta, and their attempts to share their information with the FBI were thwarted, because Atta was a legal foreign visitor at the time.

"This story needs to be told. The American people need to be told what could have been done to prevent 3,000 people from losing their lives," said Rep. Curt Weldon (search), R-Pa.

Weldon drew attention to Able Danger by speaking about it on the House floor and publicly calling for the Sept. 11 commission to explain why the intelligence information wasn't detailed in its final report.

Some Able Danger analysts, including Army Reserve Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer (search) and Navy Capt. Scott Phillpott (search), claim that in October 2003, they told commission staffers of the presence of Al Qaeda operatives in the United States in 2000.


more
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166800,00.html


Senate May Hold Hearings on Able Danger, Info Sharing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1727804&mesg_id=1727804




Condi in Middle of Able Danger Cover Up"

Weldon is now saying that the Pentagon cover up of able danger will shake the country to its roots."

...

If the claims made by the Able Danger participants and Rep. Weldon are confirmed, former National Security Adviser Rice and other Bush Administration officials will face a barrage of questions. First would likely be an inquiry into why the administration unceremoniously axed the Able Danger project in May of 2001.

During an August 20th interview on C-Spans Washington Journal, Able Danger member Lt. Col. Schaffer posed a question of his own:

"The American public should ask themselves: Why would the leadership of DoD shut down, terminate, a project which was aimed at targeting al-Qaeda offensively? ...

"Why would they shut that down, four months before 9/11? Thats the big question right now, we have to ask that. I dont know the answer to that question because I know my side of the story, I know that when a 2 star general got in my face and said, Im a 2 star general and you are not. You are to stop your support of Able Danger. Thats what I know personally. But the question has to be: Who told him to do that? ...

"And why did the rest of the project, Im talking about Special Operations Command and the Army portion of this, why was that terminated?

"Those are the questions that need to be asked."


more...

http://www.theinternationalpost.com/z30082005.html

Congressman Weldon -- Why now? Why ever?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4500623

Three more assert Pentagon knew of 9/11 ringleader By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Three more people associated with a secret U.S. military intelligence team have asserted that the program identified September 11 ringleader Mohammed Atta as an Al Qaeda suspect inside the United States more than a year before the 2001 attacks, the Pentagon said on Thursday.

The Pentagon said a three-week review had turned up no documents to back up the assertion, but did not rule out that such documents relating to the classified operation had been destroyed.

Navy Capt. Scott Phillpott and Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer last month came forward with statements that a secret intelligence program code-named "Able Danger" had identified Atta, the lead hijacker in the attacks that killed 3,000 people, in early 2000. Pennsylvania Republican Rep. Curt Weldon (news, bio, voting record), vice chairman of the House of Representatives Armed Services Committee, also went public with the allegations.

Pat Downs, a senior policy analyst in the office of the undersecretary of defense for intelligence, told reporters that as part of the review, the Pentagon interviewed 80 people.

Downs said that three more people, as well as Phillpott and Shaffer, recalled the existence of an intelligence chart identifying Atta by name. Four of the five recalled a photo of Atta accompanying the chart, Downs said.

Pentagon officials declined to identify the three by name, but said they were an analyst with the military's Special Operations Command, an analyst with the Land Information Warfare Assessment Center and a contractor who supported the center.

Downs said all five were considered "credible people."

But officials said an exhaustive search of tens of thousands of documents and electronic files related to Able Danger failed to find the chart or other documents corroborating the identification of Atta. Phillpott has said Atta was identified by Able Danger by January or February of 2000.

"We have not discovered that chart," Downs said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050901/pl_nm/security_attacks_pentagon_dc


Three more assert Pentagon knew of 9/11 ringleader
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1744982&mesg_id=1744982

Specter Wants Answers About 'Able Danger'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1796658&mesg_id=1796658


NYT/Reuters: Pentagon Blocks Testimony at Senate Hearing on Terrorist
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1795221&mesg_id=1795221

NOW - ON CAPITOL HILL - Able Danger Inquiry CSPAN3 9:30am et
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4836496

Able Danger ties Condi Rice to Chinese espionage! (really!)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4846388&mesg_id=4846388

VIDEO-the Senate Judicial Committee ABLE DANGER saga
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?

Official: (Curt Weldon) Attack on Cole foreseen (ABLE DANGER)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1915365&mesg_id=1915365

New 9/11 Timeline update, with new Able Danger page
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?

Weldon seeks Defense testimony on al-Qaida
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1931300

Weldon rips 9/11 commission over intelligence failures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1959226

General gave OK for Able Danger (confirms al-Qaida mission prior to 9/11)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1973724
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Phillip Zelikow needs to answer more than a few questions under oath.
Just when things are about to become "understandable," we discover even more, uh, ineptitude.



Weldon 9/11 tale unravels, but wait

Congressman has more allegations, one on bin Laden.


By Chris Mondics and Steve Goldstein
Philadelphia Inquirer Washington Bureau

EXCERPT...

With dramatic rhetorical flourish, he said that a secret military intelligence program called Able Danger fingered Mohamed Atta and two other al-Qaeda hijackers before the 9/11 attacks - and that the government had failed to act.

"Not only did our military identify the Mohamed Atta cell, our military made a recommendation in September of 2000 to bring in the FBI to take out the cell of Mohamed Atta," he said.

SNIP...

Eventually, Weldon brought forward two military officials, Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer and Navy Capt. Scott Phillpott, who had been involved in the Able Danger program, as well as a civilian employee of the program named J.D. Smith. They testified that they had identified Atta and other 9/11 hijackers in 1999 or 2000. Using sophisticated data-mining techniques, they employed powerful software and computers to sift through huge amounts of publicly available information to create a portrait of the al-Qaeda presence in the United States and around the world.

SNIP...

The 9/11 commission said its executive director, Philip Zelikow, and three others had met with Shaffer at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan, where he was on assignment, in October 2003 as part of its probe. Contradicting Shaffer, the 9/11 commission said that during this meeting, he never mentioned that Able Danger had identified Atta and other hijackers before the plot, the commission said.

SNIP...

Said Weldon: "I don't know what the bottom-line answer is for Able Danger. All I want is the truth."

SOURCE:

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/14099912.htm



Thanks, seemslikeadream, for the important information.



Stuff like this should be read and spread before the Bushies shut down the First Amendment, too.



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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Truth is our most powerful weapon.
Thanks Octafish! Great info here.

Peace.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. Apocalyptic president (sic)
You're welcome, fooj! The electronic pen is mightier than the non-atomic sword.



Apocalyptic president

Even some Republicans are now horrified by the influence Bush has given to the evangelical right


Sidney Blumenthal
Thursday March 23, 2006
The Guardian

In his latest PR offensive President Bush came to Cleveland, Ohio, on Monday to answer the paramount question on Iraq that he said was on people's minds: "They wonder what I see that they don't." After mentioning "terror" 54 times and "victory" five, dismissing "civil war" twice and asserting that he is "optimistic", he called on a citizen in the audience, who homed in on the invisible meaning of recent events in the light of two books, American Theocracy, by Kevin Phillips, and the book of Revelation. Phillips, the questioner explained, "makes the point that members of your administration have reached out to prophetic Christians who see the war in Iraq and the rise of terrorism as signs of the apocalypse. Do you believe this? And if not, why not?"

Bush's immediate response, as transcribed by CNN, was: "Hmmm." Then he said: "The answer is I haven't really thought of it that way. Here's how I think of it. First, I've heard of that, by the way." The official White House website transcript drops the strategic comma, and so changes the meaning to: "First I've heard of that, by the way."

SNIP...

In American Theocracy, Phillips describes Bush as the founder of "the first American religious party"; September 11 gave him the pretext for "seizing the fundamentalist moment"; he has manipulated a "critical religious geography" to hype issues such as gay marriage. "New forces were being interwoven. These included the institutional rise of the religious right, the intensifying biblical focus on the Middle East, and the deepening of insistence on church-government collaboration within the GOP electorate." It portended a potential "American Disenlightenment," apparent in Bush's hostility to science.

CONTINUED...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1737214,00.html



Thanks for giving a damn, fooj. Truth will keep America lit, in the best sense of the words.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. Don't let the CIA off the hook. They're the ones who had the UBL files
To avoid stepping on the Agency's domestic surveillance operation, the FBI brass handcuffed and blindfolded their field agents whenever they came in contact with what DoD called "the Brooklyn cell". The Pentagon was also prevailed upon to abandon its own operations that threatened to conflict with the CIA's work. That's why Able Danger was shut down.

Here's what we know from open sources: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0310/S00257.htm

SNIP

A Congressional report later describes (Bush's 08/06/01 PDB) as based on the memo discussed in July by Clarke and other high-level national security decision-makers. The Senate Intelligence Committee summarized that memo, as follows:

"embers of al-Qaeda, including some US citizens, had resided in or traveled to the US for years and that the group apparently maintained a support structure here. The report cited uncorroborated information obtained in 1998 that Osam bin Laden wanted to hijack airplanes to gain the release of US-held extremists; FBI judgments about patterns of activity consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks and the number of bin Laden-related investigations underway; as well as information acquired in May 2001 that indicated a group of bin Laden supporters was planning attacks in the US with explosives." .

Meanwhile, that August, FBI investigators in New York and Minneapolis were trying desperately to gather sufficient evidence to obtain FISA warrants to track down four al-Qaeda members known to be at large in the country and information for a warrant to open the computer files of a fifth suspect, Zacarias Moussaoui, who had been arrested at a Norman Oklahoma flight school. FBI requests that summer to the CIA for information contained in the Agencys files were repeatedly stonewalled.

On August 23 2001, the CIA finally informed the Bureau that two intending terrorists Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar -- had entered the US in January 2000 information it had in its files for some 17 months. As they tried to get evidence for warrants, FBI agents in New York and Minneapolis were particularly in need of what

the CIA knew about these two al-Qaeda members. In refusing to turn over information the previous month, a CIA officer told FBI investigators attached to the FBIs New York National Security office he would not turn over operational information. In a now famous e-mail message, one of the New York Bureau investigators remarked about the seeming meltdown in US counterterrorism, Someone is going to die. Colleen Rowley, a lawyer in the Minneapolis FBI office frustrated after the CIA refused to provide materials supporting warrants to open Moussaouis laptop -- and by the obstruction of FBI headquarters later conjectured that her own investigation was being sabotaged by moles.


For reasons that have not yet been satisfactorily explained, the federal terrorism alert was relaxed after Bush received his briefing. Five weeks later, 19 hijackers armed with box cutters were able to board four commercial airliners, flying them into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and into a crash site in western Pennsylvania.

Three thousand people died in what was possibly, at high levels of the US Government, the most widely anticipated mass murder in American history.


Why did the President and his senior national security officials behave as they did in the face of these warnings? Was US intelligence simply deceived into believing that any al-Qaeda attack would occur abroad, as has been claimed, or was there an unstated reason officials took the enormous risks they did? What were top

Administration officials thinking?


***************

1. THE CIA GOES IT ALONE

"They Had It Covered." - Anonymous Aide to NSC Counterterrorism Chief, Richard Clarke What could have been the line of reasoning behind the terrorism alert stand-down in the weeks before 9/11? The final report of the Congressional Joint Inquiry, released in September 2003, casts some new light on these key questions. http://www.governmentguide.com/govsite.adp?bread=*Main&url= [br />
http://www.governmentguide.com/ams/clickThruRedirect.adp?55076483,16920155,

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/911.html

SNIP
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
41. 6 August 2001 PDB sheds light on the current situation...
...Truly appreciate the info, leveymg. The CIA has pretty much never followed the intent of the law or its original charter in terms of domestic operations and information-sharing with the FBI. This "Firewall" problem gets brought back whenever the National Security State needs to cover up some more dastardly and sordid wet work. Former CIA analyst Larry C. Johnson does a bang-up of job of explaining things:



Decoding The PDB

Larry C. Johnson is a member of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. He served with the CIA from 1985 through 1989 and worked in the State Department's office of Counter Terrorism from 1989 through 1993. He also is a registered Republican who contributed financially to the Bush Campaign in 2000.

Are George W. Bush and Condoleezza Rice really as clueless as they are claiming to be? Bush and Rice are both on the record misstating what was in the 6 August 2001 PDB (Presidential Daily Briefing). They both insist the information was only "historical" and "not actionable." They apparently are not alone in their faux ignorance. Republican partisans and even some members of the media are busy bolstering the spin that this was "an historical memo." Absolute nonsense!

I wrote about 40 PDB's during my four-year tenure at the CIA. This particular PDB article was written in response to a presidential request. I am told that Bush?s request was a reaction to the intelligence warnings he was hearing during the daily CIA morning briefings. Something caught his attention and awakened his curiosity. He reportedly asked the CIA to come back with its assessment of Bin Laden's intentions. The CIA answered the question"Bin Laden was targeting the United States.

The PDB article released Saturday is a classic CIA response to such a request. It lays out the historical and evidentiary antecedents that undergird the analyst's belief about the nature of the threat and provides current intelligence indicators that reinforce the basic conclusion of the piece -- i.e., Bin Laden was determined to attack the United States. It is true that the piece did not contain specific details about the plot that was launched subsequently on 9/11. However, the details that are included in the piece are so alarming that anyone familiar with the nature of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda should have asked, "What are they planning and what can we do to stop it?"

SNIP...

The PDB revealed another very fascinating item -- the analyst who wrote the piece had access to details about FBI investigations. This is something I never had access to when I was writing PDBs. It was forbidden territory. In other words, Bill Clinton has opened some level of cooperation between the FBI and CIA. The FBI, in a break with tradition, was telling the CIA what it was doing in some measure. Unfortunately, with the benefit of hindsight, not enough was shared.

CONTINUED...

http://www.tompaine.com/Archive/scontent/10224.html



Thanks for giving a damn, leveymg! Ever notice how the brighter the light, the faster these BFEE cockroaches run?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #41
61. "The Wall" was entirely one-way.
The CIA knew exactly what the FBI knew about UBL, because it was what the Agency was willing to tell the Bureau.

When Tenet opened CTC in 1995, he made sure that CIA obtained and maintained control over the files. Recall the repeated frustrations that the Bureau had when its agents tried to run down domestic and int'l lead. They often found themselved blocked, because the Agency was already there, and had closed the door behind themselves. This happened in Chicago in the mid-1990s, it happened repeatedly to O'Neil during the Yemen investigation after the Cole bombing, and it happened at several junctures during the runup to 9/11.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. "Just a coincidence"
Yeah. One of my favorite parts of V was Mr. V saying there are no coincidences. I'm rather tired of my government telling me all this is just a big coincidence.

Irony heh? Trying to convict Moussaoui for not warning the government that 9/11 was coming down the pike. Oh yeah. He's the only ONE who knew anything about it. Laughing bloody hard here.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. I'm not aware of any laws that require a person to report a crime about to
happen. Are there such things?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
46. A Short History of ''Conspiracy Theory''
A man's got to wear what a man's got to wear.



A Short History of Conspiracy Theory

About three years after the death of President John F. Kennedy, it became a matter of official CIA policy to denigrate anyone who disagreed with the Warren Commission conclusion of Oswald as the lone gunman. So, the agency ordered its "media assets" to label anyone who disagreed with the Big Lie as a "conspiracy nut." Ever hear Corporate McPravda say anything nice about Jim Garrison or Oliver Stone?

Here's background:



How the CIA Killed History

by Ace R. Hayes
(May/June 1997 issue)
From the Portland Free Press

Editor's note: Three decades ago (4 January 1967), the CIA produced adocument (#1035-960), "Countering Criticism of the Warren Report." This document was partly declassified under an FOIA, September 1976. It is the blueprint for employing "CIA media assets" to smear critics of the Warren Commission. The justification for this perversion of truth, justice and democracy was clearly stated: "Just because of the standing of the Commissioners, efforts to impugn their rectitude and wisdom tend to cast doubt on the whole leadership of American society."

CONTINUED

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/news/ciakillhistory.htm

Read this CIA document 1035-960 here:

http://www.discip.crdp.ac-caen.fr/anglais/documents/america2/CIA%20Document%20_1035-960.htm


Countering Criticism of the Warren Report

http://www.jfklancer.com/CIA.html



The term conspiracy nut soon evolved into conspiracy theorist as code for psychotic, paranoid or kook. Consider how quickly that label, once pinned on a person, prevents any further consideration of the persons rhetoric, writings or discoveries.

So people who wonder why the government doesnt give two figs for finding out who killed President Kennedy, a Liberal Democrat, who worked every day of his time as President to keep the peace, make life better for ALL Americans, and make the world a better place (which is a lot more than most presidents since have done or even tried) are called nuts.

That's what Allen Dulles, J Edgar Hoover, and their stooges and sub-stooges in Congress and the White House worked to do. And to think so many today continue their work, spreading lies. The hell with such people.

Heres a bit of real work by David Talbot. The editor of Slate.com, Talbots a more accomplished journalist, writer, researcher and an all-around better source than Kos ever will be, IMFO.



The Mother of All Cover-Ups

Forty years after the Warren Report, the official verdict on the Kennedy assassination, we now know the country's high and mighty were secretly among its biggest critics


by David Talbot
This article first appeared in the September 15, 2004 issue of Salon.com

EXCERPT

There is one sanctuary where the Warren Report is still stubbornly upheld and where its manifold critics can expect their own rough treatment: in the towers of the media elite. Fresh from assaulting Oliver Stone, not only for his film but his very character (a media shark-attack in which, I must confess, I too once engaged), the national press rushed to embrace Gerald Posner's bold 1993 defense of the Warren Report, "Case Closed," making it a bestseller. ("The most convincing explanation of the assassination," historian Robert Dallek called it in the Boston Globe.) And the 40th anniversary of JFK's murder last November sparked a new cannonade of anti-conspiracy sound and fury, with ABC's Peter Jennings making yet another network news attempt to silence the report's critics. Most of the press lords and pundits in the 1960s who allowed themselves to be convinced that the Warren Report was the correct version of what happened in Dallas -- whether because they genuinely believed it or because they thought it was for the good of the country -- are now dead or retired. But after buying the official version for so long, it seems the elite media institutions have too much invested in the Warren Report to change their minds now, even if they're under new editorial leadership.

One of the great ironies of history is that while the media elite was busily trying to shore up public confidence in the Warren Report, the political elite was privately confiding among themselves that the report was a travesty, a fairy tale for mass consumption. Presidents, White House aides, intelligence officials, senators, congressmen, even foreign leaders -- they all muttered darkly among themselves that Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy, a plot that a number of them suspected had roots in the U.S. government itself. (In truth, some high media dignitaries have also quietly shared their doubts about the official version. In 1993, CBS anchorman Dan Rather, who did much along with his network to enforce the party line on Dallas, confessed to Robert Tannenbaum, the former deputy chief counsel of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, "We really blew it on the Kennedy assassination.")

Thanks to tapes of White House conversations that have been released to the public in recent years, we now know that the man who appointed the Warren Commission -- President Lyndon Johnson -- did not believe its conclusions. On September 18, 1964, the last day the panel met, commission member Sen. Richard Russell phoned Johnson, his old political protege, to tell him he did not believe the single bullet theory, the key to the commission's finding that Oswald acted alone. "I don't either," Johnson told him. Johnson's theories about what really happened in Dallas shifted over the years. Soon after the assassination, Johnson was led to believe by the CIA that Kennedy might have been the victim of a Soviet conspiracy. Later his suspicions focused on Castro; during his long-running feud with Robert Kennedy, LBJ leaked a story to Washington columnist Drew Pearson suggesting the Kennedy brothers themselves were responsible JFK's death by triggering a violent reaction from the Cuban leader with their "goddamed Murder Inc." plots to kill him. In 1967, according to a report in the Washington Post, Johnson's suspicious gaze came to rest on the CIA. The newspaper quoted White House aide Marvin Watson as saying that Johnson was "now convinced" Kennedy was the victim of a plot and "that the CIA had something to do with this plot." Max Holland, who has just published a study of LBJ's views on Dallas, "The Kennedy Assassination Tapes," intriguingly concludes that Johnson remained haunted by the murder throughout his tenure in the White House. "It is virtually an article of faith among historians that the war in Vietnam was the overwhelming reason the president left office in 1969, a worn, bitter, and disillusioned man," writes Holland. "Yet the assassination-related tapes paint a more nuanced portrait, one in which Johnson's view of the assassination weighed as heavily on him as did the war."

Critics of the Warren Report's lone-assassin conclusion were often stumped by defenders of the report with the question, "If there was a conspiracy, why didn't President Kennedy's own brother -- the attorney general of the United States, Robert Kennedy -- do anything about it?" It's true that, at least until shortly before his assassination death in June 1968, Bobby Kennedy publicly supported the Warren Report. On March 25, during a presidential campaign rally at San Fernando Valley State College in California, Kennedy was dramatically confronted by a woman heckler, who called out, "We want to know who killed President Kennedy!" Kennedy responded by saying, "I stand by the Warren Commission Report." But at a later campaign appearance, days before his assassination, Bobby Kennedy said the opposite, according to his former press spokesman Frank Mankiewicz. When asked if he would reopen the investigation into his brother's death, he uttered a simple, one-word answer: "Yes." Mankiewicz recalls today, "I remember that I was stunned by the answer. It was either like he was suddenly blurting out the truth, or it was a way to shut down the questioning -- you know, 'Yes, now let's move on.'"

His public statements on the Warren Report were obviously freighted with political and emotional -- and perhaps even security -- concerns for Bobby Kennedy. But we have no doubt what his private opinion of the report was -- as his biographer Evan Thomas wrote, Kennedy "regarded the Warren Commission as a public relations exercise to reassure the public." According to a variety of reports, Kennedy immediately suspected a plot as soon as he heard his brother had been shot in Dallas. And as he made calls and inquiries in the hours and days after the assassination, he came to an ominous conclusion: JFK was the victim of a domestic political conspiracy. In a remarkable passage in "One Hell of a Gamble," a widely praised 1997 history of the Cuban missile crisis based on declassified Soviet and U.S. government documents, historians Alexksandr Fursenko and Timothy Naftali wrote that on November 29, one week after the assassination, Bobby Kennedy dispatched a close family friend named William Walton to Moscow with a remarkable message for Georgi Bolshakov, the KGB agent he had come to trust during the nerve-wracking back-channel discussions sparked by the missile crisis. According to the historians, Walton told Bolshakov that Bobby and Jacqueline Kennedy believed "there was a large political conspiracy behind Oswald's rifle" and "that Dallas was the ideal location for such a crime." The Kennedys also sought to reassure the Soviets that despite Oswald's apparent connections to the communist world, they believed President Kennedy had been killed by American enemies. This is a stunning account -- with the fallen president's brother and widow communicating their chilling suspicions to the preeminent world rival of the U.S. -- and it has not received nearly the public attention it deserves.

CONTINUED

http://home.earthlink.net/~jkelin1/talbot.html



Why is it that some people make the koo-koo signal circling their forefinger around their temple and rolling their eyes whenever the subject is something that may be outside their understanding?

People who advance or doubt conspiracy theories when they are disagreeing with the official story are not nuts. They are not even theorists. They are Truth Seekers.



Inquisitive. Intelligent. Kind. Brave. Peaceful. Democrats.


Original DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4086438


BTW:

Not counting Prescott and the NAZIs, or his ancestor's work as Merchants of Death -- The Bush Crime Family have been operational since November 22, 1963.

From Dealey Plaza to Vietnam to Watergate to the October Surprise to Scott Hinckley's dinner plans the day Pruneface almost got whacked to Iran-Contra and CIA drug-running to Selection 2000 to illegal NSA spying to ENRON energy policy to 9-11 to illegal Iraq invasion to e-Selection 2004 -- one name keeps popping up: BUSH.

That's no theory. That's a fact.

Thanks for giving a damn, Generator.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #46
60. Octa The Reason The CIA Gives For Dismissing Criticism Of The Warren CO
Sounds eerily like the cock-a-mamie excuse the SCOTUS pulled out of their asses to stop the recount in FL. Remember it was (and I am para phasing here) along the lines of "impugning Bushes reputation and or his win?" Which was absurd because it had not been determined that he won, he just claimed it, helped by the CIA enabled press.

"Just because of the standing of the Commissioners, efforts to impugn their rectitude and wisdom tend to cast doubt on the whole leadership of American society."

To my mind they employed the exact same defense. Wow their MO doesn't deviate much. Then they just label anyone who disagrees with them a "conspiracy nut" and taunt them 24/7 with the corporate megaphone to "Get Over It." I am mad as fracking hell and there is no way I am getting over any of the BFEE BULLSHIT.

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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #60
101. Great photo of a tin-foil home office -- I esp. like the comments defendin
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 02:54 PM by Trevelyan
"conspiracy theorists" since I was called on by a woman from the UK who objected to my reprinting Nothing But Hope's prescient article on what would happen with the mercs and battle hardened troops in NOLA after Katrina on my gymnastics site stating that "someone might believe your conspiracy theories."

I used to avoid WaPo articles on Dorothy Killigen and the other people who were murdered to prevent the BFEE involvement in President Kennedy's assassination from being known thinking "I'm not a conspiracy theorist." don't know how I picked up the meme and also for the reason that it is complicated, frightening and even knowing about it at a loss what to do except keep writing and talking about it and hoping that:

"The whisper becomes louder, then a voice is heard, and then crowds of voices, and eventually the whisper becomes the roar of change!" http://forums.rawstory.com/

Conspiracy Theorists By Jolly Roger New York City January 5, 2005

..."The common perception is that someone who is labeled a "conspiracy theorist" is suffering from some type of psychological disorder, and that label is usually applied to people by our government, and our news media. The next thing to consider, is that the label is applied to anyone who questions our government's version of events in any matter. Doesn't it logically follow that the media are teaching us to assume that anyone who questions the government is insane? When that label is applied to a person, doesn't it become easy to dismiss everything they say without even hearing it? How convenient for them. "
http://www.911truth.org/index.php?topic
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
75. Man! I missed this entire post....making me tear up a bit, I must say
that picture of JFK looking into the capsule did it

it's SO very much worse than we can even imagine, I'm afraid. that's the scary part.

and these REALLY vile, really maleficent characters are in charge of everything. sadder than that is the apparent fact that even the dems have little interest in finding out what happened/is happening. it's all linked, of course

guess that makes me a conspiracy nut

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #75
82. Traitor, thy name is Bush.
At least that name turns up a heck of a lot.

Here's what Poppy told the FBI about an hour after President Kennedy was assassinated:



SOURCE: http://www.internetpirate.com/bush.htm

Too bad the wimp didn't report the threats to the President BEFORE the assassination.
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Lostnote06 Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Close to 20,000 FISA approvals, how many Denials?...n/m
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. They didn't seek FISA warrants because it wasn't legal for the CIA to be
operating domestically. Besides, after Hansen and Ames, the CIA didn't trust the Bureau, and vis-a-versa.

Neither of them really trusted FISC. Needless to say, if warrants had been sought, and the whole operation had been handled by the book -- with Congressional reporting and judicial oversight -- 9/11 would never have happened. With all those nosey overseers, the President would have had to order the UBL cells rolled up.

But, he didn't.
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Lostnote06 Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Political Detox Survivor here.....
......My return to the fog of engineered human malice leaves me bewildered....in any case thank you for the clarity....best wishes
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Welcome to DU!
Where have you been that's out of the fog? Tahiti?

I could use a vacation in such a blue sky place.:hi:
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Lostnote06 Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #26
37. Wasn't Tahiti although my freshly acquired
.....bro-n-law is of Hawaiian descent......his recent awarding of the Ronald Reagan award doesn't make me feel any better however he is a wonderful person
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
100. Join the Resistance!! I finally went to this 911 site and it is excellent
and has a section for 911 Newbies if you can convince friends and family to start exploring this horror.

The Formula For Change Now The Concept http://3c.911truth.org/

All who are concerned with the direction we're being taken as a nation need a simple yet powerful formula that will return the political decision-making process to We the People.This will involve simply setting aside about 15 minutes per month to take a consistent action.

We will contact our legislators and targeted media list the week of the 11th of each month.

We pick this date to heighten awareness of the attacks of 9/11 and the neocon agenda which stated the need for a "New Pearl Harbor" in a document written by the neocon think tank "Project For A New American Century"
titled "Rebuilding America's Defenses". (We urge you to download PDF file here.)

For more background on the neocon agenda read these two excellent articles:
PNAC 101 - Rise of the Neocons

Possible Motives Of The Bush Administration - By Dr. David Ray Griffin

Please note that the philosophy of Citizen's Counter-Coup is grounded in the principals of non-violence as practiced by Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
76. what does CIA have to do with the FBI's refusing to follow the advice
of their field agents, and seek FISA warrants?

am I missing something here?

not trying to be flip, but, as Truth Is All said in his thread, this should be the smoking gun, the piece of obvious evidence that they could have STOPPED it from happening, as you say in your post
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #76
95. Terrorism Not a Priority for Ashcroft Pre-9/11
Agree with you on this one, Gabi Hayes. The FBI itself was screaming for an investigation. HQ was saying, "Fuhgedaboudid."

While I'm not an expert on all or really any of this, I do like to spread information -- truth -- as is my right and duty per the Constitution of the United States.

That said, the firewall argument was the Reich's way of putting blame on to 911 Commissioner Jamie Gorelick, IIRC. What went unsaid, unreported and unrecorded was JohnnieReb Ashcan's role in all that happened before September 11.

So, for history:



Terrorism Not a Priority for Ashcroft Pre-9/11

April 13, 2004

Attorney General John Ashcroft should expect heavy grilling from the 9/11 Commission today given his track record or lack thereof on counterterrorism. Draft sections of the Commission's report currently in circulation chastise Ashcroft as "largely uninterested in counterterrorism issues before Sept. 11 despite intelligence warnings that summer that Al Qaeda was planning a large, perhaps catastrophic, terrorist attack," according to the New York Times.

* Counterterrorism was nowhere to be seen on Ashcroft's list of top priorities for the Justice Department. Ashcroft's May 2001 "budget goals memo" outlined the Attorney General's top seven priorities. Counterterrorism did not appear anywhere on the list. After 9/11, Ashcroft released a revised strategic goals memo in November 2001 that inserted a new priority at the top of the list "Protect America Against the Threat of Terrorism."

* Attorney General Ashcroft specifically cut counterterrorism spending prior to 9/11. Justice Department documents released by American Progress reveal that in August 2001, the FBI specifically requested additional resources to bolster counterterrorism resources. In response, Ashcroft actually cut counterterrorism funding in critical areas including equipment grants, border control, and the National Domestic Preparedness Office. Our new analysis reveals the 2002 counterintelligence budget proposed by Ashcroft cut counterintelligence spending by more than $476 million a 23 percent decline from 2001 funding levels.

* The Justice Department should release any information it has about why the Attorney General suddenly stopped flying commercial aircraft in the months prior to 9/11. In the summer of 2001, Ashcroft started flying on the FBI's Gulf Stream 5 at a cost to taxpayers of $1,600 an hour because of an undisclosed threat assessment. The Justice Department now maintains that it was a "nonspecific threat against Ashcroft's life," a fact that could be confirmed with the full release of the FBI's threat assessment.

Daily Talking Points is a product of the Center for American Progress, a non-partisan research and educational institute committed to progressive principles for a strong, just and free America.

SOURCE:

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=45491



PS: There aren't too many who make Sergeant First Class. If that's your jacket, GabiHayes, congratulations!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
42. Up to 29 October 2001 -- 12,178 warrants approved, 1 denied.
Need to find out if that one denied was for Moussaoui.

If it wasn't, then the score would be: 12, 178 warrants approveed. 2 denied.



Secret U.S. court handed new power to fight terror

But some observers fear for civil liberties


By Scott Shane
Sun Staff
Originally published October 29, 2001

In the government's all-out campaign against terrorism, it is one of the least-known and most important fronts: a windowless, soundproof, cipher-locked room on the sixth floor of the Department on Justice in Washington.

Inside, the judges of America's secret court, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Court, rule on requests to tap the phones, bug the rooms and break into the houses of terror suspects on U.S. soil.

With President Bush's signing Friday of sweeping new anti-terror legislation, the secret court's jurisdiction has been widely expanded. Attorney General John Ashcroft said he would order investigators to immediately use the new wiretap powers to track down those responsible for the Sept. 11 and anthrax attacks and to prevent new acts of terror.

With authorities on highest alert, the FBI and the National Security Agency are casting a wide surveillance net, targeting suspicious foreigners in the United States. FISA court warrants are a key tool, because they can be issued on the basis of far less evidence than traditional criminal warrants.

SNIP...

Civil liberties concerns

SNIP...

Critics such as Cole were already unhappy with the court's absolute secrecy and history of granting virtually all warrant requests the FBI and spy agencies seek. Its scorecard since 1979: 12,178 warrants approved, 1 denied.

CONTINUED...

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/custom/attack/bal-te.court29oct29,1,4462506.story



Thanks for giving a damn, Lostnote06. And a most hearty welcdome to DU!
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #42
62. No. FBI HQ decided not to approve the Moussaoui warrant request
Edited on Mon Mar-27-06 07:36 AM by leveymg
I recall there were a total of 5 denials. One of which was from FBI investigators in Chicago looking into financing of the Muslim Brotherhood. The FISC found that the FBI agent in charge of that case had falsified information in his affidavit, and disbarred him from seeking future requests.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. over fifty links from Truth is All on this subject
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Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. I would sure love to see some high ups go..
to prison over this. Thanks Octafish and everyone for another good read
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
45. Confederate Attorney General Johnny Ashcan would make a good start.
When he's not singing before big rooms, Ashkkkroft enjoyed flying home to fish Missouri waters.

Every weekend.

That is, until he heard that Osama b-- oopos, an unidentified "threat assessment" was made -- sometime in the summer of 2001.

Then Ashkopf stopped flying commercial passenger airlines and took up flying government charters.

Nice ride, if you're connected.



Ashcroft Flying High

WASHINGTON, July 26, 2001

(CBS) Fishing rod in hand, Attorney General John Ashcroft left on a weekend trip to Missouri Thursday afternoon aboard a chartered government jet, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart.

In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term.

"There was a threat assessment and there are guidelines. He is acting under the guidelines," an FBI spokesman said. Neither the FBI nor the Justice Department, however, would identify what the threat was, when it was detected or who made it.

A senior official at the CIA said he was unaware of specific threats against any Cabinet member, and Ashcroft himself, in a speech in California, seemed unsure of the nature of the threat.

"I don't do threat assessments myself and I rely on those whose responsibility it is in the law enforcement community, particularly the FBI. And I try to stay within the guidelines that they've suggested I should stay within for those purposes," Ashcroft said.

CONTINUED...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/26/national/main303601.shtml



So why would the neo-confederate fail to tell the whole story? National security? Personal security? Plausible deniability?

PS: You're welcome, Hotler! Thanks for giving a damn.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #45
111. "I don't do threat assessments myself and I rely on those whose
responsibility it is in the law enforcement community, particularly the FBI."

He was the AG. He WAS the law enforcement community. And he didn't have the curiosity to enquire as to WHAT the threat was that had him change his way of doing things?

Riiight.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
47. Instead they get promoted... go figure
SOMEONE must like their "incompetence".
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Intelligence agencies have been corrupted at the top.
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 01:24 PM by rman
Same with many other government agencies, the government itself, and many large corporations. Have been for a long time, but it has gotten a lot worse as of lately.
I think that summarizes the essence of the problem.

on edit: i forgot the military - it to is in part corrupted, mostly at the top.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. (Bush promoted them after 9/11)
should have all been fired after 9/11
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
50. USA Means ''Under Saudi Arabia''
The clans of Bush and bin Laden have been in business together for decades.



USA Means "Under Saudi Arabia"

...Thanks to the Bush Family


By Mike Hersh

Dec. 24, 2001 (APJP) -- USA now stands for "Under Saudi Arabia."

The Saudis bought both George W. Bush and his father. Ties between the Bush and bin Laden families, the Carlyle Group, and Saudi Arabia let the Riyadh regime beat America like a rented camel.

As the Boston Herald reported, "Many of the same American corporate executives who have reaped millions of dollars from arms and oil deals with the Saudi monarchy have served or currently serve at the highest levels of U.S. government, public records show."

According to the Herald, we have to worry because "Those lucrative financial relationships call into question the ability of America's political elite to make tough foreign policy decisions about the kingdom that produced Osama bin Laden and is perhaps the biggest incubator for anti-Western Islamic terrorists."

How close are Bush family ties to Saudi Arabia? "Nowhere is the revolving U.S.-Saudi money wheel more evident than within President Bush's own coterie of foreign policy advisers, starting with the president's father, George H.W. Bush," explains this Herald expos.

SNIP...

On that program, national security expert Joe Trento answers clearly. These conflicts of interests mean: "housands of Americans had to die needlessly." Peter Elsner wonders: "How can it be that the former President of the US and the current President of the US have business dealings with characters that need to be investigated?"

CONTINUED...

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20011224Hersh.html



So have the satraps who serve them. Joseph Trento spells things out pretty nicely in two recent works, "Prelude to Terror: the Rogue CIA, The Legacy of America's Private Intelligence Network the Compromising of American Intelligence" and "The Secret History of the CIA." These two map out the origins of the Intel Community and where the modern-day Bush Crime Syndicate comes in -- right when the NAZIs were welcomed into the CIA to fight the Communists during the closing days of World War II.

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. The fish stinks from the head!!!!!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
51. Hey! I resemble that remark!


With sincere apologies to Moe H.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Why would Osama want to kill his former business partner?
Jim Hatfield, the writer who asked, was found "suicided" a few weeks after asking.



Why would Osama bin Laden want to kill Dubya, his former business partner?

By James Hatfield

Editor's note: In light of last week's horrific events and the Bush administration's reaction to them, we are reprising the following from the last column Jim Hatfield wrote for Online Journal prior to his tragic death on July 18:

July 3, 2001There may be fireworks in Genoa, Italy, this month, too.

A plot by Saudi master terrorist, Osama bin Laden, to assassinate Dubya during the July 20 economic summit of world leaders, was uncovered after dozens of suspected Islamic militants linked to bin Laden's international terror network were arrested in Frankfurt, Germany, and Milan, Italy, in April.

German intelligence services have stated that bin Laden is covertly financing neo-Nazi skinhead groups throughout Europe to launch another terrorist attack at a high-profile American targethis first since the bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen last October.

According to counter-terrorism experts quoted in Germany's largest newspaper, the attack on Dubya might be a James Bond-like aerial strike in the form of remote-controlled airplanes packed with plastic explosives.

Why would Osama bi Laden want to kill, Dubya, his former business partner?

I knew that bombshell would whip your heads around. So here's the straight scoop, folks.

CONTINUED...

http://www.onlinejournal.org/Special_Reports/Hatfield-R-091901/hatfield-r-091901.html



The above was from summer 2001, when the coward from Crawford was afraid of airplanes falling from the sky at the Genoa G-8 summit.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #52
68. A Lot Of People Wouldn't Scruple to Kill Bush
The line forms on the Right----and goes all the way across----
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #52
112. And what was the cause of Hatfield's untimely death? nt
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #51
65. Apologies to YOU Octafish. And what a PERFECT image. It captures
what W stands for so perfectly, which is an insult to the Three Stooges, of course.
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. Another Octafish post to bookmark.
K&R
Thanks for all you do!
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harpo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. ditto
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
86. FBI Inspector Generals Report
Something that should never be buried, Truth:



FBI inspector generals report:
more evidence of government complicity in 9/11 attacks


By Patrick Martin
15 June 2005

EXCERPT...

The Phoenix memo

The FBI internal report examines the three best-known episodes in which the bureau, which is the lead agency for counterterrorist activities within the United States, missed or ignored important signals of the coming terrorist attacks. Two of the cases involved local FBI agents who voiced suspicions that were disregarded or suppressed by FBI headquarters. In the third case, the CIA deliberately kept the FBI in the darkwith the assistance of certain FBI officials.

The first instance is the electronic memo of July 10, 2001 from Kenneth Williams, an FBI agent in Phoenix, Arizona, noting the number of students with ties to radical Islamic fundamentalists enrolled at local aviation training schools, and suggesting that a nationwide canvass of these schools be carried out to determine if there was a pattern.

The second is the bureaus response to the arrest of Zaccarias Moussaoui, an Islamic fundamentalist who was detained by the Immigration and Naturalization Service after his attempts to obtain training on a Boeing 747 aroused suspicions at a Minneapolis-area flight school. Moussaoui was detained on immigration charges in early August 2001, but FBI headquarters blocked efforts by Minneapolis agents to pursue an investigation that could have identified other Al Qaeda operatives at US flight schools.

The third is the case of Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, believed to have participated in the hijacking of American Airlines Flight 77, which hit the Pentagon on 9/11. Despite being on a CIA watch list because of connections to Al Qaeda, the two lived openly in San Diego, California for a year or more. The CIA only notified the FBI of their presence in the US on August 27, 2001, 20 months after their arrival, and only two weeks before September 11.


CONTINUED...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/jun2005/fbi-j15.shtml



Thanks, harpo! Very much appreciate you give a damn.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
85. FBI Ineptitude
Here's what real journalists, leading members of the still-free press have observed:



FBI ineptitude

Times Argus (Vermont) editorial
March 24, 2006

EXCERPT...

The government's position is that Moussaoui possessed information that, had he shared it in a timely manner with the FBI, might have prevented the 9/11 attacks. Since he didn't, the agency's lawyers argued, he therefore should be executed. But court testimony showed the FBI had a good chance to get that information on its own and flat-out blew it. What's the proper punishment for that? "The FBI has to have a confession ... before anybody listens?" Edward MacMahon, Moussaoui's lawyer, asked in court Thursday. It's a fair question.

FBI agent Harry Samit testified that he frequently sent urgent messages about Moussaoui and his probable terrorist connections to his superiors but that they were ignored. And in determining whether Moussaoui will live or die, that kind of incompetence has become incredibly relevant.

Three weeks before 9/11, Samit testified, he filed a lengthy report explaining why he suspected Moussaoui was connected to al Qaida and why he therefore was seeking authority for an investigation that would include a search of Moussaoui's belongings and, importantly, his computer. But, incredibly, his report was ignored.

Michael Rolince, chief of the bureau's international terrorism section at the time, testified that he had never even read Samit's report, although it had been filed with his office on Aug. 18, 2001. Also, it turns out French intelligence agencies had told the FBI's Minneapolis office they had evidence Moussaoui was working with bin Laden.

The Moussaoui case makes the government look inept, and there is other evidence: On Aug. 6, 2001, long before Samit's warnings reached Washington, the president's own daily briefing was entitled "Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S."

CONTINUED...

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060324/NEWS/603240309/1021



And you're most welcome, bear425! Your kinds words are most appreciated, as is the fact you give a damn about where we are and where we're going.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. I wish more DUers would read your posts.
Instead, they waste their time bashing the "conspiracy nuts," like me. :D



Let's keep connecting the dots Octafish, and thank you for your invaluable posts. :hi:
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. well....you ARE nuts, aren't you?
join the club

btw, what happened to the titanium-laden engines from flight 77? how come there is supposedly NO debris, ZERO, from that plane at the pentagon?

can this be true?

I don't even want to start considering what happened (or didn't) there.

but.....



should I make that into a bumper sticker?

here's what I have on the car now:



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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. LOL!
Yeah, make it a bumper sticker! :D

There is no debris at Ground Zero because the Bushler bastards had it removed! :mad:


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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
49. yeah, sad huh?nt
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #20
53. Thanks, Maestro. Remember what Ray McGovern said...
Ray McGovern thanks the research community for going after the Truth. In an interview with Randi Rhodes, the former CIA analyst discussed his changing beliefs regarding Conspiracy Theorists. He was asked about 9-11 and the security stand-down

All of that all of thatstrains credulity. I was foolish enough in my callow youth to believe the conclusions of the Warren Commission on the JFK assassination. That went on to even in my middle age I was inclined to believe the inquiry into the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Never. Never again, Randi, will I disparage people who look into these things and bear the brunt of crticicism as conspiracy theorists. I think those people are doing a patriotic service to this country. And I think we have to remember The reason there are so many questions is this administration refuses to answer these questions.

LINK: The one I got is bushsted. I'll try from the rabbit for a nice one.



Most importantly: I appreciate you giving a damn, Swamp Rat. Mehr licht, mein Freund.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. Danke und das Gewinde wieder eine treten.
:kick:


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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
23. when you finish current Octafish thread, try this for a refresher:
maybe the seminal Octafish/BFEE thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=133897

do you have a list of your threads? I have quite a few bookmarked, but am sure there are some I've missed; I have this week off
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
54. Thank you, Gabi Hayes. I'd be honored...
Here's a listing of the "Know your BFEE" series. It's named that in ironic honor of Dick Tracy "Neighborhood Crimestoppers" comics thing.



Pruneface

Know your BFEE Log

Know your BFEE: Moussaoui Must Die for Bush and 'His' Government

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=602016


Know your BFEE: Alito is just another word for Mussolini

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=266685


What the heck, this belongs there, too:

BFEE Turd Daniel Pipes tied to DANISH CARTOONS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=417774


Know your BFEE: Like a NAZI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=133897


Know your BFEE: The China-Bush Axis

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5333644


Know your BFEE: Bush and bin Laden Clans Together in Bed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5280903


Know your BFEE: Libby Is the First Big BFEE Turd to Go Down

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5233814


Know your BFEE: WHIG (White House Iraq Group) made phony case for Iraq War

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5077403


Know your BFEE: The Secret Government

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5027094


Know your BFEE: Reinhard Gehlen

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4863411&mesg_id=4863411


Know your BFEE: Poppy Bush Armed Saddam

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4813493


Know your BFEE: Killer Businessmen who put Power and Profit before Country

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4401300


Know your BFEE: Nixon Threatened to Nuke Vietnam

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3953519


Know your BFEE: Corrupt Craftsmen Hoover and Dulles

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3908104


Know your BFEE: Poppys CIA Made Saddam Into the Butcher of Baghdad

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3853409


Know your BFEE: Hitlers Bankers Shaped Vietnam War

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3832033&mesg_id=3832033&page=


Know your BFEE: Merchants of Death

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3743890


Know your BFEE: R. James Woolsey, Turd of War

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3699042


Know your BFEE: Sneering Dick Cheney, Superturd-Superrich-Supercrook

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3627538


Know your BFEE: Bush Lied America into War

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3601654


Know your BFEE: James R Bath Bush bin Laden Link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3571293&mesg_id=3571293&page=


Know your BFEE: War Profiteers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3493251


Know your BFEE: Dead Men Tell No Tales

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5280903


Know your BFEE: Rev. Sun Myung Moon OWNS Poppy Bush

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3355939


Know your BFEE: Homeland Czar & Petro-Turd Bernie Kerik

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2788428


Know your BFEE: American Children Used in Radiation Experiments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3312956


Know your BFEE: Eugenics and the NAZIs - The California Connection

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2511192


Know your BFEE: The Barreling Bushes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2472759


Know your BFEE: A Crime Line of Treason

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2748315


Know your BFEE: How Smirko Got Rich

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2529964


Know your BFEE: George W Bush did "community service" at Project P.U.L.L.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2956067


Know your BFEE: Vote Suppressor Supreme, the Turd Bill Rehnquist

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2414083


Know your BFEE: George W Bush Knew 9-11 Was Coming and Did NOTHING!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2404049


Know your BFEE: Oliver North, Drug Dealer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2396787


Know your BFEE: Pat Robertson Incorporated a Gold Mine with a Terrorist

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2397004



These arent labeled Know Your BFEE, but theyre meant in the same spirit:

Poppy Bush Involved in JFK Assassination -- BFEE's Spooked!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3274455



JFK Would NEVER Have Fallen for Phony INTEL!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5501005&mesg_id=5501005


BFEE Is More than Capable of Bombing Their Own Countrymen

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4045149


And for all my friends in those hard-to-reach areas:

A Short History of Conspiracy Theory

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4086438


Seemslikeadream commissioned this portrait of me at work on the BFEE:



Apart from the weight gain and hair loss, a good likeness...
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. AWEsome! I have the week off, too! Now....WTF is up with that picture?
I see that it's a butcher, but WTF?

the rest of your pictures kill, btw, especially the GMan-related stuff
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
24. from the header, the below link was actually covered on NPR the other day.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2102266,00.html

I couldn't believe my ears as I listened to much of what's in this article waft its way across the airwaves.

they made the point that one of the witnesses broke down and cried on the stand--not sure if it was Hamit, or somebody else, but it was compelling

and INFURIATING, as none of this has apparently been covered at all on TV-cable or otherwise; if it has, it was the typical "one mention, then down the memory hole" sort of thing

this is the story that SHOULD bring this entire criminal enterprise to the ground


why don't the, uh, spineless ones start going crazy over this? look what the pugs were able to do with the complete nonstory of that land deal in Arkansas. after eight years of beating it into the ground, they were able to poison the well sufficiently to allow these thieves to wrench the electoral process away from us, maybe permanently
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
87. FBI agents Wright and Vincent said FBI stopped their terror investigation
There really must be a lot of moles in Washington to do all the damage to our national security...





An anti-terror FBI agent is under fire from within.

FBI Agents Probing Terror Links Say They Were Told, Let Sleeping Dogs Lie


By Brian Ross and Vic Walter
ABC News
December 19, 2002

Dec. 19 Two veteran FBI investigators say they were ordered to stop investigations into a suspected terror cell linked to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network and the Sept. 11 attacks.

In a dramatic interview with ABCNEWS, FBI special agents and partners Robert Wright and John Vincent say they were called off criminal investigations of suspected terrorists tied to the deadly bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa. U.S. officials say al Qaeda was responsible for the embassy attacks and the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.

"September the 11th is a direct result of the incompetence of the FBI's International Terrorism Unit. No doubt about that. Absolutely no doubt about that," Wright said. "You can't know the things I know and not go public."

In the mid-1990s, with growing terrorism in the Middle East, the two Chicago-based agents were assigned to track a connection to Chicago, a suspected terrorist cell that would later lead them to a link with Osama bin Laden. Wright says that when he pressed for authorization to open a criminal investigation into the money trail, his supervisor stopped him.

"Do you know what his response was? 'I think it's just better to let sleeping dogs lie,'" said Wright. "Those dogs weren't sleeping. They were training. They were getting ready."

CONTINUED...

http://web.archive.org/web/20021220054102/http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/FBI_whistleblowers021219.html



Some people should never be seen or heard.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
27. On the subject, have you heard any updates on the black boxes?
Or have they disappeared down the memory hole, like Harper's fragment and the Babushka Lady's film of the Grassy Knoll?



2 say they found 9/11 'black boxes' (Philadelphia Daily News)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=938848

Thanks to Minstrel Boy for this find!
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. did those sorts of planes have black boxes?
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I'm talking about the 9/11 planes, not the flight school ones.
Just in case there's any confusion.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. no I was talking about the 9/11 ones
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
89. Funny how that happens. 'Member the Saudi Princess who Financed Hijackers?
"Funny" as in "odd."

Then again, it's not so odd considering what we're dealing with.

These are some mighty powerful turds, that manipulate the nation's mass media at will.

That's why they so fear the Truth.

Regarding the "Black Boxes," what's on them will never see the light of day until the Bush regime and their satraps are safely locked away in Leavenworth and The Hague.



Did Saudi Princess Give Money to 9/11 Hijackers?

An aide to Crown Prince Abdullah denied on November 24, 2002 that the Saudi government had sent money to two of the Sept. 11 hijackers, Khalid al-Mihdhar (L) and Nawaf al-Hazmi. (FBI/Reuters) Questioning Saudi Arabia


25 NOV 2003
ABC News

W A S H I N G T O N, Nov. 25 U.S. lawmakers are calling for the Bush administration to investigate whether Saudi money made it into the hands of two of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers.

At issue is whether money from an account in the name of Princess Haifa al-Faisal, wife of the Saudi ambassador to Washington, reached the hijackers. Newsweek published a story making such an allegation.

Besides a U.S. probe into the charge, members of Congress who spoke on the Sunday morning news programs also demanded that Bush officials press Saudi officials for answers.

"The greatest weakness in the president's foreign policy is that he refuses to tell the Saudis to fess up, which side of the fence are you on?," Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said on ABCNEWS' This Week.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., speaking on the same program, said the U.S. government had been "lax in our efforts to make the Saudis cooperate in a broad variety of ways."

CONTINUED...

http://web.archive.org/web/20030620092645/www.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/saudi_021125.html



So what's McCain done since then?



And please clue me in, DU Friend robertpaulsen, regarding the Flight Data Recorders. I imagine they contain some most revealing information.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #89
103. Thanks Octafish. Here's the most recent news I could find: FBI Coverup!
December 19, 2005
A CounterPunch Special Report
Did the Bush Administration Lie to Congress and the 9/11 Commission?
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI

By DAVE LINDORFF

One of the more puzzling mysteries of 9-11 is what ever happened to the flight recorders of the two planes that hit the World Trade Center towers. Now it appears that they may not be missing at all.

Counterpunch has learned that the FBI has them.

Flight recorders (commonly known as black boxes, though these days they are generally bright orange) are required on all passenger planes. There are always two-a flight data recorder that keeps track of a plane's speed, altitude, course and maneuvers, and a cockpit voice recorder which keeps a continuous record of the last 30 minutes of conversation inside a plane's cockpit. These devices are constructed to be extremely durable, and are installed in a plane's tail section, where they are least likely suffer damaged on impact. They are designed to withstand up to 30 minutes of 1800-degree heat (more than they would have faced in the twin towers crashes), and to survive a crash at full speed into the ground.

All four of the devices were recovered from the two planes that hit the Pentagon and that crashed in rural Pennsylvania. In the case of American Airlines Flight 77, which hit the Pentagon, the FBI reports that the flight data recorder survived and had recoverable information, but the voice recorder was allegedly too damaged to provide any record. In the case of United Airlines Flight 93, which hit the ground at 500 mph in Pennsylvania, the situation was reversed: the voice recorder survived but the flight data box was allegedly damaged beyond recovery.

But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.

more...

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff12202005.html
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. Unofficially, NTSB had them. Officially, its just like Wellstone's murder
From the same link:

Now there is stronger evidence that something is amiss than simply the alleged non-recovery of all four of those boxes. A source at the National Transportation Safety Board, the agency that has the task of deciphering the date from the black boxes retrieved from crash sites-including those that are being handled as crimes and fall under the jurisdiction of the FBI-says the boxes were in fact recovered and were analyzed by the NTSB.

"Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You'd have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here."

The official word from the NTSB is that the WTC crash site black boxes never turned up. "No recorders were recovered from the World Trade Center," says the NTSB's Lopatkiewicz. "At least none were delivered to us by the FBI." He adds that the agency has "always had a good relationship' with the FBI and that in all prior crime-related crashes or flight incidents, they have brought the boxes to the NTSB for analysis.



Octafish, have you read American Assassination? It's an excellent book about Paul Wellstone's murder. That last paragraph reminded me of the book:



AMERICAN ASSASSINATION confirms the worst fears of a nation. Senator Paul Wellstone was murdered.

Both authors are decorated university professors. A Native American, Four Arrows (a.k.a. Dr. Don Jacobs) teaches educational leadership and is a staunch critic of US foreign policy. Dr. Jim Fetzer is a published expert on U.S. political assassinations and the logic of science.

Although no one can prove exactly what happened in the events leading to Wellstones death, these two Ph.D.s point out the official storys inconsistencies and deliberate omissions. With a methodical argument, they present evidence of an official cover-up, a compelling motive for Wellstones assassination and advance a more likely explanation for how Senator Wellstone's plane was taken down. Their findings include new evidence and alternative hypotheses that were never considered by the NTSB:

There was never any distress call from the pilots. Communication was somehow cut off shortly before the crash.

NTSBs Carol Carmody handled the Wellstone case. A former CIA official, Carmody is a damage-control expert who handled the NTSBs investigation of the suspicious aircraft crash of Democratic Senatorial candidate Mel Carnahan, exactly two years earlier.

NTSB is legally mandated to take jurisdiction over a crash scene, yet it allowed the FBI to control the scene--and then neglected to cite the FBIs involvement in presence in the NTSB's final report.

Some witnesses heard the engines cutting out, a phenomenon not consistent with a stall.

Others reported odd cell-phone and garage-door phenomena that were taking place about the same time the plane lost both communications and control.

The NTSB's own simulations, which replicated properties like those of King Air A-100s under similar conditions, were unable to bring the plane downeven when conducted under abnormally slow speeds!

One of the members who actually signed the report, Richard Healing, admitted that they really had no idea what had caused the plane to crash.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0975276301/102-9757837-3604964?v=glance&n=283155


Talk about deja vu all over again!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. Agree. Paul Wellstone was not afraid of Bush Sr, Jr or anybody.
He'd have stood in their way to illegal Iraq invasion, shouted there was no linkage between 9-11 and Saddam; and stood his ground when pushed by the torture bullies.

Jacobs and Fetzer are dedicated and credible researchers who advance interesting takes on the evidence. Their web site adds a lot of light on the subject.

http://www.assassinationscience.com/

While I don't have enough facts to base this other than a general understanding of the BFEE, but I agree with their conclusion that Sen. Paul Wellstone was murdered, but I cannot endorse one thesis over another until I have more information. What I will say is the pilots were made out to be the bad guys in all this. The senior pilot was even smeared after the crash as in trouble with the law. Word was he was a top pilot.

The co-pilot was from the town next door to mine. I didn't know him, but he crossed paths with Moussaoui and played an important role in what got into the laptop:



Wellstone and 911: The Uncanny Connections

By Christopher Bollyn - The American Free Press

THE DEATH OF A SENATOR

EXCERPT...

Co-pilot & Moussaoui

The co-pilot who flew with Wellstone had known Zacharias Moussaoui, the accused Sept. 11 conspirator who had attended an Eagan (Minn.) flight school.

Co-pilot Michael Guess, 30, had met the flying student Moussaoui at the Pan Am International Flight Academy where Guess worked last year. Guess had reportedly inadvertently given Moussaoui unattended access to a computer program on flying a 747 jumbo jet.

An ex-manager of Pan Am told the FBI that Guess had placed a CD-ROM containing the 747 software at a workstation before one of Moussaouis training sessions. After Moussaoui was arrested, the FBI searched his belongings and found the proprietary program copied on his laptop computer, the ex-manager said.

Guess had recently been laid off at the flight academy, where he had hoped to become a flight instructor.

At Executive Aviation in Eden Prairie, where Guess had been employed as a pilot since June 2001, a spokesman said colleagues remembered Guess telling them he had played a more significant role regarding the suspicions concerning Moussaoui, the Star Tribune reported.

Dave Mona, a spokesman for Executive Aviation, said Guess colleagues had said Guess had described himself as at least a role player in the detection of Moussaoui. Mona said Guess had told his colleagues that he and the receptionist . . . thought what was requesting was unusual and had raised the issue with others.

SOURCE with lots on the Wellstone connections to 9-11:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=271



Things get strange when the Bushes are involved. I fear for my family, my friends and my country.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
31. We've just got to take away that black marker pen from Bush
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. And all his toadies...
Della's mom told us a story about coming into her room to find the walls "decorated" with orange crayon. Della stood there with her hands behind her back saying, "I didn't do it, Mommy!" Mom wrested the orange crayon from Della's hands while she screamed, "I didn't do it, Mommy!"
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #34
90. The Phoenix Memo
The purpose of this communication is to advise the Bureau and New York of the possibility of a coordinated effort by USAMA BIN LADEN (UBL) to send students to the United States to attend civil aviation universities and colleges. Phoenix has o served an inordinate number of individuals of investigative interest who are attending or who have attended civil aviation universities and colleges in the State of Arizona. The inordinate number of these individuals attending these type of schools and fatwas (BLACKED OUT).



Complete 10-page memo, as released with a buttload of redactions:

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/phoenix-memo/

And a mighty thank-a-yee to you savemefromdumbya and Karenina!

Mehr licht, von der Staasi.
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ngGale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
35. Octafish, great work as usual...
I keep trying a political detox myself, HGTV 24/7, but I can always count on you to catch me up to date. One thing J.Q. Public never has to worry about, the tee-vee media giving out this info. Wonder how many people even know what "Able Danger" is or was!?! Or, just how important Moussaoui really is ...

Thank you Octafish, for keeping us on the ball and headed in the right direction.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
91. Thanks, ngGale! Remember this one?
Here's a bit TV streaked past...



FBI Let Suspect Go
Five Terror Suspects Arrested; Two Still at Large


By Brian Ross
ABC News
18 DEC 2003

Dec. 18 Seven people have been criminally charged with financing terrorism, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced today. Five of the suspects are under arrest but two others, a married couple, are still at large which an active FBI agent says represents a significant failure by the agency.

Authorities indicted Mousa Abu Marzook, a top Hamas political leader who was deported from the United States in 1997, and his wife. The two are accused of conspiring to violate U.S. laws that prohibit financial dealings with terrorists. The vice president of a Texas-based computer company called InfoCom Corp. and four of his brothers are under arrest on the same charges.

"Today's charges against a senior leader of Hamas are the latest in an aggressive campaign to identify, disrupt and destroy the sources of funding that make terrorism possible," Ashcroft said.

What the attorney general did not mention was that Marzook was in U.S. custody in 1997 and under criminal investigation then for much the same crimes cited today.

But according to Robert Wright, one of the FBI agents on the case at the time, FBI headquarters ordered a halt to the criminal investigation of Marzook in 1998, preferring instead to gather intelligence reports on his movements.

CONTINUED...

http://web.archive.org/web/20030620075243/www.abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/marzook021218.html



Wonder if old JohnnieReb Ashkkkan ever did get 'em in custody?



And you're most welcome, ngGale! Really appreciate that you give a damn!
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. k/r
:banghead:
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. PNAC Neo Fascists needed a "New Pearl Harbor".
They got what they needed.

LIHOP
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #43
96. Sibel Edmonds and Ashcroft's War on Truth
Yeah. And the sin-filled world got what it deserves (at least that's what the fundamentaminimalist nutjobs say).

What thinking people know:



Ashcroft's War on Truth

Our Broken System


By SIBEL EDMONDS
Former FBI translator
Counterpunch
July 9, 2004

EXCERPT...

Under this broken system the attorney general of the United States is being allowed to illegally gag the United States Congress regarding my case. And even worse, the United States Congress is readily complying with this illegal gag.

Under this broken system the attorney general of the United States is being allowed to hinder ongoing investigations such as those of the 9/11 Commission and the DOJ-Inspector General.

Under this broken system the Attorney General of the United States is getting away with interfering and tampering with pending cases under the judicial process, such as my court cases and the lawsuit by the 9/11 victim families.

John Ashcroft's relentless fight against me, my information, and my case, on various fronts, from the Congress to the courts, and from the 9/11 Commission to the Inspector General's Office, has been taking place under his attempt at a vague justification titled "Protecting Certain Foreign and Diplomatic Relations for National Security."

On September 11, 2001, 3,000 lives were lost. Yet this administration has hindered all past and on going investigations into the causes of that horrific day for the sake of this vague notion of protecting "certain diplomatic and foreign relations."

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/edmonds07092004.html



LIHOP? MIHOP? SOSO: War Party wins.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
44. Thank you Octafish
We're not worthy.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #44
97. LOL! You certainly are, burythehatchet. Why IS that IG report so redacted?




Muffled No Longer, Rowley Runs for Congress

Speaking of suicide bombers, FBI agent didbefore 9-11but superiors in D.C. didn't listen


EXCERPT...

To refresh your memory, read Rowley's May 21, 2002, memo to FBI Director Robert Mueller; a redacted (of course) version was posted by Time. In it, Rowley told Mueller:

The issues are fundamentally ones of INTEGRITY and go to the heart of the FBI's law enforcement mission and mandate.

There's a reason she capitalized the word integrity. She basically accused Mueller and other HQ jerkoffs, who include Marion "Spike" Bowman, of not only screwing up before 9-11 but then covering their asses afterwards by misrepresenting what the Minneapolis agents had done. Here's what happened, excerpted from her letter:

The Minneapolis agents who responded to the call about Moussaoui's flight training identified him as a terrorist threat from a very early point. The decision to take him into custody on August 15, 2001, on the INS "overstay" charge was a deliberate one to counter that threat and was based on the agents' reasonable suspicions.

Rowley noted that Moussaoui could be held because he had overstayed his visa and termed that "fortuitous":

It allowed for him to be taken into immediate custody and prevented him receiving any more flight training, it was certainly not something the INS coincidentally undertook of their own volition. I base this on the conversation I had when the agents called me at home late on the evening Moussaoui was taken into custody to confer and ask for legal advice about their next course of action. The INS agent was assigned to the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force and was therefore working in tandem with FBI agents.

The FBI agents weren't lying down on the job. They wanted to get a criminal warrant, but they needed HQ's OK. Info from French investigators piqued the interest in Moussaoui, but HQ wouldn't listen:

FBIHQ personnel disputed with the Minneapolis agents the existence of probable cause to believe that a criminal violation had occurred/was occurring.


Now bear with me while I quote a lengthy passage from her letter. It's important because, you see, after 9-11, FBIHQ OK'd a search warrant, of course. Here's Rowley, talking about the Minneapolis office's attempt to investigate before 9-11:

The two possible criminal violations initially identified by Minneapolis Agents were violations of Title 18 United States Code Section 2332b (Acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries, which, notably, includes "creating a substantial risk of serious bodily injury to any other person by destroying or damaging any structure, conveyance, or other real or personal property within the United States or by attempting or conspiring to destroy or damage any structure, conveyance, or other real or personal property within the United States") and Section 32 (Destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities).

It is important to note that the actual search warrant obtained on September 11th was based on probable cause of a violation of Section 32.1 Notably also, the actual search warrant obtained on September 11th did not include the French intelligence information. Therefore, the only main difference between the information being submitted to FBIHQ from an early date which HQ personnel continued to deem insufficient and the actual criminal search warrant which a federal district judge signed and approved on September 11th, was the fact that, by the time the actual warrant was obtained, suspected terrorists were known to have hijacked planes which they then deliberately crashed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.


To say then, as has been iterated numerous times, that probable cause did not exist until after the disastrous event occurred, is really to acknowledge that the missing piece of probable cause was only the FBI's (FBIHQ's) failure to appreciate that such an event could occur. The probable cause did not otherwise improve or change.
This all came out in 2002, so it's astonishing that Congress didn't immediately launch a thorough investigation. It's even more incredible that Congress trusted the Bush regime's word that the best way to fight terror was to invade Iraq. And then it's really amazing that Bush got a second term.

CONTINUED...

http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/bushbeat/archive/001074.php



Thanks for the kind words, burythehatchet. As are all good people who give a damn -- who CARE -- about where the nation is and where it is heading. I'm no Bodhisatva, but I play one on the Internet.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
48. How did it all get like this? Could it be.....
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #48
108. Did somebody say ''Pat Robertson"?
The nutjob does business with Satan. In this example the spirit of Satan inhabits the form of Charles Taylor, now on the run from authorities in Nigeria.



Pat Robertson's Gold

By Colbert I. King
Saturday, September 22, 2001; Page A29

EXCERPT...

Which is the subject of today's column, and the basis for this humble question: What, pray tell, does the Good Lord make of Pat Robertson's gold-mining venture in Liberia with Charles Taylor, international pariah and one of the most ruthless, greedy and terror-producing heads of state in all of sub-Saharan Africa?

What? He didn't know?

Well it probably slipped Robertson's mind, busy as he is in getting people to send in those checks, money orders and love offerings to support his cause. How the reverend found time to hook up with Taylor, I'll never know.

But in May 1999, Robertson, through Freedom Gold Limited, an offshore company registered in the Cayman Islands but based at CBN headquarters in Virginia Beach, signed an agreement with Taylor and key cabinet members allowing the for-profit Freedom Gold to explore and receive mining rights in southeastern Liberia, where gold is believed to be in the ground.

It's a great deal for Liberia, which is now an economic basket case thanks to the long civil war and Taylor's corruption. It's also good for Freedom Gold, which was formed by Robertson in 1998. Liberia -- and for all practical purposes we're talking Taylor -- gains 10 percent ownership of Freedom Gold.

As The Post's Douglas Farah reported in January, huge amounts of the country's funds have been siphoned off by a small group of Taylor's associates and relatives. Taylor "has his hand in everything and gets a cut of everything," a businessman told The Post. Other Liberians, probably Taylor's gang, are entitled to buy at least 15 percent of Freedom Gold's shares after the exploration period.

CONTINUED...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A7124-2001Sep21



This are some seriously greedy people, this BFEE.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
56. Once again you've given us something that we can sink our teeth into.
Thanks Octafish for your exceptional service to our DU community and America.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #56
110. Why Moussaoui Confession Doesn't Add Up
Remembering Sirhan Sirhan and what we've since learned about MK/ULTRA and so on, there's almost nothing that would surprise me about Moussaoui.

Removing my own opinions, here's a bit of sense on this whole thing:



Briefing: why Moussaoui confession doesn't add up

Daniel McGrory,a Times expert on al-Qaeda, examines the inconsistencies behind Zacarias Moussaoui's confession that he was part of the 9/11 plot

"From the start of the hearing to decide whether he should be executed or spend the rest of his life in jail, Zacarias Moussaoui made it clear he regarded the proceedings as a joke. He mocked the judge, shouted obscenities at the jury and has repeatedly shown his contempt for the court, saying he only recognises Islamic law.

"His exasperated defence lawyer, Gerald Zerkin, admits he has no idea what his client is going to say or do next as he has no control over the former London university student.

"Asked why he signed a guilty plea as "the twentieth hijacker", Moussaoui smirked and said: 'Because everybody used to refer to me as the 20th hijacker and it was a bit of fun.'

"Prosecutors have no interest in demolishing Moussaouis extraordinary confession as the self- proclaimed al-Qaeda terrorist seems to have done their job for them. It does not appear to matter to them that Moussaouis testimony contradicts their own evidence.

"The CIA has in custody the man who orchestrated the attacks on the World Trade Center, and he has told his interrogators that Moussaoui was not part of any 9/11 cell. That handpicked team came from similar backgrounds and bore little resemblance to the Frenchman of Morrocan descent who was too indisciplined to be trusted on such a crucial mission.

CONTINUED...(don't understand the quote marks, but it's from a Times of London interview)...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2107742,00.html



Thank you for the kind words, oasis. Coming from you, they mean a lot as I owe my freedom to you and all who've served our nation.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
57. I like. (nt)
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #57
113. STRATFOR: Moussaoui's doubtful role, the guy WANTS to be a martyr.
Thanks, stickdog. Here's what STRATFOR (Strategic Forecast) has to say about this thing:



Zacarias Moussaoui's Doubtful Role in Sept. 11

March 29, 2006 18 40 GMT

EXCERPT...

Moussaoui's claim regarding the Sept. 11 attack quite likely is false, mainly because the timing is all wrong. He entered the United States in February 2001, nearly a year after the real Sept. 11 pilots arrived in late spring/early summer 2000. The original plan, however, called for the attack to occur in May, which would have put Moussaoui on U.S. soil too late to establish a cover and train as a pilot. Moussaoui, who already had washed out of a flight school in Norman, Okla., was taking flying lessons at the Pan Am International Flying Academy in Eagan, Minn., when his erratic behavior attracted attention and led to his arrest on immigration charges in August 2001.

Moussaoui's claim that Reid was to be part of his attack team also rings false because all 15 of the "muscle hijackers," those who would control the passengers while the others flew the airplanes, were in the United States by early July 2001. At the time, Reid was still in Europe.

Several other militants in U.S. custody have denied that Moussaoui ever was part of the Sept. 11 operation. This group comprises Mustafa al-Hawsawi, who arranged travel finances for al Qaeda; Mohammed al-Qahtani, who allegedly was to be the 20th hijacker in the Sept. 11 attack; South Asian militant leader Hambali; and Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. These people, of course, all had good reason to lie to U.S. investigators -- especially if they harbored hopes that other cells still could attempt follow-on attacks.

It is possible, therefore, that Moussaoui and Reid were supposed to be part of a follow-on attack, perhaps part of the "planes operation." In that case there would be three other militants in the cell who are unaccounted for. Given al Qaeda's penchant for making multiple strikes, several planes would have been involved in that strike as well. So, where are the other operatives from those flights? Most likely they, like Moussaoui and Reid, are European citizens who, because of their EU citizenship, could have entered the United States without visas -- thus slipping past heightened security following the initial Sept. 11 attack.

CONTINUED...

Printable Page

http://www.stratfor.com/products/premium/read_article.php?id=264116



This stuff stinks. It's like everything to do with the BFEE.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
59. Great post, Octafish ~
All of this reminds me of John O'Neill ~ and the odd coincidence of his death on 9/11 in the WTC.

I came across this interesting article which deals a little bit with John O'Neill ~

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP206A.html

He too was frustrated by the apparent lack of interest of those who should have been most concerned, in the threat that was becoming more real every day throughout the summer of 2001.

The more we learn from the Moussaoui trial and from other sources, the more questions are raised about why the Bush administration took literally no steps to try to assess the threat or to try to stop it. Bush was on one of the longest vacations in presidential history right before 9/11.

So many obstructions to information that could have prevented 9/11 make it difficult to think it was just a lack of communication between the FBI and the CIA ~

I will bookmark this thread ~ great work, Octafish, love the pictorials, btw :-). If only the media would do a series of documentaries on these issues ~ their ratings would be through the roof!



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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #59
114. The Propaganda Preparation for 9/11
Thanks, Catrina! Most sorry this is such a late reply...

The New Yorker did a great job of profiling O'Neill. It is an excellent read for those who give a damn about the United States and where we are heading:



THE COUNTER-TERRORIST

John O'Neill was an F.B.I. agent with an obsession: the growing threat of Al Qaeda.


by LAWRENCE WRIGHT
Issue of 2002-01-14
Posted 2002-01-14


The legend of John P. O'Neill, who lost his life at the World Trade Center on September 11th, begins with a story by Richard A. Clarke, the national cordinator for counter-terrorism in the White House from the first Bush Administration until last year. On a Sunday morning in February, 1995, Clarke went to his office to review intelligence cables that had come in over the weekend. One of the cables reported that Ramzi Yousef, the suspected mastermind behind the first World Trade Center bombing, two years earlier, had been spotted in Pakistan. Clarke immediately called the F.B.I. A man whose voice was unfamiliar to him answered the phone. "O'Neill," he growled.

"Who are you?" Clarke said.

"I'm John O'Neill," the man replied. "Who the hell are you?"

O'Neill had just been appointed chief of the F.B.I.'s counter-terrorism section, in Washington. He was forty-two years old, and had been transferred from the bureau's Chicago office. After driving all night, he had gone directly to headquarters that Sunday morning without dropping off his bags. When he heard Clarke's report about Yousef, O'Neill entered the F.B.I.'s Strategic Information Operations Center (SIOC) and telephoned Thomas Pickard, the head of the bureau's National Security Division in New York. Pickard then called Mary Jo White, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, who had indicted Yousef in the bombing case.

One of O'Neill's new responsibilities was to put together a team to bring the suspect home. It was composed of agents who were working on the case, a State Department representative, a medical doctor, a hostage-rescue team, and a fingerprint expert whose job was to make sure that the suspect was, in fact, Ramzi Yousef. Under ordinary circumstances, the host country would be asked to detain the suspect until extradition paperwork had been signed and the F.B.I. could place the man in custody. There was no time for that. Yousef was reportedly preparing to board a bus for Peshawar. Unless he was apprehended, he would soon cross the Khyber Pass into Afghanistan, where he would be out of reach. There was only one F.B.I. agent in Pakistan at the time, along with several agents from the Drug Enforcement Administration and the State Department's diplomatic-security bureau. "Our Ambassador had to get in his car and go ripping across town to get the head of the local military intelligence," Clarke recalled. "The chief gave him his own personal aides, and this ragtag bunch of American law-enforcement officials and a couple of Pakistani soldiers set off to catch Yousef before he got on the bus." O'Neill, working around the clock for the next three days, cordinated the entire effort. At 10 A.M. Pakistan time, on Tuesday, February 7th, SIOC was informed that the World Trade Center bomber was in custody.

During the next six years, O'Neill became the bureau's most committed tracker of Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda network of terrorists as they struck against American interests around the world. Brash, ambitious, often full of himself, O'Neill had a confrontational personality that brought him powerful enemies. Even so, he was too valuable to ignore. He was the point man in the investigation of the terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia, East Africa, and Yemen. At a time when the Clinton Administration was struggling to decide how to respond to the terrorist threat, O'Neill, along with others in the F.B.I. and the C.I.A., realized that Al Qaeda was relentless and resourceful and that its ultimate target was America itself. In the last days of his life, after he had taken a new job as the chief of security for the World Trade Center, he was warning friends, "We're due."

CONTINUED...

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?020114fa_FACT1



Thanks for bringing up a most important article from GlobalResearch.ca, Catrina. While I don't understand everything they posit, or agree with all their conclusions, I have to write that the organization has played the game straight, from the beginning. Your article is an excellent overview for both, those new to the subject and those who like to learn the details:



The mystery surrounding the death of John O'Neill:

The Propaganda Preparation for 9/11


by Chaim Kupferberg

EXCERPT...

While solidly implicating bin Laden the day after 9/11, Atwan was also the media's "go-to" guy back in 1998 when he informed us, after President Clinton bombed tool sheds in Afghanistan, that bin Laden issued this threat against the United States: "The battle has not started yet. The response will be with action and not words." In the same article (which I took from Nando Times), ABC News is the source for an additional threat called in by Ayman al-Zawahiri, a senior bin Laden aide: "The war has just started. The Americans should wait for the answer." Only a few months before that, ABC had conducted its televised interview of bin Laden. By the summer of 1998, primed by Atwan, ABC NEWS, and a surprisingly small clique of well-worn sources, we had come to know bin Laden as America's latest "Saddam", "Qaddafi", "Noriega" - take your pick and set your bomb sites.

By October 2000, when the U.S.S. Cole was bombed in Yemen, in case there was any doubt, Atwan offered Reuters his helpful analysis with regards to the source of blame: "I do not rule out that this was undertaken by Osama bin Laden. Yemeni groups don't have the experience to carry out this kind of operation." Atwan informed Reuters that bin Laden "was unlikely to claim direct responsibility for Thursday's attack for fear of U.S. reprisals." One can imagine, then, that Atwan gave his trusting phone mate cause for many a sleepless night. With friends like these...

Leading up to 9/11, by the Spring of 2001, an incriminating wedding videotape, apparently implicating bin Laden in the Yemen bombing, was circulating around the Middle East after being broadcast on the ubiquitous al-Jazeera television station (reconstituted from the BBC TV Arabic Service - more on them later). In the video, bin Laden, according to the Saudi-owned al-Hayat newspaper (more on them later, too), recited a poem celebrating the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole (shades of deja vu here?) This from the ABCNEWS.com site dated March 1: "Al-Hayat, which carried a photo of bin Laden and his son at the wedding, said its correspondent was the only journalist at the ceremony, also attended by bin Laden's mother, two brothers and sister who flew to Kandahar from Saudi Arabia."

And yes, here, too, Atwan offers his thoughtful review of the bin Laden video, courtesy of PTI, datelined London June 22, 2001: " said the video was proof that the fugitive Saudi millionaire was fit, well equipped and confident enough to send out a call to arms." Why this sudden need for proof? According to Atwan in the same article: "There have been rumours that is ill and that he is being contained by the Taliban in Afghanistan. It is quite clear from the film that he is in good health to the point where he can fire a rifle, and is free to operate as he chooses." In other words, limber enough for his starring role in the months ahead.

So who is Abdel Bari Atwan and why is he anxious to tell us so much? According to the Winter 1999 issue of INEAS (Institute of Near Eastern and African Studies), Abdel Bari Atwan, a Palestinian, was born in a refugee camp in the Gaza Strip in 1950. Educated at the American University of Cairo, Atwan moved to Saudi Arabia and worked as a writer for the al-Madina newspaper. In 1978, he moved to London, where he became a correspondent for the Saudi-owned Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper. In 1988, after shuffling around between Saudi-owned papers, Atwan was offered a position as editor of al-Quds al-Arabi. By his account, he was offered a position as the executive editor of the Saudi-owned al-Hayat (of the bin Laden wedding video coup), yet turned it down to produce a more independent newspaper as a challenge to the "empires" of the Saudi-dominated dailies.

CONTINUED...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP206A.html



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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
63. Thanks Octafish! Excellent as always! Bookmarking for later read!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #63
115. Moussaoui Jurors Ask Judge to Define 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'
You're welcome, lonestarnot!

Here's the latest:



Moussaoui Jurors Ask Judge to Define 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'

By William Branigin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, March 30, 2006; 3:54 PM

Jurors asked the judge in the death penalty trial of Zacarias Moussaoui today to define the term "weapons of mass destruction" and were told it includes airplanes used as missiles.

The federal jury's request for clarification from U.S. District Judge Leonie M. Brinkema came as it began its first full day of deliberations aimed at determining whether the avowed al-Qaeda member is subject to capital punishment for his admitted role in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist plot.

After Brinkema explained that airplanes could be considered weapons of mass destruction when used as missiles -- as were the airliners that were hijacked and flown into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon in the Sept. 11 attacks -- the jurors resumed their deliberations.

The point is potentially crucial because conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction is one of three federal counts against Moussaoui that carry the death penalty. Moussaoui pleaded guilty to those counts and three others in April 2005.

The jury of nine men and three women began deliberating late yesterday after 10 days of testimony culminating in closing arguments by the prosecution and defense. The jurors are charged with deciding whether Moussaoui, 37, a French citizen of Moroccan origin, is eligible for the death penalty for his role in the al-Qaeda plot to carry out the Sept. 11 attacks. If they conclude that execution applies, they will reconvene for a second phase of the penalty trial to determine whether to actually impose capital punishment or give Moussaoui a life prison sentence with no parole. The second phase would provide an opportunity for people injured on Sept. 11 and the families of those who died to testify about the impact of the attacks.

CONTINUED...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/30/AR2006033000970.html



Too bad no federal jury has asked a judge about Bush's knowledge of weapons of mass destruction.

That day can't get here fast enough.
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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. Octafish-did you see this thread?
What do you make of this?? I just clicked on the second link in this post,and guess who else was wearing a stun belt in court?

(snip) Last week accused sniper John Allen Muhammad raised a point of legal procedure and received a shocking response -- literally. Muhammad objected to a medical test that had not been ordered by the court or discussed with his attorney. In response to his refusal to cooperate, the guards activated a stun belt that sent a powerful electrical charge through his body.


< http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=780171&mesg_id=780171>
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #117
120. Shocking! Absolutely shocking!
Every day, I like the BFEE less and less.



Stunning Zacarias Moussaoui into Submission?

by Kurt Nimmo
Tuesday March 28th 2006, 9:28 am

NBC news reporter Pete Williams speculates that the feds have rigged a defiant Zacarias Moussaoui with a stun belt, an electro-shock device, apparently part of a growing shock technology arsenal used by torturers in South Africa, China, and Lebanon. Amnesty International is extremely concerned about the introduction by the prison authorities in the United States of America of a remote controlled electro-shock stun belt for use on prisoners in chain gangs, judicial hearings and transportation, the human rights organization declared in 1996. Officers can use it to psychologically threaten a prisoner, and it appears designed to humiliate and degrade a prisoner Data from other electro-shock weapons indicate that the high pulse 50,000 volt shocks lasting eight seconds at a time could result in longer term physical and mental injuries.

Is it possible Moussaoui is now admitting he was involved in a plot to crash an airliner into the White House with the shoe bomber mental case Richard Reid in a Pavlovian response to 50,000 volts of electricity? If the feds are using electro-shock against the alleged wanna-be al-Qaeda operative, is it possible they are also drugging him? Aicha el-Wafi, Moussaouis mother, believes her son must have been drugged when she saw him in court, according to Yahoo News. That is not Zachary, she declared.

It should be remembered that Moussaoui previously denied any involvement in the nine eleven attacks and his sudden if not electrifying (pun intended) eleventh hour conversion during the penalty phase of his trial is highly suspicious. Moreover, according to nine eleven mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed (supposedly in custody), Moussaoui was to take part in a second wave of attacks and was not part of the September 11, 2001, attack. Of course, this contradiction is not worth consideration, either by the jury or the corporate news media. It appears the patsy Zacarias Moussaoui is indeed a dead man walkingwith a little help from a 50,000 volt shock belt.

Addendum

As an example of Moussaouis precarious mental state, Daniel McGrory, billed as a Times Online al-Qaeda expert, cites several examples of his unusual behavior. Asked why he signed a guilty plea as the twentieth hijacker, Moussaoui smirked and said: Because everybody used to refer to me as the 20th hijacker and it was a bit of fun, McGrory writes. Prosecutors have no interest in demolishing Moussaouis extraordinary confession as the self- proclaimed al-Qaeda terrorist seems to have done their job for them. It does not appear to matter to them that Moussaouis testimony contradicts their own evidence.

It appears Moussaoui made things up as he went along. Defense lawyers argue he has repeatedly changed his story about his supposed role in a deliberate attempt to confuse US authorities. First he claimed he was to be used in a plot to free a blind Egyptian cleric, Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, jailed in the US in 1996 for an earlier attempt to blow up the World Trade Centre. Moussaoui told how he was to pilot a plane carrying the freed sheikh to Afghanistan. Then he changed his mind and said that he was to take part in a second wave of aerial attacks in the US. He did not give a date, but claimed he was to crash his aircraft into the White House.

CONTINUED...

http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=304



Thanks for the heads-up, JennasLiver. That information is stunning.



Remember America?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
64. Stickdog's related thread you should see
Edited on Mon Mar-27-06 10:18 AM by leveymg
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. reading that thread now; thanks.....Hicks is running for office, yes?
did I hear/read that somewhere?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #64
116. Thanks, leveymg. I gave it a kick immediately...
...and a comment when time permitted.

The stuff there from Hicks and Glass is astonishing.
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
69. Mr. Samit, Ms Rowling, and the author of Phx Memo had in their
Edited on Mon Mar-27-06 01:55 PM by madmark
hands the raw material to roll this thing up and prevent it; the layer above them sat on that raw material; the next layer above was not competent enough to ensure that such data would not be sat on by the middle levels; and the top layer, Bush and Condi, are fucking lightweights and idiots and we know what they did (not a fucking thing). Its about incompetent people doing incompetent jobs in critical posts; and creating a new leviathan bureacracy with a nazi name, Department of Homeland Security, or reelecting the incompentent executive, doesn't do a damn thing to fix the problem.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #69
118. People don't screw up that bad and get promoted. They're being rewarded.
These turds had evidence that suspected terrorists were taking flight training at U.S. aviation schools.

The did nothing to stop the attacks.

Why? I don't know.

I do know that a free nation would demand they be brought to Justice.



The cutting edge of the U.S. Government's pre-September 11 "do nothing policy" in regards to Al Qaeda terrorists.

The FBI's Radical Fundamentalist Unit in Washington D.C.


by Steve Moore
Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG), Centre de recherche sur la mondialisation (CRM), globalresearch.ca , 18 August/ aot 2002

EXCERPT...

Special Agent Dave Frasca occupies a very important position mid-way between the Bush cabinet/FBI leadership and the FBI agents on the ground in various American cities. He is in the unusual position of taking important findings of intended radical Bin Laden-type terrorist actions to his supervisors, especially the heads of the FBI. Clearly, he was, along with the various world intelligence agencies, able to forward enough information through his supervisors to raise concerns with President Bush himself in July 2001.

FBI agent Kenneth Williams wrote the famous Phoenix memo on July 10, 2002 warning that Osama Bin Laden's foot soldiers might be training in American flight schools. Special Agent Dave Frasca, as the Head of the Radical Fundamentalist Unit in Washington D.C., received the memo. Kenneth Williams was the most senior member of a joint terrorist task force and according to Ronald Myers, a 31 year FBI veteran and William's former colleague, told the Los Angeles Times "He is one of the strongest agents I have ever met. Anyone in FBI management who wouldn't take what Williams said seriously is a fool." Dave Frasca got the memo but he is no "fool" as we shall see. (cnn.com, May20, 2002) Williams specifically recommended a nation-wide survey of Arab-American students attending flight schools. Unlike 1995, the FBI did not descent on flight schools as recommended by Senior Agent Kenneth Williams. Williams also recommended his memo be shared with other local FBI agents. It never was. The official view is that, unlike 1995, there were not enough agents available for the flight school survey. (Remember the cutbacks and refusals by cabinet members mentioned earlier)

Robert Mueller even refused to turn over the William's memo to Arlen Specter, a veteran Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee. It remains "classified." (cnn.com, May 20, 2002) Both Ashcroft and Mueller claim to not know of the memo until after September 11.

SNIP...

Back to Dave Frasca, the head of the FBI's Radical Fundamentalist Unit. Here we have a classic case of a highly placed intelligence agent stonewalling for his paymasters. Frasca even suggested that the French Intelligence Reports were "worthless" because they only identified Zacarias Moussaoui by name and he didn't know how many people existed with that name in France. A Minneapolis agent phoned the FBI's legal attache in France who found only one Zacarias Moussaoui in the entire Paris phone directory (Rowley Report, p. 8) Rowley writes further that "we were prevented from even attempting to question Moussaoui on the day of the attacks, when in theory, he could have possessed further information about other co-conspirators." (Rowley Report, p. 9) According to Newsweek June 3, 2002, p. 22) "Moussaoui's computer, searched after September 11, revealed information about crop-dusting and large jets and his belongings included the phone number of lead hijacker Mohamed Atta's roommate."

So now the Bush Administration claims Moussaoui is the 20th hijacker. Yet Special Agent Dave Frasca who downplayed all reports of impending terrorist plots (the Phoenix Memo, French Intelligence Reports, the Moussaoui case, etc.) gets to maintain his highly placed position as does his unit Chief Superior. Furthermore, those FBI leaders who did the most stonewalling occupied "critical positions in the FBI SIOC Command Center post September 11." Rowley is particularly upset that Dave Frasca "actually received a promotion some months afterwards." (Rowley Report p. 5)

FBI agents don't get promoted for screwing up; they get promoted for a job well done. The key areas for further research are connecting the dots in the chain of command from Dave Frasca to his Unit Chief to the Director of the FBI to John Ashcroft, the Attorney General and President George Bush.


CONTINUED...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MOO208B.html



Things haven't been right in this country since 21 November 1963.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
70. Breaking: Moussaoui tells all!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. did you see Loose Change?
I still have trouble with lots in that movie, but the thing that really gets me is what happened to the huge titanium-laden engines of the plane that hit the Pentagon, not to mention the size of the hole, and apparently complete lack of debris

what's the deal with THAT?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. thanks! never even heard of that one.....now: what about
the people on the planes? WTF happened to them?

does it go that far?

I really hate to even start considering any of this; been avoiding it
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #70
83. Going for White House? No wonder Bush went on month's vacation.
The little turd from Crawford knew something was up and he wanted to have no part of the receiving end of things.

From today's NYT:



Moussaoui Says He Was Part of Plot to Attack White House

By DAVID STOUT
NYT March 27, 2006

ALEXANDRIA, Va., March 27 Zacarias Moussaoui testified in Federal District Court here today that he knew of Al Qaeda's plans to fly jetliners into the World Trade Center and that he was to have piloted an airliner into the White House on Sept. 11, 2001.

Taking the stand before the jury that will determine whether he is put to death or spends the rest of his life in prison, Mr. Moussaoui related in calm, measured language that he was to have been accompanied on his death-dive into the White House by Richard C. Reid, the so-called shoe bomber, among others.

But when asked by his lawyer, Gerald T. Zerkin, about what role he had in planning the attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people, Mr. Moussaoui said, "It's difficult to say for sure what exactly my input was."

SNIP...

Intelligence officials have long thought that Mr. Moussaoui was in some way going to be involved in an aerial attack, but have never had a clear sense of exactly what his role was to be.

Captured Al Qaeda detainees, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Omar, also known as Ramsi Binalshibh, have portrayed Mr. Moussaoui as a relatively minor figure and said that while there were early discussions of a broader attack, the final plan for Sept. 11 was scaled back to involve only the four planes.

CONTINUED...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/27/politics/27cnd-moussaoui.html?hp&ex=1143522000&en=6c897f62dc796988&ei=5094&partner=homepage



Moussaoui didn't say anything today that changes what the FBI knew or should have known.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
71. You called it, you said it and today Moussaoui tells all!!!! eom
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #71
119. Moussaoui's ''Stunned Admission''
Hey, dogday! Didya hear that Moussaoui may have been wearing a wire?



Moussaoui's Stunned Submission

ADE - Kurt Nimmo - Is it possible Moussaoui is now admitting he was involved in a plot to crash an airliner into the White House with the shoe bomber mental case Richard Reid in a Pavlovian response to 50,000 volts of electricity? If the feds are using electro-shock against the alleged wanna-be al-Qaeda operative, is it possible they are also drugging him?


www.kurtnimmo.com

Stunning Zacarias Moussaoui into Submission?

Kurt Nimmo

Another Day in the Empire

March 28th 2006

NBC news reporter Pete Williams speculates that the feds have rigged a defiant Zacarias Moussaoui with a stun belt, an electro-shock device, apparently part of a growing shock technology arsenal used by torturers in South Africa, China, and Lebanon. Amnesty International is extremely concerned about the introduction by the prison authorities in the United States of America of a remote controlled electro-shock stun belt for use on prisoners in chain gangs, judicial hearings and transportation, the human rights organization declared in 1996. Officers can use it to psychologically threaten a prisoner, and it appears designed to humiliate and degrade a prisoner Data from other electro-shock weapons indicate that the high pulse 50,000 volt shocks lasting eight seconds at a time could result in longer term physical and mental injuries.

Is it possible Moussaoui is now admitting he was involved in a plot to crash an airliner into the White House with the shoe bomber mental case Richard Reid in a Pavlovian response to 50,000 volts of electricity? If the feds are using electro-shock against the alleged wanna-be al-Qaeda operative, is it possible they are also drugging him? Aicha el-Wafi, Moussaouis mother, believes her son must have been drugged when she saw him in court, according to Yahoo News. That is not Zachary, she declared.

It should be remembered that Moussaoui previously denied any involvement in the nine eleven attacks and his sudden if not electrifying (pun intended) eleventh hour conversion during the penalty phase of his trial is highly suspicious. Moreover, according to nine eleven mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed (supposedly in custody), Moussaoui was to take part in a second wave of attacks and was not part of the September 11, 2001, attack. Of course, this contradiction is not worth consideration, either by the jury or the corporate news media. It appears the patsy Zacarias Moussaoui is indeed a dead man walkingwith a little help from a 50,000 volt shock belt.

Addendum

As an example of Moussaouis precarious mental state, Daniel McGrory, billed as a Times Online al-Qaeda expert, cites several examples of his unusual behavior. Asked why he signed a guilty plea as the twentieth hijacker, Moussaoui smirked and said: Because everybody used to refer to me as the 20th hijacker and it was a bit of fun, McGrory writes. Prosecutors have no interest in demolishing Moussaouis extraordinary confession as the self- proclaimed al-Qaeda terrorist seems to have done their job for them. It does not appear to matter to them that Moussaouis testimony contradicts their own evidence.

CONTINUED...

http://www.pej.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=4434&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0





Shocking. Absolutely shocking.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
78. Security honcho Condi expected a "traditional hijacking" so the Aug. 6
Edited on Mon Mar-27-06 03:15 PM by oasis
presidential daily briefing: "Bin Ladin Determined to Attack inside U.S." got minimal consideration. Could it be NSA/Condi thought that as long as a terrorist employed the "traditional" hijacking method, it wasn't worth making a fuss about?
:wow:
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Since she knew it was going to happen.......................
except that she denied it
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. Richard Clarke, in "Against All Enemies", implies that Condi wasn't
all that attentive to the threat. Clarke uses the description of "my hair was on fire" in which he tried to get her to focus on the problem.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. she knew
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #80
88. Cover story. Not all that you hear from Clarke is the truth....
...he performed the role of a "limited hang-out" and diversionary tactic.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #88
92. Clarke exposed Condi's incompetence. It's helpful to chip away at Bush's
armor. I never took Clarke to be the long ball hitter that we need.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #88
106. have to agree, to a certain extent, but can you give specifics?
I remember his seeming BS story about the binLaden family's getting out of the country, and how it contradicted his earlier statements.

he seemed to be covering for the FBI guy, IIRC....Waldon/Waldron?

and that CIA guy Scheuer, was it (wrote an anonymous book, later unmasked himself), REALLY thinks Clarke was an impediment in going after OBL
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #78
121. How come Brian Williams never mentions Project BOJINKA?
That's the 1995 Al Qaeda plot to hijack a dozen jumbojets over the Pacific and crash them into buildings along the United States Pacific coast. It was uncovered by Philippine police, thankfully.



Defense Intelligence Agency Refuses to Declassify Info on Project Bojinka

>>> I (The good folks at TheMemoryHole.org) sent the National Security Agency a Freedom of Information Act request asking for files on Project Bojinka. (Bojinka was the plot by radical Islamistsled by WTC-bomber Ramzi Yousefto 1) blow up a dozen US passenger jets in mid-flight, 2) assassinate President Clinton and the Pope, and 3) ram hijacked passenger planes into US landmarks, including the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, the White House, CIA Headquarters, and the Sears Tower.) The plot was discovered in 1995 when authorities in the Philippines raided Yousef's apartment.

The NSA said that it would cost me thousands of dollars for them to search for Bojinka documents, then screen them for possible release. Even if they decided that not a single document was releasable, I'd still have to pay the outlandish fees.

One of the Bojinka documents that the NSA had in its possession was created by the Defense Intelligence Agency, so the NSA asked the DIA to review it for release. Below is the DIA's reply.

You, citizen, are not allowed to know anything about the proto-9/11 plot called Operation Bojinka.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/dia-bojinka.htm





Condi sure seems to know so little about national security. She sure knows her oil tankers, though.

Sorry to preach what's old news and sorry history your way, oasis. Really appreciate that you really do give a damn.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 02:57 AM
Response to Original message
93. And what's more, all of these f***ers were promoted!
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #93
104. They've been promoting themselves
their corrupt cronies and card-carrying Nazis since Dulles and OSS. We're talking a 60 YEAR timeline here, kids.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #104
122. Isn't it odd how little interest there is in history?
Could that be intentional? You know: keep everybody focused on today, the new, the cool, the buzz, the fashionable, the news, the sideshow -- all the while the chains are wrapped around their ankles and throats. To those who live only in the now, 60 years is forever. In reality, that is just the blink of an eye. And what a moment, the beginnings of the Amerikan national War Party turds.

I know you do, Karenina, but how many remember Project BOJINKA?



CIA, FBI Knew Since 1995 About Possible Hijack Scheme

With a massive amount of information about planned terrorist attacks in hand, how could the government be caught by surprise on Sept. 11.


Exclusive to American Free Press

By Christopher Bollyn

The CIA and FBI have knownsince 1995about the terrorist plan to use civilian aircraft to attack the World Trade Center - and the headquarters of the CIA.

The detailed plans to hijack a large number of American commercial passenger planes simultaneously and explode them in mid-flight or crash them into predetermined targets such as the World Trade Center have been well known by western intelligence agencies since 1995, according to Die Welt, the Hamburg-based (Germany) newspaper of December 7.

The terrorist scenario that unfolded on September 11 was neither new nor unexpected - and the American intelligence agencies, both the CIA and the FBI, have known of the plan to execute such an act for more than six years, Die Welt said.

PROJECT BOJINKA

The airline terror plan, code named "Project Bojinka" was first discovered in January 1995 during a police search of a Manila apartment in which a suspicious fire had occurred near the route Pope John Paul II was to take just days before his visit to the Philippines.

SNIP...

The three terrorists who had occupied the apartment, Ramsi Ahmed Yousef, Abdul Hakim Murad, and Wali Khan Amin Shah, were allegedly affiliated with the network of Osama bin Laden. All three had attended pilot training schools in the Philippines.

CONTINUED...

http://www.americanfreepress.net/Mideast/CIAKnew.htm



This isn't saying Bush knew. This is just saying those who control Bush knew.

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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
99. MSM is starting to sound like DU... First Boy in the Bubble, cartoon of
Bush on Newsweek, AOL last week asking if Bush was "Worst President Ever" with wild, funny photo of exasperated bush thowing his hands up at news conference (with caption, Bush is obviously ready for your questions) and now CNN with 3 (THREE) nites of coverage of Charlie Sheen's doubts about the official 911 story with a poll that showed 84% of respondents believe that govt covered up the real 911 facts. My ltr to CNN:

Thank you for spending so much time on Charlie Sheen's courageous questioning of the bush regime's complicity in 911. There are over 100,000 websites worldwide dedicated to finding out the truth about 911 and your poll showing that 84% of CNN repondents question the government's cover-up of 911 facts.

We need much more information on the mainstream media and the basic facts of suspicious incidents in the 911 cover story should be given to the American public without internet access or who do not know about the 911 truth movement. There are obviously many Americans hungry for the truth as shown by your poll and the well known Zogby poll showing that 50% of New Yorkers do not believe the official version.

I would like to thank you again for highlight Charlie Sheen's speaking the truth about the cover-up of 911 leading to the murder of well over the official number of 2,000 US soldiers and the torture and genocidal murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Arabs
====
"Idol" vs. Iraq: Do you pay more attention to "American Idol" than the war in Iraq?

Yes 38% 2611 votes

No 62% 4316 votes

Total: 6927 votes

http://edition.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/showbiz.tonight/
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #99
123. BOJINKA: Bust and Boom
Here's more evidence:



Bust and Boom

Six years before the September 11 attacks, Philippine police took down an al Qaeda cell that had been plotting, among other things, to fly explosives-laden planes into the Pentagon


By Matthew Brzezinski
Washington Post Magazine
Sunday, December 30, 2001; Page W09

It was already evening, here on the other side of the international date line, when the first plane struck the North Tower of the World Trade Center. Aida Fariscal had gone to bed early on September 11, only to be awakened by a frantic colleague. "Quick," he instructed, "turn on your television."

The footage of the hijacked airliner bursting into flame made Fariscal bolt upright. "Oh my God," she gasped. "Bojinka."

For the retired Philippine policewoman, that word and the nightmare scenario it evoked had receded into distant memory these past six years. Sometimes weeks went by without her even thinking about the terrorist plot she had foiled so long ago. But there it was, after all this time, unfolding live on her small-screen television. "I thought, at first," she tells me, "that I was having a bad dream, or that I was watching a movie." But as the burning towers came crashing down under their own weight, disbelief turned to anger. "I still don't understand," she says over a club sandwich, "how it could have been allowed to happen."

We are having lunch at a chicken rotisserie in a busy Manila shopping center, not far from the Dona Josefa Apartments, where it all started, where she -- and the CIA and the FBI -- first heard the words "Operation Bojinka." Fariscal has insisted on a corner table, so she can keep an eye on the other patrons and the shoppers beyond the restaurant's greasy glass partition. Old habits, she explains, die hard, and, after a life of fighting crime, she always takes security precautions, especially now that she is off the force, a widowed grandmother living off a police pension in a small one-bedroom apartment. Her brother, in fact, is supposed to swing by the rotisserie -- just to make sure I am who I say I am.

As we speak, she seems bitter, and surprisingly fragile in her hoop earrings and bright pink lipstick. She is bitter that the generals in the Philippine high command hogged all the credit for Bojinka, while all she received was $700 and a free trip to Taiwan. She is bitter that the Americans apparently didn't take the foiled plot seriously enough. But most of all, she is angry that, in the end, her hunch didn't save thousands of lives after all. "I can't get those images," she says of the World Trade Center wreckage, "out of my mind."

CONTINUED...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A14725-2001Dec21



This is stuff that the State Department or CIA now keeps secret.



Why do you suppose that is, huh Unka Dick?

BTW: That's one helluva sig line you got there, Trevelyan. Norm hit a home run with that statement on history.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
102. tea time kick
or is it tee time?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #102
124. Like Moussaoui case, we'd never know of BOJINKA if not for lucky cop.
The FBI would never have brought in Moussaoui, were it not for Democratic Congressmen Oberstar and Sabo in Washington in response to pleadings from Minneapolis flight school instructors.

In BOJINKA, a Philippine police woman heard an explosion and found suspicious activity in an apartment. She went in and busted an Al Qaeda cell and found laptops loaded with information about hijackiing 11 jumbo jets over th Pacific and crashing them into targets along the West Coast. Otherwise, they might never have been busted.

Tee time for the BFEE:





Did Bush Know?

Warning Signs of 9-11 and Intelligence Failures


by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed
MediaMatters

EXCERPT...

Post-Bojinka Intelligence Gathering

And indeed, the surveillance of flight schools is exactly what subsequently occurred, indicating that the threat posed by Project Bojinka was not dismissedrather, it was taken seriously and used as the basis for intensive intelligence gathering. As Garcia testifies, in meetings with certain U.S. authorities they have confirmed to me that indeed, many things were done in response to the findings of Project Bojinka.<13> The Washington Post, noting the plans outlined in Project Bojinka, reported that: Since 1996, the FBI had been developing evidence that international terrorists were using flight schools to learn to fly jumbo jets. This evidence began to accumulate shortly after the FBI learned of Project Bojinka. A foiled plot in Manila to blow up U.S. airliners and later court testimony by an associate of bin Laden had touched off FBI inquiries at several schools, officials say.<14> It should be noted that this report indicates that Al-Qaedas plans for Project Bojinka were considered by U.S. intelligence to be a credible threat, and thus touched off further investigations.

Early in the same year, U.S. officials had identified crop-dusters and suicide flights as potential terrorist weapons. Elaborate steps were adopted to prevent an attack from the air during the Summer Olympic Games in Atlanta. U.S. aircraft were deployed to intercept suspicious aircraft in the skies over Olympic venues, while agents monitored crop-duster flights within hundreds of miles of downtown Atlanta. According to Woody Johnson, head of the FBIs Atlanta office at the time, law enforcement agents fanned out to regional airports throughout northern Georgia to make sure nobody hijacked a small aircraft and tried to attack one of the venues. From 6th July to 11th August, when the Games ended, the FAA had banned all aviation within a one-mile radius of the Olympic Village where athletes were resident. Aircraft were also ordered to stay at least three miles away from other sites, beginning three hours before each event until three hours after each event ended.<15> These extensive measures in 1996, in response to the general threat of a possible terrorist attack, should be duly notedthere is a stark contrast between these measures and the almost total lack of preventive measures in response to warnings of the 11th September attacks.

By 1999, the Federal Aviation Administrations annual report on Criminal Acts Against Aviation noted the threat posed by binLaden, recalling that a radical Muslim leader living in British exile had warned in August 1998 that binLaden would bring down an airliner, or hijack an airliner to humiliate the United States. The 2000 edition of the annual report, published early in 2001, reiterated concerns that although bin Laden is not known to have attacked civil aviation, he has both the motivation and the wherewithal to do so Bin Ladens anti-Western and anti-American attitudes make him and his followers a significant threat to civil aviation, particularly to U.S. civil aviation.<16>

Meanwhile, the surveillance of Al-Qaeda operatives on U.S. soil continued. Between 2000 and 2001, the CIAhad made the FBI aware of the names of about 100 suspected members of bin Ladens terrorist network thought to be headed to, or already in, the United States. A 23rd August 2001 cable specifically referred to Khalid Al-Midhar and Nawaq Alhazmi, who were allegedly aboard the hijacked airplane that crashed into the Pentagon.<17>

CONTINUED...

http://www.mediamonitors.net/mosaddeq36.html



Who could imagine using hijackings in the unconventional sense, eh Condi?
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #124
125. A huge 'thank you' to Ms Bojinka.
:patriot:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #125
126. Aida D. Fariscal
Discovery and Termination of Oplan Bojinka

All times mentioned are in Manila, Philippines time.

The plot was abandoned after an apartment fire occurred during the night in Manila, Philippines on Friday, January 6, 1995.

The fire occurred before the Pope, John Paul II, was scheduled to visit the Philippines on January 12. Also, a typhoon had hit Manila not that long ago before the fire. The incident took place at the six-story Doa Josefa apartments.

Initially, the story told by Philippine authorities was that the fire was started when Abdul Hakim Murad started a chemical fire in the kitchen sink in Suite 603 in the 6th floor of the Doa Josefa apartment by pouring water on a substance. The smoke came when water was poured on to douse the fire. The fire was spotted at about 11 P.M. after residents complained about an odor. Edith Guerrera, the owner of the apartments, called the fire brigade, but the fire went out unassisted. Yousef and Murad had told the firefighters to stay away, before they fled. <3> Police, including 55-year old watch commander Aida D. Fariscal, who decided to investigate the situation, first found four hot plates in their packing crates, what looked like cotton batting soaked in a beige solution, and loops of green, red, blue, and yellow electrical wiring. The telephone rang, and the police ran downstairs thinking that it was a trap. <6> They left the apartment to seek a search warrant. Fariscal had been suspicious of the men in room 603 due to a chain of bombings that happened in the Philippines prior to January 6.

According to police records, the policemen had to ask eleven judges before they found one that would sign the search warrant. <9>

SOURCE w LOTS o' Links 'n' 'Fo...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bojinka

Thanks, Watch Commander Fariscal!
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #126
127. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I remember it, but no details like tha
It made me think of the woman at the dock in Port Angeles, WA checking vehicles coming into the states from Canada. She smelled something wrong when Ahmed Rassam pulled up and had the nerve to do something about it. Nitroglycerine was discovered and she probably saved many people at LAX.
I think everyday peple would do a much more beneficial job of running this country.
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